Working With The Thai Mentality?

[asiaexpat]

GREAT!!

The beginnings of another Thai bashing thread. Just what we need.

Why would you feel that analysis is bashing? It is critical to a cooperative workplace to understand the culture and its differences from our own. I work in several different asian environments and find this analysis describes key elements that are intersting and helpful, not derogatory.

Edited November 11, 2007 by asiaexpat

[meemiathai]

I have been here a fortnight now and I am in the process of setting up a business and that is an eye-opener!

I had to have a medical which confirms that I don't have elephantitus, leprosy tuberculosis or dug and alcohol addiction. This was all confirmed by weighing me testing my blood pressure and listening to my heart and stomach through a stethoscope. The miracles of modern science!

The paperwork is legion, over 100 signatures which I had to repeat as they were not all identical and , it seems, this is enough to be rejected.

I think my biggest frustration is my own expectations which are based on the UK! I need to get beyond that. FOr instance the other day I got myself a bit lost. I found a cab and asked to be taken to Thong Lor Soi 21. I said this is English and Thai. But I pronounced it Thong rather than Tong. He looked at me like I was an idiot. I repeated myself a few times but in the end gave up as he just continued to stare.

Had I been in Don Muang maybe i could have been more understanding. I was actually on Soi 25 Thong Lor ( I just didn't know it) and it took me 5 minutes to walk there!!!

My expectation of the UK is that we would have a guess what the person was saying. But this is one example of several in two weeks where I have tried to ask for something in Thai and been stared at.

Yes my Thai is poor! But I am trying. And I have had this happen with my wife there who has then said the same thing and told me that she thought my pronounciation had been fine. It is very frustrating and does make me much more self concious about trying to learn the language.

I would love to know the answer as my wife can't tell me. I am certainly not having a go but trying to understand.

A soft th - THONG does sound completely different than a hard t - TONG so that is a bad example. You do need to work on your Thai seriously if you expect to be understood. You will be dealing with country bumpkins alot (in taxis) and they will have very little imagination as to what you are trying to say if it is not clear. Imagine a Chinese person going to the tiny villages in England and trying to be understood by the equivalent of an English "redneck" that has never even heard a VERY thick Asian accent before. They will not understand. Your complete lack of TONES will also make you hard to understand. I think your wife is being nice, work harder heh. But even when your Thai is clear you will still have difficulty occasionally, most of the time I'm understood instantly... but then "Billy Bob" the farmer from down south is my driver and he refuses to understand....

On topic: I have Thai staff, my biggest problem is reliablitiy. They dont see a problem with having to go away for 2 weeks to 2 months to handle some family "emergency" or fulfilling some Thai cultural obligation. I could understand once but these things pop up all year with different staff members. In the West and U.K. Im sure most employees understand that if you just pick up and leave you dont have a job when you come back. I get decent work out of them, it's just the reliablity that is hard to cope with. I've had to make a special payment for some of them, they get paid per day they SHOW UP since its obvious I cannot rely on them to follow any kind of schedule. They are low level employees so its not too big a problem (although... if they were reliable they would move up but that concept eludes them). However the main employee (after much training and some threatening of loss of job) is now VERY GOOD at sticking to his schedule, if he cannot work the schedule he lets me know in advance which is better than the others. I have big plans for him if he sticks around...... we will see.

Damian

[madjbs]

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals. My observation is that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff did as good if not better job than might have been expected from a UK based team of engineers and designers.

Great post GH, I agree with you completely. Its amazing how some people can run down the hard work of others based purely on prejudices and lack of understanding.

[meemiathai]

Excellent post Valjean, you have hit most of the cultural nails on the head. Even that last sentence, especially the bolded part (which I love btw and it took me a few years to understand how important it was to all Thais)

Listen carefully, have fun, show respect to everyone, don’t yell, allow time for chit chat, share food, and did I say: Have Fun!

Agree as well.

