Ise School Fees And International Schools

[tropic]

Hi people.. this is my first post so hello to you all. My husband is considering a job offer in Sriracha. We have a 5 year old daughter and i have been looking up the school fees.

Now maybe i am reading this wrong but on the ISE school website i added up the fees as

registration.. 83,000

capital levy 155,000

tuition 340,000

transport 43,500

total of 621,500 bht

That is just rediculous!!! I have read many mixed views of the schools and am leaning towards BEST

Also their fees were only 46,000. The storys of teachers hitting the children with rulers etc at different schools are worrying me somewhat.

I think if anyone touched my child i would be tempted to "touch" them back.

I would appriciate an honest insight to day to day life of a anglo saxon woman ( we are aussies) in Sriracha.

Are there many english, aussies, americans etc in the area??? I would love freindships with thai, japanese etc woman of course but to have someone on your wavelength for a good chat is always nice.

We have travelled throughout thailand but only as backpackers and that was 12 years ago!

Thanks for any advise. Cheers

[Thaiboxer]

I'm a teacher myself (although not for an international school) and these "entrance fees" are the norm all over the country. It's not just the real international schools, but basically all private schools and here in BKK this extends even to the better known government schools. There are fees for virtually everything, and although annoying, it's something that all of us parents have to fathom when it comes to putting kids in school here.

As far as kids being hit with rulers, this does happen (not at all schools of course) and sometimes may happen at some schools for petty reaons like forgetting a notebook, etc. I do agree that this type of punishment for petty reasons is taking things too far, but if you ever experience having to teach in a typical government school, I think you'll find that the ruler is too mild. Perhaps a cattle prod would be more effective!

Siracha is a nice place and lots of foreigners live in Chonburi Province. Your wife should be able to find friends who are relatively close by. Good luck!

Edited December 6, 2007 by Thaiboxer

[MsFigure]

Not sure if you saw this in the International School Fees thread but here it is again.

My daughter who turns 4 next month (both my husband and I are aussie too) is in Kindergarten and the only things we don't pay for are EAL and transportation (we drive and car pool with one of her friends in her class from Pattaya to Rayong) and while you may think the fees are expensive, the education she has been receiving has been well worth it. The younger the child is, the more important it is for them to get off to the right start with their education. The only option for us is international school for our daughter, and it honestly is worth the expense.

I send photos of my daughter at school and what she is learning regularly to relatives back in Australia, and even they are amazed with what Angel does, learns and has the option of doing (like horse riding on fridays).

I can't emphasise the importantance of getting your child off to the best start possible, even if costs an arm and leg

You also won't have to worry about your child being hit if she goes to St.Andrews - All the teachers there are wonderful people and the education they provide is first class all the way.

Good Luck and hope you find a school that you AND your child is happy with.

Diane

[tropic]

Hi Ms Figure.. thanks for the information. And thanks for the fee structure for st andrews. I will certainly give it a consideration.

One thing.. you said you dont pay for EAL.. what is that??

I definatly agree with you regarding your child having the best future possible. But i must say throwing money at a school is not always the way to go.

My 5 year old daughter is in a public school here in Australia. Her teacher has just won an award for excellence in teaching and we only pay $60 per year. She is the top student in her class.

I do understand what you are saying though. You are happy with the school and so is your child. What price can you put on that.

I am just not willing to pay 621,500 baht per year for school fees.

St andrews fees look more reasonable.. Thanks

[MsFigure]

Hi Ms Figure.. thanks for the information. And thanks for the fee structure for st andrews. I will certainly give it a consideration.

One thing.. you said you dont pay for EAL.. what is that??

I definatly agree with you regarding your child having the best future possible. But i must say throwing money at a school is not always the way to go.

My 5 year old daughter is in a public school here in Australia. Her teacher has just won an award for excellence in teaching and we only pay $60 per year. She is the top student in her class.

I do understand what you are saying though. You are happy with the school and so is your child. What price can you put on that.

I am just not willing to pay 621,500 baht per year for school fees.

