The Gentleman Scamp Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 I can't imagine what state my passport would be in if I had it on me at all times, getting sat on in my back pocket and soaking up sweat - not to mention in constant danger of loss or laundry basket. I carry a photocopy in my wallet and have done for ages, my passport is kept in a locket drawer in my room. Is this ok should I ever be asked by a police officer to produce it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rod_kalashnikov Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquess Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 If I read the article correctly, one of the policemen stated that the orders had come directly from the interior minister. I doubt therefore that a normal policeman under normal circumstances would arrest one for only having a copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 There was a previous thread about this subject and a reply from a Suan Phlu officer stated that only Immi police could ask for your passport, not plod. Plod can only ask for ID and a photocopy of pport should suffice Maybe someone has a better memory than me on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billion Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 -------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProThaiExpat Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Those of you who are comfortable with instructing a police officer who has detained you that he doesn't have the authority to arrest you for not carrying your passport, go for it. I carry mine at all times, with a copy at home for use in the event I ever lose the original. Mentally, I have reviewed all the farang "modes of dress" I have seen in Thailand over the past few years, and have seen few that don't have an appropriate pocket to put a passport in. The bag around the neck is an excellent idea. That around the neck bag could easily put over the back. Money belts likewise work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 There was a previous thread about this subject and a reply from a Suan Phlu officer stated that only Immi police could ask for your passport, not plod.Plod can only ask for ID and a photocopy of pport should suffice Maybe someone has a better memory than me on this subject. It's true that Suan Phlu officer stated that only Immi police could ask for your passport, not plod. This is what I was told at Imm earlier this year. If I get it right, regular police cannot check your immigration status, i.e. your permission to stay. However, the local police have a right to detain anybody who cannot present an ID (this refers to Thai nationals) Local police as well can transfer a foreigner to the immigration police for further checking. If you do not have a Thai ID (which of course foreigners do not have) your residence cert. for PR will do. Alternatively your passport in lieu of a Thai - ID. Photocopy, preferably certified by embassy or immigration office usually will do the trick, same as Thai driving licence. Neither is, as far as I know, acceptable by law to replace an original passport. I usually do not carry my p/port to avoid too much wear, but know what can happen. Should I visit, however, some night spot, I take it along, expecting evtl. checking or raids by police. The example Q-bar shows again, you are not even save in fully licenced places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 (edited) If you have a scanner then scan the id page plus the front page and have them laminated back to back. Show that as your passport if required. Alternatively get a Thai driving licence. That is a valid form of ID for a Thai, why not for us!! Keep you passport somewhere safe!!! Note. Any policeman is entitled to ask for valid id from anyone, Thai or Farang. Edited August 17, 2004 by astral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
possom Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 not this old chestnut again . we all know the rules ; i.e supposed to carry it . personally ,mine stays at home where its safe , carting it around with me seems ridicoulous to me . i have never had a problem (so far ), when i have been asked by police to produce it , and havnt been able to ,they havnt cared (again so far ). its one of those things thats completely up to you .as scamp points out ,what sort of state would my passport be in if i took it with me every day of my life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobcat Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I researched this a while ago and found that there is no requirement that you must carry your passport on your person. The requirement is that, if required by the immigration police, you must be able to demonstrate that you are legally permitted to be here. That means, if your passport is at home, you are able to get it and take it to the immigration police and show them the relevant visa. If you are PR, you need to be able to show them your PR book. The whole thing about being required to carry your passport with you at all times is a myth. I can post the relevant laws if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logpoacher Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 If you carry your passport all the time, it's going to get pretty worn and tatty long before it expires. Last year a British friend of mine (resident in the UK) was going on holiday and needed to renew his passport. You can do this in one day if you pay a bit extra. The problem was, when he went to do this, he was told that his passport was damaged and so ineligible for the normal renewal process. He would have to make a complete application from scratch, including