C M Has A Lot To Offer, But Can It Offer More? What?

[MyPenRye]

This is a multiple choice poll designed to find out if there are needs that are not being met in C M. Maybe someone can or something will take place after this poll. Who knows?

This is not at all conducted for any other purpose.

I have lived on and off in C M for the last 3 years and I can say I like Cm! If not why would I come back?

But, like all things it might be improved.

I have put a list of questions/choices for you to answer. I have probably left out some items. If so, post.

I will make a follow-up poll, should there be a need for it, to find out more about what is needed.

Regards,

MPR

(BTW, some of the choices are supposed to be funny. I will let some of the brightest members here guess as to what those are.)

Edited December 5, 2007 by p1p
p1p edited at OP's request

[chanchao]

I appreciate the effort you put into the poll! For sure some people will say "But why didn't you include xyz!" but that's inevitable; if anyone misses an option just list it in a reply.

[tigerbeer]

if you asking about getting more tourists here and more people(farangs) to live here then get more red light districts. thats the only and surest way to get the $$$ into economy. and thats reality.

otherwise if you are asking about improving chiang mai for those of us who live here, its already good enough. let it be this way.

[THAILIBAN]

decent public transport is indeed needed, me thinks. though, no secondary city in South-East-Asia actually has that. if, then only the capitals have a good or acceptable public-transport system (Manila, KL.....)

safety at night for sure needs a HUGE improvement too. I would rather walk the streets of Bangkok at night than at CM these days....

and didnt u miss one thing in your comprehensive listing ? "Improve the drainage and flood-prevention-system"

thats probably the most important infrastructure task for CM....

[MyPenRye]

decent public transport is indeed needed, me thinks. though, no secondary city in South-East-Asia actually has that. if, then only the capitals have a good or acceptable public-transport system (Manila, KL.....)

safety at night for sure needs a HUGE improvement too. I would rather walk the streets of Bangkok at night than at CM these days....

and didnt u miss one thing in your comprehensive listing ? "Improve the drainage and flood-prevention-system"

thats probably the most important infrastructure task for CM....

Yes! Mea culpa! An oversight, probably as I had not had to endure this huge inconvenience,... yet! An inconvenience or rather a real problem for businesses, I suppose!

[Ulysses G.]

if you asking about getting more tourists here and more people(farangs) to live here then get more red light districts. thats the only and surest way to get the $$$ into economy. and thats reality.

Great minds think alike tigerbeer.

Everyone is asking why tourism has gone steadily down ever since the morality campaigns a few years ago.

Because they chased away the Golden Goose: The sextourists and "regular" tourists who enjoy the whole atmosphere of being around something that is not easy to observe safely in other countries because it is only alowed to exist in dangerous redlight districts where normal people fear to tread. Adult sex tourism is this countries' bread and butter.

[PlaShadow]

if you asking about getting more tourists here and more people(farangs) to live here then get more red light districts. thats the only and surest way to get the $ into economy. and thats reality.

Great minds think alike tigerbeer.

Everyone is asking why tourism has gone steadily down ever since the morality campaigns a few years ago.

Because they chased away the Golden Goose: The sextourists and "regular" tourists who enjoy the whole atmosphere of being around something that is not easy to observe safely in other countries because it is only alowed to exist in dangerous redlight districts where normal people fear to tread. Adult sex tourism is this countries' bread and butter.

You must be joking right? If not, then please print this and stick it in front of all your book shops as a reminder to others what you think of this country. Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

[chanchao]

Now now.. I think we can all agree that TOURISM brings a good amount of money into the Thai economy; don't know the percentage but detailed data is available from the TAT website.

I think we can also agree that there's a couple types of tourism:

1. Budget travellers / Backpackers

2. Tour Groups

3. Sex tourists (or tourist for whom the bar scene and/or romance and/or sex is at least part of the reason for visiting Thailand)

4. Frequent visitors who come for the beaches, golf, food, lifestyle, awesome used book stores, etc.

I. I think there's considerable overlap between 3. and 4. Also they're the only groups who can reasonably be called RETURN CUSTOMERS, i.e. they visit frequently.

II. Groups 1 and 2 are on the decline. Thailand is getting more expensive, surrounding countries are getting more accessible, Thailand is not perceived as particularly cool or adventurous as a traveller's destination. Tour Groups from Western countries are also on the decline, but this is mitigated somewhat by increased tour visitors from former Eastern Block countries, Koreans, Chinese, Indians, etc. HOWEVER, this shift IS a problem for Chiang Mai, because for example China has a metric fcukton of hilltribes right there, so Chinese visitors are severely unlikely to visit Chiang Mai to go trekking or sit on bamboo raft.

