Teakwood Plantation

[wooty]

Hey guys

I am going to set up a small teak wook plantation South of Chiangmai. Looks like a lucrative business once the wood can be harvested. Nevertheless, it is a long way to go. So is anyone out there who could share some experience and gimme advice? I would appreciate it!

Lookin' forward to hearing from you!

Wooty

[Beardog]

Hi Wooty,

I am sure not an expert on tree farming,but I think it takes a good deal of time to get a good enough harvest to make it worth it.

I hope some of the pro's can help you on this. Seems like it would be a moneymaker, but you hardly ever hear of anyone doing it. Good luck on your venture! I had big dreams on selling Mango's & other expensive fruits to make expenses down the road & was redirected to a harsh reality check.

I know the good type coffee can be grown in your area, but that takes a lot of time to mature for sale as well.

I like your idea to go for the big ticket item-Might as well do good on the end result as Teakwood is expensive & used here in Thailand!

Beardog

[lannarebirth]

Any of you know if these are good prices?

I can buy 100cm circumference (measured 1.5 meters from ground) teak logs for 3,000 baht. 85cm circumference for 1,500 baht. The 100 cm ones are about 7 meters and the 85cm about 6 meters. What do you think?

[sibeymai]

Any of you know if these are good prices?

I can buy 100cm circumference (measured 1.5 meters from ground) teak logs for 3,000 baht. 85cm circumference for 1,500 baht. The 100 cm ones are about 7 meters and the 85cm about 6 meters. What do you think?

Seems awfully cheap to me. Wonder what the quality and source is.

Last I heard good quality teak (grade suitable for making fine furniture) was selling for as much as USD1,500 per cubic metre, sometimes more.

For plantation timber the rotation is anywhere between 25 and 40-50 years. The longer you leave it the more valuable it becomes, and the more chance there is it will go "missing".

[lannarebirth]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

[sibeymai]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

[lannarebirth]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

[sibeymai]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

I'm using scientifically accepted growth rates. There might be some species which grow faster, and that may be possible if they are planted alongside a river and have water all year round.

However, teak which does not experience a dormancy period during a dry period (around 4 months a year) produces poor quality timber which might explain the low price.

[lannarebirth]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

I'm using scientifically accepted growth rates. There might be some species which grow faster, and that may be possible if they are planted alongside a river and have water all year round.

However, teak which does not experience a dormancy period during a dry period (around 4 months a year) produces poor quality timber which might explain the low price.

OK, thanks for your opinion. Ill follow up with the age tomorrow. Only the first row of trees is along the river, the rest are up the side of a forested hill. I think it's dry at least 4 months, probably longer. Anyway, I thought it was pretty good deal. Time will tell.

[sibeymai]

I agree it seems like a pretty good deal.

[Beardog]

That does seem like a great deal- Wish I could get that type of deal in Pattaya!

So it looks like it will take some time Wooty to grow to harvest teak!

Beardog.

[Loom]

Hang on...I just did some quick figures. I thought lannarebirth said circumference not diameter. A tree with a circumference of 100 cm would have a diameter of 31.8 cm, unless my math is wrong. That diameter would correspond to the growth rate mentioned by Sibeymai for a 14 year tree.

Assuming a log length of 7m, the volume (based on a formula for a cylinder : pie * radius squared * height) would work out to a little less than 1/2 a cubic meter (I think my math is correct). Based on Sibey's pricing the log would be worth Bt25,000!?

Is the $1,500 per cubic meter price for a raw log or for milled wood? If it's for a raw log, I wonder what proportion of an average tree stand would yield wood of that quality?

[keg]

