The Hassles Of Obtaining An O Visa For Marriage

[tangcoral]

The past 3 days has been an ardous task, running from one agency to another.

A little background on me..I got married earlier this year in thailand but never registered for the thai marriage certificate. Few months later, went back to USA to showoff my new wife to friends and families, not to mention we made a quick stop at the Local county clerks office in Los Angeles for a marriage certificate, which we recieved 3 weeks later in the mail.

8 months later, (present time)...

I am now trying to obtain an O visa by marriage to end the endless cycle of monthly visa runs to cambodia.

Some of the stuff that I learned while gathering my paperwork...

After visiting the bangkok immigration office at suan plu on the 2nd floor, we received a check list of things that must be done.

The check list ask for us to obtain a certified copy of the marriage certificate by means of having the marriage certificate stamped with a seal of guarantee from the US embassy. ONLY problem is the US embassy does not issue a stamp of guarantee to any marriage certificate.

We stopped by Laksi office of Foriegn Ministry and spoke with the supervisor in regards to our dilemma, which they said in order to accept your certified marriage certificate.It needs to be certified by the state (california) because it the original marriage certificate was issued at the local county office. Than after thats done, you must have it certified at the federal or national level by department of state in washington D.C. by Condoleezza Rice!Your joking right?, they said "well at least someone in her office". I am sure there were some lost in translation going on here but I figured Dept. of state would suffice. Anyhow I was thinking to myself what kind of Bureaucratic policy is this? Anyhow the conversation ended by me saying.."I rather forget the whole US marriage certificate route and just get a Thai Marriage Certificate. They then said, you have to go back to the US embassy and get a certified document proving that you are "single". Okay sounds easy if I didnt get the marriage certificate in LA 8 months ago in the first place. So having no choice, I have to make a trip out to schedule an appointment with the Condoleezza Rice and while I'm at it, get and autographed picture as a souvenier ?!

Everyone I talked to said the US makes things alot more difficult than other coutnries...no kidding

What am I not knowing here? please help..

[andyc2006]

Why not avoid all those hassles and just get married a 2nd time in Thailand. It's easy:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/marriage.html

It'll probably take you 1-5 hours...

[Jayman]

Why not avoid all those hassles and just get married a 2nd time in Thailand. It's easy:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/marriage.html

It'll probably take you 1-5 hours...

In order to get married in Thailand you must go get a certified affidavit from the US Embassy that you are SINGLE. Now, I guess you could lie but I'm not the one going to recomend that. You have to sign a form at the Embassy to certify you are singla and able to get married. Your wife will also have to come up clean in the thai system as never having a husband. Not sure how you got your wife back to the US without having the marriage registered in both Thailand and US.

Good luck...this is a difficult situation.

Here is the affidavot you have to sign and get signed at the Embassy..... I wouldn;t want to lie on it and then sign it under the penalties of law.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Jayman

[salween]

Wow, you've done a lot more work than I did two years ago. Unless things have changed significantly??, here's what you do.

Take your marriage certificate to the US Embassy. They will give you a simple form to fill out and will certify the marriage certificate for you.

Go outside the Embassy, turn right, and use any one of a number of translation services that will both translate your documents (marriage certificate and Embassy certification) and get it registered for you by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I think it took two days and cost about 1500 baht for everything.

Of course, that may be the easy part depending on what the various Embassies/Consulates in the region may be requiring to obtain non-immigrant 0 visas of late.

Now if you were still in the US, you could have just mailed your passport, visa application and $150 certified check/money order along with copies of: your US marriage certificate, your return air ticket, wife's ID/passport and a recent bank statement showing a $1,000 balance to the Portland Consulate and gotten your multi-entry 0 back in the mail in under a week.

[andyc2006]

In order to get married in Thailand you must go get a certified affidavit from the US Embassy that you are SINGLE. Now, I guess you could lie but I'm not the one going to recomend that. You have to sign a form at the Embassy to certify you are singla and able to get married. Your wife will also have to come up clean in the thai system as never having a husband. Not sure how you got your wife back to the US without having the marriage registered in both Thailand and US.

