Thais Not Having It Easy In The Uk

[mikethevigoman]

JUST SAW THIS IN MY LOCAL PAER FROM TORQUAY IN ENGLAND, READ THE COMMENTS ON THE BOTTOM,. A torquay family will spend their last Christmas together in this country because their son cannot get a visa to stay in the UK.Immigration officers and police knocked on the Mudge family's door yesterday and said they had come to remove their 19-year-old son.

The family were 'scared to death' as they answered the door and their teenage son, Thai-born Chakkraphong, 19, known as 'Ging' to his friends, was not even at their home because he had finished work late and slept at the Thai Garden Restaurant in Palace Avenue, Paignton, where he is training to be a chef.

But Ging was so scared when his mum Sakhon rang him to tell him that he got up, got dressed and ran out of the restaurant.

His family had to talk him into coming back. John Mudge, 47, of Main Avenue married his wife Sakhon, 37, three years ago after meeting her in Changmai, Thailand, in 2003.

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

But John never expected to have the trouble he has had trying to keep is family together. His family have been to the immigration appeal court in Newport, South Wales twice and lost both times. Now their only option is to take the fight to High Court.

John says he feels 'powerless' to keep his stepson in the country, saying after the first hearing the whole family conditioned themselves to the possibility Ging would have to return to Thailand.

He said: "We want to keep him here and he needs to be with his mother. She looks after him and he is only a boy.

"He needs help with his medication and his illness and his mum looks after him.

"If he went back it would be very difficult."

Ging suffers from thalassemia, an illness which affects his blood and means he needs monthly trips to hospital in Bristol to receive special care.

But John says the Immigration and Border Agency have 'no compassion'.

He adds: "He is just another number in the system to them."

Mum Sakhon described the moments when the immigration officials knocked on the door at 7.30am. She said: "When I answered, it was the police and they said they had come for my son.

"I told them he was at work and I got John."

John said that his 15-year-old daughter had to come home from school because she was 'sick with worry'.

And Ging said: "I was very, very scared by the whole thing." Ging will have to return to Thailand on January 7, and his family have already bought his return ticket.

Torbay Lib Dem MP Adrian Sanders (pictured above) explained Ging should have returned to Thailand immediately after his last hearing and his best option was to return and try to apply for a visa from Thailand.

He said: "I am sorry it is harsh, and there are hundreds of immigration stories and they are all heartbreaking.

"Our immigration rules aren't there to keep families together and they aren't there to break them apart. They are designed to be as fair as possible."

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "He has exhausted the appeals process and the government has made it clear they will take a robust approach to remove people from the country when they have no legal right to be here.

"People can leave voluntarily at any point and we only remove people once they have no right to be in the UK."

But John said he felt 'angry' about the whole thing and said: "We are a law-abiding family and if they say he has to go back, he has to go back.

"But their approach has made me so angry because they have turned up and frightened my family to death. It is as if they are trying to make us out to be criminals, when are just a family trying to live a normal life."

Immigration officers took Ging's passport and a copy of his flight details and John said he understood they would take a 'softly, softly' approach to his removal from his family home.

<h3 class="freeLeft">Reader comments</h3> <a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>

Have just read the remarks from the usual band of Torquay rascists, this town would be in a lot of trouble if it was not for foreign labour, a lot of local business have to employ them as they are sick and tired of hiring lazy and unreliable British workers. Ging is working in a Thai restaurant, cooking Thai food!!!! not a branch of tesco's a british chef could not cook authentic Thai cuisine!! ONLY thai people would and could be employed. Britain is a multi-cultural society and we should be proud of it. We used to be a society that caredSteve , Torquay

I agree with Kim. If it is so important to be together then they can all go. Problem solved.ali, paignton

I dont mean that as harsh as it reads by the way. as somebody else has said there are far toomany immigrants over here. Sarah, newton abbot

good, send them all back i say!Sarah, Newton abbot

Its unfair on Ging, why does he have to go, if he has to go then his whole family should have to go too. Atleast they will be together either way.Kim, Newton Abbot

