Why College Is So Easy....

[Ski_Goong]

I just had a talk with one of my student who informed me, with a smile, that she just got 52% on her test. I asked her why she was happy and her reply was "because I passed!". Ok....maybe it's me but 52% out of a 100 is not passing in my book. She then showed me the grading system:

The following are all "PASSING" grades....

30-39=D

40-49=D+

50-69=C <<< what the??

70-74=C+

75-79=B

80-84=B+

85-100=A

Now I know why the "average" Thai college graduate is not very "smart". They can score in the low 30s and still get a degree!

Any thoughts?

Ski (Ajarn)

[Ijustwannateach]

It's shameful, but at least there's a possibility of failing. In most high schools, it is impossible for students to be failed now (and passing is still at the 50% mark!)

[withnail]

What is considered a passing grade varies dramatically from country to country and also depends on what subject you are studying. In the states you tend to have to get around 70% or upwards to pass yet on the other hand Americans I've talked to tend to say that at school they would be upset if they tried hard and didn't get an A grade.

When I went to college in the UK 40% was a D pass, 50% a C, 60% a B and 70% or above an A. However, C was considered average and to get 70% on a paper you had to produce something nearly worthy of being published. American students actually came to study at my University on an exchange program and for every paper they handed in or exam they took they were given a free 10% so as when they returned to the states they didn't look stupid.

Even where I come from in the UK though it differs; If you are studying a science the required pass rate would be higher than if you were studying an art. It's difficult to say that an essay is perfect but if you are doing maths it's either right or wrong.

Whether the exam in question was difficult or not I can't tell, but as far as I'm concerned this method allows for far greater accuracy than a system that grades higher but where the majority of the class gets a B or above. I also think it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say the average college graduate in Thailand is not very smart.

[PeaceBlondie]

The opening post and its title refers to 'college' and appears to refer to a Thai university, graduate, and degree. Perhaps this problem illustrates why some people outside of Thailand place such a low value on most Thai bachelor's degrees.

But of course, it all depends on the test (or the scoring system for essays). I've seen Thai tests where even a perfect genius could not get better than 85% because 15% of the 'correct' answers were wrong.

[Loaded]

The opening post and its title refers to 'college' and appears to refer to a Thai university, graduate, and degree. Perhaps this problem illustrates why some people outside of Thailand place such a low value on most Thai bachelor's degrees.

But of course, it all depends on the test (or the scoring system for essays). I've seen Thai tests where even a perfect genius could not get better than 85% because 15% of the 'correct' answers were wrong.

Ah! but if you were a genius, you would anticipate what the Thai brain considers as correct.

For example:

Choose the correct response:

A. go to shopping yesterday

B. going to shopping yesterday

C. go shop yesterday

D. went shopping

"well it can't be 'D' because that was the answer for the previous question. It can't be 'C' because you always need 'iNG' with 'shop'. So 'A' or 'B'? 'A' was the first letter of the man who was shot outside the karaoke last night so 'A' must be the correct response."

Not at all difficult if you know what he talk me about!

Edited November 12, 2007 by Loaded

[Ski_Goong]

The opening post and its title refers to 'college' and appears to refer to a Thai university, graduate, and degree. Perhaps this problem illustrates why some people outside of Thailand place such a low value on most Thai bachelor's degrees.

But of course, it all depends on the test (or the scoring system for essays). I've seen Thai tests where even a perfect genius could not get better than 85% because 15% of the 'correct' answers were wrong.

Ah! but if you were a genius, you would anticipate what the Thai brain considers as correct.

For example:

Choose the correct response:

A. go to shopping yesterday

B. going to shopping yesterday

C. go shop yesterday

D. went shopping

"well it can't be 'D' because that was the answer for the previous question. It can't be 'C' because you always need 'iNG' with 'shop'. So 'A' or 'B'? 'A' was the first letter of the man who was shot outside the karaoke last night so 'A' must be the correct response."

Not at all difficult if you know what he talk me about!