St andrews fees look more reasonable.. Thanks

EAL (English as an Additional Language) is something you won't need to worry about. It's for the kids that don't have english as their first/main language.

Considering your daughter is already a top student, it would be in the best interest for your daughter to go to an international school so that she can keep on being a top student.

I totally understand your concerns about the fees, as when we originally started to look for schools for our daughter (Angel was born in Thailand) we also thought the cost of sending a child to international school crazy. We originally thought we could start her in a normal thai school or bilingual school while she was so young but after looking into the schools and their curriculum, extra-curriculum options availble, learning environment, teachers, etc - we found that it would not be the level/quality we would like for our daughter. The fact that we wouldn't be able to help with homework/school projects, etc she would be taught in thai, was also a negative for us...

So really our ONLY option was to send her to a school that taught in english (British curriculum) by fully qualified and experienced teachers that are english (british, australian, american), has a safe, clean and enjoyable learning environment and just somewhere we would feel comfortable with knowing that our daughter was somewhere where she would be safe, looked after teachers that genuinely care for their students and actually enjoy the whole learning thing.

I can't speak for the other international schools but St. Andrews in Rayong IS the best thing we have done for our daughter. Everything she has so far learnt and experienced, her teachers/staff, school facilities and all her friends she has made is priceless, so what we do pay is well worth it (even though my husband does shed a few tears when it's time to pay school fees for the term ).

Have you asked whether or not your husbands employer/company will pay for school fees? I know many people who are lucky enough to have their employers companies pay for the lot.

Considering she wouldnt be starting school(kindy) until next year in Australia if we lived there, she has already received an excellent head start on her "school years"

Here is the link to her school just in case you're interested St. Andrews Rayong

Do you plan on visiting thailand before you decide to move to look at homes, schools, etc? If you do, just let me know and we can give you advice and tell you about our experiences of in Thailand.

Diane

[tropic]

My hubby will be the one visiting thailand if we decide to go ahead with this. I think he can negotiate school fees but i know alot of expats are not getting those paid for these days.

My daughter started kindy when she was 3 1/2 in Perth. They start the year they are turning 4 if their birthday is before june 30. Just 4 half days per week but as you say i am sure your daughter is getting a great education in thailand and i am guessing more than 4 half days per week.

I asked in the other posting but will ask here also... how do you get your daughter to school? Do you drive her yourself? I wouldnt feel good my daughter being on the school bus at just 5.

Roughly what percentage of westerners would you say are at St Andrews?... as they are one of the only school websites that dont publish it.

p.s.. sorry for all the questions

Cheers

[phuketrichard]

wow;

and i thought that BIS here in Phuket ( the international school) was expensive.

My daughter (Angela) is in year 9 British system and I pay 450,000 baht/year, (which includes lunch but not transport)

There was a 90,000 baht refundable and a 125,000 throw away fee for admission ( that's what i called it)

for primary its only like 350,000/year. St Andrews looks a bit cheaper than what I pay here.

If your concerned about the fees look into Bi-lingual schools. There are many around and quite good and about 1/4th the price.

All magor subjects are in English while they also get about 10 hours a week of thai courses ( reading/writing/ speaking and culture). The one here in Phuket all the english teachers are American or Canadian.

its the best of both worlds.

AS far as the education. I for one am thinking of sending my daughter next year Back to america for her High school where she will in my opinion receive a better education for Free ( she is half thai/half american).

Look real hard into if St Andrews is run for profit or not. Also look at the % of thai to half thai and farang. Here BIS is a private school and run for profit so they tend to teach down to the students to assure that the thai students are not overloaded and that they do not pull them out and also that they get a steady influx of new students.

The testing is done a year down from where they should be tested so the results are high. Reason they teach down is 65% of the school is Thai and thai's feel they are paying for the education of their child and if there child is not doing well its the schools fault not the child so they need to assure that the kids pass.

Many times my daughter has told me of thai children in her class that have a hard time understanding the teacher so the teacher needs to spend more time making sure the subject is understood then they would in a western school where all kids speak/read and write english.

