Panel Doctor Advice For Oz Spouse Visa's

[fishhooks]

May need to do this in January or February 08.

Any good or bad experiences, say for the listings for Bangkok or Korat?

Costs, do they differ much for the same services from the different doctors?

[Aussietraveller]

We used BNH, across the road from the Oz Embassy in Bangkok.

1st Class facilities, and great staff.

Cost was just over 2000 Baht from memory.

[david96]

Here is the link to Hospitals in Thailand It got poster into the incorrect topic.

http://www.immi.gov.au/contacts/overseas/t...nel-doctors.htm

[gburns57au]

Different hospitals, different prices.....should range between 2000 and 3500 baht.

David, the panel doctors list is already pinned.

[Sporting Dog]

...and remember, if she has kids they have to do the health check too!

[fishhooks]

Thanks S D I did know that from previous advice.

That's why I asked about Korat in the first post, as this is much closer to home than Bangkok!

I imagine this can be done at the same time on the same form?

[fishhooks]

Without starting another topic as this is a related question on these Australian Spouse Visa applications:

Has anyone the experience of when being in LOS and you don't really have anyone who is an Oz Citizen to back you up with the 888 Stat Dec.

For that matter, even at home in Oz, I haven't anyone who can fulfil the 'depth' of the questions on the 888.

My 32 year old son was with me when I met my wife 2 years ago and he is well aware of the relationship and how it has developed. He is working here in Australia at present, but that's about it.

Also I have a couple of very close friends here in Australia, who by way of my regular contact with them here and telephone contact with them when I am in Thailand know very well of the relationship.

But I'm just a bit concerned that I don't have 'mates' who have been with us first hand if you get my drift, that can sit down and reliably fill out one of these Stat Decs.

I don't mind being quite up-front and telling any officer in Bangkok with regard to what I have stated above, and surely there are relationships that develop and are quite genuine and on-going that don't necessarily have witnesses to be able to vouch for you to the extent that seems to be required.

When within the period of the first part of the temporary stay in Australia, yes, it would be expected to have friends who can vouch for you, but in the let's say fiancee stage and in Thailand, you are more or less on your own (or I am anyway) and maybe on shallow ground for what is expected by the department!

[gburns57au]

You need one more after your son.....

If you cant find someone else who has met your partner, then you will have to use one of the mates, He can declare that although he hasnt met her, he is aware of the relationship and believes it to be ongoing and genuine....I cant say whether that would be acceptable by the Dept or not, but you have to go with what you have got.

[fishhooks]

Good advice, thanks for that, I have all the other proof they require, hundreds of photos with provable dates, financial transactions, phone records, passport records of joint travel to Cambodia, Burma and soon Singapore etc etc., so I'll just be upfront that I'm pretty much on my own as far as friend back-up, which is the whole truth anyway.

[david96]

Without starting another topic as this is a related question on these Australian Spouse Visa applications:

Has anyone the experience of when being in LOS and you don't really have anyone who is an Oz Citizen to back you up with the 888 Stat Dec.

For that matter, even at home in Oz, I haven't anyone who can fulfil the 'depth' of the questions on the 888.

My 32 year old son was with me when I met my wife 2 years ago and he is well aware of the relationship and how it has developed. He is working here in Australia at present, but that's about it.

Also I have a couple of very close friends here in Australia, who by way of my regular contact with them here and telephone contact with them when I am in Thailand know very well of the relationship.

But I'm just a bit concerned that I don't have 'mates' who have been with us first hand if you get my drift, that can sit down and reliably fill out one of these Stat Decs.

I don't mind being quite up-front and telling any officer in Bangkok with regard to what I have stated above, and surely there are relationships that develop and are quite genuine and on-going that don't necessarily have witnesses to be able to vouch for you to the extent that seems to be required.

When within the period of the first part of the temporary stay in Australia, yes, it would be expected to have friends who can vouch for you, but in the let's say fiancee stage and in Thailand, you are more or less on your own (or I am anyway) and maybe on shallow ground for what is expected by the department!

