Thai Elite Card & 5 Year Visa

[torrenova]

Can't people grasp what LivinLOS is saying ?

Currently he is making 30% per annum on his investments. Thus, the Elite Card investment of 1m baht costs him 300k over year one and more due to compounding in years two and onwards. He states that he spends nowhere near 300k per annum complying with any visa regulations and thus, it makes economic sense for him to leave his money in the market and not buy the card.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

But why this fixation on going to a home country consul ??

It seems to be the trend that the authorities want you to return to your country of origin when obtaining non-imm visas.

Not so.

[cobra]

Wasn't the initially buy-in when TE launched like 20g,

A 5yr hassle-free Visa for 30g sounds like a value considering the ops numbers,

The wild card which may or may not still exist is the program's future viability, might it all be tossed out overnight, for whatever reason,

Edited December 15, 2007 by cobra

[p_brownstone]

As a long term critic of the Elite Card it is increasingly clear to me that the Thai authorities now accept that the scheme as originally offered is untenable from a financial point of view, and as a result the benefits are gradually being pared away; “unlimited” Golf and Spa deals, the free tickets etc. on Thai Airways for example all have to be paid for by the Card Company and simply could not continue with no income apart from new Membership Fees and (perhaps) some investment income.

I expect to see benefits further reduced over time as a face-saving way to keep the Card viable while at the same time avoiding the embarrassment of having to close the scheme completely.

Eventually a balance point will be reached where the cost of services provided is less than the Revenue stream and the Card will thus survive.

The 5 year Visa is a benefit offered to Cardholders which has virtually no Cost to the Thai Government of the day, so in my opinion this will undoubtedly still be available in the future.

In the OP’s position it would seem an investment in the Card is worthwhile.

Patrick

[bkkrox]

While I fully accept that the programme could be closed at any time,I would just like to point out that the Thailand Elite visa is NOT a 5 year visa.It is a life time visa,self renewing every 5 years(or when your passport is full/lost/expiring,they will put a fresh 5 year visa in it)

Please no comments about what 'lifetime' means in Thai political/immigration circles.Think we have all figured out how fast things change here,just wanted to post accurate info on the visa.

[gerry1011]

Okay, another thread about under 50s residing in Thailand. Is the purchase of a Thailand Elite Card a good way to do it? ...

... My situation: Early 40s American, single, retired, financially secure. No wish to marry for a visa or start a company or business. No need or wish to work...just enjoy my stay in Thailand....

If you are "financially secure", the Thailand Elite Card is a wonderful option to enjoy Thailand.

Go for it and don't pay too much attention to the negative comments on the previous threads.

[jonniebkk]

Didnt the OP explain, that he also would have to travel back to his home country every year to renew his visa, which would also add to the cost!!

Exactly. Also, as to the suggestion of continuing to do border visa runs, first off, the fact is that this is getting more and more inviable as time goes on. Sure, if you have nothing in Thailand other than a few personal items in a small room or condo somewhere it might not be a problem if you needed to stay away for a few months (until you qualified for another entry) but for those who have "put down roots" so to speak, living off 30-day entries or even tourist visas is just not practical in some situations or desirable.

[jonniebkk]

...the Thailand Elite visa is NOT a 5 year visa.It is a life time visa,self renewing every 5 years(or when your passport is full/lost/expiring,they will put a fresh 5 year visa in it)

One thing I did not when reading in detail one of the Elite program applications I got off the net was that it said the visa was a 5-year TOURIST visa. For anyone who has one, or Sunrise, is this true? This is not the most ideal visa as for many government offices and some business (i.e., banks) prefer to see some type of non-immigrant visa for whatever service you need them to perform. Why would not they issue a non-imm O (other) visa category?

Also, if it is a tourist visa, it must be renewed every 2 months rather than 3 months for non-imms. The material I read was self-contradictory as it stated the visa received was a tourist one (therefore must renew every 2 months) but then later in the application it stated that the elite card holder could stay for 3 months and then extend in-country (as if they had a non-imm visa). So which is it?

[torrenova]

My slant on it was that it was not a business visa and a WP would be required to actually work here. However, it was supposed to be 90 days and I cannot see why not when ASEAN can get 90 days on arrival now (or soon). My understanding is that around every 90 days you go to immigration and you are automatically stamped in for another 90 days. This can continue for 5 years when the visa is automatically renewed.

Whilst I agree with LivinLOS that for him, his 1m invested provides a much better return, for those with more normal annual returns of say 10%, and perhaps aged near 40 or below, then the Elite is making more and more sense even though the benefits are being reduced.