Just my $.05 worth (which at the exchange rate is not much :-) )

Edited December 9, 2007 by phuketrichard

[sriracha john]

Does the BIS school in Phuket have an IB program for high school students, Richard.

For your daughter's future, it's critically important.

ISE does so and yes, while it is one of the most expensive international schools in Thailand, their standards are very high, their facilities superb, and their staff is top-notch.

btw, I thought all the international schools in the country were run for profit.

[Oleg_Rus]

Those enrollment fees and others - are pure rip-off. In Bangkok the story is the same, but what is "enrollment" ? what is book deposit ?

And most important is "We use blah blah Montesorri method ". Ok, I did my home work, and went to check is it really Montessori ? No sh*t ! None of the teachers couldn't even explain it to me!

"Multiple Intelegences" ? Same banana

"Dr. <deleted> is his name method" - same somtam

"Sukimoto - Ajimoto- Call-me-Moto method" - muang gun

"Learning by experience" - well, how else ? Do they actually go to power plant ?

I'm sorry for being a but too flamish, have a great respect to one nice english guy, who transfered to sriracha 4 years ago as a teacher., but what I see here - sorry - sux

Another gimmick.

Special breakfast. They showed to me book called "Food for brains" Wow! I thought they are tippy-top. In fact - cheap rice from the market + shreds of chicken from the same market + 1 hard boiled egg for 4 kids.

Well, it is indeed food for my brain, I bought the cheapest trick ever.

Uniform? Cost to make is just about 50-60 baht - charged 350

Special activity - second hand TV with gender challenged Barney + Teletubies freaks

If I will continue, I will get banned. Brrrr.

My advice - get any school. it doesnt' matter, as long you don't pay premium for nothing. The gentleman who works at gov school made a very good point. Respect

[MsFigure]

wow;

and i thought that BIS here in Phuket ( the international school) was expensive.

My daughter (Angela) is in year 9 British system and I pay 450,000 baht/year, (which includes lunch but not transport)

There was a 90,000 baht refundable and a 125,000 throw away fee for admission ( that's what i called it)

for primary its only like 350,000/year. St Andrews looks a bit cheaper than what I pay here.

If your concerned about the fees look into Bi-lingual schools. There are many around and quite good and about 1/4th the price.

All magor subjects are in English while they also get about 10 hours a week of thai courses ( reading/writing/ speaking and culture). The one here in Phuket all the english teachers are American or Canadian.

its the best of both worlds.

AS far as the education. I for one am thinking of sending my daughter next year Back to america for her High school where she will in my opinion receive a better education for Free ( she is half thai/half american).

Look real hard into if St Andrews is run for profit or not. Also look at the % of thai to half thai and farang. Here BIS is a private school and run for profit so they tend to teach down to the students to assure that the thai students are not overloaded and that they do not pull them out and also that they get a steady influx of new students.

The testing is done a year down from where they should be tested so the results are high. Reason they teach down is 65% of the school is Thai and thai's feel they are paying for the education of their child and if there child is not doing well its the schools fault not the child so they need to assure that the kids pass.

Many times my daughter has told me of thai children in her class that have a hard time understanding the teacher so the teacher needs to spend more time making sure the subject is understood then they would in a western school where all kids speak/read and write english.

Just my $.05 worth (which at the exchange rate is not much :-) )

Some how I don't think St.Andrews (in Rayong at least) is run for profit. We personally witnessed 4 potential students denied admission during one afternoon there because they had very limited english. Students (excepting nursery/kg) have to sit an entrance exam to test their comprehension/understanding of english. Unless they meet certain requirements, they won't be accepted by the school. Those that fall just under the cut off point are admitted but must do EAL, to bring them up to where they should be (british curriculum), so that they can keep up with their rest of their class.

[MsFigure]

My hubby will be the one visiting thailand if we decide to go ahead with this. I think he can negotiate school fees but i know alot of expats are not getting those paid for these days.