And it is not much different than here in HK.

And the "everything is ok thing" is funny. coz I do it all the time. The reasons are my superiors don't give a shit about what is right or wrong or what is good or bad. So for me it is only important that I get paid at the end of every month.

[meemiathai]

I've managed a team of about 25 Thais in a multi-national for about 2 ½ years. I don't think they are necessarily...

Listen carefully, have fun, show respect to everyone, don't yell, allow time for chit chat, share food, and did I say: Have Fun!

Yep. Great post.

This is how we do things at my place of work. Although, I must point out that mediocrity need not be tolerated.

The "Thai" way, I think, is great as opposed to the cold & stark "work ethic" of the western world.

This is the first time in my life that I've ever had "fun" in my job. It's also the first time in my life that my job is essentially "stress free".

Respect is both deserved & earnt in Thailand. If you do as Valjean says, you will not have any major dramas.

I hate you!

[zaza]

[palm]

Well first off I have been here for almost a year already. I basically look after a group of people that consist of 30 people. In every case there is always a motivated person and a few more unmotivated people.

Your experience is common in most countries - a few motivated, a few in the middle plodding along, and a few who are ready to move on.

The Thais I've spent time with at my GF's business are no different. Many are very hard-working and extremely reliable - others less so. Exactly the same experience I've had in Europe and America.

[meemiathai]

[mellow1]

I have been here a fortnight now and I am in the process of setting up a business and that is an eye-opener!

I had to have a medical which confirms that I don't have elephantitus, leprosy tuberculosis or dug and alcohol addiction. This was all confirmed by weighing me testing my blood pressure and listening to my heart and stomach through a stethoscope. The miracles of modern science!

The paperwork is legion, over 100 signatures which I had to repeat as they were not all identical and , it seems, this is enough to be rejected.

I think my biggest frustration is my own expectations which are based on the UK! I need to get beyond that. FOr instance the other day I got myself a bit lost. I found a cab and asked to be taken to Thong Lor Soi 21. I said this is English and Thai. But I pronounced it Thong rather than Tong. He looked at me like I was an idiot. I repeated myself a few times but in the end gave up as he just continued to stare.

Had I been in Don Muang maybe i could have been more understanding. I was actually on Soi 25 Thong Lor ( I just didn't know it) and it took me 5 minutes to walk there!!!

My expectation of the UK is that we would have a guess what the person was saying. But this is one example of several in two weeks where I have tried to ask for something in Thai and been stared at.

Yes my Thai is poor! But I am trying. And I have had this happen with my wife there who has then said the same thing and told me that she thought my pronounciation had been fine. It is very frustrating and does make me much more self concious about trying to learn the language.

I would love to know the answer as my wife can't tell me. I am certainly not having a go but trying to understand.

A soft th - THONG does sound completely different than a hard t - TONG so that is a bad example. You do need to work on your Thai seriously if you expect to be understood. You will be dealing with country bumpkins alot (in taxis) and they will have very little imagination as to what you are trying to say if it is not clear. Imagine a Chinese person going to the tiny villages in England and trying to be understood by the equivalent of an English "redneck" that has never even heard a VERY thick Asian accent before. They will not understand. Your complete lack of TONES will also make you hard to understand. I think your wife is being nice, work harder heh. But even when your Thai is clear you will still have difficulty occasionally, most of the time I'm understood instantly... but then "Billy Bob" the farmer from down south is my driver and he refuses to understand....

On topic: I have Thai staff, my biggest problem is reliablitiy. They dont see a problem with having to go away for 2 weeks to 2 months to handle some family "emergency" or fulfilling some Thai cultural obligation. I could understand once but these things pop up all year with different staff members. In the West and U.K. Im sure most employees understand that if you just pick up and leave you dont have a job when you come back. I get decent work out of them, it's just the reliablity that is hard to cope with. I've had to make a special payment for some of them, they get paid per day they SHOW UP since its obvious I cannot rely on them to follow any kind of schedule. They are low level employees so its not too big a problem (although... if they were reliable they would move up but that concept eludes them). However the main employee (after much training and some threatening of loss of job) is now VERY GOOD at sticking to his schedule, if he cannot work the schedule he lets me know in advance which is better than the others. I have big plans for him if he sticks around...... we will see.