getting signatures from JPs, etc. And this cannot be processed in less than a week, no matter how much you pay (how unlike our own dear Thailand). Eventually, by getting his boss to write a letter saying that he was travelling on business, he did manage to get his new passport and not miss his holiday. The only "damage" to his passport was that a tiny corner of the lamination on the photo / data page had lifted. Literally, just two or three millimetres. I don't know if this rule applies in other countries, but if you're British, you need to keep that passport in pristine condition. I can't begin to imagine the hassle of trying to do a complete passport application whilst living abroad. Also, I know that one person's expeience of one incident doen't mean that someone else will be treated the same way, but for what it's worth I was stopped in the street near my flat by Immigration Police (white uniforms) backed up my Bangkok Met (brown) during the pre-APEC clampdown, and they were perfectly satisfied with my photocopy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I researched this a while ago and found that there is no requirement that you must carry your passport on your person. .......... The whole thing about being required to carry your passport with you at all times is a myth. I can post the relevant laws if anyone is interested. Give it a try... If you were at Q bar without passport or equivalent docs you were on the way to Lumpini Station. Guess you were going to discuss Thai law at a Thai police station with a Thai officer. Good luck! Let me know what the outcome of the discussion will be. You need to be able to identify yourselves to the relevant authorities. Only immigration police (division 3??) can arrrest you on immigration charges. Above are two different statements, do not mix them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkharry Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I carry my passport all the time in a small zip lock bag. One like you get from a Hospital or Pharmacy for your medications. Its the perfect size and keeps you passport from getting trashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 The whole thing about being required to carry your passport with you at all times is a myth. I can post the relevant laws if anyone is interested. bobcat, please post it here in English and Thai, if possible. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK_banger Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Bobcat is absolutely right. I do not have the papers to hand but there is no requirement, certainly in Bangkok Metropolitan area, to carry your passport at all times. However This is Thailand. The round ups and sweeps in the last year around Bangkok have revealed all sorts of respectable looking people who are here illegally. The sweeps of Suk 3 and Suk 5 have netted many people of African origin. These people have been taken to Lumpini police station irresepective of whether they were carrying a passport. At Lumpini they have been checked and processed and those who could produce genuine documents allowed to go. The others have been detained and deported. This would appear to be in conjunction with Immigration police. This could happen in any area and just having a passport with you may not help you avoid a trip if you have been "profiled". A Thai driving licence is readily accepted by the police as their purpose is to identify you and this works just fine. Thai police do not like to cause too much work for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 OK, just seen a post from another board from someone that was there and ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN ORIGINAL PASSPORT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Copies, other photo id etc was not enough proof to stop you being hauled off. There were two buses outside, so obviously they expected to catch high numbers. And it appears not to have been local cops but Interior Ministry Cops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Well seems like we are at odds here- never carry my passport anywhere apart from airport and it then goes into a lock box. Too easy to get the bloody thing nicked or lost. Copy of passport and/or driver license was satisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyespan Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 There are hotels in LOS that do not accept your normal visa carbon copy as a guarantee. They keep your passports for you when you check-in and release it upon checking out. Don't take my word for it.... check it out yourself. I would say only 1 hotel in Hatyai does otherwise. Anyways, I was stopped for countless roadblocks because of the problems in the south and the photocopy of your passport works fine as an ID. Sometimes they ask for something else with your name and photo to authenticate your photocopy, it is rather unclear and in black and white of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Don't forget, Plod is after cash for himself, hence the stops, nothing to do with Immigration. A long time expat resident was stopped by two Plods last week as he left work, a hospital, showed them his photocopied pport and work permit and Thai driver's licence. No good. They wanted 2000Bt... they settled for 200Bt and went on their way. Plod is an embarrassment to the Immi Police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 There are hotels in LOS that do not accept your normal visa carbon copy as a guarantee. They keep your passports for you when you check-in and release it upon checking out. Don't take my word for it.... check it out yourself. I would say only 1 hotel in Hatyai does otherwise. Anyways, I was