Tipping

[1stbase]

In the US, not tipping could result in a very unpleasant public scene with a waiter chasing you out of the restaurant to demand WHY, so years of this kind of conditioning takes its toll.

This once happened in The Soprano's lol, that was a good scene.

[thaihome]

What do (would) you do at MK's if the service was no good. They stand next to you when they return your change and don't leave until you tip them.

They are not standing there waiting for the tip, they are standing there waiting for you take your change (and sign the bill if you have member card and get the discount) so they can get the tray back. It is normal to leave the loose change and maybe 20 baht. If the service was poor (unusual, but not unheard of in MK) don't leave anything and just hand the tray back. It makes no difference for the person standing there what you do. From what I have seen in the large MK’s, this is the sole job for the person bringing back the change. Seems to be the first task a new person is given.

TH

[njpski]

Compulsory tipping a la the american way is appalling - does the restaurant owner in america pay his supplier an extra 10% - I don't think so!

The wages paid should reflect the quality of the workers' efforts. Customers should not be forced to tip.

Given the above, I am more than happy to reward service that I feel has been attentive.

In Thailand, where pay is so small, to add a bit extra for special service does not hurt me, but helps the staff greatly.

A thought occurs, if we are compelled to tip in america for "service", should we respond with a negative tip for poor quality food, service? american coffee would be a fine example where the negative tip would seem to be always required, lol.

[edwardandtubs]

In Thailand, where pay is so small, to add a bit extra for special service does not hurt me, but helps the staff greatly.

In reality it doesn't as the tip is factored into the staff's wages. In the UK, for example, tips are included for calculating a worker's pay for tax and minimum wage purposes so employers are free to pay a lower "base salary". I'm sure the same is true of Thailand or all the 7/11 workers would be running off to becomes waitresses instead.

Edited November 26, 2007 by edwardandtubs

[stateman]

Anyway, I think tipping should be banned. To give good service is in the job description for all service workers and they should not expect to get a tip if they provide this. It should be up to the management to evaluate their staff and give the good performers incentives such as pay rises, bonuses and promotions.

If tipping was banned the restaurants would be forced to increase the pay to a realistic level or the workers would disappear to

other restaurants or another line of work. An additional bonus would be that with a higher pay there would be more social welfare contributions and more tax revenue for the country.

This would of course slightly higher prices to pay for the customers but I much rather pay what it says on the bill than going trough this tipping business every time I buy a service.

I second that!

Indeed everyone is supposed to do a good job - even the waiter/waitress. Imagine if you do a poor job, you won't expect your boss to give you a raise. [unless you work for the government.] Here some discussions say if the waiter/waitress does poorly, then we tip less, which is like they still give an instant bonus. No wonder in Pataya so many waiters/waitresses don't give good service - they'd get tips anyway!

In a typical company, payroll often is one of the largest expense, likewise in a restaurant. Only in a restaurant , especially in the US, where the owners get away with short-changing their own employees. Employees who interface with the customers and give enough satisfaction for the customers to want to come back. They can continue their practice only because the public 'feel obligated' to continue to 'help out'!

I happen to either know or know of several owners who benefit greatly from such practice, and themselves drive nice cars, often nicer than the customers'. Some are known to even cheat on their taxable income, when most customers who are office workers have to pay full tax. Some even were hit with fines for evading taxes. Something known only to someone close - not making news.

The owners I know make so much money that they could afford to buy nice cars for themselves, can open additional restaurants, buy real estates for investment.

As the owners pay the employees very little, many also are known to mistreat their employees - waiter/waitess and kitchen crew alike.

Granted, not all owners are like that, but I have to say the majority of the ones I know or know of fit into what I described above.

For years I told my wife that it is not fair that restaurants pay their workers inadequately, and expect us paying customers to help footing their payroll! Nonsense! What we are doing is reinforcing the owner's bad behavior.

With all that said above, I think it fair for the owner to pay a fair share to their own workers. I don't know how, especially in a country like the US where things are so deep-rooted.

In Thailand the owners typically pay the workers rather low wages. So when an establishment has good business, the owner makes out quite well. [but they do risk losing money too, as no customers help footing a good part of their payroll.]

Because the Thai workers don't get much tips, so the owners have to pay close to the market wage for the employees. But if the trend is toward workers getting more tips, I am afraid that the nature of the owners is going to skimp on their employees' pay, and shift the burden onto the paying customers. Keeping more profits for themselves.

