What Do You Mean By "paying For It"?

[DamianMavis]

Ok, more and more I see men on here claiming that they all have to pay for sex in this country. And young men respond with "you must be fat, old and ugly because I don't pay anything". Now, I'm starting to think you guys mean a whole different kind of paying? Not the instant monetary kind but maybe pay with your time? Heart? Support? Hairline (stress)?! So what do you guys mean exactly? Because like some of the guys here... I don't pay women to like me, they just do or they don't. So.... what do you guys mean? If you mean heart... yes I can see that, eventually a woman gets close enough to me that I pay with my heart, which leaves me susceptible to heart break, which is a form of "paying in the end" with alot of pain and stress in the event of a betrayal or breakup. Or perhaps pay financially the way any man does with a wife or woman that is becoming family? Long term most women will cost something monetarily unless you hook up with a woman as successful or more so than you right? I mean if you live together, maybe you pay the rent and buy all the food? And dating costs money right? If you see a woman for 5 months and all you do is have sex and go to dinner and movies well you are paying for the dinner and movies right? Is that also something you guys mean? Seriously I am interested in what most of you refer to.

Damian

Edited November 13, 2007 by DamianMavis

[Dissolution]

I'm paying for it with (not exhaustive list):

Money (Agreed to split for rental/utilities/meals/etc., but paying all of it.)

Heart (Self-explanatory)

Soul (Slowly losing myself giving in when she blows up)

and so on and so forth.

[Cobalt60]

Now then, if you think about it for long enough, no matter what relationship you are in or with what or whom, we all 'pay for it' some way or another.

Someone once put it to me that it was a more honest transaction and less costly, if you paid cash on demand.

[Tilokarat]

By paying for it, do you mean the way that the Toronto Maple Leafs visit the Ottawa Senators, or the By-towners pay a visit to Hogtown, and the Leafs get clobbered every time, except when it really counts, in the playoffs? I suppose we could include the Ottawa Roughriders and their many beatings of the Toronto Argonauts as a metaphor for the fate of many farangs and their bank accounts in their relationship with Thai ladies.

I do not pay for sex; however, I am in a relationship in which I have been known to take the Thai term, 'naam-jai' (generosity), to its logical conclusion. This includes taking relatives and close acquaintances of my friend to dinner, on tour, to movies and, of course, the inevitable trips to go shopping, shopping, shopping.

I am old, have a receding hairline, and not very pleasant to look at, but I remain slim, and can still play baseball and Canadian football (touch, not tackle).

As an aside, and only slightly off-topic, for those fans of real North American football, it is Winnipeg Blue Bombers vs. Toronto Argonauts, and Saskatchewan Roughriders vs. British Columbia Lions in the eastern and western finals this weekend. The winners play for Earl Grey's mug, the Grey Cup, the following Sunday for the championship of the Dominion. Sad to say that Ottawa did not compete for the Cup this year, and the loyal fans of the Rough Riders have moved on to greener pastures in places such as Thailand.

[DavidOxon]

all those guys who list x thousand baht in the 'entertainment' section of their budgets

when showing how you need x zillion baht a month to scrape by in Thailand

are paying for it.

i was amazed on looking on the tefl site (can't remember the name)

but some head teacher of an English school in BKK had down 30k baht a month as 'entertainment'

From what I've gleaned from this site, that's 30 nights with a prostitute

@ 1000 baht per night, and he posts it. . . ok that leaves him with 5 nights a year alone

(or 24 nights with 2 if you use the Thai 48 weeks in a year calender)

Here in the UK being with a prostitute ISN'T something you brag about

let alone budget into your monthly cash flow and post on a web forum!. . . what ever next? Will they be

claiming it as a deduction against income tax!!! Or maybe . . . no I've not drunk enough to

post the rest of my diatribe!

Chac un a son gout . . . each to his own . . .

Good night one and all

David

Edited November 13, 2007 by DavidOxon

[Pepe']

all those guys who list x thousand baht in the 'entertainment' section of their budgets

when showing how you need x zillion baht a month to scrape by in Thailand

are paying for it.

i was amazed on looking on the tefl site (can't remember the name)

but some head teacher of an English school in BKK had down 30k baht a month as 'entertainment'

From what I've gleaned from this site, that's 30 nights with a prostitute

@ 1000 baht per night, and he posts it. . . ok that leaves him with 5 nights a year alone

(or 24 nights with 2 if you use the Thai 48 weeks in a year calender)

Here in the UK being with a prostitute ISN'T something you brag about

let alone budget into your monthly cash flow and post on a web forum!. . . what ever next? Will they be

claiming it as a deduction against income tax!!! Or maybe . . . no I've not drunk enough to

post the rest of my diatribe!

Chac un a son gout . . . each to his own . . .