stopped for countless roadblocks because of the problems in the south and the photocopy of your passport works fine as an ID. Sometimes they ask for something else with your name and photo to authenticate your photocopy, it is rather unclear and in black and white of course. Although you are right that hotels in Hat Yai want to keep your passport have always been able to pay in advance to avoid that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 OK, just seen a post from another board from someone that was there and ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN ORIGINAL PASSPORT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Copies, other photo id etc was not enough proof to stop you being hauled off."Post from another board" -- does that sound particularly credible to anyone?There were two buses outside, so obviously they expected to catch high numbers. And it appears not to have been local cops but Interior Ministry Cops. What's the source for this information? I heard from a friend of a friend that one of the buses was driven by an extra-terrestrial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK_banger Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Bluebear, Calm yourself, man. The sweep was to pick up illegals hence the buses and the fact they wanted to check everyone's ORIGINAL passport and visa against the computer. What is to stop you carrying a photocopy of someone else's passport and visa with your mugshot on it? This is not normal police business. The drug testing would be but not the Immigration checks. Always have some form of ID such that the cops can verify who you are, otherwise they will want to interrogate you further. A small matter which can be sorted out at the cop shop without money changing hands. Never pay just because a cop demands it unless you are clearly guilty, then grovel a bit to get the price down. In England you do not have to carry ID but if the constable has reasonable grounds to believe you have given a false name and address you can be arrested, it is one of the General Arrest Conditions. Hence Thailand is not alone in having these procedures. My advice would be not to carry your passport with you. If you have a Thai driver's licence which has your Thai address on it the cops would love to see it. If you carry a photocopy this will be fine 99% of the time and will avoid getting your licence ransomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 OK, just seen a post from another board from someone that was there and ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN ORIGINAL PASSPORT WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Copies, other photo id etc was not enough proof to stop you being hauled off. "Post from another board" -- does that sound particularly credible to anyone? There were two buses outside, so obviously they expected to catch high numbers. And it appears not to have been local cops but Interior Ministry Cops.What's the source for this information? I am not going to name the source as I dont have the guys permission to "out" him as a member of the board. But what I said tallies with info posted in the News Clippings Thread. If you dont believe me then up to you. I heard from a friend of a friend that one of the buses was driven by an extra-terrestrial. As a mod you should know better than making this kind of troll reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebear Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Bluebear,Calm yourself, man. The sweep was to pick up illegals hence the buses and the fact they wanted to check everyone's ORIGINAL passport and visa against the computer. What is to stop you carrying a photocopy of someone else's passport and visa with your mugshot on it? This is not normal police business. The drug testing would be but not the Immigration checks. Always have some form of ID such that the cops can verify who you are, otherwise they will want to interrogate you further. A small matter which can be sorted out at the cop shop without money changing hands. Never pay just because a cop demands it unless you are clearly guilty, then grovel a bit to get the price down. In England you do not have to carry ID but if the constable has reasonable grounds to believe you have given a false name and address you can be arrested, it is one of the General Arrest Conditions. Hence Thailand is not alone in having these procedures. My advice would be not to carry your passport with you. If you have a Thai driver's licence which has your Thai address on it the cops would love to see it. If you carry a photocopy this will be fine 99% of the time and will avoid getting your licence ransomed. It is not about calming myself. It is about reporting the facts of what happened. Read the post again. Photocopies were not accepted as proof of id. The police who came were not local police ( the local police providing security were as much in the dark as anyone else ). They were from the Ministry of Interior. Do you really think illegals are hiding out in Q Bar???? And that they have computers with them in the raid to check them??!!! That was not the point of the sweep. Drugs were. Yes, legally in theory it is only immigration who are allowed to check your visa status but this is Thailand and what happens is down to the moment and the head person on site. If this is a prescedent, then if you go out with a photocopy, you will be taken to the police station until someone comes with the original. Previously, I thought I had been safe carrying a photocopy with the latest stamp but even this now appears to be not enough. This is the main point. NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE!!!!! As for your advice, I