I am for paying the waiter to help him/her out, and I have been. But I also don't want to contribute to the owner shifting the paying burden to the customers in Thailand as that which already happens in the US. I'd love to see the owners maintaining that burden. I agree with the Australian model mentioned by another poster, which discourages tips.

[Lost in LOS]

I owned restaurants in america. The waitpersons made very good money with tipping, 15 to 20% was the norm. the IRS expects the workers to be tipped and as an owner we have to calculate the workers are getting 8 % [think thats the number, its been awhile] of their gross and add it to their tax basis for which they will be taxed on at the end of the year. yep, i agree it sucks

[tropo]

What do (would) you do at MK's if the service was no good. They stand next to you when they return your change and don't leave until you tip them.

They are not standing there waiting for the tip, they are standing there waiting for you take your change (and sign the bill if you have member card and get the discount) so they can get the tray back. It is normal to leave the loose change and maybe 20 baht. If the service was poor (unusual, but not unheard of in MK) don't leave anything and just hand the tray back. It makes no difference for the person standing there what you do. From what I have seen in the large MK’s, this is the sole job for the person bringing back the change. Seems to be the first task a new person is given.

TH

Get out of here. Waiting for the tray?

I have no member card and they'll wait for as long as it takes. You know exactly what it is...it's a crafty way of increasing tip revenue....and it works.

[thaihome]

What do (would) you do at MK's if the service was no good. They stand next to you when they return your change and don't leave until you tip them.

They are not standing there waiting for the tip, they are standing there waiting for you take your change (and sign the bill if you have member card and get the discount) so they can get the tray back. It is normal to leave the loose change and maybe 20 baht. If the service was poor (unusual, but not unheard of in MK) don't leave anything and just hand the tray back. It makes no difference for the person standing there what you do. From what I have seen in the large MK’s, this is the sole job for the person bringing back the change. Seems to be the first task a new person is given.

TH

Get out of here. Waiting for the tray?

I have no member card and they'll wait for as long as it takes. You know exactly what it is...it's a crafty way of increasing tip revenue....and it works.

Yep, waiting for the tray and they don't care if you put a tip on it or not. They are the most junior person in the whole place, often just hired with little clue of what is going on and are focused soley on tracking down the right table number to return the change and bring the tray back. If it was a scam to get more tips would they put that in the hands of this person? No, it would be the smart one that operates the neat little PDA's they use to place the orders.

Look around the next time you go and see what other customers do. They pretty much just ignore the person standing there (waiting to take the tray back) and it does not influence if they leave anything on it or not.

Sounds like your paranoia is getting out of control...

TH

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

There is a similar thread on General Topics, if this is not enough for you.

And I can get some more glory...

Or not!

Enjoy

[VBF]

Okay so before coming here I read by a couple sources that tipping in thailand is not really required as in if you don't tip it's no big deal. However, after being here 3 weeks now, many restaurants frown upon not tipping and some even ask for a tip. The way I see things now is that you should tip at western style restaurants and not thai style restaurants.... Should the tip always be about 10%? Trying to get this straight.

Tipping is one of the things that winds me up anywhere!

2 Incidents - both in Pattaya and both happened to me this year

Incident 1

I was in an a GoGo - late night happy hour, cheap beer. I had 1 beer for 45 Baht. Decided to go, called for my "bin", gave the waitress 100 Baht bill. She returned with the change and I picked up 50 Baht, leaving her 5 baht (which, although "small beer" is still a taxi ride in Pattaya and is more than 10% of the "bin").

Waitress looks at the tray and has the gall to say "5 Baht, is that all?" Thereupon I took the 5 Baht and said to her, "More than you're worth - sorry"

Incident 2

Went into a laundry with a favourite shirt that had lost 2 buttons - no other work for them. I asked "could you possibly fix this for me please?" Lady smiled, offered me a chair, switched on the fan and fixed my shirt. I then asked "Tao rai khrap?" Lady replied "Mai pen rai." Thereupon I handed her 40 Baht and thanked her - she tried to RETURN 20 Baht of it - big smiles all around!

And the moral of the story is - Tipping is UP TO YOU!!! Tip if you get good, polite, friendly service and if you feel you WANT to tip, do so. If you don't, make a statement by taking your change and leaving.

Well that's my 2 satang's worth anyway!

