For Those Raising Children In Thailand

[chanchao]

people who voluntarily raise kids in los is , pardon my engrit, nutts.

Why would that be?

Incidentally my 6 yr old who has been raised over here has a far better comprehension of written English than you have, if your previous posts are anything to go on

Where were you raised?

Wherever that may be I think I am better off over here .

I think if kids are raised in a loving and understanding atmosphere at home and they attend an International school then I do not see the problems that the OP has brought up.

Hint: this topic is NOT about the quality of education. (Though I would personally submit that the bang for your buck in Thailand is pretty bad; most European public schools would be no worse than the best $$$$$$$$$$$$$$-international schools in Thailand)

[GuestHouse]

I agree entirely that education at home and the values of home are critically important.

In respect of developing an enquiring mind and critical thought we might argue that the home environment does indeed act as a counterbalance to the failings in the Thai educational system.

But it also follows that the same child in a western educational system would have support at home AND an educational system that develops critical thought and enquiring minds.

And of course the world over parents who don't give a sh1t about their kids' education are crippling their child's educational prospects before they start.

So home environment is important, but what would be good about home environment in Thailand would also be good elsewhere.

I also think it is a mistake to focus just on schools in Thailand. Or indeed just on the birth family, since Thai families tend to be extended.

A child raised in Thailand to develop what we regard as the norm in the west (critical thought, independent thought and enquiry) would inevitably run up against the wider values of Thai society.

This may be at school, at work or in social situations. It may also be within the child's extended family.

A couple of examples of this that I have come across:

An Anglo-Thai engineer who has been raised in exactly this western manner, his father playing a very active roll in his education, and his family ensuring he has spent considerable amounts of time back in the UK with his aunts/uncles and cousins. I regard him as a very well educated individual, he's worldly, assertive, speaks perfect English and Thai and for his age has a very mature outlook. He seems to me to have had the best of both worlds and I think in many respects he has.

He gets on extremely well with expats and most of our Thai staff, but frequently has problems with some Thais, who find him too assertive, or too sure of himself, too much of an individual.

Another friend tells me that he's doing his best to raise his son with a helping of a western outlook, trying to encourage him to think for himself and to read of his own volition (you don't see many Thais reading now do you?!).

He tells me that his MiL tries at every step to undermine his efforts, taking books off the child, complaining that the child needs to learn to know his place and generally doing her best to spoil every effort of the father.

So it seems to me that we might teach a child to adopt the best of western educational values, but those values will also inevitably cause the child to come up against problems in Thai society.

--

Someone above mentioned a child so raised in Thailand may learn to be a bit more cicumspect in expressing his/herself - Surely a self defeating argument.

A mixed culture family is mixing of all things from both cultures - We all of us hope that our children can absorb the best of both worlds. Western education's emphasis on enquiry and critical thought is real gem of immense value to receive from one's family.

To suggest this should be hidden so as not to upset Thais seems to me to be exactly the problem the OP is alluding to.

[chanchao]

does it bother you that they will not be allowed to freely speak their mind on various subjects in Thailand?

Ehm.. I agree with the angle of your post in spirit, but to this one the answer is 'no'.

In real life, no matter if it's politics or business, NOBODY speaks their minds and everybody just touts the party / company line. So I'd say it prepares them very well for the real world.

Same for religion in education: When I became a dad I vowed to not burden my kids with BS like 'the boogeyman' or 'jesus' and all that. BUT it's been two years and I have to now acknowledge that scaring kids is often the most productive way of getting kids to do something or not do something. (Running across the road, playing with fire, destroying daddies laptop, etc.) So there's one principle out the door.

In school (just like later in the business world) you suck up to the party line. At home (or on *some* online forums) you have your real discussions. (And you wouldn't BELIEVE the discussion I witnessed today on matter relating to December 5th. PM me if interested. So, people do speak their mind, and Thailand is a very free country in many ways, but not in many others.

I agree with the person who said you'd have to be a nutter to want to raise kids here. Guilty as charged. The only reason I'm still here is that I'm selfish and I put my own cheap thrills above the best interests of my children.

but maybe your kids will grow up with a different personality than myself and not being able to speak their mind or question things will not bother them.

Well, she's only 2 and already I wish she'd stop speaking her mind all the $*)*#$*#(* time.

Edited December 5, 2007 by chanchao

[lannarebirth]

Someone above mentioned a child so raised in Thailand may learn to be a bit more cicumspect in expressing his/herself - Surely a self defeating argument.

