D'ma Pavilion Hotel Blacklist

[ClaytonSeymour]

I've just seen this, anyone else seen it/had any problems?

http://www.dmahotel.com/blacklist/

Edited December 4, 2007 by ClaytonSeymour

[onethailand]

Interesting. Never seen a hotel actually publish a blacklist, but it might be that they've been burnt a few times.

Some of the names on the list I am not surprised to see. But at least one of them was a minor surprise. And one I expected to be on the list was not there.

Let's just say, for the moment, that there are indeed some shenanigans by some online booking agencies. Not least amongst them are prices which are simply not possible, or prices which breach the contract signed with the hotel - if they have a contract at all.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Interesting. Never seen a hotel actually publish a blacklist, but it might be that they've been burnt a few times.

Some of the names on the list I am not surprised to see. But at least one of them was a minor surprise. And one I expected to be on the list was not there.

Let's just say, for the moment, that there are indeed some shenanigans by some online booking agencies. Not least amongst them are prices which are simply not possible, or prices which breach the contract signed with the hotel - if they have a contract at all.

I don't know when the list was published but, I would have thought that TUI would have enough clout to get Asiarooms removed from this list, perhaps they don't know about it yet?

Stayed at the D'Ma twice - five years ago, first occasion booked with Planet Holiday and second occasion with Asiarooms.

[onethailand]

It may be that TUI is not yet aware of the problem. For all we know, even Asiarooms is not aware of the problem.

I have heard of other hotels who will not accept bookings from certain online booking sites as well, so it's definitely not an isolated problem. This is one reason I've gone through the rigamarole of getting contracts for each hotel for my own purposes.

I should point out something else, however - hotel contracts are far from standard - unlike what I thought it would be like. To catch every unusual condition in a contract is quite difficult when you need to standardize the process of data gathering. So it is entirely possible that some of the problems that the other online booking sites had were unintended as well.

[bino]

I've just seen this, anyone else seen it/had any problems?

http://www.dmahotel.com/blacklist/

I'm curious to know how you found it... search engine?

I think it is out of date, because the page does not match the rest of the pages in the current D'Ma website, and I couldn't find a link to this page anywhere in the current site either.

[onethailand]

The first "blacklist" page was published in September 2005. The latest update took place in February.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.dm....com/blacklist/

asiarooms has been on this list since day one.

It doesn't appear to be linked to the main site at the moment, but there are incoming links to that page from a number of other forums and sites.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I've just seen this, anyone else seen it/had any problems?

http://www.dmahotel.com/blacklist/

I'm curious to know how you found it... search engine?

I think it is out of date, because the page does not match the rest of the pages in the current D'Ma website, and I couldn't find a link to this page anywhere in the current site either.

On their home page, scroll down the left hand side menu and click on Check Reservation, at the top of the new page, underneath Check your reservation you have the option to Click here to see the blacklist web sites. Below it states, We are not honour and not responsible for booking from unauthorized internet web site. If you have made reservation for our hotel through other internet web site, please fill in the form below to check for your reservation status. We will check and inform you within 24 hours.

[bino]

On their home page, scroll down the left hand side menu and click on Check Reservation, at the top of the new page, underneath Check your reservation you have the option to Click here to see the blacklist web sites. Below it states, We are not honour and not responsible for booking from unauthorized internet web site. If you have made reservation for our hotel through other internet web site, please fill in the form below to check for your reservation status. We will check and inform you within 24 hours.

I didn't see that- tks!

[lopburi3]

We went around with this question once before. If you go to the very bottom of hotel home page there is a link to below (middle man) booking service. This appears to be an exclusive type operation and the OP blacklist website seems to match this website to my casual observer eye: http://www.oha-thailand.com/

[onethailand]

We went around with this question once before. If you go to the very bottom of hotel home page there is a link to below (middle man) booking service. This appears to be an exclusive type operation and the OP blacklist website seems to match this website to my casual observer eye: http://www.oha-thailand.com/

Let me see if I understand this correctly... D'ma Pavilion is apparently a member of this online hotel alliance. What you are saying is that websites which are on the D'ma blacklist are not using this alliance?

[ThaiHotels]

I've just seen this, anyone else seen it/had any problems?

http://www.dmahotel.com/blacklist/

Hope to put across my opinion. My website is also on this list. The Hard Rock Pattaya also have a list. This list tells me that these websites are using wholesalers to book the DMA.