My wifes father has 14 rai planted in Teak. He is in lower Loei Province near Phu Kra Dung. His trees were planted about 13 years ago under some type of government program where the trees were given to him. They gave him a price guarantee of 500 baht a tree after 10 years if he planted them. Of course now the goevenrnment is nowhere to be found with the purchase guarantee. Evidently you have to regeister your teak trees in Thailand with the govenrmnet if you intend to sell them, which he has. They are supposed to give you some kind of stamp or imprint that must be put on the log in order to sell them. He has never thinned them as you are supposed to do in order to get maximum growth. He has 3200 trees and we are trying to talk him into cutting and selling 1000 to 1500 of the trees. There are many plots his size in the area that did the same thing back then. The problem is that they don't seem to know who to sell them to or what the price should be. There have been timber middlemen that come around from time to time offering to buy trees from anybody willing to sell but they seem to be offering peanuts for the price. I am not sure on the exact price but it but think it was about 150 baht a tree for a good size log which seems like he was trying to steal them. Does anybody have any experience with this size operation and how to go about finding someone to buy them and getting a good price? Also there is apparantly different grades of trees and gold being the top but his are the 2nd grade of silver. The wife and I have gone to several differnt places that process the timber but they don't seem to want to divulge much info and only want to know where the trees are. I know teak is supposed to be valuable but it seems like the poor farmers with a small plots are having difficulty realizing their true value.

Keg

[lannarebirth]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

I'm using scientifically accepted growth rates. There might be some species which grow faster, and that may be possible if they are planted alongside a river and have water all year round.

However, teak which does not experience a dormancy period during a dry period (around 4 months a year) produces poor quality timber which might explain the low price.

OK, thanks for your opinion. Ill follow up with the age tomorrow. Only the first row of trees is along the river, the rest are up the side of a forested hill. I think it's dry at least 4 months, probably longer. Anyway, I thought it was pretty good deal. Time will tell.

Sorry I'm late but the sale took two days rather than one. OK, I got a few things wrong. The teak grower I bought from didn't just let nature take it's course with the trees. They are planted at certain spacings and were trimmed for the first few years and underbrush is also cleared.

Also I got the lengths wrong. All trees were greater than 7 meters in length, some much greater. I checked the age by counting the rings on the cut tree. It looked like about 14, but it could have been 15 or 16 (for 100cm circ.)

I bought 10 - 85cm + trees. The smallest one was 91cm, the largest 2 were 105 cm (25 yrs i think) and the rest 95cm+ @ 3,000 baht each

1bought 12 - 75cm-84cm trees. All I bought were 81 cm or higher @1,500 baht each

1 bought 12 - 65cm -74cm trees. All I bought were 72 cm or higher @900 baht each

The trucks maximum length capacity was 7 meters, so each was cut to 7 meters, most had additional trunk length varying between 2 and 7 meters which I also received. There was lots of other useful wood which I didn't receive as the forestry official who was present said it was too difficult for him to scale properly.

I paid a truck 5,000 baht for delivery from well north of Chiang Dao to Mae Rim. His trucks inside width is 220cm, Height of load 110 cm, length 7m, (about 17 cu meters). With gaps and spaces, I'd guess there was conservatively 12 cu meters of wood.

Logs, truck, lunches, and tipping the woodsmen, and 3 trips north totaled about 67,500 baht. I don't buy large truckloads of teak everyday, but I think that was a pretty good price.

[Beardog]

Sounds like you made out Lan!

If I were in the north I would love to use Teak instead of regular lumber to make the decking fences & a bunch of other good stuff.

Congratulations It pats to be persistent & it sounds like whatever waste in milling you get your still looking pretty sweet.

I hope Wooty checks back on his post- good stuff!

Thanks for the info!

Cheers- Have fun buckin it up or have a beer or 2 while the boys bust their butts for a little Baht.

Good post.

Beardog

[lannarebirth]

Sounds like you made out Lan!

If I were in the north I would love to use Teak instead of regular lumber to make the decking fences & a bunch of other good stuff.

Congratulations It pats to be persistent & it sounds like whatever waste in milling you get your still looking pretty sweet.

I hope Wooty checks back on his post- good stuff!

Thanks for the info!

Cheers- Have fun buckin it up or have a beer or 2 while the boys bust their butts for a little Baht.

Good post.

Beardog

I won't be making lumber from these poles. It will all be used for either posts or beams. Wish they'd had a few bigger ones, but I took all they had of the largest ones.

[Beardog]

Sounds like you made out Lan!

If I were in the north I would love to use Teak instead of regular lumber to make the decking fences & a bunch of other good stuff.

Congratulations It pats to be persistent & it sounds like whatever waste in milling you get your still looking pretty sweet.

I hope Wooty checks back on his post- good stuff!

Thanks for the info!

Cheers- Have fun buckin it up or have a beer or 2 while the boys bust their butts for a little Baht.