Damian

I had the same problems with people who worked for us. I paid them once a month and upon receiving their pay, many times would be absent from work. I then started to pay them weekly,this slowed down this problem a lot. It seems to me that they would quickly spend their earnings on Saturday and Sunday, leaving them low on funds by Monday. A good incentive for showing up for work.

[WaiWai]

Here's the abstract of a study I found online :

An Exploratory Study of Communication Competence in Thai Organizations

Nongluck Sriussadaporn-Charoenngam

Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, Thailand

Fredric M. Jablin

University of Richmond, VA

What communication competence "means" may depend on the unique characteris tics of national cultures. This study sought to determine the kinds of communica tive knowledge and skills that are most associated with communicatively competent members of Thai organizations. Questionnaire data (N = 413) were collected from a cross-section of individuals working in 14 different Thai organizations concern ing their perceptions of the kinds of behaviors and forms of knowledge characteris tic of communicatively competent supervisors, subordinates, and co-workers. Among other things, results suggest that Thais who are perceived to be communicatively competent know how to avoid conflict with others; control their emotions; display respect, tactfulness, modesty, and politeness; and use appropriate pronouns in addressing others. Findings also indicate that variability may exist among types of organizations (private, public, state enterprise) with respect to the degree to which employees value particular communication competencies.

The valued characteristics tell us quite a bit about Thai values in general. Notice that Thais do not value directness or openness in communication, (many "Western"cultures do) and the concern for correct use of pronouns reflects the importance of the hierarchy and knowing one's place within it (Australians, for one, may find this uncomfortable).

This reminds us that we're taking part in intercultural relations; meaning that one must also have a sound understanding of one's own culture to have a chance at understanding the dynamics. For this reason, too, though there are many useful general observations to be made, our mileages may vary.

More anecdotes, please .

Edited November 11, 2007 by WaiWai

[WaiWai]

You can compare the values of your home culture with those of your host culture by going to

kwintessential.co.uk/intercultural-business-communication/tool.php .

[naka]

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals. My observation is that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff did as good if not better job than might have been expected from a UK based team of engineers and designers.

More topically, I believe that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff where often prevented from demostrating how good they really are by expatriate 'Managers' who consistantly claim that the Thai staff are not up to the job and need an expat to hold their hand (thereby justifying their own position in Thailand).

In one laughable exchange I had an expat manager who had been running his department for over 8 years tell me he couldn't get his Thai staff to reliably produce a spread sheet - My own staff where turning out new practices that was not only meeting an international client's requirements but being adopted as thier standard.

The three Thais working with me in Rome performed at a level that our client remarked was 'Outstanding'.

There are too many expats willing to run down the work Thais can produce and do produce - the reasoning is as I say above.

If the Thais can do the job well (and they can) then there is no need for the expat (and in the vast majority of cases I say there is not).

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Naka.

Edited November 11, 2007 by naka

[TheDon]

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals. My observation is that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff did as good if not better job than might have been expected from a UK based team of engineers and designers.

More topically, I believe that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff where often prevented from demostrating how good they really are by expatriate 'Managers' who consistantly claim that the Thai staff are not up to the job and need an expat to hold their hand (thereby justifying their own position in Thailand).

In one laughable exchange I had an expat manager who had been running his department for over 8 years tell me he couldn't get his Thai staff to reliably produce a spread sheet - My own staff where turning out new practices that was not only meeting an international client's requirements but being adopted as thier standard.

The three Thais working with me in Rome performed at a level that our client remarked was 'Outstanding'.