Nothing against foreign people. But i do feel that alot of the local unskilled jobs are being taken by immigrants. The local british born people should have first say on these jobs that are needed for people who were born and raised here just to survive and pay their bills. We were in this country long before them. Who's idea was it to make england part of the eu. It was a stupid idea considering the size of it. Now there is gonna be many unemployed people in england for ever. mike, paignton

watched a programme on hoodies the other night concerning gangs and street violence and most said they do it because they are bored and jobless. get out the unemployed and illegal immigrant workers and start giving our youth a chancephil, tqy

Ahhhh... poor old Ging !!! Sanders is right for once, he is working ove here illegally (and there are lots of them working illegally over here) and he should be sent back. My own opinion is that there are far too many foreigners working in this country that are doing jobs that could be done by local people who are at this moment out of work. In fact there are too many foreigners in this country full stop (but i will not go into that). Trev

Edited December 7, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[sbk]

moved out of the diving forum and to the general forum

//MOVED//

[GuestHouse]

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

I suspect the roots of their problems would be found in a full explanation of how they brought their children to the UK and on what Visa.

[ade100]

My sympathies are with the family. It must be a very traumatic experience.

Just a few point though to consider:

A good friend of mine is an immigration officer in the UK and I was asking him recently about how easy it would be to bring my Thai gf to the country. To summarise, his reply was: No problem, if you have a legitimate reason to be in the UK such as a family member being there, it is easy to get a visa and ultimately a UK passport. But he did point out that if you break the rules (present false documents, enter the country illegally, work illegally, etc) immigration will jump on you. So its just possible there is another side to this story.

[lazeeboy]

My sympathies are with the family. It must be a very traumatic experience.

Just a few point though to consider:

A good friend of mine is an immigration officer in the UK and I was asking him recently about how easy it would be to bring my Thai gf to the country. To summarise, his reply was: No problem, if you have a legitimate reason to be in the UK such as a family member being there, it is easy to get a visa and ultimately a UK passport. But he did point out that if you break the rules (present false documents, enter the country illegally, work illegally, etc) immigration will jump on you. So its just possible there is another side to this story.

if a westerner works with no work permit in thailand he's thrown in jail fined and deported ,why should england be any different

[londonthai]

maybe he should leave and apply for a work permit in the restaurant he is training as a chef now?

[asiaworld]

if a westerner works with no work permit in thailand he's thrown in jail fined and deported ,why should england be any different

PRECICELY .. Long live the reciprocity .. Npw if it can be twisted, in proper way to let thais know ..

Anyway wonder what would've happen to me , if i'd come here on a tourist visa & start working in the restaurant, & moreover using local thai medicare ... Don't think they pay 800 baht to speak to doc for 5 minutes in Bristol

[mrbojangles]

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

I suspect the roots of their problems would be found in a full explanation of how they brought their children to the UK and on what Visa.

Yep, that would be my take on it.

[WaiWai]

He said: "I am sorry it is harsh, and there are hundreds of immigration stories and they are all heartbreaking.

I am afraid that is the truth.

All the so-called developed countries have queues and quotas and selection criteria. There are thousands of far, far sadder stories than this one.

He's 19 and needs to learn how to look after his medical condition himself .

If he's truly irreplaceable I am sure he'll be able to get a visa on his own merits.

[Gravelrash]

When I organised my ex-wifes kids to go to Australia they applied at the same time as her, it was a six months wait, but they then had the proper visa.

Not sure about Pommie Immigration, but sounds like they never organised a proper visa for the kids and now it is coming back to bite them.

[Spee]

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

I suspect the roots of their problems would be found in a full explanation of how they brought their children to the UK and on what Visa.

Yep, that would be my take on it.

Although not having the full story, I'm inclined to agree. The question in my mind was did this gent initiate steps to legally adopt his wife's children? If he had legally adopted the children (or at least started the process), and then brought them into the country on that basis, then I can't see where there would be an issue.

I do believe that if immigrants go to work without a work permit and it gets discovered, it raises a big red flag with the Home Office and HM Revenue & Customs. Possibly he was in the country legally to live but without the permission to work. It's hard to say without the rest of the story.

The comments from some of the local yocals make my skin crawl. While I've met a lot of really fantastic, qualified hard workers in my time here, I've also observed that for a sizeable chunk of the UK labor force, the work ethic is &lt;deleted&gt; or non-existent altogether. It's no different in the US. Most people that aren't working are either physically unable to work or they simply are too lazy and unmotivated to work. To add the anti-immigrant bias on top of that is just irrational. Why shouldn't an immigrant take a job that someone else doesn't want (legally of course)?