In this summary I'd say that ["tourists for whom the bar scene and/or romance and/or sex is at least part of the reason for visiting"] is a sizebable chunk of the pie. (Or are you denying that? --question). And, at least for Chiang Mai, group 3 is in SHARP decline. Most people in group 3. now only visit Pattaya, Samui or Phuket.. Talk about Chiang Mai and it doesn't seem to excite as much as it used to. This hurts the general tourist trade, because in contrast to popular opinion, sex tourists spend a whole lot of time and money on other things than directly on bars and sex.

Edited December 4, 2007 by chanchao

[PeaceBlondie]

I tried to add "flood control and drainage" to the poll, but I don't think it worked.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

if you asking about getting more tourists here and more people(farangs) to live here then get more red light districts. thats the only and surest way to get the $ into economy. and thats reality.

Great minds think alike tigerbeer.

Everyone is asking why tourism has gone steadily down ever since the morality campaigns a few years ago.

Because they chased away the Golden Goose: The sextourists and "regular" tourists who enjoy the whole atmosphere of being around something that is not easy to observe safely in other countries because it is only alowed to exist in dangerous redlight districts where normal people fear to tread. Adult sex tourism is this countries' bread and butter.

You must be joking right? If not, then please print this and stick it in front of all your book shops as a reminder to others what you think of this country. Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

you are sipping sweet Koolaid... If the available attractive girls where out of the equation Thailand would have drastically fewer tourists. Maybe you call that relationship or lifestyle tourism instead of sex tourism but its basically the same thing.

Also how come Clean Air was taken out of the survey?

[Blinky Bill]

I think the Immigration Authorites should introduce IQ tests on foreigners that intend to live here. Say with a cut-off at about 90. That'd certainly get rid of most of the dills wandering around the country. Actually it'd probably get rid of most of the ex-pats.

[KevinHunt]

if you asking about getting more tourists here and more people(farangs) to live here then get more red light districts. thats the only and surest way to get the $ into economy. and thats reality.

Great minds think alike tigerbeer.

Everyone is asking why tourism has gone steadily down ever since the morality campaigns a few years ago.

Because they chased away the Golden Goose: The sextourists and "regular" tourists who enjoy the whole atmosphere of being around something that is not easy to observe safely in other countries because it is only alowed to exist in dangerous redlight districts where normal people fear to tread. Adult sex tourism is this countries' bread and butter.

You must be joking right? If not, then please print this and stick it in front of all your book shops as a reminder to others what you think of this country. Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

I couldn't agree with ypu more. Sex Tourism has been on the decline for a long time. Let's hope the trend continues. Most tourists are coming on a reguar holiday for sea, sun and adventure, and I believe that despite what the 'Thailand is not the same' brigade think, the majority have a great time and a fair few return.

[Ulysses G.]

You must be joking right? Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

Of course I'm not joking.

Anyone who doesn't think that tourism is one of Thailand's biggest money earners is missing a few marbles and Thailand's night life and demimondaines are famous the world over. They are some of the reasons why so many tourists come here and some of the things that make Thailand unique. They are a big part of what makes Thailand so amazing.

By the way, "slur and slander" only apply to things that are not true. What you are "tired" of is people who don't agree with your Puritanical views.

[KevinHunt]

You must be joking right? Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

Of course I'm not joking.

Anyone who doesn't think that tourism is one of Thailand's biggest money earners is missing a few marbles and Thailand's night life and demimondaines are famous the world over. They are some of the reasons why so many tourists come here and some of the things that make Thailand unique. They are a big part of what makes Thailand so amazing.

By the way, "slur and slander" only apply to things that are not true. What you are "tired" of is people who don't agree with your Puritanical views.

You said that sex Tourism was this countries bread and butter, not tourism.

Tourism is certainly important, but Sex Tourism is a small part of it these days. The fact that most of the girly bars are empty year round is testament to that. There aren't many bars on Loi Kroh where the 'staff' outnumber the customers.

The pimps that come here to run girly bars are struggling I imagine.

