Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[qualtrough]

It would be similar as me referring to all black people in the UK as negros. It has a proper meaning but is also used as a slur.

Such as, "look at the negro", to my friends or "would the negro like a drink?" when I am speaking to a group of his friends or directly to him.

If you don't think black people would get offended by that, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Your logic, if it may be called that, is faulty. There are two reason why using 'negro' in that context is rude. One is that black Americans long ago decided that they did not like that term, and is no longer acceptable in polite discourse. The second reason is that in both example the 'negro' is being referred to as if he wasn't there or is an object, which is rude no matter what word is used to describe that person, e.g. "Look at the African-American" or "Would the African-American like a drink". Although African-American is a term accepted by many African-Americans, using it in that way would be considered very rude. Your racial analogy further falls apart if you substitute Asian for the race. Asian is the term to describe those coming from Asia and also the races coming from that regions, e.g. The Chinese are Asians, so are the Japanese. Most Asians in the US that I know don't take offense at that word, and in fact incorporate it into on of their preferred terms to describe them--Asian-Americans. So, in short, your attempt at proving that 'negro' is the equivalent of 'farang' falls quite flat. Sorry about that. I will try not to judge all farangs by your example. After all, I am a farang, and I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

[meemiathai]

I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

Glad to hear that. Or else I would've thought the IQ of average farangs is very low.

[meemiathai]

ET, you have not told me yet what the alternative thai word is for "caucasion". How should I describe it when I see you but am not allowed to use the word farang?

[meemiathai]

So are you a farang?

[Jingthing]

OK, if you insist, go ask any thai if they think you are a farang. Tell me if there is one thai who says "no, you are not a farang".

Actually, I don't consider myself a "white" person in the US, but here I am a farang. I am not bothered by it and I moved here knowing the score, but I don't think this kind of generalization is very bright. I think it does reflect on the overall xenophobia and poor education system about anything outside Thailand in Thailand.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[qualtrough]

It would be similar as me referring to all black people in the UK as negros. It has a proper meaning but is also used as a slur.

Such as, "look at the negro", to my friends or "would the negro like a drink?" when I am speaking to a group of his friends or directly to him.

If you don't think black people would get offended by that, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

Your logic, if it may be called that, is faulty. There are two reason why using 'negro' in that context is rude. One is that black Americans long ago decided that they did not like that term, and is no longer acceptable in polite discourse. The second reason is that in both example the 'negro' is being referred to as if he wasn't there or is an object, which is rude no matter what word is used to describe that person, e.g. "Look at the African-American" or "Would the African-American like a drink". Although African-American is a term accepted by many African-Americans, using it in that way would be considered very rude. Your racial analogy further falls apart if you substitute Asian for the race. Asian is the term to describe those coming from Asia and also the races coming from that regions, e.g. The Chinese are Asians, so are the Japanese. Most Asians in the US that I know don't take offense at that word, and in fact incorporate it into on of their preferred terms to describe them--Asian-Americans. So, in short, your attempt at proving that 'negro' is the equivalent of 'farang' falls quite flat. Sorry about that. I will try not to judge all farangs by your example. After all, I am a farang, and I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

So by your logic it is ok to generalise white Westerners as farangs and Asians but not blacks as negros because they find it offensive?

Erm, I don't like being called a farang. Does that mean we can start considering 'farang' offensive?

Negro is the ideal example as it is a proper descriptive word with definitive meaning yet as you just unwittingly admitted, can be construed as an ethnic slur and therefore offensive, just as the word 'farang' is, and can be.

Big difference. There was a time when Negro was not considered offensive, even by 'blacks'. After all, the word comes from black. However, for whatever reason that changed and over time black Americans almost unanimously came to regard it as a slur and it became a taboo word. That is not the case with farang. A very small portion of the farang population here find it offensive, mostly because they are conflating the meaning of the word and the way it is sometimes used. If some day that attitude changes and the majority of farangs find it offensive, well then it may just become an offensive word. Believe me, that aint happening in our lifetimes, so as a farang you will just have to learn to deal with it.