Good night one and all

David

---------------------------

Prostitutes have been and integral part of Asian culture for thousands of years.

Centuries ago they were considered "angels of mercy" and were respected by everyone.

Business was conducted at the brothels and it was considered the in place to network and mix business with pleasure.

Christ protected the prostitute Mary when the mob was about to stone her.

He said, "He who is among you without sin cast the first stone"

Christ would sure be busy on TV.

"The only thing more expensive than p-ssy that you pay for is free p-ssy" -Charlie Sheen...

[jetjock]

In any countries that have onerous divorce laws like the US and some other western countries , marriage has become a form of legalized prostitution ( male or female depending on who has the most money). Assuming no children in the following scenarios, if you just live with a girl roomate for 10 years and then decide to break up, all you have to do is take your personal stuff and she takes her personal stuff however if you sleep with your roomate for ten years or are married to her for ten years, then you are subject to the common law marriage, palimony or divorce laws which usually means that the one with the most has to divide all their current personal assets and in many cases much of their future money like retirement plans. The only major difference between the above scenerios is 'SEX' so if paying for sex is prostitution then IMHO marriage can qualify as such. I guess that is why I am a big fan of legal premarital agreements since it elevates marriage to a higher status by making sure people are in it for the right reasons.

[Pepe']

In any countries that have onerous divorce laws like the US and some other western countries , marriage has become a form of legalized prostitution ( male or female depending on who has the most money). Assuming no children in the following scenarios, if you just live with a girl roomate for 10 years and then decide to break up, all you have to do is take your personal stuff and she takes her personal stuff however if you sleep with your roomate for ten years or are married to her for ten years, then you are subject to the common law marriage, palimony or divorce laws which usually means that the one with the most has to divide all their current personal assets and in many cases much of their future money like retirement plans. The only major difference between the above scenerios is 'SEX' so if paying for sex is prostitution then IMHO marriage can qualify as such. I guess that is why I am a big fan of legal premarital agreements since it elevates marriage to a higher status by making sure people are in it for the right reasons.

---------------------

"From your mouth to God's ear"

[thaiclan]

The only major difference between the above scenerios is 'SEX' so if paying for sex is prostitution then IMHO marriage can qualify as such. I guess that is why I am a big fan of legal premarital agreements since it elevates marriage to a higher status by making sure people are in it for the right reasons.

If the ONLY difference you can see in having a room mate for 10 years or having a relationship with someone for 10 years is the sex then relationships/marriage/partnerships are obviously not your thing! You better get advertising for lodgers and obtain a Lifetime membership at the local brothel...hahaha

Pre-nups don't work at all well in the UK once you have children. Children have a "human Right" and this overrides any pre-nup that was taken out prior to marriage, must be the same in the EU to I should suppose.

I personally don't agree with marriage. I don't think we were designed for just one life-time partner, but society definitely prefers that system!

[surface]

I'm sure when 99% of people here say "paying for it" they mean bar girl. If they don't, the context is usually made quite clear. I think I've seen you post that you have gf's and don't pay for it in several threads, pretty much bragging that you don't pay (though that is nothing to brag about in a developing country), so I'm really starting to wonder why you bring this up so much.

With that out of my system, I have a girlfriend at the moment, and being in a relationship in Thailand has always cost me more over a month, year, whatever, than if I was just having one night stands or paying for bar girls. Since my gf makes about 13k a month, how can I expect her to come out with me, while I live the lifestyle I want at the moment, without treating her? I can spend 15-20k a week on restaurants, movies, pool/snooker, bars, discos, taxis, shopping, etc. When she's with me, most of my costs double. This adds up to a lot more than a one night stand (just the cost of me going out), or a bar girl (1 - 2k). I suppose if you're the type that likes to stay home all day and eat 30 baht meals or cook your own meals, then a gf won't cost much.

[Ulysses G.]

I pay cash.

[kat]

dunno, maybe it means paying for their mistakes

[GreenShone]

I have to sit, watch and pretend to enjoy the meal while the waitresses flirt and give dirty looks to my date!

Great!

[villagefarang]

My experience spans my young attractive 20s to my mid 40s when I finally married. On the whole if you live here long enough the whole western mentality about "paying for it" becomes less of an issue.

I don't feel there is any real standard as it all depends on what assets the man has (looks, age, money, status, etc...) and what kind of girl he is trying to get close to.

Personally speaking the cost varied considerably, but if a girl was giving up, what could be seen as her main asset, then I felt a sense of obligation to be there when she was in need. A lot depended on how good looking and in demand a girl was. If she was "hot" and had a lot of suitors, be they Thai or foreign, then the approach and obligations were different to someone at the other end of the social ladder.