Good luck...this is a difficult situation.

Here is the affidavot you have to sign and get signed at the Embassy..... I wouldn;t want to lie on it and then sign it under the penalties of law.

Are you saying there's no exception for marrying the same person that you're already married to, given that the primary reason for the affidavit is to prevent bigamy/polygamy?

People have 2nd marriages (aka vow renewals) all the time...

[lopburi3]

You get married one time only - unless you have a divorce in between. If Embassy says the legalization is required you do as below:

Legalization procedure:

"State and Local Documents and Court Records

Note: Certified originals: Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates and Court Files (Divorce Decrees, Probate Will, Judgments etc.)

1. Certified by the custodial of those records;

http://www.lavote.net/RECORDER/BDM_Records.cfm

2. Certified by the Secretary of State of the State in which the documents are recorded. The Secretary of State should be requested to certify to the officials signing the document under the impressed Seal of the State."

California

Office of the Secretary of State

Business Programs Division

Notary Public Section

P.O. Box 942877

Sacramento, CA 94277-0001

916-653-3595

http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/notary/notary.htm

Fee: $20.00

Designated Authority: Secretary of State; any Assistant Secretary of State; any Deputy Secretary of State

It can then be legalized by the Department of State in Washington per procedure here:

http://www.state.gov/m/a/auth/

[tangcoral]

I will try today to see if they will certify my marriage certificate at the US embassy.

If this doesnt work than I need to rethink if signing the sworn affidavit you guys have been giving me, its section #4 which said to state my status. Single, divorced or widow that I am worried about since I am already married now.

I'll let you know how it goes...

thank you!

[lopburi3]

Any signing of false documents is a serious legal matter under US and Thai laws. You are legally married from what you have said here.

[autonomous_unit]

Four years ago, we took our LA county marriage certificate and wrote our own Thai translation of it (copying the exact layout with boxes containing Thai translations of the labels and the English spelling of names as on the original). Then my wife took it to the MFA and got it certified as a translation. Note, MFA is certifying the translation and not the authenticity, so no crazy stack of US government signatures is required.

This was sufficient for us to then go to the local Amphur office and re-register our marriage in Thailand, which got recorded with the date of marriage in California and we signed it again. This way, you're not attesting to anything false and being re-married, but just registering the fact that you are married. Because we're there attesting to our marriage, there is never a question of getting a the original certificate authenticated. The translation stamp from MFA is sufficient to make the officials trust the translation, and our signatures are sufficient to register the marriage locally.

Then, we paid the small fee and got a copy of the Amphur office record, which we use instead of trying to present any US documents to prove marriage when needed for various government or private paper chases.

I guess anything is possible, but I don't see why this process would no longer be valid today.

[menorah]

I rather forget the whole US marriage certificate route and just get a Thai Marriage Certificate. They then said, you have to go back to the US embassy and get a certified document proving that you are "single". Okay sounds easy if I didnt get the marriage certificate in LA 8 months ago in the first place. So having no choice, I have to make a trip out to schedule an appointment with the Condoleezza Rice and while I'm at it, get and autographed picture as a souvenier ?!

Everyone I talked to said the US makes things alot more difficult than other coutnries...no kidding

What am I not knowing here? please help..

I'm UK citizen. The paperwork you're after is called an affirmation of freedom to marry. UK guys can download this from the embassy website, have you tried looking for same thing on US website?

I downloaded and completed the form. Went to British Embassy BKK to get it officially verified, took the relevant documentation to Laksi, like you, and 30 minutes and 600baht later was officially married. That was 6 years ago. been back and forth ever since. Have step daughter and year old son!

Moving permanently to Thailand in february, but using a 12 month multi non-o visa. Will consider the marriage visa after assessing things first!

Good luck.

[lopburi3]

Please do not advise people to do things illegal - the poster is married - he can not put "single" on such a paper and he can not get married again without getting a divorce.