Good post.

Beardog

I won't be making lumber from these poles. It will all be used for either posts or beams. Wish they'd had a few bigger ones, but I took all they had of the largest ones.

Thats cool- sounds like there wont be much wasted & those beams & posts wil be around along time, no termites!!!

good luck & by the way I appreciate your posts always useful knowledge!

Beardog

[Loom]

Great info and thanks lannarebirth!

Based on your estimated volume, that works out to around US$170 per cubic meter. I've checked out the International Tropical Timber org website, which seems to have credible pricing information along with a lot of other interesting stuff. The lowest grade of teak from Burma is quoted at more than US$1,200 per cubic meter, fob.

I wonder if the discrepancy is due to the exporter's margin or are prices for older logs substantially higher than 15 year old wood?

Any explaination for the discrepancy or is US$170 per cubic meter for 15 year old logs about the most a grower can expect these days?

http://www.itto.or.jp/live/PageDisplayHandler?pageId=199

[lannarebirth]

Remeber some of that volume is the tops (beyond 7m). Still lots of usable wood, but not really for lumber Even the top half of the 7m base will begin to taper and I have my doubts what kind of usuable volume one could recover in the form of lumber. You could use the largest logs for milling, but I still think it comes with an unacceptable level of waste and I would not. For lumber I think buying old houses is the most economical way to go about collecting wood.

I think the price we got was the "middleman" price, as we found the place on our own and they have no retail operations. Also, they made an exception for us, as the owner said he usually doesn't sell in less than 100,00 baht lots. I have seen similar logs on lots here that were 4x-5x as expensive and that's why we started our search for what we thought was better value.

It all started when 2 guys from our village showed up carrying a log. They offered it to my girlfriend for 2,000 baht and said they could get more. She ran them off shouting "I'm not paying 2,000 baht for a log 2 men can carry". The Thai woman scaling system . Anyway, most of the logs we ended up with 7 men had trouble carrying (though I have to say the had a high moisture content).

[wooty]

Hey Beardog

Thnx for your reply and your message. I got it, yes, with some delay. I am in Europe right now and will be back in December. I got plans for my plantation, it is half way done and a lot of work, and a lot of fun. I have a business plan and a harvest cicle. I do not go for maximum growth, but for sustainability and economic maximization. So harvesting in a 15 year cicle is looking good, matching groth rate with sale prices. The timber prices are set by the global market, and there is a newsletter anyone can subscribe to and get the latest prices on a monthly basis.

Looking forward to seeing any of you guys should you be in the neigbourhood. I am about 100 km East of Thak between Thak and Phrae; beautiful valley, I tell you, very scenic, and rather rural....

Wooty

[Beardog]

Hey Beardog

Thnx for your reply and your message. I got it, yes, with some delay. I am in Europe right now and will be back in December. I got plans for my plantation, it is half way done and a lot of work, and a lot of fun. I have a business plan and a harvest cicle. I do not go for maximum growth, but for sustainability and economic maximization. So harvesting in a 15 year cicle is looking good, matching groth rate with sale prices. The timber prices are set by the global market, and there is a newsletter anyone can subscribe to and get the latest prices on a monthly basis.

Looking forward to seeing any of you guys should you be in the neigbourhood. I am about 100 km East of Thak between Thak and Phrae; beautiful valley, I tell you, very scenic, and rather rural....

Wooty

Hi Wooty ,

Good to hear from you!

It sounds like you did your homework on the harvesting circle. Probably the most important part in business. Being able to sell the end product is pretty important. I hope the posts helped out a bit.

This forum is filled with good people & everyone shares ideas.

Look forward to seeing you on the track in Dec. Good time to come up! Europe must be frosty right now. See you soon

Beardog

[seykota]

Lannarebirth,

There was lots of other useful wood which I didn't receive as the forestry official who was present said it was too difficult for him to scale properly.

What was the forestry official's involvement?

We have some teak trees on our farm and would like to plant more, as well as eucalyptus, however my wife has been told that permission must be gained from the government before you cut any teak. If it is for your own use, they will ok a limited amount of the timber but if the purpose is commercial they veto it. Our plan therefore is to grow only enough teak for our "retirement home" and the remainder of the farm will be eucalyptus (commercial purpose).

seykota

[wolfmanjack]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

I'm using scientifically accepted growth rates. There might be some species which grow faster, and that may be possible if they are planted alongside a river and have water all year round.