Hopefully if the "stepson" is being deported, then it will not happen with "personna non grata" status so that there may be an opportunity for him to return at some point in the future.

[lukey1979]

I bet that chopper Thaksin is'nt having any dramas with his families visas! it makes me sick.

[mikethevigoman]

moved out of the diving forum and to the general forum

//MOVED//

Thanks, i didnt realise i had put it there til it was too late ,. seems ive heard that line before !

[madjbs]

Although we don’t know the full story, if the situation is as the article states then it’s disgusting. Yet another example of the government being too useless, lazy etc... to find the real problem people or implement methods to deter them. They are just picking on easy victims to make it look like they are doing something and splitting up families who are just trying to have a normal life in the process. The fact that they are the family of a British citizen makes it even worse.

[mikethevigoman]

I bet that chopper Thaksin is'nt having any dramas with his families visas! it makes me sick.

A bit like pop stars with criminal records getting in to the a USA , drug offenses, firearms, no problem, i went in in 92, failed to disclose i had been banned from driving in 1971 and was refused entry,. Money no 1 ! oh, deja vu

[mikethevigoman]

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

I suspect the roots of their problems would be found in a full explanation of how they brought their children to the UK and on what Visa.

It will be wont it, more than likely came in a tourist and stayed,.it all sounds like doom and gloom when in fact i suspect once back in thailand and the proper visa is obtained it will be happy families once again, main problem here has been trying to avoid the airfare back to obtain the visa ,.

[kat]

I bet that chopper Thaksin is'nt having any dramas with his families visas! it makes me sick.

A bit like pop stars with criminal records getting in to the a USA , drug offenses, firearms, no problem, i went in in 92, failed to disclose i had been banned from driving in 1971 and was refused entry,. Money no 1 ! oh, deja vu

No, in this case it sounds like "safety #1" if you had a driving ban. There are also top celebrities that have been banned, such as Roman Polanski.

[bangsue]

Anyway, according to many posters on this forum, Thailand is the bee's knees and the UK is a H_llhole, so it's a blessing in disguise, surely?

also, surely he has been going to France every 90 days to get his visa re-stamped? and how come he is working in a job a british citizen could do? he may even be wanting to buy a house. whatever next?

[madjbs]

a british chef could not cook authentic Thai cuisine!! ONLY thai people would and could be employed.

More importantly, the Thai food cooked in most Thai restaurants in the UK is verging on junk food anyway (much like the Chinese) and certainly doesn't require any sort of real culinary skills.

Its most probably like this because its been cooked by one of these skilled British chefs who has apparently mastered Thai cuisine. Anyhow, its also important for a restaurant to look authentic, high quality etc.. and it is hard for them to do this when a fat Welshman with a beard is the chef in a Thai place.

[Chloe82]

What a non-story.

[seonai]

Agree with the statement about Thaksin... how the heck does his family and himself get to stay in UK when perfectly legit Thai/UK families don't?

[Richard W]

Although not having the full story, I'm inclined to agree. The question in my mind was did this gent initiate steps to legally adopt his wife's children? If he had legally adopted the children (or at least started the process), and then brought them into the country on that basis, then I can't see where there would be an issue.

Adoption for immigration purposes is not valid for immigration purposes.

It may be that the effective method would have been to have the children's biological father murdered for not shirking his parental responsibilities and persuade the ECO that this offence would not affect the family's ability to maintain and accommodate themselves in the UK.

It will be wont it, more than likely came in a tourist and stayed,.it all sounds like doom and gloom when in fact i suspect once back in thailand and the proper visa is obtained it will be happy families once again, main problem here has been trying to avoid the airfare back to obtain the visa ,.

What family-based visa or equivalent will an adult (over 19) be able to obtain? If Mr Mudge only has UK citizenship, they'll have to plead exceptional hardship or Surinder Singh it.

[samran]

Agree with the statement about Thaksin... how the heck does his family and himself get to stay in UK when perfectly legit Thai/UK families don't?

while I didn't like the guy one bit, there would be a myriad of paths from someone like him to stay in the UK, amongst others as an investor (he bought Manchester city), highly skilled migrant etc etc. One or two of his kids there as students and thus on student visas, and even if they weren't, because the immigration authorities would likely deem them a safe bet, the would have been granted multiple return visa's to the UK no problem (if they exist!).