A mixed culture family is mixing of all things from both cultures - We all of us hope that our children can absorb the best of both worlds. Western education's emphasis on enquiry and critical thought is real gem of immense value to receive from one's family.

To suggest this should be hidden so as not to upset Thais seems to me to be exactly the problem the OP is alluding to.

Perhaps you and I are working with different definitions of what it means to be circumspect. My definition would mean that the child would choose "well considered" arguments, rather than the OP's scattergun and perhaps offensive approach of "questioning everything". Using well considered speech with others does nothing to stifle ones own thought processes. On the contrary it can sharpen those processes when one has to be more skillful in their approach to some subjects. I'm certainly not suggesting that anything should be hidden or ignored, only that approaches might me modified in different settings to achieve good results.

[roamer]

does it bother you that they will not be allowed to freely speak their mind on various subjects in Thailand? When I was in high school, I went through that 'question everything' phase and i can see a lot of young people being frustrated when they are told 'because i said so'.

This doesn't bother me living in Thailand because I am rich now, I understand human nature and government a little better, and its not my country so I really don't care, but I think when I was 16 it would have meant the world to me... but maybe your kids will grow up with a different personality than myself and not being able to speak their mind or question things will not bother them.

What better way to look at this than through the eyes of a kid ? My stepdaughter is now almost 13 and lives with us in the UK, however she lived in Thailand until she was 8. On a trip back to Bangkok this summer she went bowling with her cousin and a friend (both Thai) and afterwards to KFC. While they were eating cousin was spotted by a schoolfriend who came over to the table and while chatting to cousin reached across the table and helped herself to daughters fries ! When it happened a second time daughter muttered in English "How rude" , at that, they all wanted to know what she said so when pressed she told the girl, "look I don't know you, we've never met, you can't simply help yourself to my fries like that" A shocked silence ensued, THEN cousin and friend say to daughter, "No, you can't say that, its very rude!"

An exasperated daughter returned home complaining that she was the one being labeled as rude because she dared to point out someone else's rude behavior. I know she frequently finds it frustrating in LOS the fact the she is not allowed to speak her mind . Her Uncle is a deputy head in a Thai school she has often visited and she knows that she would be unable to deal with the Thai educational system of learning by rote.

Maybe its a case of what you have never had you never miss but for sure if you have been exposed to a western educational system, even with all its flaws, you are going to find it hard to fit back into the much more rigid Thai system. The system is so tightly bound up with Thai cultural values that it creates a rod for its own back. In the west a teacher wouldn't feel in the least bit embarrassed by a pupils question that they were unable to answer so you can allow free discussions and questions, within the Thai system for the most part that simply doesn't happen.

I can see your daughters point, but sharing food is a Thai custom. It's an interesting slice of cross cultural life.

Leave me out please. My daughter IS Thai, family are Thai. She is used to sharing food. She is not used to someone she has never met before, has never even spoken to, leaning across a table to help themselves to her food. And if you think that is a Thai custom then you try it next time your at a foodstall. All of her relations accept the other girls behavior was rude but the "crime" is to embarrass someone by telling them they are rude.

[TonyLeung]

is that really a Thai custom? sounds more like a kid being rude. I have not seen thais take food off someone's plate that is not being shared in the middle.

[digitizerob]

"This doesn't bother me living in Thailand because I am rich now."

Out of curiousity Tony, did you go to a Thai school?

[t.s]

people who voluntarily raise kids in los is , pardon my engrit, nutts.

yes, i wish my daughter would have the benefit of an education like yours.

[Tatler]

I do agree that the Thai educational system is crap (many others Thai will agree too) BUT the main focus of learning and education comes from the home.

If you have good bright parents that spend time with their children then in most cases the children will follow the lead of their parents.

As i have seen with the Thai culture is that they have their children and hand them over to Gran or Granpa to be looked after until they are old enough to start going to kindergarten (3 years old) In the western world that doesn't happen nearly as much as it does here in Thailand.

Why bother having children if you don't have the time to spend with your children!!

[anonymouse]

I agree with the person who said you'd have to be a nutter to want to raise kids here. Guilty as charged. The only reason I'm still here is that I'm selfish and I put my own cheap thrills above the best interests of my children.

Do you really agree with this ! I'm sure your cheap thrills are not the only reason!

Personally if I went back to the UK now my quality of life and my families would fall considerably.