There are too many expats willing to run down the work Thais can produce and do produce - the reasoning is as I say above.

If the Thais can do the job well (and they can) then there is no need for the expat (and in the vast majority of cases I say there is not).

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Naka.

Im having a guess and saying guesthouse is talking about Thais that are overseas. Usually the good engineers, doctors etc will end up going overseas to increase there wages and most of them will go that way. Ofcourse there are still some good ones in Thailand.

[naka]

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals. My observation is that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff did as good if not better job than might have been expected from a UK based team of engineers and designers.

More topically, I believe that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff where often prevented from demostrating how good they really are by expatriate 'Managers' who consistantly claim that the Thai staff are not up to the job and need an expat to hold their hand (thereby justifying their own position in Thailand).

In one laughable exchange I had an expat manager who had been running his department for over 8 years tell me he couldn't get his Thai staff to reliably produce a spread sheet - My own staff where turning out new practices that was not only meeting an international client's requirements but being adopted as thier standard.

The three Thais working with me in Rome performed at a level that our client remarked was 'Outstanding'.

There are too many expats willing to run down the work Thais can produce and do produce - the reasoning is as I say above.

If the Thais can do the job well (and they can) then there is no need for the expat (and in the vast majority of cases I say there is not).

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Naka.

Im having a guess and saying guesthouse is talking about Thais that are overseas. Usually the good engineers, doctors etc will end up going overseas to increase there wages and most of them will go that way. Ofcourse there are still some good ones in Thailand.

Guesthouse said :-

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals.

Nuff said.

Naka.

[GuestHouse]

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Next time you are travelling past Sriracha, and in particular Lamchabang, take a look over towards the coast you'll see the skyline is covered with O&G + Petro-Chemical Plants.

Alternatively take a look around Rayong, the view is similar.

Would you like some examples of O&G Plants engineered and designed by teams of Thai engineers IN THAILAND that have been constructed overseas?

Not just engineering for the home market, but competing on the international market and winning work from under the nozes of not just the Yanks and Europeans, but also the Japanese and Koreans.

[naka]

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Next time you are travelling past Sriracha, and in particular Lamchabang, take a look over towards the coast you'll see the skyline is covered with O&G + Petro-Chemical Plants.

Alternatively take a look around Rayong, the view is similar.

Would you like some examples of O&G Plants engineered and designed by teams of Thai engineers IN THAILAND that have been constructed overseas?

Not just engineering for the home market, but competing on the international market and winning work from under the nozes of not just the Yanks and Europeans, but also the Japanese and Koreans.

Yes please !

Let's have the names of these world class Thai engineering companies.

Naka.

[GuestHouse]

Shell and Exxon Mobile good enough?

Good enough for me, and I'm talking from first hand experience.

Tell me your experience?

Or are you simply being negative about Thai engineers out of blind prejudice?

[howtoescape]

Yes. Very hierarchical workplaces too; where workers don't question the directives of their leaders, who are always right .

I have been speaking to a 24 yo Thai lady who has lived in England for 4 years, and works at Marks and Spencers

She absolutely loves working at M & S as a shop assistant as she can put her point across and has no fear of speaking to those in charge, when first coming across this concept thought it was wonderful. Hence if there is a problem, she will have no problem speaking to her superiors to get it resolved.

I also know a wealthy Thai lady who is setting up a business and she was speaking to one of her very important Farang workers who's knowledge is far greater then her own on a specific side to the business and she just wouldnt hear his point of view, to the point of talking him down.

Its human nature not to be happy when being totally controlled and never listened to, from my personal experience a happy worker is a more productive one.

[JimmyTheMook]

I've worked with teams of Thai engineers in Thailand on a number of large projects for major internationals. My observation is that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff did as good if not better job than might have been expected from a UK based team of engineers and designers.

More topically, I believe that the Thai engineers, designers and construction staff where often prevented from demostrating how good they really are by expatriate 'Managers' who consistantly claim that the Thai staff are not up to the job and need an expat to hold their hand (thereby justifying their own position in Thailand).