The test in question was not an essay. It was a rather simple 100 questions "fill in the blanks"/multiple choice test. Anyone believing that a student who only gets 30 percent correct and not fail should change the "color" of their glasses.

The more exposure I get of the local college students the more worried I am about Thailand's future. I hope by setting a higher standard and exposing my students to other/different ideas, some of them with rise above "average" or at least try to.

P.S..it can't be "D" because there is no "Go"

Ski....(Ajarn)

[Scott]

As previously mentioned, there is a great deal of difference in grading systems from country to country.

Sadly, Thailand can be very pedantic about the % score and how it was derived, while at the same time insisting that everyone get a 50%. (OK, some places don't make you give them a 50%, they just make you keep giving them retests until they get a 50%).

I also know college (university) graduates who got the equivalent of a "D" in a subject and when asked why, it was because they never went--but they did pay for the course.

Grading systems are difficult, although by University level, they should be fairly straightforward. For example, with young learners, I am very reluctant to give them low scores if there is any hint of learning going on or effort at learning, since different areas of language development improve at different rates.

[withnail]

Whether the test was easy, littered with mistakes or marked by the student's parents are all separate issues.

The grading system I still think is perfectly acceptable and nothing really to do with it.

On the topic of multiple choice tests, whilst I don't like them for a number of reasons they are not necessarily easy.

[southerndog]

LOL at anyone playing devils advocate for the thai school system.. It's all a joke. the ones who succeed do it in spite of the system.

[paulfr]

The more exposure I get of the local college students the more worried I am about Thailand's future. I hope by setting a higher standard and exposing my students to other/different ideas, some of them with rise above "average" or at least try to.

Ski....(Ajarn)

I teach Math here and I would strongly advise you NOT to be of a mindset to "change" Thailand.

While noble in spirit, it is a foolish goal for your time and energy.

You can influence individual students to higher standards on occasion, but

Thailand has done fine before "The Farangs" got here and they will do fine

long after we [indivually] are gone.

[Loaded]

The more exposure I get of the local college students the more worried I am about Thailand's future. I hope by setting a higher standard and exposing my students to other/different ideas, some of them with rise above "average" or at least try to.

Ski....(Ajarn)

I teach Math here and I would strongly advise you NOT to be of a mindset to "change" Thailand.

While noble in spirit, it is a foolish goal for your time and energy.

You can influence individual students to higher standards on occasion, but

Thailand has done fine before "The Farangs" got here and they will do fine

long after we [indivually] are gone.

Watching Sarayud on TV this morning there was a report about how Thailand has dropped way down the World Bank's Economic Indices while Vietnam, China and even Indonesia have shot up. GDP growth last year was 4.3% and predicetd to rise to 4.6% next year. Worryingly low for a 'developing' country. Thailand is waking up to the fact the rest of Asia (especially China and Vietnam) is replacing it's traditional role of exporter of car parts, electronic components for Nip and Korean companies, and women but Thailand doesn't know how to react. There's never been a capable leadership that can plan the economy and an education system that produces workers relevant to the economy. How many Mass Communication students have you met? I've met thousands. Completely irrelevant studies to the need Thailand has now to catch up with the rest of Asia.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Loaded

[Ski_Goong]

Talked to a student today who had a failing grade on a test. After the student "talked" to her teacher, she now has a "passing" grade. I wonder, why even bother to "test" them if you can not "fail" them?

Anyhow, I'm not trying to change Thailand. I just want to make a difference in someone's life and/or future. These kids won't go far if they have a "degree" but no "smarts". But I guess if I were to get paid 7000 baht per month with a degree as oppose to 6000 baht a month without a degree-I wouldn't take "learning" seriously either. Oh well....

Ski...(Ajarn)

[mbkudu]

There's never been a capable leadership that can plan the economy and an education system that produces workers relevant to the economy.

There was a capable leadership, but that leadership was unceremoniously asked to exit his job and his country.