My daughter started kindy when she was 3 1/2 in Perth. They start the year they are turning 4 if their birthday is before june 30. Just 4 half days per week but as you say i am sure your daughter is getting a great education in thailand and i am guessing more than 4 half days per week.

I asked in the other posting but will ask here also... how do you get your daughter to school? Do you drive her yourself? I wouldnt feel good my daughter being on the school bus at just 5.

Roughly what percentage of westerners would you say are at St Andrews?... as they are one of the only school websites that dont publish it.

p.s.. sorry for all the questions

Cheers

There are 3 of Angels friends (australian, dutch and english) who have employers paying school fees, and I know of many many more who are just as fortunate. Definitely get your husband to push for it.

Angel started nursery 3 half days a week (this april which was also term 3), now in kindergarten (start of school year end of Aug) 5 half days a week. I think next term we'll keep her on 5 half days but term 3 she will start 5 full days to prepare her for Reception grade (Grade 1). Angel could easily handle full days now, but we enjoy the time spent doing things with her in the afternoons (like playing cricket, soccer, swimming, etc) before she crashes at 5.30/6pm for the night.

Yes I drive, and it's actually not too bad down this way (Pattaya/Rayong) but I would never dare drive in Bangkok.

Actually I find driving here MUCH easier than driving in Perth on my visits back. I've been here long enough and understand "the rules" of driving on thai roads, and knowing exactly how and what to watch out for.

The drive from home to Rayong is quite a pleasant straight drive with only one set of lights on the way. Although the school bus is quite safe (they go nice and slow with flashing lights) I would never feel comfortable putting her any bus (Thailand OR Australia) to go to school.

Percentage of westerners/non thais? I'd say about 40%. The rest would be 55% half thai, and the rest full thai. Thing is, unless a student has total understanding of the english language - they won't be admitted there as they have to sit an admissions test to test their level of english comprehension comprehension/understanding of english.

PS. I'll get reply to your other post in the morning - the other child in the family (husband) is demanding some of my time

[phuketrichard]

Just curious how u witnessed 4 potential students being refused admitance? If one of those students was my daughter or son I would be very upset that they informed me that they couldn't attend their school in a public setting.

MSfigure; 40% farang is very high and what with another 55% of half farang then your really lucky with the school. Have you set in any classes? I doubt it would be that big a diference until they get to year 4 or so, Up until then its mostly teaching the kids abc and 123 and how to socolize. For the upper years it is amazing as I did and was shocked at the teaching methods used and how the teachers spent to much time with the students whose english was not up to par. I was friends with a few teachers in the primary school and they all admitted it was a problem having to teach down\ BUT

All schools have an entrance exam, no big deal as then if your child does not meet the english profeciency they place them in ESL classes and they are required to take the first 6 months of extra english classes befroe they are intergrated into the regular school classes. They tried to get my daughter to take the ESL classes when she first started in year 4 ( cuase i had her at the Montesorri school before) ( as its extra $$) but i pushed and 95% of the teachers agreed that her english was better than most of the other students in her class

YES BIS runs the IB program. WE just had a meeting last week and although i like the outline, i find it very hard to see why they push year 9 students (who would start in the IGCSE in year 10) to start choosing what they wish to study for the next 4 years and then they would be locked into their choices, ( IB runs year 12 and 13) How many of us at 14 knew what we wanted to study in college? I think the IB is for the exceptional students not for the norm and to run a whole scholl based on this program is a mistake.

Sirracha John:

"For your daughter's future, it's critically important."

Why do u find this criticaly important? Although the ib prgram is growing world wide there are still less than 75,000 students (according to their numbers) that do take it. I dont think it is that important.

I much prefer the american system than British anyway but here in Thailand the thai's are more familar and regard the british system as superior.

PLUS even if i did think it was a good system they offer, within 30 miles of my sisters home in Md, 3 high schools that also offer the IB program for FREE in the Md public school system so she would have no troube transfering (although the IP program in america does not offer Chinese)

All in all I have not been happy with what is offered as BIS (formally Dulwich). although they do have great sports facilities!!