In one laughable exchange I had an expat manager who had been running his department for over 8 years tell me he couldn't get his Thai staff to reliably produce a spread sheet - My own staff where turning out new practices that was not only meeting an international client's requirements but being adopted as thier standard.

The three Thais working with me in Rome performed at a level that our client remarked was 'Outstanding'.

There are too many expats willing to run down the work Thais can produce and do produce - the reasoning is as I say above.

If the Thais can do the job well (and they can) then there is no need for the expat (and in the vast majority of cases I say there is not).

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Naka.

The new airport ?

[MEGALITHIC]

My recent experience working with Thais on an offshore construction project for PTT in the Gulf of Thailand:

THAI WELDERS: Hyundais' offshore construction division has been using Thai welders for a good number of years now - throughout Asia and the Middle East. It can be argued that it is because they're cheaper than expats however it's fairly well accepted that the skill levels' of the Thais', when it comes to welding high pressure pipelines, are amongst the best in the business.

THAI FEILD ENGINEERS: Can't really be sure if they were up to speed with alot of the work that was going on, particularly in regards to trouble shooting when things didn't go according to plan, but that may have a bit to do with the communication aspect of things - the language of offshore construction work is English (world wide).

[soundman]

Well, those that know me on this forum have read my usual bitching & moaning about Thai staff & their work ethic, so for those wanting to know more on what I have written in the past, search my old posts.

Here is a situation that has arisen over the past five days.....

I have been on the recruitment drive for the last few weeks for labour for our AV business. One prospective actually was applying for a position in our petrol station as a gas filler, we had no positions available, so the cashier suggested he try our factory.

Comes in & fills out an application form on Monday, looks OK, school grades OK, hire him on the spot to start on Wednesday.

Wednesday - no show. Comes in Thursday all eager. OK start today. Sorry, have to go and help my mother move house. Uh huh - when can you start? Tomorrow. Can I have an advance on my wages? <deleted>? No!

Comes in Friday morning - working OK 'til lunch. Can I have an advance of 60B? I'm hungry & don't have any money. OK - 60B. Doesn't come back to work in the afternoon. Comes back at 9.00pm. You're fired! Oh no..... pls can I have my job - had to help my mom..... OK last chance - come to work tomorrow & no advances until payday on the fiftenth. OK OK OK.

Sat. No show.

Sun 7.00pm - staff call me into the factory. What I ask?

That "new" staff is stealing a 20kg drum of glue. Well, <deleted>, don't just stand there, go & get it back I said. Staff off running tackle this guy to the ground just near my front gate. Unbelievable!

Situations similar to this are not isolated in Thailand. The vast majority of younger Thai's have no work ethic & simply don't want to do an honest days work for a (economically considerate) decent days wage. They all want to get paid without having to do anything in return. They feel turning up to work is optional - depending on whether they feel like it on any given day.

Finding decent labour is not easy in Thailand. All the more reason to look after the few gold nuggets you find very well.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[naka]

Shell and Exxon Mobile good enough?

Good enough for me, and I'm talking from first hand experience.

Tell me your experience?

Or are you simply being negative about Thai engineers out of blind prejudice?

Oh Dear, getting shirty, and when I was being so polite to you ... Anyway those Thai companies have names which

are remarkably similar ... nay, Identical to a couple of very large American corporations.

Anyway ... Shell, ASEA, Rio Tinto, Anglo American.

Naka.

[mrtoad]

Well, those that know me on this forum have read my usual bitching & moaning about Thai staff & their work ethic, so for those wanting to know more on what I have written in the past, search my old posts.

Here is a situation that has arisen over the past five days.....

I have been on the recruitment drive for the last few weeks for labour for our AV business. One prospective actually was applying for a position in our petrol station as a gas filler, we had no positions available, so the cashier suggested he try our factory.

