Looking For Spinoza

[drummer]

I just wanted to see what people around here think of a book "Looking For Spinoza" by Antonio Damasio. Has anyone read it?

Although I dropped out for other persuits, I studied neurophysiology for a few years and have been an avid follower of info as it comes out- I found this book to be utterly fascinating. It puts forth a very specific, testable, reasonable and simple mechanism and purpose for emotions. I have only a very basic understanding of Buddhism, but many of the concepts seem to jive with general Buddhist thought that I am familiar with.

Heres a very basic summary:

Emotions are body states. Your brain measures how much adrenaline you are pumping, heart rate, sugar level, etc etc and creates a 'body map' You then look at the 'body map' and percieve what emotion, or mix of emotions best seems to fit - so "feelings" are your minds perception of your body state. Many of the basic mechanisms seemed to fit, like three levels of emotions interacting to lead to a plethora of feelings. I hesitate to go to far in, because frankly, I need to reread the book to be able to explain it fully, but it seemed to resonate with Buddhism, if that makes sense.

I have a lot of respect for Buddhist thought- especially when it comes to mental issues, so I'm quite curious to hear what people think.

Thanks

[sabaijai]

I think there are some strong similarities here, and I would definitely like to peruse this book Looking for Spinoza. A couple of my dhamma teachers of yore taught a method for dealing with emotions that especially resonates with what you've written.

Basically the message is that all our feelings, good or bad, are encoded in physical symptoms, yet we ignore these physical symptoms to focus on our perceived emotions, and as a result they control us rather than vice versa. If we observe the physical set mindfully, we can see that the whole complex arises according to our misapprehension of nama and rupa, mind and form. We might not be able to erase the mental 'tapes' but we can see how the process works, and when the loop comes around again, we can choose not to react in an unskillful, unproductive or unsociable way.

Part of the natural order, says Buddhism, is that all states of mind - emotions - produce physical effects, and if you focus on the physical you can see their dissolution.

This kind of thinking, whether by Buddhists or by scientists, is revolutionary in the sense that it counters the common Western notion that you need to express your feelings or else they will somehow be 'repressed' or 'sublimated'. That sort of old-fashioned Freudian psychological theory isn't tenable anymore in the face of studies that show that people who tend not to act out their negative emotions show much lower levels of stress (as measured by perspiration, heartbeat, adrenaline in the bloodstream, etc) than people who do report that they always try to express or act on their negative emotions.

The thing is, whatever emotion you're undergoing, no matter how strong, is impermanent. And when one focuses on the real heart of such strong emotions - the physical response - they seem to pass more quickly.

In other words, work from the physical and the emotions will clear themselves.

"Like poking your finger through the layer of foam atop a bubble bath," is how one teacher presented the idea to me.

Edited August 17, 2004 by sabaijai

[drummer]

Hmmmm. That does seem to be very, very close. One thing described in the book is a complex feedback loop, whereby the mind modifies the body state and visa versa.

The method you describe to deal with emotions jives with another thing I have read - how meditation can produce repeatable, consistent brain states (with PET, fMRI scans) With the new revelation that even one specific experience can actually modify the physical structure of the brain, it is a short step to guess that meditation can modify the structure to produce a more helpful, positive, effective brain- and the initial reports from the research looks rather promising.

At least from my own experience, emotions don't get sublimated, but knowledge can- leading one to "overreact" to the straw that breaks the camels back. Freud had some awfully interesting ideas- but they just don't seem to make complete sense.

[bina]

but we can see how the process works, and when the loop comes around again, we can choose not to react in an unskillful, unproductive or unsociable way.

most people are not aware that they are often angry when they are hungry, or tired or thirsty;

i suffer from low blood sugar; as a child i was a very very calm child until i missed a meal. then watch out, i could become lizzie borden... as an adult, i've learned that when i am close to meal time, i start feeling angery, irritiable etc about a particular event in the day . i take a few deep breaths, eat , wait a few minutes, and lo! am no longer angry etc.... then i can make a clear useful decision about same event.

my daughter (10) becomes frustrated easily, gets angry and does the israeli thing (yells turns red in the face...etc), gets a migraine then panics from the pain which gets worse... have been teachng her to deep breathe, not flare out so much, and less headaches. also when she gets them, deep breathng, relaxing and not fighting seems to make them pass faster (w/acamol); also making her laugh helps in beginning stages; smiling allows more oxygen into brain (lips parted and open) as any lamaze birth teacher will tell you so perhaps smiling and laughng allow more oxygen into brain and therefore tension is reduced ... jai yen yen...

i definately think emotions are caused by physical reactions but then israelis consider me unemotional ; am not repressed, i'm just calm in most situations; working with animals i've learned that its not enough to fake being not stressed or fearful, they feel it, you must breathe deeply, really relax all of body, feel really relaxed then the animal feels relaxed and life is so much simpler all around and it seems really stupid to get angry over something, or upset or whatever.

i remember that while breast feeding, all of us mothers used to say we felt like placid cows, until my doctor friend pointed out that indeed we secrete hormones while breastfeeding that make us placid like cows!!! cant remember name of hormone.

point being that most poeple are not taught to be aware of why they have the emotion they are feeling as far as physical things (hunger tired cold whatever). therefore if they feel anger or whatever but they know its because their sugar level has dropped, then they can be aware and not 'give in' to the anger, but relax by acknowledging it as hunger-anger and in that case, avoid confrontation, go and eat, and then return to deal with the problem (what i try to do)the problem then suddenly seems much less problematic also... this behavior becomes a habit and things seem to go easier sort of like self conditioning towards contentment

did i lose the thread here??

[sabaijai]

did i lose the thread here??

I'd say you added another dimension to it, no loss of thread

[drummer]

Indeed Great practical info