[JonnieB]

My slant on it was that it was not a business visa and a WP would be required to actually work here. However, it was supposed to be 90 days and I cannot see why not when ASEAN can get 90 days on arrival now (or soon). My understanding is that around every 90 days you go to immigration and you are automatically stamped in for another 90 days. This can continue for 5 years when the visa is automatically renewed.

I don't need or want a non-imm B (business) visa as I don't need or want to work. However, it is the non-imm visas that are good for 90-day stays...not tourist visas. There is the non-imm O category, which stands for "other" classification and is a catch-all for situations that don't fall in the other defined visa categories. Seems it would be ideal for Elite visas.

The promotional material for Elite also mentions that they will assist in expediting a WP is the member wants/needs one so in this case, it seems the visa necessary would not be a tourist one but a non-imm B. Or they may just be talking out of their a#s% again...like with the owing land rights they touted in the beginning.

[Meerkat]

One thing I did not when reading in detail one of the Elite program applications I got off the net was that it said the visa was a 5-year TOURIST visa. For anyone who has one, or Sunrise, is this true? This is not the most ideal visa as for many government offices and some business (i.e., banks) prefer to see some type of non-immigrant visa for whatever service you need them to perform. Why would not they issue a non-imm O (other) visa category?

Also, if it is a tourist visa, it must be renewed every 2 months rather than 3 months for non-imms. The material I read was self-contradictory as it stated the visa received was a tourist one (therefore must renew every 2 months) but then later in the application it stated that the elite card holder could stay for 3 months and then extend in-country (as if they had a non-imm visa). So which is it?

OK a slight clarification. The visa is marked as a "Special Entry Visa", rather than a tourist or non-imm one. Each entry stamp gets you 90 days, and that 90 days can be renewed either on-shore at an immigration office, or automatically each time you fly back in. I've never tried to renew on-shore as my travel pattern means I'm in and out of the country every couple of weeks/months anyway.

[torrenova]

That makes sense, making it a special visa.

[bkkrox]

...the Thailand Elite visa is NOT a 5 year visa.It is a life time visa,self renewing every 5 years(or when your passport is full/lost/expiring,they will put a fresh 5 year visa in it)

One thing I did not when reading in detail one of the Elite program applications I got off the net was that it said the visa was a 5-year TOURIST visa. For anyone who has one, or Sunrise, is this true? This is not the most ideal visa as for many government offices and some business (i.e., banks) prefer to see some type of non-immigrant visa for whatever service you need them to perform. Why would not they issue a non-imm O (other) visa category?

Also, if it is a tourist visa, it must be renewed every 2 months rather than 3 months for non-imms. The material I read was self-contradictory as it stated the visa received was a tourist one (therefore must renew every 2 months) but then later in the application it stated that the elite card holder could stay for 3 months and then extend in-country (as if they had a non-imm visa). So which is it?

It is neither non-imm "o" nor a tourist visa. It is a special multiple entry visa. As for needing work permit,banking or drivers' license assistance,Thailand Elite claims to streamline procedures with government agencies and has some sort of relationship with Bangkok Bank. I have never used any of these services so dont have further info but you could call the member hotline (023523000) for specifics.

[007]

From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence)....

How do you know that the next government won't 'nullify' the scheme? That would be an expensive short-term privileged stay...

Edited December 16, 2007 by 7

[LivinLOS]

Didnt the OP explain, that he also would have to travel back to his home country every year to renew his visa, which would also add to the cost!!

Exactly. Also, as to the suggestion of continuing to do border visa runs, first off, the fact is that this is getting more and more inviable as time goes on. Sure, if you have nothing in Thailand other than a few personal items in a small room or condo somewhere it might not be a problem if you needed to stay away for a few months (until you qualified for another entry) but for those who have "put down roots" so to speak, living off 30-day entries or even tourist visas is just not practical in some situations or desirable.

But you dont have to go home.. You have to go to a friendly consul for another 1 year non imm multi visa.. That could be a b with a company invite letter. it could be investigating investment opportunities, it could be visiting friends and family it could be one of many reasons.. As long as your not applying in SA Asian local consuls this isnt so bad. I heard last year (so not current) people were getting 1 year non imm B multi with the basic company sponser / invite letter from as close as Sri Lanka, an inexpensive short hop away.

Secondly if your one of a few lucky nationalities that accept applications by post you can simply leave thailand, take a little vacation, courier your passport (preferably second passport) back to the easy consul and get a non imm that way.. Its cheap, its convenient, its legal and it works very very well.