If i had it to do over i would place my daughter in a good Bi-lingual school rather than believe the hipe. IN any schools its the teachers commitment that counts not how much the school costs.

Edited December 9, 2007 by phuketrichard

[Martin]

My last job in my 20 years of semi-retirement (after getting a little early-retirement package at 50) was part-time in a 'prestigious' International school, and doing Supply (Substitute) in others in Bangkok.

Seeing it from the inside is an eye-opener. Those fees are not a rip-off. Unless they charge that sort of money, they can't possibly give what you expect that your kids ought to get.

IMO, unless the employer pays the school fees, and the job/lifestyle allows the parents to put in a lot of effort helping the kids cope with double-culture, parents with school age kids shouldn't expat. Leave it till the kids have grown up.

If the employer pays the fees, that is only half the battle.

You yourselves will have to make up for the inherent weaknesses of all International Schools.

They are schools with a high turnover of staff, and with a percentage of their staff, however well-meaning, who are not 'at ease' with their circumstances (culture shock, and so forth).

Also, in order not to have to charge even higher fees than the market will bear, they have to work their staff members very hard. And over-worked teachers don't perform at their best.

Early in my time in Bangkok, I was shocked to hear a top Head in a top School volunteer, at a staff meeting in December, the observation: "I know that we are all 'running on Empty' , but ...." to his staff.

However, observing closely in the next two weeks, he was right. All those little means that teachers have of 'just getting through, though it means Quality has gone for a Burton' were having to be deployed.

Caveat emptor, when you buy into expatting.

[sriracha john]

Just curious how u witnessed 4 potential students being refused admitance? If one of those students was my daughter or son I would be very upset that they informed me that they couldn't attend their school in a public setting.

MSfigure; 40% farang is very high and what with another 55% of half farang then your really lucky with the school. Have you set in any classes? I doubt it would be that big a diference until they get to year 4 or so, Up until then its mostly teaching the kids abc and 123 and how to socolize. For the upper years it is amazing as I did and was shocked at the teaching methods used and how the teachers spent to much time with the students whose english was not up to par. I was friends with a few teachers in the primary school and they all admitted it was a problem having to teach down\ BUT

All schools have an entrance exam, no big deal as then if your child does not meet the english profeciency they place them in ESL classes and they are required to take the first 6 months of extra english classes befroe they are intergrated into the regular school classes. They tried to get my daughter to take the ESL classes when she first started in year 4 ( cuase i had her at the Montesorri school before) ( as its extra $$) but i pushed and 95% of the teachers agreed that her english was better than most of the other students in her class

YES BIS runs the IB program. WE just had a meeting last week and although i like the outline, i find it very hard to see why they push year 9 students (who would start in the IGCSE in year 10) to start choosing what they wish to study for the next 4 years and then they would be locked into their choices, ( IB runs year 12 and 13) How many of us at 14 knew what we wanted to study in college? I think the IB is for the exceptional students not for the norm and to run a whole scholl based on this program is a mistake.

Sirracha John:

"For your daughter's future, it's critically important."

Why do u find this criticaly important? Although the ib prgram is growing world wide there are still less than 75,000 students (according to their numbers) that do take it. I dont think it is that important.

I much prefer the american system than British anyway but here in Thailand the thai's are more familar and regard the british system as superior.

PLUS even if i did think it was a good system they offer, within 30 miles of my sisters home in Md, 3 high schools that also offer the IB program for FREE in the Md public school system so she would have no troube transfering (although the IP program in america does not offer Chinese)

All in all I have not been happy with what is offered as BIS (formally Dulwich). although they do have great sports facilities!!

If i had it to do over i would place my daughter in a good Bi-lingual school rather than believe the hipe. IN any schools its the teachers commitment that counts not how much the school costs.

Thank you for your response. I was only making the IB point if your daughter was staying in Thailand. If she can go state-side, then I can fully appreciate the better side of doing things that way. btw, IB is also recognized by American universities and in fact, ISE is run on an American curriculum and not British.

