Thai nationality

[babababor]

My daughter now 18 and living in Thailand was born in the UK to a Thai mother and British father.

By right she is entitled to Thai Nationality, but the Thai foreign office have been giving her the runaround for the past year.

Their information varies depending on which officer one speaks to, but none are prepared to take any action.

The story is that a Birth certificate has to be obtained from the Thai Embassy in London - IN PERSON -  with her Mother accompanying her. Another Officer said the birth certificate could be arranged in Bangkok, but could not advise how it couuld be done

They subsequently say that having obtaines a birth certificate, a Thai passport is necessary, also having to be obtained in person in London, and then for my daughter to enter Thailand on this new pasport.

Does anyone have any specific information as to the correct procedure

Many thanks

Nick

[Thetyim]

I cannot help you with the correct proceedure but I can say that I was in the same situation as you with my son and we went to the Thai embassy in London and got a Thai birth certificate for him very easily.

[babababor]

I want to avoid having to return to the UK with my daughter. Is it possible to make application from within Thailand?

Nick

[Thetyim]

I am not qualified to advise on this but my thoughts are :

"Officer said the birth certificate could be arranged in Bangkok, but could not advise how it could be done"

That is thai for a bribe will be needed.

" a Thai passport is necessary, also having to be obtained in person in London"

If she has a thai birth certificate then surely a passport can be issued here.  You then will have to stamp her out of the country on her UK passport and re-enter on her thai one.

[samran]

My 2 cents worth.....

I am Dual Thai/Australian. Born in OZ to Thai mum and Aussie Dad. I now live in Thailand and work for the Thai government.

My Thai birth certificate was issued in Australia and I do all my paper work (ie passport application, renewal etc) through the Thai embassy in Canberra. It is just easier than having to deal with the Thai bureacracy who don't have the processes in place to deal with your daughters scenario.

Embassy's abroad understand how to deal with foreign born Thai nationals, and more importantly, know the right channels on how to get passports issued. The also know exactly who is and isn't eligible for Thai nationality. Officals here may not know that.

Once you are in the "system" then it is easy enough to renew things while in thailand, but I suggest you initally apply for the Thai passport in the UK, and then have your daughter enter Thailand on her new Thai passport.

One thing you should remember, it takes a couple of months to get a new Thai passport from overseas. It took me 3 months, but I got it. This sounds like a long time, a mate of mine who is Australian and eligable for an Irish passport through his Grandmother had to wait a year for his passport application to be processed through the Irish embassy in Australia.

I have recently renewed my Thai passport at the Canberra embassy and it took me 2 weeks to do, via express mail to and from Thailand.

I also suggest that your daughter goes to the embassy with her mum to get her birth certificate. Above anything else, it helps put a face to the name for the officals working there. Most of the embassy admin staff are permanent, so next time your daughter needs something through them, odds are they will know her and will be able to help her much more quickly than they would with a person just off the street. Typically Thai I guess......

Another point to note, I disagree with the previous mail about a bribe. You are getting the run around in Thailand as 99.99% officials don't know the process of handeling your daughters case. Thats is because, to my knowledge, there isn't one. And having worked for the Thai govt for 2.5 years, that is not suprising. They don't have a lot of processes in place for many things. Just the way it is.

Moral: Thai embassy in the UK is your best and fastest option.

Cheers

[babababor]

Many thanks Samran

What I am trying to avoid is the need for my daughter to go to England.

Would a postal application for the birth certificate be permissible, do you know

Nick

[samran]

Hi Nick,

It wouldn't hurt to ring the Thai embassy in London, explain the situation (ie unable to travel) and then ask them what documentation they would need.

I am guessing they will need your daughters UK birth certificate to prove who the parents are, your paperwork including marriage certificate to your wife, and your wifes details (including any and all Thai ID she has - House reg, ID card, birth certificate). More paper for them to look at the better.  

The best site on all this stuff is actually the Thai embassy in washington DC. They have a pretty informative website. Go to the consular page and then click "registration" to get info on obtaining a birth certificate via mail. The info there should mirror the requirements for the London embassy.

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

good luck

[lopburi3]

Believe the best Royal Thai Embassy/Consulate web site for information is currently that of the Consulate in Los Angeles.  Although many forms will be country specific they could download at LA Consulate childs first passport the complete set of forms, in Thai, required by that Consulate.  It may well be the same forms as in other countries.

[bapak]

Well done Samran... excellent responses.