[Ijustwannateach]

Not to spin us off further into an unproductive and off-topic political discussion, but I was working within the Thai educational system during the tenures of the previous political administration and the current one. Under the previous administration, there were something like 4-5 different Ministers within a 2-3 year period; under the current administration there has been more stability. Under neither administration were any of the serious and obvious problems I noted upon starting work in Thailand addressed in any way that mattered. As far as I'm concerned it's been 6 of one and a half-dozen of the other. And now, back to the topic of Thai colleges.

[trader1]

At my Thai University lecturers are not permitted to give a class average higher than 2.8 GPA. An A is a rare grade.

[B Fuddled]

There's never been a capable leadership that can plan the economy and an education system that produces workers relevant to the economy.

There was a capable leadership, but that leadership was unceremoniously asked to exit his job and his country.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't that same capable leader undertake the education portfolio in his first months in office, until he was unceremoniously asked to exit within a few short months by the old guard in the MoE?

Edited November 16, 2007 by B Fuddled

[Ski_Goong]

At my Thai University lecturers are not permitted to give a class average higher than 2.8 GPA. An A is a rare grade.

I think lectures is a little different than a multiple choice test. If a several or all of the students score 100% than all would/should receive an "A". Granted, if they all did that than it must mean the test was too easy.

Ski....(Ajarn)

"trying to keep on topic....I hate politics"

[PeaceBlondie]

I think I'll start a separate topic here about "How Much Difference Can a Foreign Teacher Make Here?"

ThaiVisa has more than enough places outside the Teaching Forum for political discussions.

[Flow]

What is considered a passing grade varies dramatically from country to country and also depends on what subject you are studying. In the states you tend to have to get around 70% or upwards to pass yet on the other hand Americans I've talked to tend to say that at school they would be upset if they tried hard and didn't get an A grade.

When I went to college in the UK 40% was a D pass, 50% a C, 60% a B and 70% or above an A. However, C was considered average and to get 70% on a paper you had to produce something nearly worthy of being published. American students actually came to study at my University on an exchange program and for every paper they handed in or exam they took they were given a free 10% so as when they returned to the states they didn't look stupid.

Even where I come from in the UK though it differs; If you are studying a science the required pass rate would be higher than if you were studying an art. It's difficult to say that an essay is perfect but if you are doing maths it's either right or wrong.

Whether the exam in question was difficult or not I can't tell, but as far as I'm concerned this method allows for far greater accuracy than a system that grades higher but where the majority of the class gets a B or above. I also think it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say the average college graduate in Thailand is not very smart.

Excellent post. I hope the OP learns a thing or two from it.

[Ski_Goong]

What is considered a passing grade varies dramatically from country to country and also depends on what subject you are studying. In the states you tend to have to get around 70% or upwards to pass yet on the other hand Americans I've talked to tend to say that at school they would be upset if they tried hard and didn't get an A grade.

When I went to college in the UK 40% was a D pass, 50% a C, 60% a B and 70% or above an A. However, C was considered average and to get 70% on a paper you had to produce something nearly worthy of being published. American students actually came to study at my University on an exchange program and for every paper they handed in or exam they took they were given a free 10% so as when they returned to the states they didn't look stupid.

Even where I come from in the UK though it differs; If you are studying a science the required pass rate would be higher than if you were studying an art. It's difficult to say that an essay is perfect but if you are doing maths it's either right or wrong.

Whether the exam in question was difficult or not I can't tell, but as far as I'm concerned this method allows for far greater accuracy than a system that grades higher but where the majority of the class gets a B or above. I also think it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say the average college graduate in Thailand is not very smart.

Excellent post. I hope the OP learns a thing or two from it.

Yup...learned a lot from that post. Learn how people will try to be PC and kiss a$$ to sound good. No need for that here. Again, if you feel a Thai student with a 30 % average is fine than I hope you will have the chance to hire all of them to work for your company.

I think it's rather naive to say that American students were given an extra 10% on their grade so they wouldn't fell stupid.

Ski...(Ajarn)