Hydroponic Farming

[stevehaigh]

i'm building an aerospring system to grow toms, peppers and lettuce. (aerospring is basically a plastic box with a fine mist sprinkler system in side. the roots don't sit in water, they are in air and constantly watered). i'm going to put the main nutrient reservoirs underground to cool the nutrient solution down to i hope an optimal temperature.

can someone tell me, how many hours a day should i run the pump system? 24/7? day only? continuous on and off?

it seems logical to me to maybe run it about 5-10 mins on/5-10 mins off in the day and 5-10 mins on, 20-30 mins off at night to keep the roots moist and save money on electric and replacing pumps. what do you think about that?

thx steve

[teletiger]

Don't know if you've looked here Steve:

http://www.futuregarden.com/hydroponics/sy...aerospring.html

From what I've read, one of the dangers of aeroponics is an electrical failure, as the roots dry out fairly quickly.

Got some other stuff I'll post later.

Regards

[rice555]

Hello teletiger, I was going to reply and say the same thing, no juice, the plants don't last long in the heat.

If you use a bubbler system, at least their feet stay wet.

I'm putting a 500lt nute tank up on a cement ring as to be able to water by gravity if the power goes off and can't use the pump.

The DTF, the plants still sit in some nutes, at Accent one day getting a tour, the guy started up the gas water to show us the emergency backup system. If you are just growing for a hobby, you maybe can take the hit and start over, but for a living, it's a bad step.

The only big aero place I know is in Singapore, Aero Green, I bet they have back up.

rice555

[rice555]

It must be the eye? forgot to ad gas "pump" and Accent, are NTF systems from OZ.

rice555

[Bpraim1]

I bought a small gen for the nice long power fails and brown outs.

I use recir and bubbles, but love my plants. Not take'n any chances, also keeps the wife happy with hot water and tv.

[stevehaigh]

Don't know if you've looked here Steve:

http://www.futuregarden.com/hydroponics/sy...aerospring.html

From what I've read, one of the dangers of aeroponics is an electrical failure, as the roots dry out fairly quickly.

Got some other stuff I'll post later.

Regards

yep, i realized that too and on Ko Phangan fai dap boi boi.

i checked baansai a couple of days ago and noticed on their aero systems, the pump only comes on for 2-3 secs and off for one minute. on my system, i'm planning to use a 12VDC pump and modify a cars intermittent windshield wiper controller to get the pump on/off controller. i'll power the system from a couple of car batteries on permanent charge, then if the power fails, the car batteries should keep the pump running for several hours.

steve

Edited March 19, 2009 by stevehaigh

[rice555]

Hello stevehaigh, I don't know if you have a good magazine stand on the island, the new April 2552 issue #33 of House Ag Mag has the cover and pgs 75-102, a farm in Pac Chong that's big in hydro.

rice555

[cloghead]

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

[edgarfriendly]

used the ack a+b hydro nutes for a while but had better results just using worm castings fish emulsion and bat guano.

ive had a lotta problems with hydro, and humidity here. now im using mostly coco with the same nutes so theres plenty of drainage.

burying a reservoir is one way ive considered but the gravity prob in a blackout is one i cant risk.

Rice - how long does 500ltr last ya? those melons look great mine aint but 3 weeks old, hating the moisture...

Bpraim - what spec gen u got?

ef

[rice555]

Hello edgarfrindly, I have been going backwards on my hydro project and have not really carried through what I should have done, so I really can't give a good an answer on tutes use. I need to pop the clutch and start moving. I's been the computer, the modem, the rain, the weeds, the air, the net. The truth is I haven't had my mind on things, and let things go. Got half way through setting up the rows of bags and just stopped, keep the old plants feed and they are flowering and some fruit.

These plants are hand watered(nutes) two times a day and water only mid day if real HOT. I go through 120lt of nutes on 200 plants in 3 feedings,(day and 1/2) I loose some as I don't lift the spout between bags, but it's faster and easier on the wrist than tipping at each plant.

I need to finish the rows out back and growing to give you the answer.

rice555

[stroopeffect]

Wow...Thailand is really moving foward with hydroponic units suitable for these hot and steamy conditions...I've visited Bansai and definately recommend them...the workshop there is allways booked to capacity but maybe if you place an order they will give you a timeframe for completion.

