Why Do Western People Use The Word "farang"?

[ignoramus]

Sorry that I haven't had the patience to real every single post on this topic, so this contribution may have been already noted. I've got a few books on Thailand, including Culture Shock Thailand (first printed 1982), and had a look (without succes) for the meaning of 'farang', as used by the Thai people. The reason I had a look was that I seem to recall hearing or reading somewhere that the word meant 'long nose'.

Obviously there would be no word or phrase (for the word 'farang') from antiquity, so if I'm not mistaken about my guess this may be not too unreasonable, as noses are certainly a differentiating characteristic between orientals and occidentals.

[HS Mauberley]

Here is a phenomenon that I have noticed in several Asian countries that I have lived in -- Hong Kong, Japan, and now Thailand. In all these countries, I have come across a fair number of Westerners (Caucasians mainly) who have lived in these countries for quite a number of years (say more than 10), maybe have a local woman as a wife, and only speak just a smattering of words of the local language; such words as hello, thank you, check please, you're crazy or nuts, good luck, and the word for foreigner (farang, gaijin, gwailo, etc.)

And because many of these foreigners don't want others to wonder why after so many years, they still can't really speak the language, they tend to inject into their speech when talking to other foreigners, visitors, and even locals, as many and as often as possible, the few local words that they do know. Like the Thais, this action may have something to do with "face", that they give the impression that they are, whether rightly or not, well imbued with the local culture and customs.

Consequently, in Thailand, you will hear from the Westerners, frequent use of terms like farang, mai pen rai, sawasdee, krap khun kop (or ka), jai yen yen, chok dee, and the few other terms that represent the limit of their knowledge of the local language. The same comment can be made about foreigners using Japanese and Cantonese.

I'm guessing that this observation will result in a barrage of vituperative comments from farangs who have made the effort to learn the local language, or from others who contend that their living in the local community doesn't require them to learn the local language, and that they get along just fine in English or some other Western language.

Whatever, this is just my observation, as one possible reason why you often hear foreigners using the term farang. It's what and possibly all they know of the Thai language.

Very good post. I hadn't thought of this but I'm sure you're absolutely right.

[sylviex]

Agree, too. I mentioned earlier somewhere in this thread that I felt uncomfortable using the word because it implied an "old Thai hand" swagger I don't deserve.

Though the explanation doesn't cover everyone, it may be the ones coming more to your attention. Like, possibly the ones in Speedo thongs, unless they're a fig of raiment of someone's imagination .

Edited November 30, 2007 by sylviex

[ade100]

I just hate if Thai people know me and my name already and then use the term farang when talking about me. I introduce myself to people and so they can use my name, very unpolite in my opinion. BTW my name isn´t difficult

OK, one more thing to add just before I forget.

Let's say "farang Jim" is in the room where there are 6,7 others. If one asks "Does Jim want more rice?" to another, he might probably be asking "Jim? Jim arai? Nam Jim?" whilst if one just say "Does farang want more rice?" Bingo! Everyone knows.

I would say if there is "farang Jim", "farang John" and farang Tom" sitting together. You are much less likely to hear the word farang.

I really didn’t want to reply to this one because I don’t want to get drawn into an argument about whether or not the F word is offensive. (If Thais call my “farang” I’m not going to lose sleep over it and it’s not going to change anytime soon anyway)

But linguistically this example is fascinating.

I just can’t imagine ever saying “Does the Thai want an ice” or “Does the Asian want any ice”.

Even if we set it in Europe, I still can’t image saying “Does the Italian want any ice” or “Does the Lithuanian want any ice”.

Why not? Would any of you native English speakers say it?

I suppose if I knew the person very well it might sound like a joke but otherwise it would just sound kind of weird and maybe a little patronising. Not really sure why?

Any suggestions?

[HS Mauberley]

So speakers of different languages employ different cultural conventions. It’s not really that shocking (or even noteworthy)…unless you decide to judge speakers of one language by the conventions of another language, but then it doesn’t really make any sense to do this.

[undercover]

Then you understand very well that the word 'Farang' (one meaning anyway) means 'Caucasian' and that the word's 'Chinky' and 'Slant' in English do not mean 'Asian'.

.....................