The Majestic Grande Bangkok also stipulates that any website must have the same prices as their own. We cannot sell cheaper than their own? I did remark with the Director of Sales that if we abide, why would the customer book with another site and not need to prepay when they can book direct with the hotel and pay at the hotel?

Most online booking agencies do not have hotel contracts, but use 6 or so large wholesalers who give better prices than contacting the hotels direct. These players are Diethelm Travel, Asian Trails, Pacific World, Turismo part of Tui who now own Asia Rooms etc.Its not that strange as most online agencies do not have direct contracts, and any new companies that want contracts with hotels will be give silly prices. I can buy from one of these wholesalers and add on 12% profit and still be cheaper than buying direct from the hotel.

Quite a few hotels in Bangkok and some upcountry do not allow online websites to sell their hotels. As websites undercut the hotel's by quite a margin. Everyone company knows this. However as most online booking agencies still book and sell to their customers. They issue their own voucher or use the wholesalers voucher. How will the hotel know? A prime example of this is The Accor group, which includes the Novotel Siam Square amongst others. We still sell it and many webs now do not advertise it.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ThaiHotels

[Jimjim]

I'd like to blacklist the D'ma Pavilion Hotel myself because I couldn't find it when trying to take a friend there 3 years ago. We drove around for a few hours before giving up and finding another hotel. Interestingly enough, he had booked it online. I wonder if he used a correct site?

[ClaytonSeymour]

I've just seen this, anyone else seen it/had any problems?

http://www.dmahotel.com/blacklist/

Hope to put across my opinion. My website is also on this list. The Hard Rock Pattaya also have a list. This list tells me that these websites are using wholesalers to book the DMA.

The Majestic Grande Bangkok also stipulates that any website must have the same prices as their own. We cannot sell cheaper than their own? I did remark with the Director of Sales that if we abide, why would the customer book with another site and not need to prepay when they can book direct with the hotel and pay at the hotel?

Most online booking agencies do not have hotel contracts, but use 6 or so large wholesalers who give better prices than contacting the hotels direct. These players are Diethelm Travel, Asian Trails, Pacific World, Turismo part of Tui who now own Asia Rooms etc.Its not that strange as most online agencies do not have direct contracts, and any new companies that want contracts with hotels will be give silly prices. I can buy from one of these wholesalers and add on 12% profit and still be cheaper than buying direct from the hotel.

Quite a few hotels in Bangkok and some upcountry do not allow online websites to sell their hotels. As websites undercut the hotel's by quite a margin. Everyone company knows this. However as most online booking agencies still book and sell to their customers. They issue their own voucher or use the wholesalers voucher. How will the hotel know? If the customer is naive enough to enquire about their reservation and advise the hotel they've booked through an agent on the hotel's blacklist A prime example of this is The Accor group, which includes the Novotel Siam Square amongst others. We still sell it and many webs now do not advertise it.

[onethailand]

Hope to put across my opinion. My website is also on this list. The Hard Rock Pattaya also have a list. This list tells me that these websites are using wholesalers to book the DMA.

The Majestic Grande Bangkok also stipulates that any website must have the same prices as their own. We cannot sell cheaper than their own? I did remark with the Director of Sales that if we abide, why would the customer book with another site and not need to prepay when they can book direct with the hotel and pay at the hotel?

Strangely enough, I noticed this as well but have not taken it up with them yet. But they are far from the only hotel to have this type of strict rule.

You're right about the wholesalers. I've gone the hard route with my own contracts. Any contract which is not competitive will simply be left out for another year, upon renewal the hotel will be told exactly why we will not promote them until they level the playing field a bit.

Most online booking agencies do not have hotel contracts, but use 6 or so large wholesalers who give better prices than contacting the hotels direct. These players are Diethelm Travel, Asian Trails, Pacific World, Turismo part of Tui who now own Asia Rooms etc.Its not that strange as most online agencies do not have direct contracts, and any new companies that want contracts with hotels will be give silly prices. I can buy from one of these wholesalers and add on 12% profit and still be cheaper than buying direct from the hotel.

Quite a few hotels in Bangkok and some upcountry do not allow online websites to sell their hotels. As websites undercut the hotel's by quite a margin. Everyone company knows this. However as most online booking agencies still book and sell to their customers. They issue their own voucher or use the wholesalers voucher. How will the hotel know? A prime example of this is The Accor group, which includes the Novotel Siam Square amongst others. We still sell it and many webs now do not advertise it.