I have also bought NFT channels from Apithep( scuse the spelling) at Accent Hydroponics in Bangkok. They're location can be difficult to get to but well worth the trip if you want to see a very good example of NFT lettuce.

[rice555]

Hello stroopeffect, thanks for the pictures, I haven't been to Accent for a couple of years, the shade cloth is new as is most of the buildings. They only use to have one ebb and flow table for starts, are the using the foam cubes for starts now? They were big on perlite before.

The first picture, the white PVC pipe between running in the center of the cannel's is their fancy cooling system for when it gets hot. You can see the hard PE riser with the dripper-pulse chamber with sprinkler on top. This the first place I found them, they only had 2 for sale which I bought. Even with the name on the side of the thing, I could never find them for sale on a web search. Super Products sales one like it, but its U/D unit on poly tubing. Its not in their catalog.

Do they still sell magazines and books for sale?

rice555

[stroopeffect]

Hello stroopeffect, thanks for the pictures, I haven't been to Accent for a couple of years, the shade cloth is new as is most of the buildings. They only use to have one ebb and flow table for starts, are the using the foam cubes for starts now? They were big on perlite before.

The first picture, the white PVC pipe between running in the center of the cannel's is their fancy cooling system for when it gets hot. You can see the hard PE riser with the dripper-pulse chamber with sprinkler on top. This the first place I found them, they only had 2 for sale which I bought. Even with the name on the side of the thing, I could never find them for sale on a web search. Super Products sales one like it, but its U/D unit on poly tubing. Its not in their catalog.

Do they still sell magazines and books for sale?

rice555

Yeh rice they have books, magazines and even grow lights avaliable for sale. The foam cubes a great for propogation but they fall apart easily from the block which can get annoying...but overall i recommend them for sure.

I'm hoping to start my NFT system up again soon. Looks like a trip to Bangas is on the cards....carting all the equipment back to Siem Reap is quite a journey..plenty of palm greasing at the border ect.

Here's a few photos of my last attempt at NFT in Cambodia. Due to power outages, lack of understanding by the locals and generally getting f###*d with i decided to pack it all away for a later date.

avagoodone ..

stroop.

[bobby57]

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

I am in the process of building up my farm and use their chemicals. I am not experienced and its a lot of trial and error. Since reading your posting I've started to doubt their god-like chemistry! Sometimes when the A is added to the water there is a lot of white precipitation - these beds don't seem to grow too well unless they get a lot of agitation.

I tried cabbage etc with no success - they stared grand but then near the end started to rot! For "Thai" vegetables like pak, the system seems to work well but the secong crop shows a lot of yellowing - they say to add 50% to second toip-ups but I'm begining to think thats not enough.

Also using their A & B for the rice/sand mix as can't get anything else!! Tried the company Rice suggested but they just gave me the phone number for bangsai!! Anyway these seem to be growing OK though a little slowly

Any and all comments / advice greatly appreciated!.

[rice555]

Hello stroopeffect, I have no hydro greens growing time under my belt, but for a small system and where there maybe power problems, my friends 2.5" PVC tube fits the bill. The tubes never fully drain, the drain end has a bell reducer on the end before it goes into the EL's to the to the drain/return line, sort of a mini DFT system.

His system is 'not cemented' together, so is simi-portable and easy to move or add more tubes to make the system bigger, you should be able to source everything in country.

Is there any other people growing hydro in Cam? Good luck with you growing.

rice555

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, WESCO only sales 'bulk' dry chem's/T-E's and custom blends.

I don't know the amount you need/use, but there smallest kit makes about 12,000L. of nutes. If you don't use much, it's easier to buy liquid/dry nutes from one of the co's that have been listed on one of the hydro threads. If you are like me and got tires of the BS and want to make your own, that can cost a lot to start, but the cost are much lower than store bought. If you are a small grower, it's hard to find small amounts of most chems, they normally come 25kg bags, so a bag of MAP will make 50 5L kits@ 50grs a kit. The STEM/micro nutes do come in 1kg. You need to have a DRY/low humidity place to keep/mix the 6 or7-25kg bags and 3or4 1kg bags.