However, teak which does not experience a dormancy period during a dry period (around 4 months a year) produces poor quality timber which might explain the low price.

OK, thanks for your opinion. Ill follow up with the age tomorrow. Only the first row of trees is along the river, the rest are up the side of a forested hill. I think it's dry at least 4 months, probably longer. Anyway, I thought it was pretty good deal. Time will tell.

Sorry I'm late but the sale took two days rather than one. OK, I got a few things wrong. The teak grower I bought from didn't just let nature take it's course with the trees. They are planted at certain spacings and were trimmed for the first few years and underbrush is also cleared.

Also I got the lengths wrong. All trees were greater than 7 meters in length, some much greater. I checked the age by counting the rings on the cut tree. It looked like about 14, but it could have been 15 or 16 (for 100cm circ.)

I bought 10 - 85cm + trees. The smallest one was 91cm, the largest 2 were 105 cm (25 yrs i think) and the rest 95cm+ @ 3,000 baht each

1bought 12 - 75cm-84cm trees. All I bought were 81 cm or higher @1,500 baht each

1 bought 12 - 65cm -74cm trees. All I bought were 72 cm or higher @900 baht each

The trucks maximum length capacity was 7 meters, so each was cut to 7 meters, most had additional trunk length varying between 2 and 7 meters which I also received. There was lots of other useful wood which I didn't receive as the forestry official who was present said it was too difficult for him to scale properly.

I paid a truck 5,000 baht for delivery from well north of Chiang Dao to Mae Rim. His trucks inside width is 220cm, Height of load 110 cm, length 7m, (about 17 cu meters). With gaps and spaces, I'd guess there was conservatively 12 cu meters of wood.

Logs, truck, lunches, and tipping the woodsmen, and 3 trips north totaled about 67,500 baht. I don't buy large truckloads of teak everyday, but I think that was a pretty good price.

If you got 12CBM of actual wood which should be listed as such on your paper work from the forest department then 65,000 is very cheap. That is about what i pay the forest department for wood that is 6 meters long and in the 50-59 cm circumference at the middle of the log inside the bark. To really compare you need to measure it at the middle of the log inside the bark on a 6 meter tree to see what the circumference is.

!2CBM on one truck sounds like a lot though. The forest department won't bring me more than 7 CBM on one 10 wheel truck.

Edited November 20, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[wolfmanjack]

Sounds like you made out Lan!

If I were in the north I would love to use Teak instead of regular lumber to make the decking fences & a bunch of other good stuff.

Congratulations It pats to be persistent & it sounds like whatever waste in milling you get your still looking pretty sweet.

I hope Wooty checks back on his post- good stuff!

Thanks for the info!

Cheers- Have fun buckin it up or have a beer or 2 while the boys bust their butts for a little Baht.

Good post.

Beardog

I won't be making lumber from these poles. It will all be used for either posts or beams. Wish they'd had a few bigger ones, but I took all they had of the largest ones.

Thats cool- sounds like there wont be much wasted & those beams & posts wil be around along time, no termites!!!

good luck & by the way I appreciate your posts always useful knowledge!

Beardog

Termites will get into the plantation teak if there is no other wood around. Also there are a few beetles that like teak.

[wolfmanjack]

Great info and thanks lannarebirth!

Based on your estimated volume, that works out to around US$170 per cubic meter. I've checked out the International Tropical Timber org website, which seems to have credible pricing information along with a lot of other interesting stuff. The lowest grade of teak from Burma is quoted at more than US$1,200 per cubic meter, fob.

I wonder if the discrepancy is due to the exporter's margin or are prices for older logs substantially higher than 15 year old wood?

Any explaination for the discrepancy or is US$170 per cubic meter for 15 year old logs about the most a grower can expect these days?

http://www.itto.or.jp/live/PageDisplayHandler?pageId=199

Even the lowest grade teak from old growth is better than plantation teak and more expensive.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Don't know if this is of interest or not but when I was in Panama a year ago they were starting a lot of teak plantations. If you google Panama teak you will find some good some questionable info.