Again, I think I'm going about this a bit differently. We are carefully reviewing the rules with each hotel - I am not going to waste my time going through a wholesaler. Either the price we get is competitive, or it is not, but in any case there is no sense creating another point of potential communication breakdown - the hotel deals direct with us so when we get a confirmation we know it is good. If they don't honor a confirmation, they get removed for good as well. No middleman wholesaler to mess things up.

[ThaiHotels]

Hope to put across my opinion. My website is also on this list. The Hard Rock Pattaya also have a list. This list tells me that these websites are using wholesalers to book the DMA.

The Majestic Grande Bangkok also stipulates that any website must have the same prices as their own. We cannot sell cheaper than their own? I did remark with the Director of Sales that if we abide, why would the customer book with another site and not need to prepay when they can book direct with the hotel and pay at the hotel?

Strangely enough, I noticed this as well but have not taken it up with them yet. But they are far from the only hotel to have this type of strict rule.

You're right about the wholesalers. I've gone the hard route with my own contracts. Any contract which is not competitive will simply be left out for another year, upon renewal the hotel will be told exactly why we will not promote them until they level the playing field a bit.

Most online booking agencies do not have hotel contracts, but use 6 or so large wholesalers who give better prices than contacting the hotels direct. These players are Diethelm Travel, Asian Trails, Pacific World, Turismo part of Tui who now own Asia Rooms etc.Its not that strange as most online agencies do not have direct contracts, and any new companies that want contracts with hotels will be give silly prices. I can buy from one of these wholesalers and add on 12% profit and still be cheaper than buying direct from the hotel.

Quite a few hotels in Bangkok and some upcountry do not allow online websites to sell their hotels. As websites undercut the hotel's by quite a margin. Everyone company knows this. However as most online booking agencies still book and sell to their customers. They issue their own voucher or use the wholesalers voucher. How will the hotel know? A prime example of this is The Accor group, which includes the Novotel Siam Square amongst others. We still sell it and many webs now do not advertise it.

Again, I think I'm going about this a bit differently. We are carefully reviewing the rules with each hotel - I am not going to waste my time going through a wholesaler. Either the price we get is competitive, or it is not, but in any case there is no sense creating another point of potential communication breakdown - the hotel deals direct with us so when we get a confirmation we know it is good. If they don't honor a confirmation, they get removed for good as well. No middleman wholesaler to mess things up.

OneThailand. Not sure how the wholesaler would mix things up. We done over 20000 bookings over 2 and a half years with them and not one mix up. These wholesalers have been around over 50 years. We did use to book direct with many hotels and just found the prices to be uncompetitive. We are cheaper than Asia Rooms for many hotels. Our rates are so good that we are now wholesaling to other agents.

All the big players in the online business use wholesalers as well as direct, Direct rooms use them, Agoda/Precision use them, Asia Rooms use them, HotelTravel use them( sponsor this forum) we use the same ones. These companies are the pioneers of the online portal and I think that if wholesalers were messing things up, all agencies would be going direct.

I think that you will find its a tough business and that hotels will give the wholesalers priority and new agencies will get slow confirmations.

May be send me a message, would be interested to talk shop and compare prices.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ThaiHotels

[onethailand]

OneThailand. Not sure how the wholesaler would mix things up. We done over 20000 bookings over 2 and a half years with them and not one mix up. These wholesalers have been around over 50 years. We did use to book direct with many hotels and just found the prices to be uncompetitive. We are cheaper than Asia Rooms for many hotels. Our rates are so good that we are now wholesaling to other agents.

All the big players in the online business use wholesalers as well as direct, Direct rooms use them, Agoda/Precision use them, Asia Rooms use them, HotelTravel use them( sponsor this forum) we use the same ones. These companies are the pioneers of the online portal and I think that if wholesalers were messing things up, all agencies would be going direct.

I think that you will find its a tough business and that hotels will give the wholesalers priority and new agencies will get slow confirmations.

May be send me a message, would be interested to talk shop and compare prices.

You could be right for the most part. Many of the hoteliers I have talked with, however, indicate that they would rather give the wholesalers lower priority - if they can find a better alternative.

Is it a tough business? Absolutely. But there is huge room for improvement too.

May take you up on a chat sometime - cheers.

[wimster]

Have very good experiences with savehotels.com. No idea why they would be on this list, as they always (local and international) delivered me the hotels for the prices listed. Same for sister site saveflights.com. FYI: I'm not involved in their business.