will take it with a pinch of salt. Just dont call me at 2.30am when your photocopy isnt good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britmaveric Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Well the way I look at it if they want to see the original then they can certainly go with me and see it. No reasonable person would carry a passport out especially when they are on a session- just asking to lose it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udon Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Let's hope bobcat can find the relevant ruling or statute ref number to clarify this. No mean feat I guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I think what people may be overlooking on this one is that the Minister was directly involved. It probably wouldn't have mattered if you had your passport original plus 30 other forms of ID on you, the coppers would have nicked you anyway, cause they had no choice...the minister wanted heads. The reason is that this minister, as the successor to Purachai, is not seen by Dear Leader Thaksin as doing as good as job as his predecessor and is considered a little on the outer in this government. Hence, these show trail "raids" on places like the Q bar and Soi 4 with newspaper and TV mysteriously on hand, so he can get his ugly head in the newspaper the next day, which he can take to his boss and show what a wonderful job he is actually doing. Its not right, nor fair, but for politicians holding a morals crusade in thailand is good for business, a bit like a politician in the west offering Tax cuts...it goes down well with the punters and in this case, the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKK_banger Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Read the post again. Photocopies were not accepted as proof of id. The police who came were not local police. They were from the Ministry of Interior. Do you really think illegals are hiding out in Q Bar???? And that they have computers with them in the raid to check them??!!! That was not the point of the sweep. Drugs were. Yes, legally in theory it is only immigration who are allowed to check your visa status but this is Thailand and what happens is down to the moment and the head person on site. If this is a prescedent, then if you go out with a photocopy, you will be taken to the police station until someone comes with the original. Previously, I thought I had been safe carrying a photocopy with the latest stamp but even this now appears to be not enough. This is the main point. NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE!!!!! As for your advice, I will take it with a pinch of salt. Just dont call me at 2.30am when your photocopy isnt good enough. Well maybe you would like to call me from Lumpini police station if you have a problem. I had Mr. Lawrence on the blower a few months ago from there (Name changed to protect the guilty) but fortunately at 3 p.m. He had been swept up in Soi 3 along with other Nigerians and carted off even though he had his passport with him. Immigration were processing them at lumpini station with a view to throwing them out of the country. Never found out why the cop shop was used and not Suan Phlu. Fortunately he was able to contact my dear lady who handles various legal transactions for him and who was able to provide all his company documents, work permit etc. to show he was bona fide and get him released. Otherwise off to a holding cell and deportation. In his case it did not matter if he had a real passport or one of the fakes you can buy in ........ .............. ..... or a photocopy. You do run a risk with photocopies that you may have to make such a call but it is a small percentage. My point was that you are not subject to a fine or conviction but that the police can get pissy if they cannot identify you. If a big cheese is breathing down their neck they may get officious about photocopies and then you need to retrieve your passport. An original Thai driving licence has always satisfied them in my experience, even when they have a hard on to bust me. I do not carry a photocopy of my passport and have never shown it to anyone in many years in Thailand except for official transactions. As to illegals in Q Bar, why not? Are illegals all crammed into sweat shops in Yaowarrat? Are all English teachers above board? Londoner on a Wednesday night is next?? If it was drugs then the patrons deserve to get busted for hanging out in this den of drug hazed teenage sex. I will go tonight to check it out ............................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 If they are going to treat tourists in this way, they will not have a tourism industry for very long. I suggest Mr Lawrence writes a letter of complaint to the Head of Immigration at Suan Plu, detailing what happened. Maj Gen Hemmeraj does take note of letters addressed to his office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer0 Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 Photocopy, preferably certified by embassy or immigration office usually will do the trick, same as Thai driving licence. Neither is, as far as I know, acceptable by law to replace an original passport. Unpur certifies copies of almost all papers but no idea what they charge at present per page. Means a red stamp and signiture. Is that also done by immigration on passports??? A certified copy as far as I know has the same value for identification as an original.... I haven't carried my passport for 18 years... Thai driverslicense normally works fine and anyway as long as one stays polite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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