[tigerbeer]

I couldn't agree with you more. Sex Tourism has been on the decline for a long time. Let's hope the trend continues. Most tourists are coming on a reguar holiday for sea, sun and adventure, and I believe that despite what the 'Thailand is not the same' brigade think, the majority have a great time and a fair few return.

i have been here 6 years now and still have yet to find a beach near chiang mai. pattaya? now we're talking sea, sun, adventure and a hel_l lot of nightlife. and if you trying to tell me that tourists go to pattaya predominately for sea, sun and adventure, you are just kidding yourself.

sex tourism been on a decline for a long time? sure, not cause of the tourists but the new regulations that pertain to the nightlife.

wake up and smell the coffee

[KevinHunt]

I couldn't agree with you more. Sex Tourism has been on the decline for a long time. Let's hope the trend continues. Most tourists are coming on a reguar holiday for sea, sun and adventure, and I believe that despite what the 'Thailand is not the same' brigade think, the majority have a great time and a fair few return.

i have been here 6 years now and still have yet to find a beach near chiang mai. pattaya? now we're talking sea, sun, adventure and a hel_l lot of nightlife. and if you trying to tell me that tourists go to pattaya predominately for sea, sun and adventure, you are just kidding yourself.

sex tourism been on a decline for a long time? sure, not cause of the tourists but the new regulations that pertain to the nightlife.

wake up and smell the coffee

I've been here for 18 years, and I haven't seen a beach in Chiang Mai, either.

From Chiang Mai, most tourists go to the islands or beaches. Does that explain my statement. Not too difficult was it?

[Ulysses G.]

You said that sex Tourism was this countries bread and butter, not tourism.

Yes, and I explained that the night life here is a BIG part of what has made tourism such a big earner. You take that away and you take away the reason that so many tourists come here including couples and open-minded families that just like the atmosphere of places like Phuket.

What do tourists talk about when they recommend Thailand, anyway? I have yet to meet a tourist raving about Thailand's beaches or temples being any more interesting than beaches or temples anywhere else.

[tigerbeer]

From Chiang Mai, most tourists go to the islands or beaches. Does that explain my statement. Not too difficult was it?

they tell you this while you have coffee with them in starbucks?

[MyPenRye]

Thanks for all of you who have voted!

And thanks for the constructive comments, too!

I hope all have found (or will find ) the results to be informative. I have!

I will continue to monitor the results and offer follow-up polls, should there be a need for them to understand better what are the needs of expats here! One hope that local governments (and entrepeneurs) are reading this! What are the chances? Should I email the results to them?

I have noticed that the 2nd part of the poll is gone! Maybe there was/is a glitch somewhere or --perhaps-- something more nefarious took place! I did not think I had offended anyone? I don't suppose I will ever know, so ... my pen rye!

BTW, I am enjoying reading the views of expats on this topic !

Regards,

Edited December 4, 2007 by MyPenRye

[chanchao]

I have noticed that the 2nd part of the poll is gone! Maybe there was/is a glitch somewhere or --perhaps-- something more nefarious took place!

In this particular case: I don't think so. PeaceBlondie said he had tried to add some option... I guess that had something to do with it.

Tourism is certainly important, but Sex Tourism is a small part of it these days. The fact that most of the girly bars are empty year round is testament to that.

I think you missed my post earlier. Been to Pattaya or Samui lately? There's MORE sex tourists than ever before in Thailand's history. The phenomena we're entertaining at the moment is that they're not coming to Chiang Mai. (To your endless delight, no doubt.

There aren't many bars on Loi Kroh where the 'staff' outnumber the customers.

Now there's a scary prospect.. A bar where the customers outnumber the staff.. YIKES..!! Definitely nightmare material.

The pimps that come here to run girly bars are struggling I imagine.

You seem to assume that most bars are foreign owned? Do you get around at all?

Edited December 4, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

I think the Immigration Authorites should introduce IQ tests on foreigners that intend to live here. Say with a cut-off at about 90. That'd certainly get rid of most of the dills wandering around the country. Actually it'd probably get rid of most of the ex-pats.

Now there's a suggestion that would be devastating to this forum.

[Blinky Bill]

I think the Immigration Authorites should introduce IQ tests on foreigners that intend to live here. Say with a cut-off at about 90. That'd certainly get rid of most of the dills wandering around the country. Actually it'd probably get rid of most of the ex-pats.

Now there's a suggestion that would be devastating to this forum.

The thought never crossed my mind....... Had a comment like that come from my fingers I think I'd be taking another holiday.

BTW. Where did Some-Poo-Tong get to?

[elephantkungfu]

[quote name='Ulysses G.'

Adult sex tourism is this countries' bread and butter.

i remember reading somewhere that tourism only makes up for about 5 percent of thailands income. that's less than the fishing industry. and that's all the tourists, not just sex tourists. so... this countries bread and butter? don't think so.

there is more to this country than the sex industry. but if you never leave the hooker bars, then you don't see it. so you assume thats all there is...

[chanchao]

Got canned for a play of words that unbeknownst to him also carried a derogatory meaning, also after clarifying and apologizing for the misunderstanding. A contributing factor was another post in which he suggested that a good direction to send Farang beggars at BTS stations in would be straight down.

Good riddance.

[chanchao]

i remember reading somewhere that tourism only makes up for about 5 percent of thailands income.