Comes in & fills out an application form on Monday, looks OK, school grades OK, hire him on the spot to start on Wednesday.

Wednesday - no show. Comes in Thursday all eager. OK start today. Sorry, have to go and help my mother move house. Uh huh - when can you start? Tomorrow. Can I have an advance on my wages? <deleted>? No!

Comes in Friday morning - working OK 'til lunch. Can I have an advance of 60B? I'm hungry & don't have any money. OK - 60B. Doesn't come back to work in the afternoon. Comes back at 9.00pm. You're fired! Oh no..... pls can I have my job - had to help my mom..... OK last chance - come to work tomorrow & no advances until payday on the fiftenth. OK OK OK.

Sat. No show.

Sun 7.00pm - staff call me into the factory. What I ask?

That "new" staff is stealing a 20kg drum of glue. Well, <deleted>, don't just stand there, go & get it back I said. Staff off running tackle this guy to the ground just near my front gate. Unbelievable!

Situations similar to this are not isolated in Thailand. The vast majority of younger Thai's have no work ethic & simply don't want to do an honest days work for a (economically considerate) decent days wage. They all want to get paid without having to do anything in return. They feel turning up to work is optional - depending on whether they feel like it on any given day.

Finding decent labour is not easy in Thailand. All the more reason to look after the few gold nuggets you find very well.

Cheers,

Soundman.

Soundman,

Whilst I understand what you are saying, I would go as far to say that there is very little difference with workers in the UK these days as well. Many of the young staff believe that they have a god given right to be treated like royalty at work, and that they should be entitled to incremental rises even if there performance is poor.

In the UK I can understand the roots of the problem, too much benefit, to many things come to easy, over protective employment laws etc, etc, and they want it served on a plate. In Thailand they don't have those fall backs, or certainly a lot of people don't, so it is interesting why it is so. In the end, when you find a good employee, you make sure that you keep them by rewarding them for their performance. As for the wasters, they just need to be shown the door, quickly.

[mellow1]

Guesthouse, while I normally agree with you, I am amazed at this statement ... Where are the results of this Thai

engineering excellence you speak of ?

Next time you are travelling past Sriracha, and in particular Lamchabang, take a look over towards the coast you'll see the skyline is covered with O&G + Petro-Chemical Plants.

Alternatively take a look around Rayong, the view is similar.

Would you like some examples of O&G Plants engineered and designed by teams of Thai engineers IN THAILAND that have been constructed overseas?

Not just engineering for the home market, but competing on the international market and winning work from under the nozes of not just the Yanks and Europeans, but also the Japanese and Koreans.

Great to read about these achievements. When are they going to throw the FBA out the window, and when will they get their shit together so that I can get more than 130 Kbps., or running water, and electricity that doesn't always shut down. I'd like to see them rub the noses of the Yanks, Europeans, Japanese, Koreans,etc., should they ever allow any competition.

[WaiWai]

That "new" staff is stealing a 20kg drum of glue. Well, <deleted>, don't just stand there, go & get it back I said. Staff off running tackle this guy to the ground just near my front gate. Unbelievable!

Good grief, soundman - was he going to sniff it ??!

You should have taken pictures .

[soundman]

That "new" staff is stealing a 20kg drum of glue. Well, <deleted>, don't just stand there, go & get it back I said. Staff off running tackle this guy to the ground just near my front gate. Unbelievable!

Good grief, soundman - was he going to sniff it ??!

You should have taken pictures .

One can only hope that this is not the case.

[GuestHouse]

Having given Naka examples of international corporations that are Engineering large projects in Thailand using Thai Engineers he claims I'm being shirty

Why so.

Perhaps because I've asked him for his own personal experience of engineering projects with Thai engineers?