[meemiathai]

OK, if you insist, go ask any thai if they think you are a farang. Tell me if there is one thai who says "no, you are not a farang".

Actually, I don't consider myself a "white" person in the US, but here I am a farang. I am not bothered by it and I moved here knowing the score, but I don't think this kind of generalization is very bright. I think it does reflect on the overall xenophobia and poor education system about anything outside Thailand in Thailand.

I think you are just misunderstanding something.

You are not bothered by it, I can see, which is different from some people here. But why is it not very bright? Why is it xenophobic? What has it got to do with poor education? We have this in HK. In China, Japan, Singapore.......... Does that mean the same can be said with these places?

[Jingthing]

Being called a farang is the minor part. What many Thais THINK about farangs and then it really gets interesting.

[TonyLeung]

1. farang is not offensive

2. its easier to say farang then to say "white foreigner in Thailand"

[qualtrough]

I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

Glad to hear that. Or else I would've thought the IQ of average farangs is very low.

Most of the Westerners in Thailand speak no more than a basic modicum of Thai, if any at all, and are unrehearsed in Thai cultural idioms preferring to believe it is a cultural charm.

The benefit of naivety, no doubt.

Well sorry, but I don't fall into that group. I speak, read, and write Thai, and currently work part time as an editor and translator (Thai to English) for a major corporation. I have studied Thai off and on since 1980, including university courses, and have lived here for more than 16 years since first setting foot here in 1980. I say that not to brag, but to tell you that I know far more than a 'modicum' of Thai and am not naive. I can tell you that your interpretation of the word 'farang' is completely and utterly incorrect. Farang in and off itself is a neutral word. It can indeed be used negatively by those who are not happy with farangs, but so can any word. The vast, vast majority of Thais that I know and interact with do not attach the stigma you feel it has to the word. If you and a few others here want to act like sensitive little PC flowers that is your prerogative, but I doubt very much that you are going to persuade anyone, and you will certainly not persuade any Thais.

[meemiathai]

Being called a farang is the minor part. What many Thais THINK about farangs and then it really gets interesting.

So now you admit it is not the word "farang" that bothers you. Instead it is not knowing what is going on in their mind that is a problem. It is not knowing if they are being disrespectful that is a problem. That is much more reasonable. I would like to emphazise though even thais don't know the minds of other thais.

[TonyLeung]

I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

Glad to hear that. Or else I would've thought the IQ of average farangs is very low.

Most of the Westerners in Thailand speak no more than a basic modicum of Thai, if any at all, and are unrehearsed in Thai cultural idioms preferring to believe it is a cultural charm.

The benefit of naivety, no doubt.

Well sorry, but I don't fall into that group. I speak, read, and write Thai, and currently work part time as an editor and translator (Thai to English) for a major corporation. I have studied Thai off and on since 1980, including university courses, and have lived here for more than 16 years since first setting foot here in 1980. I say that not to brag, but to tell you that I know far more than a 'modicum' of Thai and am not naive. I can tell you that your interpretation of the word 'farang' is completely and utterly incorrect. Farang in and off itself is a neutral word. It can indeed be used negatively by those who are not happy with farangs, but so can any word. The vast, vast majority of Thais that I know and interact with do not attach the stigma you feel it has to the word. If you and a few others here want to act like sensitive little PC flowers that is your prerogative, but I doubt very much that you are going to persuade anyone, and you will certainly not persuade any Thais.

he probably spends most of his time in bar/tourist areas. thats the only way i think someone could come to the conclusion that farang has a negative connotation.

[meemiathai]

I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

Glad to hear that. Or else I would've thought the IQ of average farangs is very low.

Most of the Westerners in Thailand speak no more than a basic modicum of Thai, if any at all, and are unrehearsed in Thai cultural idioms preferring to believe it is a cultural charm.

The benefit of naivety, no doubt.