The other thing to remember, I think most if not all of his kids were born in the US, so they would have aquired automatic rights to a US citizenship, and hence, US passports. US passport holders get 6 months on arrival to the UK (like most western non-EU nationals), so one way or another, his kids would get to be close with him quite easily.

[naka]

This is very lame.

Naka.

[stumonster]

he probably came over on a tourist visa ...etc

or may be he came with his mother and sister when he was 16 ? now he is not a dependent ?

[mellow1]

It's a shame that this family is to be separated. It's my understanding that the UK is being overrun by immigrants. The government is trying to deal with this situation. One has to follow immigration law, no matter if its in Thailand or the UK. Should you not meet your requirements for your visa here in Thailand, the authorities would have no problem removing you from the country, and separating you from your wife, and your NATURAL children. Should of done the proper paperwork with the UK government for this young man. Feel especially sorry for the mother who has basically just lost her son.

[madjbs]

a british chef could not cook authentic Thai cuisine!! ONLY thai people would and could be employed.

More importantly, the Thai food cooked in most Thai restaurants in the UK is verging on junk food anyway (much like the Chinese) and certainly doesn't require any sort of real culinary skills.

Its most probably like this because its been cooked by one of these skilled British chefs who has apparently mastered Thai cuisine. Anyhow, its also important for a restaurant to look authentic, high quality etc.. and it is hard for them to do this when a fat Welshman with a beard is the chef in a Thai place.

You show your complete ignorance of the skills of British Chefs (some of the best in the World) and Thai cuisine in a single sentence. Remarkable.

Actually, Thai cuisine in the UK, at a restaurant level, is almost an exclusive Thai and Chinese affair. You'll not see many of the indigenous British population working in a Thai restaurant as a chef just as you won't see them in a Chinese restaurant or take-away.

The reason the food is mostly similar to junk food however is to appease the British palate, and nothing to do with what chefs are doing the cooking.

I know that there are many skilled British chefs around thank you. However these chefs which you claim are some of the best in the world don’t work in little Thai restaurants do they.

Anyway my main point is that at first you claim that many British chefs are capable of doing the job but you now state that in reality it’s almost exclusively Thai or Chinese chefs (which is true). So can you please explain why there aren’t more British chefs working in Thai, Chinese, Indian restaurants if it’s so easy for them?

[yaketyak]

When the pair married a year later they brought Sakhon's two children, Ging and his sister Kanoklak, 15, over to the UK.

I suspect the roots of their problems would be found in a full explanation of how they brought their children to the UK and on what Visa.

Of course this is the likely reason. Also they don't just come knocking at your door without you having notice that this will happen. Having said that , if it were not so difficult to bring family to settle in the UK we wouldn't have these problems. Then again it is as difficult if not more so , for us to settle in Thailand .

The real pity for me is that the whole process cannot be made more humane. Applying for a UK visa is such an unpleasant experience , made worse by the kind of people who choose to work in the embassies and the kind of people who choose to work in immigration in the UK. In my experience they are unpleasant people who no doubt get a kick out of the suffering they can so easily cause.

Ever tried to talk to one of them , its like talking to a traffic warden ... same kind of basically nasty people who love the power they have

Answer to the OP, go back to Thailand (you have no choice anyway) and apply for a settlement visa

[GuestHouse]

Applying for a UK visa is such an unpleasant experience , made worse by the kind of people who choose to work in the embassies and the kind of people who choose to work in immigration in the UK.

I suspect what these people have to deal with on a day in day out basis has a lot to do with their attitude.

[madjbs]

Applying for a UK visa is such an unpleasant experience , made worse by the kind of people who choose to work in the embassies and the kind of people who choose to work in immigration in the UK.

I suspect what these people have to deal with on a day in day out basis has a lot to do with their attitude.

While I agree with you about the reason they are like this I still don’t think it’s acceptable. If they can’t cope with the people they have to deal with then they shouldn’t be in the job. For many people they are the first point of contact with Britain. The last thing we should want is a sour taste before people have even left Thailand.