Train Services Halted As Strike Against Privatisation Starts

[Collie]

Privatisation of government run institutions is needed to increase their efficiency.

Typical relgious neocon bullshit.

I can show you as many examples where this is wrong as you can show me that this is correct.

I reckon he would be hard pressed to show many. Just look at public/private "partnerships" , what a disaster, costs far more yet the figures are massaged to make it look cheaper to build a new hospital for example rather than fix the old one. Wonder who makes all the money there.....hmmmmmm

[toret]

Hang on, are they considering going fullly private or just allowing private companies to get into the industry?

Who cares? It's still gonna be run by the same people. Only difference is any surplus is gonna line their own pockets instead of their employers pockets.

If you get my drift.

[barrysandal]

You know that the rates will double for sure. Last year they privatied the water in Chiang Mai. The rates nearly doubled and everything else stayed the same except that the profits went to a supporter of that guy who owns the British football team and all of the employees got a 30% raise as hush money. May become cheaper to fly, jus tlike in the USA.

[roego]

I do not know the pros and cons but the railway deserves a good shake up. Yes only one train a day to Pattaya, and it leaves at sun up and only one class ,third, with seats that often collapse.

I often use the Bangkok -Hua hin link and get the first class sleeper. Often doors do not lock, lights do not work, air con is freezing, don,t ask the car conductor for help as he says too bad. And the toilets always leave something to be desired.

My last trip to Golok, I was told definitely going ll the way, but during the night, I kept thinking it was going very slow, at 8am still going all the way but at noon finishing at Yala. Arrangements for passengers.NONE. REFUND NONE> ANSWER TO EMAILS NONE.

you cannot reserve unless you actually go to the station.

Someone should certainly use a cattle prod to liven someone up.

And the toilets at HUA Hn station, cattle would not use.

[TAWP]

So many socialists on this site...

Privatization, when done right, will always beat a government run operation in efficiency.

The problem with the trains in the UK is just lessons on how not to do it.

And the railway in itself could, as it was built by the government, still be owned by them and each user pays a fee - much like car owners pay road tax. Having several shipping-companies running their trucks, cars and boats works - there is no real reason trains cannot work too. If done right.

[sabaijai]

Re: Privatising Railways. Anybody thinking that the private sector can run railways anywhere is just plain daft! All the countries where privatisation of railways is a fact, the effect is nearly everywhere the same: Less real service, higher prices, more expensive for the tax payer, less trains or less routes, big payments to the new managers, laying off staff resulting in less trains, hiring managers without any understanding of running trains, less safety, more accidents, want any more?

I can give you facts and figures enough, why? I was one of the hatchetman from NS (Dutch Railways)

Examples: Britain, the Netherlands, Sweden. Germany.

Tell me also why in so many countries the privatisation is stopped or reconsideration of the plans to privatise?

Add to the list Amtrak in the USA.

[toret]

So many socialists on this site...

Privatization, when done right, will always beat a government run operation in efficiency.

Please gimme an example where priv of railways, water or anything else of the category "major infrastructure" has benefited the public as well as the new owners.

Socialist my ass.

[finnomick]

.....and just when I thought the trains couldn't go any slower, they stop altogether

Edited October 31, 2007 by finnomick

[george]

Update:

40,000 commuters stalled as strike paralyses Thai railways

BANGKOK: -- State Railway of Thailand (SRT) employees Wednesday began an unexpected strike that paralysed train services to many destinations nationwide and left thousands of angry passengers stranded over much of the country.

Forty thousand daily business commuters who rely on Thailand's debt-ridden conventional rail system to get to their places of employment through often virtually impassable Bangkok traffic -- as well as tourists and executive passengers on longer-distance commutes -- were surprised by the walkout, staged virtually without warning to the travelling public.

SRT union leaders said the rare walkout was held to protest the State Railways plan to liberalise cargo services which they believe will effect under the framework of the controversial Japan-Thailand Economic Partnership Agreement (JTEPA), the terms of which have not been fully revealed to the public.

The Thai-Japanese free trade pact, signed in Tokyo on April 3 by Prime Minister Surayud on behalf of Thailand, takes effect November 1.

Thailand's national railway workers also complained about the mismanagement of the national railway system.