I see what your getting at but the words chinky and slant ? as you say they don't mean Asian but they certainly don't mean Caucasian. when spoken people tend to think of Asians, not only the Chinese. This is what I was on about.

would a Thai in the UK adopt these words and refer to themselves as a "chink" or a "yellow man"? I doubt it. I suspect they would have more self respect, more respect for their country, culture and origins. But aren't we doing the equivalent when we adopt the word "farang" and refer to ourselves as "farang"?

[meemiathai]

Here is a phenomenon that I have noticed in several Asian countries that I have lived in -- Hong Kong, Japan, and now Thailand. In all these countries, I have come across a fair number of Westerners (Caucasians mainly) who have lived in these countries for quite a number of years (say more than 10), maybe have a local woman as a wife, and only speak just a smattering of words of the local language; such words as hello, thank you, check please, you're crazy or nuts, good luck, and the word for foreigner (farang, gaijin, gwailo, etc.)

And because many of these foreigners don't want others to wonder why after so many years, they still can't really speak the language, they tend to inject into their speech when talking to other foreigners, visitors, and even locals, as many and as often as possible, the few local words that they do know. Like the Thais, this action may have something to do with "face", that they give the impression that they are, whether rightly or not, well imbued with the local culture and customs.

Consequently, in Thailand, you will hear from the Westerners, frequent use of terms like farang, mai pen rai, sawasdee, krap khun kop (or ka), jai yen yen, chok dee, and the few other terms that represent the limit of their knowledge of the local language. The same comment can be made about foreigners using Japanese and Cantonese.

I'm guessing that this observation will result in a barrage of vituperative comments from farangs who have made the effort to learn the local language, or from others who contend that their living in the local community doesn't require them to learn the local language, and that they get along just fine in English or some other Western language.

Whatever, this is just my observation, as one possible reason why you often hear foreigners using the term farang. It's what and possibly all they know of the Thai language.

Good point. This was actually one of the possibilities I had in mind when I initially posed the question. I just didn't dare state it so explicitly for fear of bitter retribution :-)

Oh yes what a brilliant post that was! I bet he stayed more than a few hours here in HK.

I would have wanted to post chinese here but it is against forum rules. And also what is the <removed> point? Can you guys read chinese? I hope by posting in english you guys are not going to think I am trying to show off how much english I know!

I think me and a few other posters have tried the very best to explain things here and it is up to you to listen or not. You can choose to listen to Mr HK, Japan and thailand expert.

[meemiathai]

I just hate if Thai people know me and my name already and then use the term farang when talking about me. I introduce myself to people and so they can use my name, very unpolite in my opinion. BTW my name isn´t difficult

OK, one more thing to add just before I forget.

Let's say "farang Jim" is in the room where there are 6,7 others. If one asks "Does Jim want more rice?" to another, he might probably be asking "Jim? Jim arai? Nam Jim?" whilst if one just say "Does farang want more rice?" Bingo! Everyone knows.

I would say if there is "farang Jim", "farang John" and farang Tom" sitting together. You are much less likely to hear the word farang.

I really didn’t want to reply to this one because I don’t want to get drawn into an argument about whether or not the F word is offensive. (If Thais call my “farang” I’m not going to lose sleep over it and it’s not going to change anytime soon anyway)

But linguistically this example is fascinating.

I just can’t imagine ever saying “Does the Thai want an ice” or “Does the Asian want any ice”.

Even if we set it in Europe, I still can’t image saying “Does the Italian want any ice” or “Does the Lithuanian want any ice”.

Why not? Would any of you native English speakers say it?

I suppose if I knew the person very well it might sound like a joke but otherwise it would just sound kind of weird and maybe a little patronising. Not really sure why?

Any suggestions?

Have you ever seen an astronaut walk on the moon? What do you think? Do you think that all astronauts must be drunk or something? I mean if you saw some guy walking like that in England you must think that he is off his nuts, right? Before we argue I would like to point out that there is a different gravitational force between the moon and the earth.

By the way, can I play squash inside your skull? Why the waste of space?

[Jingthing]

Just as a point of amusement I just saw a new trashy Thai comedy about a failing movie theater and they were rehearsing some Western popular songs and a character asked "Who wrote those songs?" and the answer was "farang". The translation on the subtitle for farang was SOMEONE.