Good luck

Approximate Market Data for One Hectare of Teak

Age Thinning Trees RemainingLogs for Sale (M3) Market Grade Price FOB US$/M3Total US$ 1-11711400N/A N/A N/AN/A12 100 300 8.67 Local260 2,254.001810020026.40Export91924,262.00205015029.11 Export1,131 32,926.00 25 1500 128.95Export1,403 180.915.00Totals:1,111193.13240,357.00 Benefits of Owning a Teak Plantation

• Expenses are up to100% deducible from your income tax declaration.
  
• You will own a large quantity of valuable teakwood ready for export
  
• In Panama there are fiscal incentives for reforestation projects.
  
• Guided tours of the plantation for all investors and guests.
  
• Choose from two different projects, each with unique and valuable characteristics.
  

Teak is Unique

Teak is the world's most valuable hardwood. It is used for outdoor/ indoor furniture, industrial use and it adorns the most elegant homes around the world. Also excellent for marine use - teak yachts, for example, are of paramount quality.

Supply and Demand for Teak

Consider these facts:

• Teak was the only species for which log prices rose in Asia through 2000-2001, as the demand for furniture and other joinery products made from this species remained firm in European, Japanese and Thai markets. (Source: http://www.itto.or.jp/live/index.jsp )
  

• China at 6.1 million ? (42% of all consumer country log imports) remained the world's largest importer of tropical logs in 2000 after overtaking Japan in 1999. China's imports jumped 27% from 1999 levels. (Source: http://www.itto.or.jp/live/index.jsp )
  

• Tropical hardwood log imports by the Inernational Tropical Timber Organization (ITTO) consumer countries rose by 9.2% in 2000, to 14.4 million. If imports by producing members are taken into account, total 2000 tropical log imports by ITTO members were almost 18.1 million ?, 10% more than in 1999 (Source: http://www.itto.or.jp/live/index.jsp )
  

• Myanmar (former Burma) currently produces 80% of the worlds teak supply. The NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC SOCIETY estimates that the last teak forest in Myanmar will be logged by 2010. Also, countries around the world, driven by environmental concerns are banning the importation of tropical hardwoods, including teak unless they come from sustainable yield sources.
  

[lannarebirth]

Lannarebirth,

There was lots of other useful wood which I didn't receive as the forestry official who was present said it was too difficult for him to scale properly.

What was the forestry official's involvement?

We have some teak trees on our farm and would like to plant more, as well as eucalyptus, however my wife has been told that permission must be gained from the government before you cut any teak. If it is for your own use, they will ok a limited amount of the timber but if the purpose is commercial they veto it. Our plan therefore is to grow only enough teak for our "retirement home" and the remainder of the farm will be eucalyptus (commercial purpose).

seykota

Each log taken was numbered, scaled and stamped by the forestry department. I too have many teak trees, some bigger than the ones I bought. I can't cut them, but like you I think I can get permission on a limited basis. I think if I plant more, permission to harvest should be applied for and granted before planting.

The wood I didn't get was 3""- 6"" in diameter, with a lot of it curved. Not too useful for home cunstruction but I could have made a lot of nice shade structures or a pigpen or rustic furniture with it.

Edited November 20, 2007 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

These are 14 (100cm) and 12 (85 cm) years old from a plantation. My use is for columns to support various roof structures. I'll use the narrower ends for smaller shade structures on farm land.

I've never heard of a 14 year old teak tree with 100cm diameter at breast height (DBH). Usually a 14 year old tree will be 30-40cm only, even with optimum growing conditions. Good forestry practices NEVER result in accelerating the growth of trees more than 100%. Usually 25-30% max, and sometimes it's not even that much but more a case of preventing substandard growth rates by good forest practices.

Sorry, but I very much doubt the figures you're quoting.

Well, the price and the size are accurate, and i thought thats what the man told me as far as age goes but maybe I misheard. Anyway I'm getting a load tomorrow. I'm not sure what forestry practices he practices. I know he's got 200 rai of teak trees, along a river bed, of various sizes and ages and after he plants I believe he lets nature take care of the rest. I have to say I think your trees grow really slow.

I'm using scientifically accepted growth rates. There might be some species which grow faster, and that may be possible if they are planted alongside a river and have water all year round.