Some 300 SRT workers gathered at State Railways headquarters in Bangkok and distributed fliers charging state railways top executives for mismanagement and exploiting the state enterprise, as the SRT has to burden overall losses of Bt23 billion.

Workers said they have gone on strike also to protest amendment of the SRT Act allowing the private sector to run goods transport, in effect renting state property to enable private interests to compete against the functionally bankrupt state-run corporation and the jobs currently being filled by SRT employees.

SRT Labour Union chairman Riengsak Khangkan said the union would be on strike indefinitely.

Prime Minister Gen. Surayud Chulanond said he had assigned Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um to head the team to solve the short-term problem to ease the problem of train passengers unable to proceed to their destinations.

He also said that the JTEPA which had already signed would not affect the SRT and if the SRT Labour Union called for the amendment of the SRT Act, the prime minister said it was negotiable.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Ministry and Ministry of Foreign Affairs echoed the Premier's comment that JTEPA was not involved with transport liberalisation, and Mr. Sansern said he had ordered the SRT board to urgently address the problem.

He said the government's plan would not affect the welfare and rights of SRT employees, nor was it about the privatisation of the national railway system.

SRT acting governor Bancha Kongnakorn apologised to the public for the inconvenience being experienced by passengers.

Mr. Nancha said SRT management is urgently negotiating with the SRT labour union.

According to Mr. Bancha, 110 engineers (train drivers) and 104 technicians -- or about 10 per cent -- have joined the strike, affecting many train service routes.

--TNA 2007-10-31

[Johpa]

Privatisation of government run institutions is needed to increase their efficiency.

Unfortunately it is not unusual for the employees to resist, as they see their

current (possibly cushy) life threatened.

In reality the increased efficiency can result in higher revenues and hence higher rewards for all.

Thailand is just starting down a path that those in the West have already trodden.

Balderdash! Don't suck up that myth that private enterprise is always more efficient. There are efficient private enterprises and there are inefficient private enterprises. There are efficient public enterprises and there are inefficient public enterprises. And although there might be higher revenues as the need for private profit becomes a factor, often at the expense of the worker, those increased rewards are reserved for those few at the top. Money only percolates upward, it never trickles down. Plumbers know what always flows downhill.

And can someone show me where these SRT workers have "cushy" lives? Or does that mean they actually have secure lower middle class jobs that need to be eliminated for more efficiency?

[ratcatcher]

Privatisation of government run institutions is needed to increase their efficiency.

Unfortunately it is not unusual for the employees to resist, as they see their

current (possibly cushy) life threatened.

In reality the increased efficiency can result in higher revenues and hence higher rewards for all.

Thailand is just starting down a path that those in the West have already trodden.

Balderdash! Don't suck up that myth that private enterprise is always more efficient. There are efficient private enterprises and there are inefficient private enterprises. There are efficient public enterprises and there are inefficient public enterprises. And although there might be higher revenues as the need for private profit becomes a factor, often at the expense of the worker, those increased rewards are reserved for those few at the top. Money only percolates upward, it never trickles down. Plumbers know what always flows downhill.

And can someone show me where these SRT workers have "cushy" lives?Or does that mean they actually have secure lower middle class jobs that need to be eliminated for more efficiency?

The average worker at S.R.T is poorly paid and overworked (hardly a cushy life) while the fat Benz driving bureacrats at the top milk the system for all it's worth. It's the same the world over.

The average 'manager stuck in headquarters likely has no idea how the hel_l a railway really works. It's always the lower end workers who get the shaft.

Although I sympathize with the public that has been inconvenienced, these people have no other alternative but to say "Enough is enough" "The baht stops here" Maybe changes will be made.

Good luck to 'em I say.

The last thing Thailand needs is the railway in the hands of the likes of the owner of Manchester City F.C.

Edited October 31, 2007 by ratcatcher

[Johpa]

So many socialists on this site...

Privatization, when done right, will always beat a government run operation in efficiency.

The problem with the trains in the UK is just lessons on how not to do it.

And the railway in itself could, as it was built by the government, still be owned by them and each user pays a fee - much like car owners pay road tax. Having several shipping-companies running their trucks, cars and boats works - there is no real reason trains cannot work too. If done right.

So many deluded right wing neo-cons on this site.

The situation in the UK simply shows that privatization is not always efficient nor always a positive for the common wealth and common good of the society. There is nothing intrinsically more efficient in privatization vs nationalization of an enterprise, both modes have the potential to "get it right" or get it wrong.