VBF

[Jingthing]

I haven't had anyone comment on my tip (at least verbally) but I do have a rule: if they ASK for a tip, there is no tip. To tip or not is up to me. I find asking (often in demanding WHINING tone ughhhh!) for a tip unspeakably vulgar and I hope others will join me in sending the message that this obnoxious behavior will result in the opposite result. I know tipping in general isn't traditionally Thai, but these whining/demands for tips, where did people get the idea this was acceptable?

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Jingthing and others, I am now VERY tired of this debate, and will not go any further (also on the thread in the General forum). It is getting tedious and a bit personal, and I have better things to do.

Why don't we just agree to disagree, and tip whatever we feel is the right amount in the circumstance?

All the best to all, and no hard feelings, OK?

[tropo]

Yep, waiting for the tray and they don't care if you put a tip on it or not. They are the most junior person in the whole place, often just hired with little clue of what is going on and are focused soley on tracking down the right table number to return the change and bring the tray back. If it was a scam to get more tips would they put that in the hands of this person? No, it would be the smart one that operates the neat little PDA's they use to place the orders.

Look around the next time you go and see what other customers do. They pretty much just ignore the person standing there (waiting to take the tray back) and it does not influence if they leave anything on it or not.

Sounds like your paranoia is getting out of control...

TH

No, it's not paranoia. It's a fact. They do this to increase their tips and it works.

Since when did you get the idea that it's only junior staff collecting tips?

I didn't say it's a scam. I said it's "a crafty way to increase tip revenue"...there's a big difference.

Maybe this technique doesn't work on people like you, but it works very well on many others.

[tropo]

Jingthing and others, I am now VERY tired of this debate, and will not go any further (also on the thread in the General forum). It is getting tedious and a bit personal, and I have better things to do.

Why don't we just agree to disagree, and tip whatever we feel is the right amount in the circumstance?

All the best to all, and no hard feelings, OK?

Try not clicking on the thread next time. It works wonders and you'll never have to read or reply to threads which bore you.

[tropo]

I haven't had anyone comment on my tip (at least verbally) but I do have a rule: if they ASK for a tip, there is no tip. To tip or not is up to me. I find asking (often in demanding WHINING tone ughhhh!) for a tip unspeakably vulgar and I hope others will join me in sending the message that this obnoxious behavior will result in the opposite result. I know tipping in general isn't traditionally Thai, but these whining/demands for tips, where did people get the idea this was acceptable?

I agree its not nice for someone to demand a tip...however...bargirls in Thailand are notorious for asking/demanding tips.

From their point of view it's a sound business practice which increases their income substantially....and I agree.

It's unlikely their ever going to see the customer again so why not ask. "Don't ask - Don't get" is their philosophy.

Sure, there are some people who will get offended, but usually they are the ones who had no intention of leaving a tip in the first place, or who walked off without leaving one.

[Jingthing]

Money given in response to a demand for money is something different than a tip. I have nothing against civilized tipping, I do it all the time, more than is needed in Thailand. But a tip is a reward for at least serviceable service, and the option not to give it is a way to say the service was bad (and it is usually obvious why).

As far as the common obnoxious practice of standing over you while you are tipping (or not) I agree the feeling of it is intimidation. But I don't respond well to intimidation unless accompanied by violence (like baht bus drivers) so I just zone out to the tactic and tip at the level I want anyway, doesn't change anything for me. I agree it is unpleasant and it feels like it is meant to be. If that was happening and for some reason I wasn't tipping anything, I would probably try to tell the person why there is no tip, even a simple service no good. Speaking of zoning out, this is something I believe is a Thai cultural thing that I have embraced; if something is unpleasant, just zone out, everyone wins.

We are all coming from different tipping cultures, and adjusting to Thai tipping culture, which has been corrupted by diverse tipping cultures, so no, it isn't as simple as some people say. You kind of have to find your own way on the issue, but I don't see the point of harshly judging others choices, such as tipping totally traditional Thai style or overdoing it and showing off (up to you)!

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[plasticpig]

Old habits are hard to break. As an American, I don't really tip so much out of the goodness of my heart, I tip out of guilt, because it is expected, and also to avoid having waiters defile my food with body fluids if I don't tip. In the US, not tipping could result in a very unpleasant public scene with a waiter chasing you out of the restaurant to demand WHY, so years of this kind of conditioning takes its toll. Do I think tipping is a good practice? No. But it has spread to many places in Thailand, so I just see it as another tax.