[bernie66]

i am amazed you got her in the states at all! To me it sounds like you entered the states without reviealing intent to marry. VIA> fieance visa...... Thats illegal. Plus you have made back to back tourist visas. Thats about to get you burned. And the requirements for an "O" visa change by interpretation of the issuing point. i would go to hong kong or bali with your original american mairrage certificate, a translated copy, proof of income ,and bank account info and hope they slip you into the system without too many questions. And pay a thai lawyer to start the rest of your paperwork so when the laws change again next year you are covered. Its like this brother. Unless your a rich old man with a hel_l of a documented pension. It is only going to get harder in the years to come. Edited December 7, 2007 by bernie66

[autonomous_unit]

Yes, I missed the part where the OP didn't already have the O visa... I just assumed he was looking for an extension of stay, having already entered on an O visa.

What does work for sure, in case you have to leave the country to set things right, is to get an O visa from the LA consulate by presenting your LA county marriage certificate and wife's passport/ID info. They know what an CA marriage certificate looks like, and do not need translations or other special handling. It's too bad you didn't just apply for an O visa while you were there the first time!

What I posted previously about re-registering a marriage is sufficient to apply for extension of stay based on marriage, in case you prefer that to the other authentication process you spoke of. Either way should work; re-register and present the Amphur doc at Suan Phlu, or get the LA county certificate authenticated and present that at SUan Phlu...

I think you're putting yourself into an awkward category, and pleading for extra attention and potential problems, by trying to somehow convert from tourist visas to an O visa in Thailand!

[tangcoral]

Update...

I went to the US Embassy tried to get my US marriage certificate certified. They said they do not certify any marriage certificates. They said we used to provide this service but it has now been 2 years since we last did. Instead they did give me an option to have a sworn affidavit written by me stating that I somnely swear to have married so and so, on so and so in the USA along with a $30 service fee, in return I get the handwritten letter by me stamped with the US embassy seal. They didn't even bother to ask to see my marriage certificate...

I took this written affidavit and had it translated to Laksi MFA to have it legalized as a usable thai document located on the third floor (took 2 hours and 800 baht). They than told me to take this to your local district office (amphur) to have your marriage registered in Thailand. This is were it got a bit complicated. My local district marriage office would not accept the sworn affidavit of marriage. They said they need the copy of the marriage certificate translated with a stamped seal from the US Embassy. I tried to explain that the US embassy does not do that anymore. She than proceeded to show me past files of registered marriages to foreigners all with the copy of marriage certificates stamped by their countries embassy. I said yes it is possible with other countries but the US embassy doesn't do that anymore? She said the rule never changed so go back and have it done like everyone else. So I left bitterly frustrated...

I spoke with the shop that translated my sworn affidavit and she said why don't you go over to the different district office. So I did and within less than an hour and 30 baht later I was registered in the thai books and received the marriage certificate.

Apparently...not all amphur are the same. I think my local amphur didnt receive the updated memo that US embassy do not certify marriage certificates anymore or they are stuck in the dinosaur ages. The amphur where I did receive the marriage certificate (young and beautiful staffs) said I should report what my local amphur to the courts and have them reprimanded for not following the rules.

Hope my ordeal helps other potential US citizens in getting the thai marriage certificate

So far I am half way there to receiving my O visa....I will let you know how the rest goes.

Edited December 9, 2007 by tangcoral

[vahack]

yea this is right. foreign marriage certificates are useless in Thailand.

i've written a detailed process of what i went thru in January to March 2008 to get a non-o visa extension.

read here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=177541

Edited March 30, 2008 by vahack

[samran]

just understand though that you haven't gotten 're-married in Thailand'. All that has happened is that the ampur has issued you a certificate stating you are married.

I have to do the same thing for my wife shortly, as we were married overseas, and we need it for her citizenship application.

Good luck with the visa application......

[tutsiwarrior]

I've got a 'Certificate of the Registration of Marriage' in Thai and in English issued by the Thai Embassy (the venue of my marriage) in Abu Dhabi, UAE. Would I need any further registration of marriage locally in Thailand for any of the purposes mentioned in this thread?

Thanx...

Edited March 31, 2008 by tutsiwarrior

[lopburi3]

Not likely.