The form 888 is not required if you apply offshore, they are a statutory documents and any person filling them in should have known both the applicant and the sponsor for at least 1 year in a social context not as a casual acqaintance. They are used in the second stage of processing in Australia after 2years and they assist in confirming that the relationship still

exists before permanent residence status is granted.

[fishhooks]

Thanks david96:

So applying outside, as in the case of Thailand, how does one handle this aspect where in my reading of the '888' instructions and the Partner Booklet, still seems to indicate that 3rd party statements are required.

As said above, my son has certainly met my wife, at the outset more than 2 years ago and he has very first hand knowledge of the relationship right throughout.

I do have at this end in Australia one or two other 30 - 40 year close friends who are as aware as my son as to the progress of the relationship as well.

These friends have also spoken with her very briefly and casually when I have I have been with her and passed the phone to her in Thailand.

But I guess what I am coming back to is the fact that with nearly all other aspects of what the department requires I have no issues apart from this 3rd party back-up, which in the real world should not go against us at this initial stage.

[gburns57au]

Thanks david96:

So applying outside, as in the case of Thailand, how does one handle this aspect where in my reading of the '888' instructions and the Partner Booklet, still seems to indicate that 3rd party statements are required.

As said above, my son has certainly met my wife, at the outset more than 2 years ago and he has very first hand knowledge of the relationship right throughout.

I do have at this end in Australia one or two other 30 - 40 year close friends who are as aware as my son as to the progress of the relationship as well.

These friends have also spoken with her very briefly and casually when I have I have been with her and passed the phone to her in Thailand.

But I guess what I am coming back to is the fact that with nearly all other aspects of what the department requires I have no issues apart from this 3rd party back-up, which in the real world should not go against us at this initial stage.

2x 888 forms are required whether offshore or not.

As I said you can only go with what you have got....Yes the forms say they must have this or that, but if you havent got this or that, then what can you do?

As far as the application for permanant residence determination, I am sure that further documentation can be added to support that.

However it must be pointed out that what David said is correct in that the signatories of the form 888 should have known the applicant on more than a casual basis, and this could be a problem. They can attest to the length and ongoing nature of the relationship, possibly from their conversations with the applicant that the relationship is genuine but they cant comment on how the applicant and sponsor relate together as a couple in the social sense. This is quite important.

Perhaps a letter to Immi here with a reply regarding the situation could be the answer.

[fishhooks]

Appreciate what you both are saying.

Has this 888 form been changed in any way?

The ones I have downloaded have a design date of July 2007 (perhaps the format has never changed) and I find the header instructions a little contradictory, given that David is saying the 888 is not used for off-shore applications.

At least, again by my inexperienced reading, I figure at least my son could utilize this form and have it winessed here in Australia quite in keeping with the instructions.

Further, the way the questions are framed, specifically 3 & 4, I feel that provided the other friend witnesses answered these questions, particularly 3, truthfully and further qualified their answer that they have had no actual physical contact with my wife, IS this out of step with the instructions as they are stated.

Question 4 could also be answered more or less with the person making the statement saying that they are answering in the belief that the relationship is genuine by way of their constant contact with the sponsor and belief of how said sponsor has described the relationship (and driven them mad with photographs) over the period of time, in our case more than 2 years. Probably more in keeping with a character reference!

I am not trying to play lawyer here and I do really appreciate the advice given, but I guess I'm playing on the fact that the relationship is genuine and if I'm maybe not 100% in compliance with the intent of the document, that it is still an attempt to address the matter as correctly as possible.

You both would also have a much better idea of this than I, but I can imagine that there is probably quite a high percentage of relationships that originate and continue off-shore, where let's say the male sponsor and female partner form and continue in a really genuine relationship over a period of time, where another third party Oz Citizen has not been involved enough to be in the position of doing a Stat Dec to the degree of what is required.

As David pointed out, once the couple hit the shores of Oz, a different aspect comes into play and can be addressed easily!