Bapak

[babababor]

Many thanks to samran and everyone else

Washington provided muchinfo on their web site

have now written to London with specific questions re application by mail

will keep all posted

thanks again

[Dah fahrang]

Khun baba-borbor:

We have successful experience, (Thai mother, UK father) with 18 yr old daughter, born on Hong Kong. We were told the same thing, in our case must return to HK to get Thai birth certificate there, but we persevered with pleading questions, telling immigration about the monsters who staff the Thai Consulate in Hong Kong!

Although we live in UK, we went through whole process in Thailand, bit by bit, on each of four consecutive holiday visits from UK!

Here's exactly what we did:

(1) Get proper translation (through translation bureau) of your marriage certificate, and daughters birth certificate.

(2) Take UK originals,translations and signed copies (NB: include translation bureau details) to Consular Affairs (Gasuan Gaan Prathet) in Laksi, for notarisation. Takes 2 days). They put their official stamp on the translated copies. Take your passport, and wife's ID card, with copies for good measure).

(3) After notarisation, go to Immigration Dept (Soi Suan Plu, rear building, 3/F above detention cells) with UK originals, plus notarised translations, plus your, and daughters passports, and wife's Thai ID card, plus two photocopies of everything and file an application for Nationality. This is the long part, as there is a waiting list. White envelope would help jump the queue - we didn't, on principle).

Once application is filed, a stamp is put into daughter's UK passport saying application for Thai Nationality has been made. No changes to her original visa conditions apply.

After a while, you will ALL be called for an interview at Suan Plu. This typed-up interview is put with the notarised translated documents (plus copies of originals in English) to an immigration panel.

(4) Once panel have met, decision is advised to you, in writing, by post. (about 12 months without 'tea' money in our case).

Go along to the same Immigration Office (with daughter's UK passport) where another stamp is put into her passport, barring her from leaving Thailand on her UK passport. (ie she has become Thai National, although UK passport is not interfered with or invalidated in any other way and is fully usable outside Thailand).

(5) Immigration Dept write to your wife's changwat (NB: not amphur) confirming your daughter's birth is to be registered. (2 days from visit to Immigration),

(6) Then daughter can apply for ID card at amphur, then go for Thai passport in Laksi.

First time must leave (then re-enter) Thailand on new Thai passport, while retaining UK passport for entry to and from UK.

And our daughter's done so ever since, as recently as last week.

PS: We had to all take a DNA test at the Police hospital as part of our application - to prove our duaghter was really ours and to help pay for the new DNA analayser. Cost us B2000 each money, but I think after a lot of complaints from the senior police doctor about this procedure to Immigration, this practice is now stopped.  

Long winded YES. All done in Thailand, YES. And it worked.

Chok dee.

[samran]

Dah Farang:

Congrats on managing to negotiate the system so successfully! They should give you Thai nationality just for for your patience that you have shown!!

One thing I don't understand though, doesn't your daughter automatically qualify for Thai citizenship through her mother? Why was the need for the immigration pannel. Did anyone explain why it was necessary?

Cheers

Samran

[Dah fahrang]

Samran:

Oh yes, absolutely right - but

the problem was daughter was born in Hong Kong, where the Thai Consulate, (1984 to the present) is staffed predominantly by what must be the rejects from the entire Thai Bureaucracy. Their breathtaking arrogance, and downright unhelpfulness meant my wife was kept in fear of even renewing her passport, and thus ignorance of her rights.

So, 18 years later, equipped with the belief that daughter was entitled to Thai nationality, we decided that it was time to find out precisely how to go about getting such from Soi Suan Plu. To our surprise, having made it clear we didin't 'do' tea money, we managed to read between the obfuscation and establish what needed to be done. Hence the scramble through the whole system, learning as we went. Oh, if only those Thai bureaucrats posted overseas had qualifications in helpfulness......

[babababor]

Hello all

Thanks for all the good advice

My daughter has today been to the Thai Ministry of Foreign affairs with her Mother and has completed all the necessary forms.

It is not necessary for me to go, but details of my pasport have been recorded.

Strangely they wanted to know my daughters birth weight, length at birth and the name of the midwife.  Hopefully they have accepted the tongue in cheek answers given.

One paper has to be certified by the Br Embassy (extortion at 2,200 bt for a stamp), returned to the Foreign Officve, and then, according to them, my daughter should have her birth certificate within 2/3 weeks.

All he need then do is take it to thelocal amphur and obtain a Thai id card.

Hope it really is as simple as they say.

Time will tell!"