And I always thought that the State Railways of Thailand was one of the more efficient enterprises in the Kingdom, the trains run on time, they are relatively clean, and they are affordable.

[Foggy Bottom]

Unfortunately, SRT's most profitable route is underutilised and under-provisioned

Year after year, SRT reports that the only one of their lines making a profit is the Northern Line terminating at Chiangmai. Yet there are constant complaints of insufficient seats to serve passenger demand, so much so, that it is often neccesary to buy the desired ticket 5 or 7 days ahead of travelling.

Like other posters, I like using the Railways in Thailand even though I have twice been a "victim" of derailment - once when the engine jumped the points while drifting into a station somewhere near Phitsanulok (no problem - put it in reverse and roll back onto the tracks - it worked) - another time when a derailed goods train blocked the line just north of Lopburi and friends coming up weren't quick enough onto the replacement buses and had their seats nicked by passengers from a commuter train also stuck. The friends had to return to Bangkok.

Thai trains may not be Orient Expresses, but they are comfortable, enjoyable, and affordable, though the smoking ban is a real pain and may have pushed away a portion of passengers who switched to flying on domestic "long haul".

SRT does not need privatised, but it does need managers from the private sector to move in and shake up a lot of the departments - ones who know how to recognise where extra services are needed and where they are not. Ones who can properly and transparently organise assets to convert unused holdings into reinvestment funds. Ones who know how to improve station facilities and concession-slots to serve the travelling public and not the station staff. Most of all the point-of-sale retailling of tickets needs a serious overhaul, bringing it into the 21st century in order that it provides the desired management information to make improvements to the timetables.

But all change should be carefully managed and communicated to employees - something that very few enterprises in Thailand are well known for doing. Good communication with, not to or from, but WITH employees prevents the problems experienced today. They're only human and all humans fear the unknown (to some degree or other).

[paulandmaneerat]

As an aside I can't help wondering how many visa runners have been delayed by the strike and slipped from legal to overstay through no fault of their own. It doesn't pay to leave things to the last minute where immigration matters are concerned in Thailand.

[gbswales]

Railway board chairman appeals to striking SRT workers

BANGKOK: -- State Railway of Thailand (SRT) board chairman Siva Saengmanee said he is ready to negotiate with striking workers, who are protesting against privatised cargo services.

Many southbound and northbound services have been suspended and SRT has transferred stranded passengers to their destinations by other transport, Mr. Siva said, adding that railway management will talk to the labour union to resolve the problem.

The SRT chairman called on the agency's staff to reconsider the inconvenience the union is causing to passengers and urged them to find a way out through negotiation.

State railway employees said they have gone on strike to protest the amendment of the SRT Act to allow the private sector to run goods transportation, in effect competing against the state-run corporation and the jobs currently being filled by SRT employees.

Earlier Wednesday SRT employees protested at Thung Song station in the southern province of Nakhon Si Thammarat, which led to the suspension of three Bangkok-Narathiwat trains Wednesday morning.

Late reports indicated that railway staff in the central province of Nakhon Sawan have stopped rail operations there, leaving commuters stranded at the most important railhead between Bangkok and Chiang Mai.

--TNA 2007-10-31

Maybe instead they should look at the utter mess that British Rail became after privatisation, the ever increasing fares, the late trains and bankrupt ccmpanies (remember railtrack!) Privatisation increases "efficiency" ONLY at the expense of communities, especially those in areas deemed unprofitable, as I am sure many places in Thailand would be deemed. It is an absolute nonsense to argue that a nationally owned company cannot be efficiient. All they have to do is employ the right managers and invest in the infrastructure from taxation - this way you ensure that it is the richer people who keep the railways running and affordable for the poorer people. How can a private company be by default more efficient when some of the funds must be diverted to give profit to shareholders. If management is inefficient it it is because of who they are and lack of incentives to improve.

There are in my view some things too important to place in the hands of people who do not see communities and people as the reason for their existance - transport. education, healthcare and basic communications should in my view be in the public sector where there is no requirement to make a profit - this is the only way to ensure that no one is disadvantaged by being poor.