From a 3 bedroom detached house in a secure complex with swimming pool to a crumbling london tower block would be the sad reality of it. working 9-5 and commuting on a stuffy train for nearly 3hrs a day and only seeing my kids for an hour or two a day and weekends. My kids attending a school where the majority of kids would in all likelyhood be non-native speakers, I could go on and on.

[chanchao]

I agree with the person who said you'd have to be a nutter to want to raise kids here. Guilty as charged. The only reason I'm still here is that I'm selfish and I put my own cheap thrills above the best interests of my children.

Do you really agree with this ! I'm sure your cheap thrills are not the only reason!

Well, yes, there's expensive thrills also.

Personally if I went back to the UK now my quality of life and my families would fall considerably.

Right. That's pretty much what I meant. ('Life' qualifies as a cheap thrill. ) My quality of life would indeed also fall considerably, but the kids would be in a safer environment.

From a 3 bedroom detached house in a secure complex with swimming pool to a crumbling london tower block would be the sad reality of it.

Yes.

working 9-5 and commuting on a stuffy train for nearly 3hrs a day and only seeing my kids for an hour or two a day and weekends.

Yes yes.

My kids attending a school where the majority of kids would in all likelyhood be non-native speakers, I could go on and on.

LOL!!!!!!!!! At the moment my kid goes to a pre-school where it seems that no two kids speak exactly the same language natively. Anyway, the teacher back home would be a native speaker. Generally though, I think speaking anything natively is overrated. If anything I value an international environment.

But in summary, you hit my nail on the head. () These are some of the reasons I speak of that make me not want to move away. Also whenever I spend any time outside of Thailand I get severely depressed. (Yes, even more than in present day Thailand thankyouverymuch )

Edited December 6, 2007 by chanchao

[blizzard]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

Edited December 6, 2007 by blizzard

[chanchao]

As i have seen with the Thai culture is that they have their children and hand them over to Gran or Granpa to be looked after until they are old enough to start going to kindergarten (3 years old) In the western world that doesn't happen nearly as much as it does here in Thailand.

Why bother having children if you don't have the time to spend with your children!!

Well, because if they didn't then they wouldn't have kids at all. Having kids, unlike in the West, is not somewhat of an optional excercise in life, it's literally a life or death matter in a country without anything like a pension or welfare for the vast majority. It's really not optional, and with the grandparents having the time and the love available, it's really a very sensible option. And, mum and dad still get a shot at raising kids when THEIR kid has kids.

[chanchao]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 200$ a month and thats if they reel smart.

Framed this one in an extra ribbon of quotes as it's such a classic.

Anyway, raising kids Thai style, they might still be able to find the spell-checker.

Edited December 6, 2007 by chanchao

[blizzard]

do mcdoonalds hire native farng kids here? ive never seen one. mcdoonalds very important in the growth of kids.

[jayjayjayjay]

"does it bother you that they will not be allowed to freely speak their mind"

"but I think when I was 16 it would have meant the world to me"

Tony, sorry, but this is as much a crock-of-sh*t as your other posts. My 2 daughters can speak their minds, they are at ages that it does mean the world to them, so for you in your great wisdom to say they can not is utter utter <deleted>. They may have to be careful in who's company they do comment on certain subjects, but this is all part of society in general no matter where you are. Just because they don't have a constitional right to say anything and do anything as you would have it, does not mean that they will grow up with different personalities as you idoitically suggest......

Tell me how they are going to be different!

Cheers to Lannabirth for a very common sense approach to this discussiom.

Edited December 6, 2007 by jayjayjayjay

[chanchao]

do mcdoonalds hire native farng kids here? ive never seen one. mcdoonalds very important in the growth of kids.

Indeed.. I recall Dr. Thaksin having the very same opinion and had his daughter (I believe) work at Mc Donalds for a while.

Anyway, they wouldn't hire non-Thai kids for the simple reason it would be exceptionally cumbersome to obtain work permits. A more common scenario I guess is half Thai half foreign kids with Thai nationality... Would I let her work at Mc Donalds... I don;t think so. I do believe in having the experience of working for the money as it builds character, but it would NOT be in a pointless menial job like McDonalds.. I'd let her run her own burger cart, sure, but not just be a cog in some multinational's machinery. Thaksin's other kids did likewise, running their own business from an early age.

[nidge]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

My brother in law and sister in law were raised Thai style. They both come from Issan although only one of them is from a farming family. Both have degrees from Thai universities. They earn between $1500 and $2000 per month. For them it is a lot of money and they live quite comfortably. Would i mind if my son ended up in the same position. Of course i would and i would be damn_d proud of him too.