Well sorry, but I don't fall into that group. I speak, read, and write Thai, and currently work part time as an editor and translator (Thai to English) for a major corporation. I have studied Thai off and on since 1980, including university courses, and have lived here for more than 16 years since first setting foot here in 1980. I say that not to brag, but to tell you that I know far more than a 'modicum' of Thai and am not naive. I can tell you that your interpretation of the word 'farang' is completely and utterly incorrect. Farang in and off itself is a neutral word. It can indeed be used negatively by those who are not happy with farangs, but so can any word. The vast, vast majority of Thais that I know and interact with do not attach the stigma you feel it has to the word. If you and a few others here want to act like sensitive little PC flowers that is your prerogative, but I doubt very much that you are going to persuade anyone, and you will certainly not persuade any Thais.

Like the word. "Hansum man!"

I have to warn you ET. If you pass by a gogo bar in pattaya and hear girls calling you "Hansum man", It means "hey sucker! come in and part with your money!" Clariy just in case you again don't understand.

[meemiathai]

I know a lot of farangs here, and none of the farangs I hang out with think it is a derogatory term.

Glad to hear that. Or else I would've thought the IQ of average farangs is very low.

Most of the Westerners in Thailand speak no more than a basic modicum of Thai, if any at all, and are unrehearsed in Thai cultural idioms preferring to believe it is a cultural charm.

The benefit of naivety, no doubt.

Well sorry, but I don't fall into that group. I speak, read, and write Thai, and currently work part time as an editor and translator (Thai to English) for a major corporation. I have studied Thai off and on since 1980, including university courses, and have lived here for more than 16 years since first setting foot here in 1980. I say that not to brag, but to tell you that I know far more than a 'modicum' of Thai and am not naive. I can tell you that your interpretation of the word 'farang' is completely and utterly incorrect. Farang in and off itself is a neutral word. It can indeed be used negatively by those who are not happy with farangs, but so can any word. The vast, vast majority of Thais that I know and interact with do not attach the stigma you feel it has to the word. If you and a few others here want to act like sensitive little PC flowers that is your prerogative, but I doubt very much that you are going to persuade anyone, and you will certainly not persuade any Thais.

he probably spends most of his time in bar/tourist areas. thats the only way i think someone could come to the conclusion that farang has a negative connotation.

Yeah. "Farang" is derogatory and "Hansum man!" is a compliment. Is that not obvious?

[RueFang]

It doesn’t imply negativity. If you are a farang it’s a fact, nothing negative about it. Unless it’s used in a negative way, which any word can be.

completely agree with this statement

I was not a farang before I came to Thailand. It is not what I am. It is how Thais define me. Of course, I play along to communicate with Thais, but that doesn't mean I have to internalize their bizarre world view.

In fact, you were a farang before you came to Thailand if you have white skin, you just didn't know any Thai language. I can only gather that you only want to be called a "person" rather than a "white person". The reason so many folk think the word is derogatory is because so many white folk get up Thai people's noses and they say the word farang negatively!

The Thai word for Caucasian is literally "white person" (khon khao). Ask them what they call an African..khon dum (black person) a sri langkan khon ghek (muslim person!)...they don't see it as offensive, it's just a simple way to group people rather than use long unnecessary language. People are sooo sensitive. Thai's aren't simple minded, they just don't waste time thinking about ridiculous things making them into something it's not.

[Jingthing]

Thais read very few books. Is this a sign of an intellectual mecca? Lets be realistic. As a generality, Thai culture does not encourage curiosity about the world outside of Thailand. That doesn't mean they are dumb or have low IQs, just a reflection of the culture.

I would prefer being called an American.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[chatette]

ET's extremely well made point, which seems to be missed by so many posters, is that the general usage of the word 'farang,' regardless of its origins, amounts to objectification:

'the process by which people assign meaning to things, people, places, activities, (or, in the case of self-objectification, themselves), and thus become part of cultural constructions which inform and guide behavior. This term also refers to behavior in which one person treats another person as an object and not as a fellow human being with feelings and consciousness of his or her own, in other words as, as without agency. In this sense, it is a synonym of reification.'