However, teak which does not experience a dormancy period during a dry period (around 4 months a year) produces poor quality timber which might explain the low price.

OK, thanks for your opinion. Ill follow up with the age tomorrow. Only the first row of trees is along the river, the rest are up the side of a forested hill. I think it's dry at least 4 months, probably longer. Anyway, I thought it was pretty good deal. Time will tell.

Sorry I'm late but the sale took two days rather than one. OK, I got a few things wrong. The teak grower I bought from didn't just let nature take it's course with the trees. They are planted at certain spacings and were trimmed for the first few years and underbrush is also cleared.

Also I got the lengths wrong. All trees were greater than 7 meters in length, some much greater. I checked the age by counting the rings on the cut tree. It looked like about 14, but it could have been 15 or 16 (for 100cm circ.)

I bought 10 - 85cm + trees. The smallest one was 91cm, the largest 2 were 105 cm (25 yrs i think) and the rest 95cm+ @ 3,000 baht each

1bought 12 - 75cm-84cm trees. All I bought were 81 cm or higher @1,500 baht each

1 bought 12 - 65cm -74cm trees. All I bought were 72 cm or higher @900 baht each

The trucks maximum length capacity was 7 meters, so each was cut to 7 meters, most had additional trunk length varying between 2 and 7 meters which I also received. There was lots of other useful wood which I didn't receive as the forestry official who was present said it was too difficult for him to scale properly.

I paid a truck 5,000 baht for delivery from well north of Chiang Dao to Mae Rim. His trucks inside width is 220cm, Height of load 110 cm, length 7m, (about 17 cu meters). With gaps and spaces, I'd guess there was conservatively 12 cu meters of wood.

Logs, truck, lunches, and tipping the woodsmen, and 3 trips north totaled about 67,500 baht. I don't buy large truckloads of teak everyday, but I think that was a pretty good price.

If you got 12CBM of actual wood which should be listed as such on your paper work from the forest department then 65,000 is very cheap. That is about what i pay the forest department for wood that is 6 meters long and in the 50-59 cm circumference at the middle of the log inside the bark. To really compare you need to measure it at the middle of the log inside the bark on a 6 meter tree to see what the circumference is.

!2CBM on one truck sounds like a lot though. The forest department won't bring me more than 7 CBM on one 10 wheel truck.

For determining the purchase price all logs were measured at 1.5 meters from the ground. For the purposes of scaling the logs the were measured at the middle of the 7 meter length. I wasn't clear on that when I saw them putting the numbers on the end and I couldn't figure out why I was getting so many 75ish cm logs when I was paying for bigger. Once explained, no problem.

I wasn't buying from the forest department but a private seller. the forest dept was only called in to record what was sold and give their approval.

[lannarebirth]

Sounds like you made out Lan!

If I were in the north I would love to use Teak instead of regular lumber to make the decking fences & a bunch of other good stuff.

Congratulations It pats to be persistent & it sounds like whatever waste in milling you get your still looking pretty sweet.

I hope Wooty checks back on his post- good stuff!

Thanks for the info!

Cheers- Have fun buckin it up or have a beer or 2 while the boys bust their butts for a little Baht.

Good post.

Beardog

I won't be making lumber from these poles. It will all be used for either posts or beams. Wish they'd had a few bigger ones, but I took all they had of the largest ones.

Thats cool- sounds like there wont be much wasted & those beams & posts wil be around along time, no termites!!!

good luck & by the way I appreciate your posts always useful knowledge!

Beardog

Termites will get into the plantation teak if there is no other wood around. Also there are a few beetles that like teak.

The seller said I should keep all the logs wetted for the first 10 days and he said that would go along way towards preventing future bug problems. You ever heard similar?

[chownah]

Would submerging the logs in a pond for 10 days smother any bugs that were already in them? I don't really know.....just a thought. Just keeping them wet seems like it would enhance the bugginess....but again I don't know.....I've tried different things to keep the bugs out of unmilled teak wood and so far the best thing has been to remove the bark and examine for bugs, remove bugs if any, and then store in an enclosed room with a dry concrete floor. Again I don't know but it seems like the white sapwood on the outside of the log is not very bug resistant and this is how infestations get started.

By the way, how much sapwood do the logs have?

Chownah

Edited November 20, 2007 by chownah