[fishhooks]

Another Supplementary Question:

On reading the sponsorship limitation rules as regarding only 2 in a lifetime and more than 5 years apart, if with only 1 sponsorship and more than 5 years before the next, does this only apply to an actual partner such as spouse.

I sponsored (or nominated, can't remember the term at the time) my first wife 16 years ago and her daughter joined us a couple of years later.

I cannot remember if I needed to sponsor or nominate again in her (the daughters) case, or if she was accepted on the grounds of her mother being here and being a permanent resident.

Or put another way, does 'within' family count as separate sponsorships, or is it actual partner sponsorships that come under the limitation rule?

I read before from one of you learned guys here that the rule was brought in to cut out sham marriages, thus I hope I am imagining correctly that it only applies to actual partners.

Wonder if this has come up before, hope it is not too curly a question!

[david96]

With reference to the Form 888s they are not included in the Partner visa package when you apply offshore ie in Bangkok. When my spouse applied for her 309 visa at the end of 2006 they were not asked for by DIAC.We applied offshore.They will contact the applicant or the sponsor if additional information is required regarding the application.

With regard to the 1.20J rule it maybe advisable to check with DIAC I think you should be OK here as it applies to more than 2 financee/ spouse/defacto (sponsorships granted) not more than 5 years apart. It was made retrospective from Nov 1 1996 to stop serial sponsorships.

[Eureka]

According to the Immigration Dept at Oz BKK Embassy Thai citizens who meet certain conditions may also be used to testify on your behalf.

The have a list of occupations, such as doctor, headmaster, etc., and can also advise on the translation requirements for these documents.

[gburns57au]

Regards the 888 stat dec.....they have become more pedantic lately....include the forms for peace of mind....better to have something than to not have something....I know of offshore applications that were required to have the 888 forms.

Sponsorship limits apply to Spouse, de facto. interdependant sponsorship....not children.

Eureka....I havent heard of this....but if Fishhooks enquires at his local Immi Office then I am sure they can advise him on this....However he needs any enquiry and response to be written so a copy can be included in the application.

[david96]

The purpose of the Form 888s is to provide evidence that the sponsor and the applicant are still living as man and wife after 2 years when the spouse applies for permanent residence. This form is for world wide use not just Thailand.

Eg If both the spouse and the applicant were living in the UK or USA for a number of years the applicant may be eligible for permanent residence in Australia. This would be when the form 888 might be used.

[fishhooks]

Thanks all round, will get on to this, already have answer on the sponsorship limitation question, the system does not show sponsorships from as far back as I did it so no problem there!

Spoke to a very helpful girl at immigration who verified this to me. Nothing against my name whatsoever. She did verify that it's only partnership applications that come under this rule anyway.

[fishhooks]

Second call to Aust. Immigration today, I don't have time to turn-around an actual mail verification, but have date, time of call and name of officer who said can always be used in reference. He was quite sure of his information.

Form 888 can be readily used both here and off-shore, provided the conditions of the document are met.

It can be used here in Australia by a person eligible to provide the information. This can be a person who has not physically met my spouse, but can in other ways provide information as to reasons why he or she believes the relationship to be genuine and continuing and then witnessed by one of the occupations on the list of such persons. This is probably more or less a type of character reference of the sponsor from a person who is stating by way of 'knowledge' of the relationship from other facts other than actually meeting the spouse applicant.

Secondly, if the 888 form is originated by an Australian person whilst off-shore, provided it is witnessed by an eligible person allowed to do this, this is quite in order.

I didn't query this but I imagine one can have an Australian document witnessed at an Australian Embassy or Consulate.

So that's about as far as I can go at this stage and hope it helps in these type of matters.

[david96]

Here is the link to the form 888 itt is a pdf document.

http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/888.pdf

[gburns57au]

Second call to Aust. Immigration today, I don't have time to turn-around an actual mail verification, but have date, time of call and name of officer who said can always be used in reference. He was quite sure of his information.

Form 888 can be readily used both here and off-shore, provided the conditions of the document are met.