Its so arbitrary also. We tip waiters. There are so many other basic services provided by low wage people that we get that we don't tip. Why waiters? Again, probably because they can sabotage your food?

As much as I love the American people, you guys have fcuked it up

for tipping all round the world.

[tropo]

As much as I love the American people, you guys have fcuked it up

for tipping all round the world.

So true!

[Cuban]

Credit card slip may leave one line for you to put down the tip, rounding up the number to the nearest figure is also a done thing or just give a dash that should be OK.

In Thailand you will be paying an extra % for using a credit card anyway, also if somewhere accepts cards it is very unlikely that they will pass the extra "rounding up" to the staff. Pay by card, then leave 20 Baht etc.

As for MK in Pattaya, they are hugely overpriced for the food and the service they offer. Yes, they have an extensive training reprograming course for staff, so unless you want exactly what is on the menu you are bound to be disapointed, in particular with regard to ice in drinks. A small point but enough to keep me out of the place. I would be interested in what the staff pay structure is.

Compared to some of the serve yourself buffets (outside Pattaya in Thai "only" areas) MK's food is poor, at the buffets the staff are freed to focus on serving/pouring/re-filling your drinks, bringing extra napkins, clearing tables etc.

....just remembered the sole redeeming feature of MK, the Dim Sum, not perfect but OK.

[njpski]

a thought - at a self-service buffet, do you tip yourself???

[paul1970]

As for MK in Pattaya, they are hugely overpriced for the food and the service they offer. Yes, they have an extensive training reprograming course for staff, so unless you want exactly what is on the menu you are bound to be disapointed, in particular with regard to ice in drinks. A small point but enough to keep me out of the place. I would be interested in what the staff pay structure is.

My girlfriend used to work in MK and BBQ Plaza and I can tell you that she got 32 Baht an hour at MK and 36 Baht an hour at BBQ Plaza. She also said that she's never work again at MK as the staff are treated like dirt but apparantly like working for BBQ Plaza.

Amazes me how they can get the motivation to get out of bed for such terrible wages and I really don't begrudge giving tips to people on such low wages. I'm from the UK but lived in California for 3 years and I have to say the the whole tipping thing over there is just B/S.

[tropo]

My girlfriend used to work in MK and BBQ Plaza and I can tell you that she got 32 Baht an hour at MK and 36 Baht an hour at BBQ Plaza. She also said that she's never work again at MK as the staff are treated like dirt but apparantly like working for BBQ Plaza.

Amazes me how they can get the motivation to get out of bed for such terrible wages and I really don't begrudge giving tips to people on such low wages. I'm from the UK but lived in California for 3 years and I have to say the the whole tipping thing over there is just B/S.

You should get around SE Asia a little and see what people are paid here. There's no point comparing their wages here to back in California. What's wrong with 32 baht per hour? They could work construction or on farms for far less.

If these people were paid according to what you consider a decent wage, it's unlikely you'd even be here because it would be too expensive.

[Cuban]

a thought - at a self-service buffet, do you tip yourself???

There's always one !

Just my point, how often have you thought to yourself; "...it's easier if I do it myself...", getting the right size portion of meat vs rice or slightly less strawberry chemical flavoured topping on your ice cream with more nuts etc etc.

With the DIY buffet the staff do their job of pouring drinks when you glass is empty, clearing empty plates and re-stocking the buffet table, for which I am happy to tip. As each staff member has their own section of the place to look after I know the person that looks after us gets the money, generally we sit in the same place when it's not raining so they (she) knows I tip and greets us by name when we arrive.

How does that compare with radio advertised farang places that will add "service" to your bill and then leave a space for you to round up the CC slip ? (...and you are aware the extra will not filter down to the staff that probably do work to provide over and above what they HAVE to do.)

[wineaux]

10 percent is a good tip in Thailand and I do not think Thai people follow that rule, especially with higher tabs. Leaving 20 baht for an average meal is OK. No need to tip at street restaurants. I do tip but if the service is very bad (common in Pattaya), no tip. I also have an issue with clearly family run places where the owner serves you also. I am not sure they need a tip, they own they business.

What do (would) you do at MK's if the service was no good. They stand next to you when they return your change and don't leave until you tip them. Not sure about that they just wait for you ro return the tray. Simply take the money from the tray and return it.