The behaviour of charging 'farang' more for services, access etc. than people of 'Thai' appearance is one consequence. The use of the word by westerners, easterners, northerners or southerners perpetuates objectification and, to go back to the OPs question, originates from ignorance of or disinterest in the consequences. This is unlikely to change anytime soon, just as Bangkok's pavements or traffic are likely to change anytime soon, or the objectification of 'Thais' and generalizations on Thai behaviour in this forum.

Edited November 23, 2007 by chatette

[RueFang]

I would prefer being called an American.

Of course you would...because everyone knows just by looking at you that you're American.

FW

[meemiathai]

I would prefer being called an American.

Of course you would...because everyone knows just by looking at you that you're American.

FW

And I prefered to be called Sam when they see me.

[madjbs]

Chatette

If you use the English version of “farang” while chatting in English then your point would be valid. However you cant analyze what is polite and what is seen as rude in a different culture or language purely by translating it back into English and seeing if it is acceptable in that form. It just doesn’t work. Also just because its not polite to talk like that in the west it doesnt mean you are right and everyone Thai is wrong. Open your mind.

Edited November 23, 2007 by madjbs

[meemiathai]

Thais read very few books. Is this a sign of an intellectual mecca? Lets be realistic. As a generality, Thai culture does not encourage curiosity about the world outside of Thailand. That doesn't mean they are dumb or have low IQs, just a reflection of the culture.

I would prefer being called an American.

You mean they are different from

?

[meemiathai]

Chatette

If you use the English version of “farang” while chatting in English then your point would be valid. However you cant analyze what is polite and what is seen as rude in a different culture or language purely by translating it back into English and seeing if it is acceptable in that form. It just doesn’t work. Also just because its not polite to talk like that in the west it doesnt mean you are right and everyone Thai is wrong. Open your mind.

Well said.

If only there were more people like you, there might be less conflicts? Or less wars?

[meemiathai]

It is not just different languages when it comes to 2 different races. There is a difference in the way of thinking too.

[jetjock]

I resent Thai's referring to me as a 'farang' and wish Thai's would use a more appropriate term like "Honky" or "Whitetrash".

[meemiathai]

What is a Honky?

[Jingthing]

Of course you would...because everyone knows just by looking at you that you're American.

Funny, I can almost always tell the difference between a Thai, Korean, Chinese, etc. just by listening to a few words out of their mouth. Thais aren't capable of this with us whities?????

Edited November 23, 2007 by Jingthing

[jetjock]

What is a Honky?

An affectionate term some black people have for us whites ! NOT

[jetjock]

Of course you would...because everyone knows just by looking at you that you're American.

Funny, I can almost always tell the difference between a Thai, Korean, Chinese, etc. just by listening to a few words out of their mouth. Thais aren't capable of this with us whities?????

My guess is that when Thai's see a very 'hansum man' then they can tell that he is an American !

Edited November 23, 2007 by jetjock

[meemiathai]

Of course you would...because everyone knows just by looking at you that you're American.

Funny, I can almost always tell the difference between a Thai, Korean, Chinese, etc. just by listening to a few words out of their mouth. Thais aren't capable of this with us whities?????

Thais, the average thais I mean, can't. It would be quite good if they can tell whether it is english or not.

[chatette]

'If you use the English version of “farang” while chatting in English then your point would be valid. However you cant analyze what is polite and what is seen as rude in a different culture or language purely by translating it back into English and seeing if it is acceptable in that form. It just doesn’t work. Also just because its not polite to talk like that in the west it doesnt mean you are right and everyone Thai is wrong. Open your mind.'

erhum, Madjbs, objectification is not exclusive to the English language, which happens to be the language of discussion here. Where did I say I was right and everyone Thai is wrong? I am Thai. My point is that the code name farang, or any other such code, used as a generalization leads to the treating of people perceived as such as objects. To my mind, open or closed, that's not good. But nor are many other things in this world, like broken pavements in Bangkok or some of the extraordinary generalizations about Thais that appear in this forum.