Suspended Gypsum (drywall) Ceiling

[wpcoe]

It seems to be common practice in Thailand to hang suspended ceilings using inexpensive aluminum framing that is suspended using wires, versus the old-school farang method of wood framing. The only "problem" I see using the aluminum framing method is that it is difficult to lay down fiberglass batting insulation above the gypsum. Using old fashioned wood framed ceiling, especially if the wood framing is spaced to match the width of the insulation batts, installing insulation is a snap.

Is there some reason unique to tropical climates that would make the old-fashioned wood framing impractical (other than termites)? Is the reason that the aluminum framing is so common simply the price?

Is there some easy and economical way to insulate above a suspended ceiling that uses the aluminum framing that I'm overlooking? Rolls of fiberglass insulation seems the cheapest, no?

[londonthai]

wood framing is more expensive and you would need a carpenter. The alluminium one you can do DIY.

spraying insulation foam might be a solution for you house - some 300baht/2m. Twice more expensive than fiberglass - but would include laying down.

[david96]

It seems to be common practice in Thailand to hang suspended ceilings using inexpensive aluminum framing that is suspended using wires, versus the old-school farang method of wood framing. The only "problem" I see using the aluminum framing method is that it is difficult to lay down fiberglass batting insulation above the gypsum. Using old fashioned wood framed ceiling, especially if the wood framing is spaced to match the width of the insulation batts, installing insulation is a snap.

Is there some reason unique to tropical climates that would make the old-fashioned wood framing impractical (other than termites)? Is the reason that the aluminum framing is so common simply the price?

Is there some easy and economical way to insulate above a suspended ceiling that uses the aluminum framing that I'm overlooking? Rolls of fiberglass insulation seems the cheapest, no?

Use T-Bar and 1200mm x 600mm ceiling tiles. Install the T-Bar then install the 1200mmx600mm insulation batts which should be in a cover for ease of handling. Make sure all cabling is suspended above the batts. Easy to install flush mounted luminaires.

[chownah]

My ceilings are wood framed so it is perfectly doable.....but I really don't see why you couldn't apply batt insulation almost as easily with the aluminum.....you just have to spend a bit more time positioning it around the support wires. Batt insulation is installed by just laying it on top of the ceiling....isn't that right?

Chownah

[wpcoe]

wood framing is more expensive and you would need a carpenter. The alluminium one you can do DIY.

spraying insulation foam might be a solution for you house - some 300baht/2m. Twice more expensive than fiberglass - but would include laying down.

That's what I thought: wood is do-able, but more expensive and not as easy.

I should have said that I'm asking on behalf of a friend who's renovating an older shop house. He found the roof is an A-frame and is considering ceiling options including an A-frame gypsum ceiling beneath the roof with a crawl space between the ceiling and roof. Would spray insulation foam tumble down to the lower portions leaving the upper part uninsulated? Or, did you mean the liquid spray type that adheres, like I've seen used on the underside of roofing tiles?

Use T-Bar and 1200mm x 600mm ceiling tiles. Install the T-Bar then install the 1200mmx600mm insulation batts which should be in a cover for ease of handling. Make sure all cabling is suspended above the batts. Easy to install flush mounted luminaires.

I don't think ceiling tiles is what he wants, but I understand what you are proposing.

My ceilings are wood framed so it is perfectly doable.....but I really don't see why you couldn't apply batt insulation almost as easily with the aluminum.....you just have to spend a bit more time positioning it around the support wires. Batt insulation is installed by just laying it on top of the ceiling....isn't that right?

Yes, the insulation I was thinking about would be laid directly on top of the ceiling gypsum. Maybe with good planning, the support wires could be spaced and positioned to minimize the amount cutting and positioning of the batts. The suspended gypsum ceiling work I've seen done by local contractors seemed to have a veritable jungle of support wires, which would be a nightmare to install insulation batts, especially if you couldn't crawl out over the area being insulated. I've installed rolls of insulation batting between wood beams, and just rolled the stuff out with minimum effort. Those wood beams, however, supported my body weight as I crawled along beside the insulation I was installing. I can't picture how a similar effort would work with suspension wires and flimsy aluminum framing.

I know other folks have written here about attaching the insulation batting to the underside of the roof itself, but I understand that is not nearly as effective for heat control -- it simply takes longer for the attic space to heat up, and to cool off. Is that a fair understanding?

[Rimmer]

Dedicated steel frames are way better than wooden frames. They can be laid straighter, are cheap to install and the ants do not eat them also there are no nail heads to go rusty on the nice new ceiling paint.

Putting insulation behind the ceiling board is IMHO the wrong place for it. Insulation at this point stops the room below from venting hot air into the roof space where it can be vented outside with some kind of fan or air wind. IMHO The correct place for insulation is below the tiles.

There is an Australian fiber product that you can put directly onto the ceiling, forget the name but it looks like grey wool fiber and is totally fire resisitant. They have a website and the product is available in Thailand.

[Naam]

Putting insulation behind the ceiling board is IMHO the wrong place for it. Insulation at this point stops the room below from venting hot air into the roof space where it can be vented outside with some kind of fan or air wind. IMHO The correct place for insulation is below the tiles.

LORD have mercy!

[chownah]

Those wood beams, however, supported my body weight as I crawled along beside the insulation I was installing. I can't picture how a similar effort would work with suspension wires and flimsy aluminum framing.

I know other folks have written here about attaching the insulation batting to the underside of the roof itself, but I understand that is not nearly as effective for heat control -- it simply takes longer for the attic space to heat up, and to cool off. Is that a fair understanding?

Insullation with the aluminum framing would be done from below...a row of panels would be installed and the insulation would be placed over that row....then the next row of panels would be installed. It takes longer than how you described from above but it is definitely doable and is really probably not what you should be using necessarily as a deciding factor between the two systems....it just means a few hours more work....also, remember that rolling out the insulation between wood supports only works if the wood supports spacing matches the insulation width...doesn't always happen that way.

Chownah

[wpcoe]

Insullation with the aluminum framing would be done from below...a row of panels would be installed and the insulation would be placed over that row....then the next row of panels would be installed. It takes longer than how you described from above but it is definitely doable and is really probably not what you should be using necessarily as a deciding factor between the two systems....it just means a few hours more work...

That makes perfect sense, but there's no way I would have come up with that procedure on my own...thanks!

And, yes, if I were to do wood (or steel as suggested above) beams/framing, I would definitely require they be spaced to match the width of the insulation.

Another question: If installing recessed lighting fixtures into a suspended ceiling with the fiberglass batt insulation laid out on top, how much spacing would you leave around each fixture with no insulation?

[Upcountry]

Putting insulation behind the ceiling board is IMHO the wrong place for it. Insulation at this point stops the room below from venting hot air into the roof space where it can be vented outside with some kind of fan or air wind. IMHO The correct place for insulation is below the tiles.

We couldn't find bat insulation in our town, but we did manage to find insulation that can be glued to the ceiling tiles. Our ceilings are the hung kind.

I can't say for sure if we are saving money this way, but the hope was to keep the cool air in the room, not rising into the attic.

We did have insulation installed under the roof tiles in an extension room, and this was a disaster, thanks, I guess, to the ignorance of the builder and employees. They simply placed the insulation on top of the metal roof frame and put the tiles on top of the insulation.

Result? Roof leaks which continue to this day. I'll ask about how to fix this in another thread, but suffice it so say that we are thinking of building another roof on top if the leaky one (made of fiberglass instead of zink) to hopefully solve the capillary action problem of rain water getting in under ill-fitting tiles, especially where the extension roof buts up against the old house wall.

No such thing as flashing and tar here!