AH, Tropo! You found one of my very few exceptions! What the *ell is the problem with MK's training program?! I really like most of the food in there; but I have NEVER been in an MK where the service can even be described as "service". Most times, they get at least one item on the order wrong. it takes them forever to take your order; and forever and a day to bring you the food - nearly always one item at a time! It is the worst restaurant of it's kind that I've found in the Pattaya area. I do still leave a tip, most of the time. But it's rarely over 20 baht, regardless of the bill!

I am much more tolerant of poor service in tiny, inexpensive Thai restaurants. They're lucky to survive, and most have no formal restaurant management experience at all. There is no excuse for a major chain like MK having such consistently poor training, and bad service.

I eat in MK about once a month for lunch in various locations in Pattaya. I have to say my experience is the complete opposite to yours. The girl immediatly takes our order, drinks and dipping sauce arrive, then the food arrvies almost immediatly. In 4 years they've never got anything wrong. Regarding the bill and tipping we hand our discount card get our 10% off they return the change which we take then hand them back the tray. Simple.

[wineaux]

What do (would) you do at MK's if the service was no good. They stand next to you when they return your change and don't leave until you tip them.

They are not standing there waiting for the tip, they are standing there waiting for you take your change (and sign the bill if you have member card and get the discount) so they can get the tray back. It is normal to leave the loose change and maybe 20 baht. If the service was poor (unusual, but not unheard of in MK) don't leave anything and just hand the tray back. It makes no difference for the person standing there what you do. From what I have seen in the large MK's, this is the sole job for the person bringing back the change. Seems to be the first task a new person is given.

TH

Get out of here. Waiting for the tray?

I have no member card and they'll wait for as long as it takes. You know exactly what it is...it's a crafty way of increasing tip revenue....and it works.

Yep, waiting for the tray and they don't care if you put a tip on it or not. They are the most junior person in the whole place, often just hired with little clue of what is going on and are focused soley on tracking down the right table number to return the change and bring the tray back. If it was a scam to get more tips would they put that in the hands of this person? No, it would be the smart one that operates the neat little PDA's they use to place the orders.

Look around the next time you go and see what other customers do. They pretty much just ignore the person standing there (waiting to take the tray back) and it does not influence if they leave anything on it or not.

Sounds like your paranoia is getting out of control...

TH

Exactly, I agree

[zorro1]

Never tip if there are add ons like 10 % service and vat.

[tropo]

They are not standing there waiting for the tip, they are standing there waiting for you take your change

Exactly, I agree

That's funny, they're not waiting for a tip, only your change.

I thought that's exactly what a tip was. How many people pull a bill out of their pockets to tip?

[patsfangr]

As much as I love the American people, you guys have fcuked it up

for tipping all round the world.

So true!

As an American, who, I'm positive, loves the American people more than you do, I also agree! I hasten to add, however, that this can't be blamed on any American still living. I don't know when this outrageous custom began; but I do know that it was around a very long time ago. As I noted earlier in this thread, I'd really be interested in seeing the true history of the tipping custom; and, in particular the accepted practice of paying minimum wage, or only slightly higher, to servers, with all parties agreeing that the difference would be made up in tips. And exactly when did the goverment get into the picture with an "assumption" of tip income in the tax structure.

I, like virtually all non-Americans, wish we could turn back the clock, and eliminate it. But I'm afraid that is a practical impossibilty. We'll just have to live with it. Sort of like we Americans have to live with the billions of our dollars, and, more importantly, the thousands of American lives that the goverment spends to give aid throughout the world to people who, almost without exception, spit our faces, whether literally or figuratively, at every opportunity.

[Jingthing]

we Americans have to live with the billions of our dollars, and, more importantly, the thousands of American lives that the goverment spends to give aid throughout the world to people who, almost without exception, spit our faces, whether literally or figuratively, at every opportunity.

Well, also as an American, do you really think the aid Americans have given over the years was mostly for selfless reasons? Neither does the world. How about Iraq, thats quite a charity mission. Grow up, the world doesn't respect naive self pitying Americans.. And read up on this history of one of those countries, say ... Panama. Why do they hate us? It sure ain't because of our "freedoms".

That said, I do think we and the Russkies saved the world in WW2, but you can't rest on your laurels forever.

I have read the tipping culture of the US reflects European tipping culture during the early times of European immigration (obviously without the set percentages and tax implications) but the Europeans progressed, we didn't. Could say the same thing about health care systems.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Jingthing

[justbob]

no need to give 10% from check

200-700 baht check - 20 baht tips

700-2000 - 40 baht

5000+ - 100 baht

it's thai culture . info from russian expats forum.