Sometimes one paid by listening to her tearful or longwinded stories. Perhaps listening to complaints about her parents, the husband or sugar-daddy. Often it meant adjusting my schedule so she could get home to help mother cook dinner, thus diverting any suspicion about what she might have been up to in the afternoon. Sometimes it meant helping out at some later date with rent or medical expenses, etc...

As I explored Thai women at all levels of society it was not possible to have any hard and fast rules about money. Sometimes "flash" was required in the form of clothes, car, lifestyle, language and manors. Sometimes secrecy was necessary and sometimes cash on delivery.

As an afterthought, I would like to mention that Thai prostitutes in my day had a valuable marketing point. They were selling the "illusion of romance". They could make the uninitiated feel like he was the only man in her life. Often the money was an afterthought. A gift of appreciation that was not demanded upfront.

[villagefarang]

I'm sure when 99% of people here say "paying for it" they mean bar girl. If they don't, the context is usually made quite clear. I think I've seen you post that you have gf's and don't pay for it in several threads, pretty much bragging that you don't pay (though that is nothing to brag about in a developing country), so I'm really starting to wonder why you bring this up so much.

With that out of my system, I have a girlfriend at the moment, and being in a relationship in Thailand has always cost me more over a month, year, whatever, than if I was just having one night stands or paying for bar girls. Since my gf makes about 13k a month, how can I expect her to come out with me, while I live the lifestyle I want at the moment, without treating her? I can spend 15-20k a week on restaurants, movies, pool/snooker, bars, discos, taxis, shopping, etc. When she's with me, most of my costs double. This adds up to a lot more than a one night stand (just the cost of me going out), or a bar girl (1 - 2k). I suppose if you're the type that likes to stay home all day and eat 30 baht meals or cook your own meals, then a gf won't cost much.

My calculator worked like this for per unit cost.

Cheapest = Rent

Little higher unit cost = girlfriend

High unit cost = live-in girlfriend

Higher unit cost = married

Highest per unit cost = divorced (still paying but no more units, so to speak.)

[seonai]

Hey Damian I am starting to respect you

[naka]

Guess the local girls are like anyone else in the world (male or female), variety is the spice of life.

She may have a fling with a poor young farang stud, but get bored of the less than luxurious lifestyle.

She may begin to crave the five star treatment she received when she was going out with Uncle John.

Riding in the Beemer, living in the Emporium Suites and nights out at the best clubs ... being seen.

There again, she might just get fed up with the boring conversations she has with her farang freinds

and go back to her unemployed Thai ex-boyfriend, who knew what buttons to push and made her laugh.

Naka.

Edited November 14, 2007 by naka

[GuestHouse]

While standing in a queue at a cafe in Italy my wife and I where chatting in Thai, a woman in front of us, a total stranger, turned out to also be Thai, turned to speak to my wife.

Question 1. You are Thai?

Question 2. Is he Italian?

Question 3. Do you live here or are you on holiday?

Quesiton 4. How much money does he give you?

And as my wife relates, this is not the first time that she has been asked this quesiton. She tells me she is asked the same quesiton by almost every Thai woman she knows who is married to a foreigner.

Almost - the people who don't ask are the people who did not start their relationship with a financial transaction.

But let's not fudge the issue. Sharing the costs of life, and the child care and all the other load to be shared by a couple making their way through life together is not the same thing as buying a relationsip.

But you know I can understand the thinking of the women in these 'cash' relationships, I just don't understand the thinking of the men?

------

Pepe. Your account of the history of Prostitutes is at odds with the historical record. Or at least you are being extremely selective in your refernces.

[markwhite]

Some people will maintain that whatever the nature of the relationship, something is given for something that is got, be that money, shelter, food, gifts on the material side, or giving of themselves by way of love, emotional support and suchlike.

Others believe that was is given is given truly, with no strings attached, no expectations of the other person in a loving and altruistic way.

Most people are probably somewhere between these two extremes, and move closer or further from one or the other depending on what's happening in their lives and how they feel about it.

[NanLaew]

I see that Damian woke up in touch with his feminine side this morning. Don't let it go to your head.

I reckon looking at it from a certain blinkered western viewpoint, we are all despicable whoremongers. However, it all seems to be horribly based on placing a monetary value on sharing your life with someone and if you subscribe to that, you have missed the plot. Where's the satisfaction and what is the point of adding a $ (or baht) value on a great dinner with family, a day out with the kids or a quiet evening at home with a bottle of plonk and a DVD?

Can you imagine, "Sorry darling, I have to wind this lovely day at the beach up a bit early as it has exceeded the [insert monetary value here] allocation for 'special times' for this week."

Spot on post from Tilokarat. Ahhh Grasshopper, maybe when 'naam-jai' is in the western lexicon, then it will all be easier to understand.

[villagefarang]

"Long term most women will cost something monetarily unless you hook up with a woman as successful or more so than you right?"