Making my own now, I still do have a small crystalline problem on the bulk tank(working stock) walls and is more prevalent on the A-B balk tank cap threads. I also get some skimming at times on the bulk tank, I think my potassium nitrate or mag sulfate is the problem, but I'm not using a lot now, things are in the planning stage for an Aug. planting if the econ picks up, waiting for the seed to arrive.

rice555

[cloghead]

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

I am in the process of building up my farm and use their chemicals. I am not experienced and its a lot of trial and error. Since reading your posting I've started to doubt their god-like chemistry! Sometimes when the A is added to the water there is a lot of white precipitation - these beds don't seem to grow too well unless they get a lot of agitation.

I tried cabbage etc with no success - they stared grand but then near the end started to rot! For "Thai" vegetables like pak, the system seems to work well but the secong crop shows a lot of yellowing - they say to add 50% to second toip-ups but I'm begining to think thats not enough.

Also using their A & B for the rice/sand mix as can't get anything else!! Tried the company Rice suggested but they just gave me the phone number for bangsai!! Anyway these seem to be growing OK though a little slowly

Any and all comments / advice greatly appreciated!.

bobby 57--did you interpret Bangsai's instructions the same way as me (adding part B only one day after filling the res with A) ??? What's the point in a part B if there's zero nutes and only a few trace elements? If there's a method to their madness it's beyond me. Whatever...

Regardless, if the NPK of part A is actually 2.7-0.6-3.3 it is WAY defecient in phosforous. No wonder you're having probs...

[bobby57]

Hello bobby57, WESCO only sales 'bulk' dry chem's/T-E's and custom blends.

I don't know the amount you need/use, but there smallest kit makes about 12,000L. of nutes. If you don't use much, it's easier to buy liquid/dry nutes from one of the co's that have been listed on one of the hydro threads. If you are like me and got tires of the BS and want to make your own, that can cost a lot to start, but the cost are much lower than store bought. If you are a small grower, it's hard to find small amounts of most chems, they normally come 25kg bags, so a bag of MAP will make 50 5L kits@ 50grs a kit. The STEM/micro nutes do come in 1kg. You need to have a DRY/low humidity place to keep/mix the 6 or7-25kg bags and 3or4 1kg bags.

Making my own now, I still do have a small crystalline problem on the bulk tank(working stock) walls and is more prevalent on the A-B balk tank cap threads. I also get some skimming at times on the bulk tank, I think my potassium nitrate or mag sulfate is the problem, but I'm not using a lot now, things are in the planning stage for an Aug. planting if the econ picks up, waiting for the seed to arrive.

rice555

Hi Rice - did you get the photos I emailed to the hotmail box a few months ago??

At the moment I'm up to about 1,000 liters (A & of concentrate per annum and rising!! Nearly all floating beds - water convolus at the moment as thats what the better half can sell easiest!! The tomatoe plants are also looking seriously good! Bracias were a noteable failure! Could that be a phosperous shortage????

How do you add a missing element? Probably a stupid question from a stupid gardner but any of the chemicals I can find are compounds rather than pure and I don't remember chemistry well enough to know if there would be chemical reactions defeating the purpose! I do remember that raw phospherous is fun stuff! Just look at the Israelies in gaza! Somehow I don't think lobbing phospherous grenades and running like hel_l will solve the problem! Could be fun though!

When I got the stuff from the states I asked about the chemistry and was told that it wasn't critical! I guess they never tried to buy chemicals in Thailand!!

All best wishes

[bobby57]

I've just visited Bangsaiagro's website and found the formula (components) of their A & B nutes. In the 'A' the NPK is 269/57/326!!! That's an accident waiting to happen. The instructions then say to add the 'B' (which hasn't any NPK, and not all the compliment of micros) to the res ONE day later (after application of the 'A' in the res)!!! <deleted>???

Has anyone on here ever actually used these nutes? If yes, what was the outcome...???

I am in the process of building up my farm and use their chemicals. I am not experienced and its a lot of trial and error. Since reading your posting I've started to doubt their god-like chemistry! Sometimes when the A is added to the water there is a lot of white precipitation - these beds don't seem to grow too well unless they get a lot of agitation.

I tried cabbage etc with no success - they stared grand but then near the end started to rot! For "Thai" vegetables like pak, the system seems to work well but the secong crop shows a lot of yellowing - they say to add 50% to second toip-ups but I'm begining to think thats not enough.