Great to read about these achievements. When are they going to throw the FBA out the window, and when will they get their shit together so that I can get more than 130 Kbps.,

The fact that Thai engineers can do such a great job is what prevents foreigners from getting special pay deals (read what I said about expats running down Thai engineers/staff in order to justify their own position)

If you want to earn more than 130 Kbps perhaps you should join us out here in the desert.

If your priority is not great pay and you are satisfied with cold beer and luke warm women, go to Thailand.

But do be aware the T&Cs for expats in Thailand are steadily being eroded, in part because guys will take any deal (no matter how poor) to stay there and in part because the employers are realizing that the Thais can do just as good a job for a fraction of the price.

[TheDon]

Guesthouse, Ive notice you have changed over the years regarding your posts. Did you just excape death or something???

[soundman]

Having given Naka examples of international corporations that are Engineering large projects in Thailand using Thai Engineers he claims I'm being shirty

Why so.

Perhaps because I've asked him for his own personal experience of engineering projects with Thai engineers?

Great to read about these achievements. When are they going to throw the FBA out the window, and when will they get their shit together so that I can get more than 130 Kbps.,

The fact that Thai engineers can do such a great job is what prevents foreigners from getting special pay deals (read what I said about expats running down Thai engineers/staff in order to justify their own position)

If you want to earn more than 130 Kbps perhaps you should join us out here in the desert.

If your priority is not great pay and you are satisfied with cold beer and luke warm women, go to Thailand.

But do be aware the T&Cs for expats in Thailand are steadily being eroded, in part because guys will take any deal (no matter how poor) to stay there and in part because the employers are realizing that the Thais can do just as good a job for a fraction of the price.

I don't know about you guys, & I may be wrong, but I read the post about 130 Kbps as a cynical reference to a useless broadband network and connection speeds..

Cheers.

[luangpohbill]

I have been here a fortnight now and I am in the process of setting up a business and that is an eye-opener!

I had to have a medical which confirms that I don't have elephantitus, leprosy tuberculosis or dug and alcohol addiction. This was all confirmed by weighing me testing my blood pressure and listening to my heart and stomach through a stethoscope. The miracles of modern science!

The paperwork is legion, over 100 signatures which I had to repeat as they were not all identical and , it seems, this is enough to be rejected.

I think my biggest frustration is my own expectations which are based on the UK! I need to get beyond that. FOr instance the other day I got myself a bit lost. I found a cab and asked to be taken to Thong Lor Soi 21. I said this is English and Thai. But I pronounced it Thong rather than Tong. He looked at me like I was an idiot. I repeated myself a few times but in the end gave up as he just continued to stare.

Had I been in Don Muang maybe i could have been more understanding. I was actually on Soi 25 Thong Lor ( I just didn't know it) and it took me 5 minutes to walk there!!!

My expectation of the UK is that we would have a guess what the person was saying. But this is one example of several in two weeks where I have tried to ask for something in Thai and been stared at.

Yes my Thai is poor! But I am trying. And I have had this happen with my wife there who has then said the same thing and told me that she thought my pronounciation had been fine. It is very frustrating and does make me much more self concious about trying to learn the language.

I would love to know the answer as my wife can't tell me. I am certainly not having a go but trying to understand.

What you have said, rings true as it has happened to me on numerous occasions. I am not particularly excellent at Thai, but can string a few sentences together, and for basic instrustions like directions and explaining where I want to go to, I have no problem. My feeling is that often, the Taxi drivers just don't listen to what you are saying, they see a Farang and don't expect them to speak any Thai, hence the reason that you have to repeat the same thing several times.

As regards the paperwork, the paper trail that they have for everything is just a way of creating jobs.

Don't worry too much, the longer you're here, the less that it will bother you, just go with the flow.

mrtoad, I think you are right on with this answer. Most Thai's don't expect to hear Thai coming out of the mouth of the farang, so even though your pronounciation maybe be off, they just don't expect farangs speaking Thai, so basically don't hear you. Or else they don't want to admit they understand you, as that would cause them to lose face because you speak Thai and they can't speak English.??????