Which is huge, especially as all of it is direct foreign currency flowing in.

that's less than the fishing industry. and that's all the tourists, not just sex tourists. so... this countries bread and butter? don't think so.

Granted, Thailand would survive without tourism.. Though I also submit that part of the reason why companies establish themselves in Thailand is the 'Western friendly' tourist infrastructure already in place. Honestly any random mega-city in China or Indonesia would be just as good for a regional head quarters.. But.. people don't want to be there, live there or do business there.

So the 5-6% of direct foreign cash is already huge, and the effect it has on creating an international, cosmopolitan kind of environment further helps other sectors.

there is more to this country than the sex industry. but if you never leave the hooker bars, then you don't see it. so you assume thats all there is...

"If you never leave the hooker bars"... Come on.. You get newbies on the Lonely Planet forum making those kinds of swipes.. You should realize that everyone here occasionally leaves the hooker bars, if only to post on Thaivisa. And when I earlier had my groups 3 and 4 and suggested a lot of overlap I wasn't kidding; people don't ONLY come for the sex, they come for a package of beaches, golfing, food AND fun in the bars.

[monkeyclub]

Someone mentioned transport

CM would definately appreciate a useable road system/upgrade.

Someone mentioned redlight's

CM definately does'nt require the maggots/criminals/kiddie lovers/wanna be mafio's/neanderthols and sex pest's that pattaya, phuket etc have by the plane load. Am I arrogant, yes. keep the shit down south. Of course it exists in CM, but I don't want it blatantly crawling from every soi.

Someone mentioned the economy/tourist industry

Thailand as a nation, is beyond debate, known to first time visitors the world over as a corrupt, cheap sex pest destination thats fact. It would definately hurt the economy if by sudden chance the entire (illegal) sex industry disappeared over night. However, it's not all TH has.

(as long as you don't mind being charged foreigners price to enter) but thats another story. F@^& off followed by Uturn.

[rrose070]

I didn't see any thingie to vote. Am I just too late?

[JimsKnight]

You must be joking right? Do you think the sex industry is a larger money earner then say the auto industry in Thailand? Larger then rice exports? Larger then chicken produce exports? Larger then the rubber product industry?

Tired of this slur and slander from foreigners about Thailand ……………………..

Of course I'm not joking.

Anyone who doesn't think that tourism is one of Thailand's biggest money earners is missing a few marbles and Thailand's night life and demimondaines are famous the world over. They are some of the reasons why so many tourists come here and some of the things that make Thailand unique. They are a big part of what makes Thailand so amazing.

By the way, "slur and slander" only apply to things that are not true. What you are "tired" of is people who don't agree with your Puritanical views.

You tell 'em Uly! The temperance movements on the march tonight

I voted for more nightclubs, more women and more condos.

If there was an option for 'Actual shows and acts to take place at the go-go joints' I would of ticked that as well

Also, allowing more late drinking licences to be issued to venues would also increase tourism and economy as well.

At present only about 5 are allowed to be issued at any one time!

This is something expats and fresh tourists alike find common ground in arguing against coming to Chiang Mai. It's not about the girls so much as a place to hang out drinking in till the wee hours

Places that Chiang Mai doesn't really have a lot of.

That means most bars and venues have to shut at either midnight or one in the morning. Lame lame lame.

[KevinHunt]

From Chiang Mai, most tourists go to the islands or beaches. Does that explain my statement. Not too difficult was it?

they tell you this while you have coffee with them in starbucks?

What is your point?

Most tourists go south to the islands, or beaches after leaving Chiang Mia. What is there to dispute about there?

[KevinHunt]

I have noticed that the 2nd part of the poll is gone! Maybe there was/is a glitch somewhere or --perhaps-- something more nefarious took place!

In this particular case: I don't think so. PeaceBlondie said he had tried to add some option... I guess that had something to do with it.

Tourism is certainly important, but Sex Tourism is a small part of it these days. The fact that most of the girly bars are empty year round is testament to that.

I think you missed my post earlier. Been to Pattaya or Samui lately? There's MORE sex tourists than ever before in Thailand's history. The phenomena we're entertaining at the moment is that they're not coming to Chiang Mai. (To your endless delight, no doubt.

There aren't many bars on Loi Kroh where the 'staff' outnumber the customers.

Now there's a scary prospect.. A bar where the customers outnumber the staff.. YIKES..!! Definitely nightmare material.

The pimps that come here to run girly bars are struggling I imagine.

You seem to assume that most bars are foreign owned? Do you get around at all?

That's only a little sentence.

Read it again.

Have you finished?

Read it once more, just to be sure.

Done that?

Now, who's making the assumptions?

Yes, I do get around. Nice of you to ask.