Also using their A & B for the rice/sand mix as can't get anything else!! Tried the company Rice suggested but they just gave me the phone number for bangsai!! Anyway these seem to be growing OK though a little slowly

Any and all comments / advice greatly appreciated!.

bobby 57--did you interpret Bangsai's instructions the same way as me (adding part B only one day after filling the res with A) ??? What's the point in a part B if there's zero nutes and only a few trace elements? If there's a method to their madness it's beyond me. Whatever...

Regardless, if the NPK of part A is actually 2.7-0.6-3.3 it is WAY defecient in phosforous. No wonder you're having probs...

Yes, that was my understanding - though being an impatient bugger I sometimes only waited a few hours with no perceptible effect! Can I ask you the same question I just asked Rice - how does one add an individual nutrient with confidence that the resulting chemical interaction wouldn'e mess everything up even further??

In some cases I noted yellowing of new growth - shortage of sulpher - but how to add? The only place it appears in bangsai's stuff is in B, so just chuck in more B?? I should have paid more attention inj chemistry in college instead of playing around to see who could get the biggest bang! (possibly an Irish trait!).

Best Wishes

[cloghead]

"how does one add an individual nutrient with confidence that the resulting chemical interaction wouldn'e mess everything up even further??"

If Bangsai's analysis of their nutes are actually correct I think that effort would be dam_n near impossible...

I hope a successful user of Bangsai's 2-part nutes will provide the answers because I sure don't have any. NPK represents the % volume (of 100) so Bangsai's part A (269-57-326) makes no sense unless the % is 1000 or ???

If you can find an agriculture/farm supply store look for a balanced fert (10-10-10, 20-20-20, etc) and a product with a good compliment of micro-nutes and have a go with various strengths using those. Is there perhaps a university/tech college nearby that you can talk to??? I bet they could explain this confusion.

I wouldn't touch Bangsai's nutes with a bargepole from the info I've seen so far...

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, for a quick check/fix, have you tried nutes from ACK, Fresh Gardens or Accent? It may be the fast way to solve your problem, call and order a small kit, they will ship to you.

If you want small amounts of single chem's, give them a try, this is from the slacked lime thread:"Hello Somtham, I was trying to gget to the show, Vidhyasom Co. LTD BKK.

Calcium Hydroxide B.P. 450G.(not 500)

387100-2,39115783 3925812, 3926335 and thats the phone numbers on the box, it's been awhile, can't remember the price, but was under B100.

rice555"

If they don't, the only other place close is the place in Singapore, they sale 100gr packs, Hydro-Gardens in the US has 1lb. of some chems. These two places url's are in one of the T-V hydro threads.

Tomatoes need potassium sulphate(0-0-50) which is not in lettuce nutes, usually 250grms per 5lt kit.(part-

I don't have the sediment problem that I did have with dry nutes that I bought pre-mixed. I have never grown any lettuce/green(s) vegetables, but my tomatoes did much better after I used the right nutes.

I'll never get any pictures if you send to hotmail, never have had a HM account.

PM me for an @ or specific chem.

rice555

[cloghead]

bobby57--Are you hydro (DFT, E & F, NFT or plain old coco hand-water DTW)? rice555 has given you some good contacts and advice. Check 'em out. After reading their website again today, I think maybe Bangsai may be selling their part 'A' as a 'stand alone' nute and part 'B' as a 'micro-nute' compliment (not much there, that's for sure). I just can't understand the NPK of their part 'A' as a 'good-for-everything' nute. But then, I ain't DJ Short

Combining parts A & B and applying at the same time makes more sense than delaying the application by one day (<deleted>???) of part 'B' as per Bangsai's instructions. Just don't mix them together (undiluted) in the same container, get my drift? So don't worry about that part. Try as I may, I can't get my head around their method--but I haven't used their product so I'll shut up.

If you find the contacts, time and patience, maybe grab some small, individual packs of N, P & K and micros and experiment on some test plants (if your situation permits). I have a go-to lady that may help you--Khun Wasana--# 02 618 3666. She's next to JJ Market and will at least listen to you and make suggestions. She'll do ThaiPost, bus and regional transport.

Good luck

Edited May 22, 2009 by cloghead

[rice555]

Hello cloghead and bobby57, I've not gone to their site in a while, but some of the their language gets lost in translation.