The UK is a much wealthier country than Thailand but even here many ordinary people struggle to pay the high cost of travel to and from work. As for motivation most governments are only ever interested in TODAY so selling off national assets is seen as way of making a fast buck and making short term tax reductions to achieve popularity - tax reductions which benefit the rich more than the poor.

I am fast becoming ashamed of the world in which we live where anything is sacraficed for a profit - may as well privatise government and do away with the inefficiency of elections

[cognos]

That is sad news.In 3 times traveling to Thailand I have taken trains 8 times,and over all they are great ! Second class is good;when I took first class one time the door kept unlocking,which was little different in terms of safety than the curtains in second class.I woke up and the door was wide open.I thought my friend was out to the washroom,but she was sleeping.This happened several times in the night.One time going to Chiang Mai from BKK,there were a group of student lawyers(in various stages of drunkedness) from Holland.The next morning one was missing..he had gone outside to relieve himself at a stop in the night and somehow did not get back on.

In Canada here the trains are government and private,and all very expensive,more than taking an airplane.When I was a kid I went across canada on a train,before it became generally for the very well-off only.

[my friend I]

You know that the rates will double for sure. Last year they privatied the water in Chiang Mai. The rates nearly doubled and everything else stayed the same except that the profits went to a supporter of that guy who owns the British football team and all of the employees got a 30% raise as hush money. May become cheaper to fly, jus tlike in the USA.

They are only going to make the cargo service private, not passenger services.

[Johpa]

You know that the rates will double for sure. Last year they privatied the water in Chiang Mai. The rates nearly doubled and everything else stayed the same except that the profits went to a supporter of that guy who owns the British football team and all of the employees got a 30% raise as hush money. May become cheaper to fly, jus tlike in the USA.

They are only going to make the cargo service private, not passenger services.

But of course, privatize where it is already profitable to the public sector and then watch the passenger service struggle on its own, like Amtrak in the US. If they privatize the cargo service then it would spell the end of the passenger service in Thailand. But I am certain that is exactly what some others in the private sector want to happen.

[stevehaigh]

Privatisation of the transport industry means risky travel for passengers.

Private companies will be out for profit, meaning cutting of maintenance budget, less trains on non-profitable routes.

Just take a peek at the history of Britain’s railways since British Rail was abolished and Privatisation began. It’s an abomination of serious accidents, poor quality service, non co-operation between different rail companies, and expensive fares on popular routes.

Privatisation has no benefit for passengers.

absolutely. and look at japan's railway. that's gov't owned isn't it? it runs great, one of the best in the world. some things just don't privitize well.

[samran]

Just an observation:

Nothing wrong with private participation. Doesn't have to be a sell off, long term concessions are fine if structured properly. But there is urgent need for capital investment, newer rolling stock etc.

BTS last I looked was privately owned. And there is significant private participation with the subway.

[wolfmanjack]

You know that the rates will double for sure. Last year they privatied the water in Chiang Mai. The rates nearly doubled and everything else stayed the same except that the profits went to a supporter of that guy who owns the British football team and all of the employees got a 30% raise as hush money. May become cheaper to fly, jus tlike in the USA.

They are only going to make the cargo service private, not passenger services.

But of course, privatize where it is already profitable to the public sector and then watch the passenger service struggle on its own, like Amtrak in the US. If they privatize the cargo service then it would spell the end of the passenger service in Thailand. But I am certain that is exactly what some others in the private sector want to happen.

you are quite right. I am sure the airlines and bus companies would want the train passenger service to close. it seemed to me that when taksin was trying to privatize it was only the profitable organizations being set up to be privatized.

This is so the fat cats can get their paws on the profitable assets and leave the non profitable in the gov. Allow the transport of containers by train and that should be able to generate enough profit to subsidize the passenger service.

[sriracha john]

It's all been sorted... sort of... but anyway, the strike is over:

SRT resumes services after labour union agreed to end strike

BANGKOK – Thailand's nationwide rail services resumed early Thursday after the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) labour union agreed to end an unexpected strike as the Ministry of Transport and SRT executives agreed to consider the union demands.

After five hours of marathon talks, Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um, who witnessed the negotiations, said SRT board members and union leader Riengsak Khaengkhan assured rail workers that the promise would be honored and that union members who had joined a mass walkout should not be punished.

Mr. Sansern said the Ministry of Transport agreed on the demand of the labour union to withdraw the proposed amendment of the SRT Act for review until both sides can mutually agree.