It can be used here in Australia by a person eligible to provide the information. This can be a person who has not physically met my spouse, but can in other ways provide information as to reasons why he or she believes the relationship to be genuine and continuing and then witnessed by one of the occupations on the list of such persons. This is probably more or less a type of character reference of the sponsor from a person who is stating by way of 'knowledge' of the relationship from other facts other than actually meeting the spouse applicant.

Secondly, if the 888 form is originated by an Australian person whilst off-shore, provided it is witnessed by an eligible person allowed to do this, this is quite in order.

I didn't query this but I imagine one can have an Australian document witnessed at an Australian Embassy or Consulate.

So that's about as far as I can go at this stage and hope it helps in these type of matters.

Thats about right.....glad you got that sorted and thanks for the clarification

[david96]

You should read page 1 of the form 888 very carefully.In my case the application was offshore, my spouse had spent 8 months on a 12 month multiple entry 676 visa in Australia.

DIAC did not require any form 888s and that is the reason they are not supplied in the offshore migration package.

(I am married under Thai law.)

[fishhooks]

Thanks David,

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at in the above post.

Have I said in any of my posts something that makes you believe that I'm unaware of some important fact that I'm likely to fall into a trap with?

I'm certainly claiming "Newbie" status with regard to these applications in recent years as I have not done one for 16 years, but with your couple of words in "red" I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

[david96]

Thanks David,

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at in the above post.

Have I said in any of my posts something that makes you believe that I'm unaware of some important fact that I'm likely to fall into a trap with?

I'm certainly claiming "Newbie" status with regard to these applications in recent years as I have not done one for 16 years, but with your couple of words in "red" I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

page1 column 1 para 4 "a person completing this declaration........"

page 1 column 2 para2 "You should confirm the requirements with the nearest Australian Mission overseas when you lodge your application"

Did you receive your Partner Migration documents from DIAC in Australia or in Bangkok? I might pay you to call DIAC at the Australian Embassy Bangkok to confirm.

[fishhooks]

Yep, thanks for the reminder and I have read over the doco again.

I'm quite sure I have interpreted the info okay and will go over everything carefully again around application time.

If you are referring to the 40SP & 47SP, I got those at the office in BKK last time I was there in September. I would hope though whether I got them in Oz or Thailand that they would be the same!?

The Partner info booklet, I downloaded it all off the "Net"

I asked when on the phone the other day to local immigration about the application fee also and they said no problem to pay here or in Thailand, making sure to keep the receipt.

Edited November 27, 2007 by fishhooks

[gburns57au]

Lets not be too pedantic here...........

Whether or not they are required, it certainly wont hurt to have them....

As I said they were requested from a friend of mine by the Dept not too long ago...I supplied them with my wifes pending visa just recently also...

They aint going to knock the application back just cause you have them.

[fishhooks]

Actually quite by coincidence, I was at an old Channel 9 reunion today, I worked there for 39 years.

I happened to be sitting with an old mate who is now a JP.

I raised the question about Stat Decs (remembering that this question had quite a bit of to & fro discussion on this part of the forum many months back as well)

In his opinion, the 888 form as supplied by the department, is merely designed as such, with the questions formed as such, to give any applicant a clear and concise method of addressing the info that is required.

Again, in his opinion, a Stat Dec is by definition a document following an established format and as long as set out and witnessed correctly it is precisely legal.

He said that if one was to fill out the standard "blank" form available at any newsagent in Australia, as long as it addressed the questions required by the department, there should not be any problem at all. He added that the 888 (I luckily had one with me) was an easy read and convenient for any officer of the department, as to the way it is set out.

I have to agree with the previous post and at the same time thanking David for his input and help.

But, are we getting a tad carried away with this question. Give them everything and more. If they do not require, they pass back across the table! (I hope with a nice smile as they are supposed to do, due to the country they happen to be located in)

Edited November 27, 2007 by fishhooks

[gburns57au]

With all due respect to your learned friend...

He knows what he is allowed to sign etc.....

What he may not know is what the Embassy requires.....the Enbassy reserves the right to change the goalposts as they see fit.

[Chris Lawrence]

That is so true GB