[TonyLeung]

"does it bother you that they will not be allowed to freely speak their mind"

"but I think when I was 16 it would have meant the world to me"

Tony, sorry, but this is as much a crock-of-sh*t as your other posts. My 2 daughters can speak their minds, they are at ages that it does mean the world to them, so for you in your great wisdom to say they can not is utter utter <deleted>. They may have to be careful in who's company they do comment on certain subjects, but this is all part of society in general no matter where you are. Just because they don't have a constitional right to say anything and do anything as you would have it, does not mean that they will grow up with different personalities as you idoitically suggest......

Tell me how they are going to be different!

Cheers to Lannabirth for a very common sense approach to this discussiom.

if what i said was wrong, it seems like you wouldnt have gotten so angry. your anger is a strong clue that i hit a nerve. and its great that your daughters say whatever they want, whenever they want just not at certain times or places.... hmm.... if it is true that the apple doesnt fall far from the tree, i dont think its going to matter where you raise your daughters. btw, can you send me a photo please if they are over the age of consent?

[TonyLeung]

many many many many many married men love thailand because it is easy for them to have "relaxation time" away from home... i wonder how much of a part that plays into their desire to stay in thailand.

oops... about to strike some more nerves.... nothing hurts more than the truth, but who will admit it? no one of course.

[TonyLeung]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

true true

if they go to school in thailand they will only be able to hope for a 3 day vacation overseas and will not be able to get the pick of good jobs overseas when they look and see they went to a university in thailand and the west... but again many farang will have a boat full of excuses... one thing though is that these mixed high school male students are running through brothels like poop through a horse. many are 3 times a day'ers so they will not have any time to study. trust me, im a product of the international school system. we had a motto "coke and hookers 7 days a week"....

Edited December 6, 2007 by TonyLeung

[JacknDanny]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

Is there any chance you could buy a dictionary and at least learn a little bit of English, prior to posting again.

I am sure that I am not alone in saying that your incessant warblings in the style of a drunken wannabe rastafarian are annoying to say the least.

Grow up or post on the jokes section

[TonyLeung]

dont make fun of blizzard he is way smarter than you will ever be in five life times

[nidge]

. trust me, im a product of the international school system.

If there was ever a good advertisement for a Thai education, this is it!

[JacknDanny]

dont make fun of blizzard he is way smarter than you will ever be in five life times

Well then he should grow up and stop acting like a moron

[HS Mauberley]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

Is there any chance you could buy a dictionary and at least learn a little bit of English, prior to posting again.

I am sure that I am not alone in saying that your incessant warblings in the style of a drunken wannabe rastafarian are annoying to say the least.

Grow up or post on the jokes section

Yeah, give the guy a break. A shining example of western education, if ever I've seen one.

Is there any chance of seeing the un-edited versions of his posts? God only knows what they must be like.

[TonyLeung]

says the guy with a robot fuc_king a suit case in his avatar... you are a sick pervert jackanddanny

[HS Mauberley]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

true true

if they go to school in thailand they will only be able to hope for a 3 day vacation overseas and will not be able to get the pick of good jobs overseas when they look and see they went to a university in thailand and the west... but again many farang will have a boat full of excuses... one thing though is that these mixed high school male students are running through brothels like poop through a horse. many are 3 times a day'ers so they will not have any time to study. trust me, im a product of the international school system. we had a motto "coke and hookers 7 days a week"....

'course you did, 'course you did. Good trolling, Tony, but fatally undone by not being true.

[t.s]

just from a fincial viewpoint. so those of you who dnto mind raising yr kids thai style, you dont mind them making 400$ a month and thats if they reel smart. dont thais have hard time getting good jobs in other countries.

of course naysayers will say it aint bout the money, bu to most it is bout the money.

Is there any chance you could buy a dictionary and at least learn a little bit of English, prior to posting again.

I am sure that I am not alone in saying that your incessant warblings in the style of a drunken wannabe rastafarian are annoying to say the least.

Grow up or post on the jokes section

you are alone if you think this makes much more sense than anything he has said.

Edited December 6, 2007 by t.s

[JacknDanny]

says the guy with a robot fuc_king a suit case in his avatar... you are a sick pervert jackanddanny

I'll leave you to find your own way back to your bridge. You are entertaining in a kind of juvenile way