An amendment of the SRT Act allowing the private interests to transport goods is under consideration by the Office of the Council of State.

The SRT agreed to review all cases and guarantee to union members that cargo services run by private operators must employ normally-employed SRT train conductors.

The union's demands also included demands for the investigation of Central Inter Pattana Plc's lease of land on Phahon Yothin Road, a portion of the Buri Ram station area allegedly encroached on by a politician, and the corruption-plagued Airport Rail Link project which would operate the service between Bangkok's Makasan and Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

The union accused the SRT management of trying to favour Central Inter Pattana which includes Cenral Department Store's Lad Prao Branch as part of the lease.

At Bangkok's central Hua Lumpong railway station, few passengers were waiting for trains because they were unaware that railway services have resumed.

The first train departed Hua Lumpong at 4.15am to Hua Ta-kae. SRT's public relations staff said that 70 routes would be operating on Thursday.

- MCOT

[katana]

I seem to remember that Railtrack (responsible for track, signalling, tunnels, bridges, level crossings ) in the UK was founded under legislation that privatised the railways in 1994. However it was essentially taken away from them and renationalised in 2002 due to their safety record. There were bad crashes at Southall, Ladbroke Grove, Hatfield and Potter's Bar where many died.

[Ricardo]

Privatisation of the transport industry means risky travel for passengers.

Private companies will be out for profit, meaning cutting of maintenance budget, less trains on non-profitable routes.

Just take a peek at the history of Britain’s railways since British Rail was abolished and Privatisation began. It’s an abomination of serious accidents, poor quality service, non co-operation between different rail companies, and expensive fares on popular routes.

Privatisation has no benefit for passengers.

Well, except that, since privatisation, there are now 25% more passengers using the network.

But I fully agree that the UK-privatisation in not one to copy. Little extra investment in track or trains - but lots of profit to the bankers & consultants - at the public expense.

The unanswered question is how you can introduce modern management, to a public service like this.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

Privatising the Thai Railways is the same as abolishing the Thai Railways. (Except maybe for some tourist routes a la the Eastern & Oriental Express).

What company can honestly make a profit there.. Completely impossible. And any reduction in service and I'd say it's pretty much curtains for the SRT.

There would be a HUGE investment needed to bring the SRT into the 21st century.. I just can't see it happen. Not by the government and not by any private company.

[Plus]

Much more interesting is Thai public reacon to the strike - at least in the newspaper letter columns. They all seem to think that protesting workers should be severely punished. There's this predominating attitude that workers are slaves and should not step out of their place.

It seems Thailand is readier for benevolent dictatorship than for democracy and its inherent bottom up developments.

[TAWP]

BTS last I looked was privately owned. And there is significant private participation with the subway.

Don't tell them that, now you will be labeled a neo-con...

[blaze]

Much more interesting is Thai public reacon to the strike - at least in the newspaper letter columns. They all seem to think that protesting workers should be severely punished. There's this predominating attitude that workers are slaves and should not step out of their place.

It seems Thailand is readier for benevolent dictatorship than for democracy and its inherent bottom up developments.

What are the bottom up developments 'inheirent' to benevolent dictatorships? And how do you go about getting one of them?

You don't. You cross your fingers- and hope that the next dictator will be better than the last. Even though the odds (as history shows) are stacked against you. And if he's not - tough luck. Nothing you can do about it- except bleed.

And that is why most countries gave up on that little bit of political fantasy many many years ago.

[TheEmperorOfTheNorth]

> BTS last I looked was privately owned.

An aging nationwide rail network in need of investments that are a multiple of the entire BTS network, is not the same as a mass transit system.

> Don't tell them that, now you will be labeled a neo-con...

I don't think anyone is labelling anything. I am submitting that the SRT is basically a dead man walking. The junta proposed privatising it (i.e. grabbing the profitable bits, especially some very prime real estate), but now have backtracked.

News at 11.

[lazeeboy]

You know that the rates will double for sure. Last year they privatied the water in Chiang Mai. The rates nearly doubled and everything else stayed the same except that the profits went to a supporter of that guy who owns the British football team and all of the employees got a 30% raise as hush money. May become cheaper to fly, jus tlike in the USA.

They are only going to make the cargo service private, not passenger services.

making the cargo private will increase the price of cargo ,hence more baht for your food .