For MsFigure:

All international schools of quality will reject students on the basis of unsuitability due to language deficiencies. Just because they are run for profit doesn't mean they accept any and all applicants that fail to meet minimum standards. I would be very surprised to learn of an international school that isn't run for profit.

To the OP:

I would say quite a bit over half of ISE students have their fees paid for by the companies their parents work for. I would urge your husband to pursue this during contract talks.

[MsFigure]

Just curious how u witnessed 4 potential students being refused admitance? If one of those students was my daughter or son I would be very upset that they informed me that they couldn't attend their school in a public setting.

MSfigure; 40% farang is very high and what with another 55% of half farang then your really lucky with the school. Have you set in any classes? I doubt it would be that big a diference until they get to year 4 or so, Up until then its mostly teaching the kids abc and 123 and how to socolize. For the upper years it is amazing as I did and was shocked at the teaching methods used and how the teachers spent to much time with the students whose english was not up to par. I was friends with a few teachers in the primary school and they all admitted it was a problem having to teach down\ BUT

All schools have an entrance exam, no big deal as then if your child does not meet the english profeciency they place them in ESL classes and they are required to take the first 6 months of extra english classes befroe they are intergrated into the regular school classes. They tried to get my daughter to take the ESL classes when she first started in year 4 ( cuase i had her at the Montesorri school before) ( as its extra $) but i pushed and 95% of the teachers agreed that her english was better than most of the other students in her class

YES BIS runs the IB program. WE just had a meeting last week and although i like the outline, i find it very hard to see why they push year 9 students (who would start in the IGCSE in year 10) to start choosing what they wish to study for the next 4 years and then they would be locked into their choices, ( IB runs year 12 and 13) How many of us at 14 knew what we wanted to study in college? I think the IB is for the exceptional students not for the norm and to run a whole scholl based on this program is a mistake.

Sirracha John:

"For your daughter's future, it's critically important."

Why do u find this criticaly important? Although the ib prgram is growing world wide there are still less than 75,000 students (according to their numbers) that do take it. I dont think it is that important.

I much prefer the american system than British anyway but here in Thailand the thai's are more familar and regard the british system as superior.

PLUS even if i did think it was a good system they offer, within 30 miles of my sisters home in Md, 3 high schools that also offer the IB program for FREE in the Md public school system so she would have no troube transfering (although the IP program in america does not offer Chinese)

All in all I have not been happy with what is offered as BIS (formally Dulwich). although they do have great sports facilities!!

If i had it to do over i would place my daughter in a good Bi-lingual school rather than believe the hipe. IN any schools its the teachers commitment that counts not how much the school costs.

It's not like they told the family of the students that they wouldn't be accepted for everyone to hear - What happened was we were in there paying for first term fees, and we noticed the of the family speaking to the admin staff that was dealing with them and after they left my husband asked )admin staff that was handling them) if they were new students, and the admin replied that because the children had very very limited english knowledge, they couldn't be accepted into the school.

My husband was actually impressed as he had never thought he would see a school knock back students (fees=$$$) and thought the reason behind them not being accepted was a good thing. One might say that they should've been admitted and they could learn english at school, but the fact is that they are taught everything in English and EAL is only additional class for those students who already know english, but need the extra tuition to fully understand and comprehend the language. By admitting them to school, they still would've really struggled as they would've struggled and not understood their teachers (all from english speaking countries so english is their main langauge.

Our friends daughter (half brit/half phillipino) had been attending Montessori (Pattaya) and she was admitted but has to do EAL because her level on english was not as it should be for her age/class. Obviously Montessori didn't teach it's young students enough of or proper use of the english language, considering it being a "bilingual school"

As for teachers teaching down, I've never heard anyone say that about St.Andrews or its teachers. All I know is that they've down an excellent job with our daughter, and her command of the english language is much higher already than some of her cousins back in Aus. From what I've witness, the teachers have a genuine care for each of their students and enjoying their teaching - and don't see it as just a job.