[Jingthing]

igh: People just won't listen. It is not at all often used in a derogatory way! Unless the moment you step out into the streets you start looking for trouble with every thai you meet!

Shall I do a poll? A matter of perception. If I am walking down the street and I hear murmers of FARANG FARANG I do not see that as a positive use.

[jumnien]

In your case it probaby isn't!

[Jingthing]

In your case it probaby isn't!

So you are immune then?

[jumnien]

Yes!

[meemiathai]

igh: People just won't listen. It is not at all often used in a derogatory way! Unless the moment you step out into the streets you start looking for trouble with every thai you meet!

Shall I do a poll? A matter of perception. If I am walking down the street and I hear murmers of FARANG FARANG I do not see that as a positive use.

Ok I know. And I think "Sawadee Khrup" is very rude too. How many times do I have to tell the thais not to say that to me. Next time if they dare ever say that to me again, I am just going to reply "<deleted> off".

I am joining you guys from now on! Jingthing.

Edited November 30, 2007 by meemiathai

[Jingthing]

Yes!

Congratulations on your charmed life.

[jumnien]

The congratulations goes to Ajahn Jumnien; all I did was follow the simple instructions!

[ade100]

I just hate if Thai people know me and my name already and then use the term farang when talking about me. I introduce myself to people and so they can use my name, very unpolite in my opinion. BTW my name isn´t difficult

OK, one more thing to add just before I forget.

Let's say "farang Jim" is in the room where there are 6,7 others. If one asks "Does Jim want more rice?" to another, he might probably be asking "Jim? Jim arai? Nam Jim?" whilst if one just say "Does farang want more rice?" Bingo! Everyone knows.

I would say if there is "farang Jim", "farang John" and farang Tom" sitting together. You are much less likely to hear the word farang.

I really didn't want to reply to this one because I don't want to get drawn into an argument about whether or not the F word is offensive. (If Thais call my "farang" I'm not going to lose sleep over it and it's not going to change anytime soon anyway)

But linguistically this example is fascinating.

I just can't imagine ever saying "Does the Thai want an ice" or "Does the Asian want any ice".

Even if we set it in Europe, I still can't image saying "Does the Italian want any ice" or "Does the Lithuanian want any ice".

Why not? Would any of you native English speakers say it?

I suppose if I knew the person very well it might sound like a joke but otherwise it would just sound kind of weird and maybe a little patronising. Not really sure why?

Any suggestions?

Have you ever seen an astronaut walk on the moon? What do you think? Do you think that all astronauts must be drunk or something? I mean if you saw some guy walking like that in England you must think that he is off his nuts, right? Before we argue I would like to point out that there is a different gravitational force between the moon and the earth.

By the way, can I play squash inside your skull? Why the waste of space?

I have had to endure a good deal of personal insults and abuse on this thread but I keep it going because I think it is interesting and people are enjoying the discussion. Over 400 posts to the thread backs this up. However if you really find that both I and this thread are beneath your intelligence you are welcome not to read it and to devote your time elsewhere.

However you have made some very interesting points and I do value your contributions. If you could keep the discusion within the bounds of civilised discussion and not stray into personal insults it would be appreciated. Note, I have never insulted you, your intelliegence or your perception. I believe in respect.

Thanks

Ade

[meemiathai]

I apologize. I am the type of person who does not always speak the most polite language. But I never mean to hurt anyone.

Please do not take me too seriously.

best wishes

[ade100]

Apology accepted and thanks again for you contributions.

Ade

[tangoll]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction to my post. I expected a lot of blasphemous and damning replies, but so far not so bad. Maybe my observation rang true.

Meemiathai, your comments are a bit obtuse for me to comprehend. Your comment about the HK, Thai, and Japan "expert" is a bit of a dig, as you know nothing about me beyond what was said in my post. But I think my experience from having lived 15 years in Japan, 11 years in the US, 25 years in HK, and now partly in HK and partly in Bangkok, plus fluency in English, Japanese, Cantonese, and a decent understanding of Thai made me feel comfortable enough to be able to say and back up what was said in my post. I'm HK Chinese.