Are you sure it's not when you mix the A and B into the working solution that this is done over the 2 days, not feeding A one day and B the next?

The few times I've been there, the crops look very nice!

It also might clear things up if you called them and asked.

rice555

[bobby57]

Hello bobby57, WESCO only sales 'bulk' dry chem's/T-E's and custom blends.

I don't know the amount you need/use, but there smallest kit makes about 12,000L. of nutes. If you don't use much, it's easier to buy liquid/dry nutes from one of the co's that have been listed on one of the hydro threads. If you are like me and got tires of the BS and want to make your own, that can cost a lot to start, but the cost are much lower than store bought. If you are a small grower, it's hard to find small amounts of most chems, they normally come 25kg bags, so a bag of MAP will make 50 5L kits@ 50grs a kit. The STEM/micro nutes do come in 1kg. You need to have a DRY/low humidity place to keep/mix the 6 or7-25kg bags and 3or4 1kg bags.

Making my own now, I still do have a small crystalline problem on the bulk tank(working stock) walls and is more prevalent on the A-B balk tank cap threads. I also get some skimming at times on the bulk tank, I think my potassium nitrate or mag sulfate is the problem, but I'm not using a lot now, things are in the planning stage for an Aug. planting if the econ picks up, waiting for the seed to arrive.

rice555

How do I find WESCO? I tried google but only got electrical stuff.

I had to change some of my floating beds from plastic sheeting to plastered concrete - rats eating through and making nests!! Since then to percentage of precipitation has increased. Seems to be taking a lot of nitrogen out of the mix as the plants go pale yellow. have started experimenting with adding 10-10-10 and similar and that seems to be helping.

I still have enough chemical for about 300 liters each od their A & B but can use that up on the rice hull / sand beds. I would rather change away from bangsai - not only because there appear too many problems with their chemicals but also their "service". I have pirchased from them at distance now 3 times and each time followed their directions but each time they ignored the fax and nothing happened till a follow up phone call. The first time was for their kit which was sent by mail but the last 2 were for substantial amounts (weight) and I was charged for delivery to my home but only got delivery to the nearest town - the last time they charged me 900 baht for delivery but the delivery company gave me their paper work which showed a charge of 80 baht!

Do you find that the WESCO mixes are good? My floating beds are a mix of that veg and tomatoes!! Its because many are modified from earlier raised beds and the polystyrene boards don't exaactly measure up too good! So fill the back with off-cuts containing tomatoes!!

Best Wishes

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, one of the other hydro threads give all the info and contact persons(speaks eng.).

They are in a warehouse, thi

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, one of the other hydro threads give all the info and contact persons(speaks eng.).

They are in a warehouse, this is not a 'store', they deal in bulk fertilizer products. If you want a bulk kit, call and talk to him, make an order. They make the kit to order, take a day or two.

He's mailed micro's to me before, 1kg by Thai PO was Bt35. Along the same, ACK has mailed dry-10lt kit to me under Bt.100.

WESCO is off Ladprao 71.

rice555

try this one

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Seeking-Tran...ce-t218451.html

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, I found his B-card.

rice555

Veerapol Niyomthai @ [email protected]

9/40 Moo7, Ladprao Soi 71, Ladprao, Bangkok 10230

0-2539-9003 Fax 0-2538-7603

@ [email protected]

[MudDoc]

Just wanted to say thanks to all the members who have contributed here. Your valuable information is much appreciated, not only by myself, but it would seem by everyone on this thread. My plans have changed since starting this topic, but wanted to thank everyone for all the help.

Cheers guys.

[rice555]

Hello MudDoc, good luck on you next adventure.

rice555

[thescot]

Keeping the hydro forum alive !!!!!

Here's some chilis i've been growing and have plenty more coming ...jalapenos, pascilla bajio and anchos in bulk and several other varieties for personal use. Pretty easy to grow from seed with patience being the part of the key to success. The chili's all take from an average of 65-85 days from seed to picking. I have them under a waterproof open type green house set up which should allow me to grow all year round. Still growing other things with hydro and let the wife take care of the lettuce and Thai greens. She's into hydro and is amazed at some of the results but just can't help herself from buying buffalo shit and some other bad smelling stuff to grow veg in the dirt.

Thescot