I have always found this to be a false hypothesis. Just because a girl has or comes from money doesn't mean she wants to give it away without any thought of what she is getting in return. Usually it costs more to be with that kind of girl. That is not considering the other costs of getting involved with a rich Thai family and the kind of control they will enforce upon you.

[kat]

While standing in a queue at a cafe in Italy my wife and I where chatting in Thai, a woman in front of us, a total stranger, turned out to also be Thai, turned to speak to my wife.

Question 1. You are Thai?

Question 2. Is he Italian?

Question 3. Do you live here or are you on holiday?

Quesiton 4. How much money does he give you?

And as my wife relates, this is not the first time that she has been asked this quesiton. She tells me she is asked the same quesiton by almost every Thai woman she knows who is married to a foreigner.

Almost - the people who don't ask are the people who did not start their relationship with a financial transaction.

But let's not fudge the issue. Sharing the costs of life, and the child care and all the other load to be shared by a couple making their way through life together is not the same thing as buying a relationsip.

But you know I can understand the thinking of the women in these 'cash' relationships, I just don't understand the thinking of the men?

------

Pepe. Your account of the history of Prostitutes is at odds with the historical record. Or at least you are being extremely selective in your refernces.

You hit the target so well that it saves me the time and effort to post. Excellent!

[backflip]

"Prostitutes have been and integral part of Asian culture for thousands of years."

I guess you'd be OK with your wife and daughter working as prostitutes.

[a2396]

I have not met ANY woman in Thailand, who was interested in a relationship with me, that did not expect or demand money. These were not hookers or bargirls, but they expect that the Farang has plenty of money to spread around for their and/or their family's monthly support. I am talking about the situation when living in Thailand, not overseas in another country. That's a completely different ball game. If you are a Farang living in Thailand & getting it for free, you must be one georgeous stud. I don't know any Farang's here, of my personal aquaintence, who are not hit up for money on a regular basis, if they have a relationship with a local lady.

[TonyLeung]

"I have not met ANY woman in Thailand, who was interested in a relationship with me, that did not expect or demand money."

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and try to figure out why this is.

[kat]

No, they're young. But, in those cases, from what I've seen, the young guys have discovered that she was getting money from other hide-a-ways.

*These have all been the average relationships, though, of meeting in LOS and having nothing else in common.

Edited November 14, 2007 by kat

[ThaidleHands]

"Prostitutes have been and integral part of Asian culture for thousands of years."

I guess you'd be OK with your wife and daughter working as prostitutes.

I can't speak for the poster you're challenging, but the facts tend to show that tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of Thai parents, boyfriends and husbands are more or less OK with it.

[a2396]

"I have not met ANY woman in Thailand, who was interested in a relationship with me, that did not expect or demand money."

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror and try to figure out why this is.

It seems that ALL the other Farangs I know in Thailand should also look in the mirror, because they are in the same situation. I don't know ANY Farangs of my personal aquaintence who go for free. If you are claiming that you don't give Thai ladies any money & you have a close relationship with them, I would like to know your secret.

[chuck6660]

I have not met ANY woman in Thailand, who was interested in a relationship with me, that did not expect or demand money. These were not hookers or bargirls, but they expect that the Farang has plenty of money to spread around for their and/or their family's monthly support. I am talking about the situation when living in Thailand, not overseas in another country. That's a completely different ball game. If you are a Farang living in Thailand & getting it for free, you must be one georgeous stud. I don't know any Farang's here, of my personal aquaintence, who are not hit up for money on a regular basis, if they have a relationship with a local lady.

It's the same anywhere you look!

Let's be honest...Men go into a relationship looking for SEX and companionship (I dare anyone to deny this); women are primarily looking for security, someone to take care of them$$$$ or emotional support.

In days of old, women looked for a man to feed and protect themselves and their children. Same same today, only it's $$$ not brute strength and hunting ability!!! Most bargirls are looking for "Mr. Right ", to marry!$$$$

[sbk]

These topics always go this way, it seems.

In fact, I do know several Thai women with foreign husbands who did NOT marry a foreigner for money. These women have assets of their own and, astoundingly enough, seem to have married these men because they love them. Amazing that can happen, even in Thailand.

What I find interesting is the entirely male perspective on relationships, as if they are all somehow transactions with the man giving a disproportionate amount of whatever (himself, his money etc). I wonder how many of these guys actually stop to think about what their wife/girlfriend does for them? Or that perhaps we do things for each other in a relationship because we love the other person and like to see them happy?

Not saying all Thai/Farang relationships are not financial transactions, what I am saying is that most certainly not all of them are. And if you continue to view your relationship for what you can get out of it, or what it offers you then you are bound to attract someone who behaves the same. A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. You get what you give.