Then once you have a long stay visa there is no 'visa running every 30 days' no tourist visas, no embassy visits, no clerical shit or worries about whats to happen next month. You have to be outside Thailand at a minimum of once every 90 days (not much, I usually am anyway so the whole thing becomes moot) or at worst you drive to a border town and deal with the minor hassle (I wouldnt use a tour, not pleasant.. I drive myself and its just a few hours country drive along the nice andaman coast road.. Hardly a killer day and I am usually home by 3) you only need to border run of course to refresh a new 90 day entry, no applications or otherwise, totally painless.

Each 1 year visa can give you 15 months with careful use.

The key here is getting a long stay 1 year non imm multi. Currently these are on offer in a few places around the globe for any nationality as a walk in. People will spend hours every 3 months checking up on where will give them a tourist visa, getting denied, getting red stamps, filling passports with travel and travel costs. Now thats fine if you enjoy going to the places you go to the get them but I personally would like to do it once and be good to go for a year+. Plus I dont feel like a tourist so I prefer the non imm and ease with which I can get driving licenses, bank accounts, cars, phone lines etc.

[LivinLOS]

I expect to see benefits further reduced over time as a face-saving way to keep the Card viable while at the same time avoiding the embarrassment of having to close the scheme completely.

Eventually a balance point will be reached where the cost of services provided is less than the Revenue stream and the Card will thus survive.

The 5 year Visa is a benefit offered to Cardholders which has virtually no Cost to the Thai Government of the day, so in my opinion this will undoubtedly still be available in the future.

But what revenue stream does the card produce ?? Did annual fees get started ??

Theres the card sale of course.. But this is a card allegedly for a lifetime.. I also understood the program was heavily in debt (do they still owe 300m to CNN ??) so card sales have a long way to go to ensure survival..

I actually see a price rise in the face of not so robust sales numbers may be a desperate act.. Of course as so little of the information about the program is public its hard to tell. Do they have to publish accounts ??

[LivinLOS]

One more point.. Does the literature about the card clearly not say that this card is not for residents of Thailand ?? That its for visiting high net worth people ?? I was sure that was the whole slant on it.

Visit, easy visa, fast immigration (does this happen outside bkk ?? I cant see any special lanes on Phuket for this service) limo laid on, golf included, spa and massage included, concierge service to help with things, and fast track immigration out again to your HOME !!

I seem to remember that was how it was designed no ??

[ovenman]

One more point.. Does the literature about the card clearly not say that this card is not for residents of Thailand ?? That its for visiting high net worth people ?? I was sure that was the whole slant on it.

Visit, easy visa, fast immigration (does this happen outside bkk ?? I cant see any special lanes on Phuket for this service) limo laid on, golf included, spa and massage included, concierge service to help with things, and fast track immigration out again to your HOME !!

I seem to remember that was how it was designed no ??

That was exactly how the Elite Card was initially offered (i.e. for non-residents) but over time, I think they were happy just to make another sale... any sale.

[Meerkat]

One more point.. Does the literature about the card clearly not say that this card is not for residents of Thailand ?? That its for visiting high net worth people ?? I was sure that was the whole slant on it.

Visit, easy visa, fast immigration (does this happen outside bkk ?? I cant see any special lanes on Phuket for this service) limo laid on, golf included, spa and massage included, concierge service to help with things, and fast track immigration out again to your HOME !!

I seem to remember that was how it was designed no ??

Sort of. It was designed as a way of facilitating visiting/staying in Thailand for non-residents, although of course the visa does allow one to become quasi-resident (whenever one of the TE girls picks me up at the arrival-gate, it's always "Welcome home Khun Meerkat"). I don't know it as gospel, but I believe for instance that one couldn't use the visa to rack up time towards PR. Just to confuse matters though, when it was originally launched, there were two price levels depending upon whether one was based in Thailand or not, but I think that policy was fairly short-lived.

(Regarding the fast-track immigration/limo, it's for Suvarnabhumi, Phuket and Chiang Mai airports only.)

[asiaworld]

johnybkk .. funny how you figures don't add up .. You say you manage couple of mil's $$, but calculate the cost of visa runs ?!? read my opinion in your other thread about thai elite .,, but strange nevertheless ,. i don't have as much funds, as you say you have , but in my opinion living on honorary consulate visas, was VERY easy .. i travel to europe ew times a year, without worrying about costs, just because i like it , and once you're in the honorary consulate & they get to know you , it usually takes less than half an hour for them to get you a one year multi visa *(esp. IF you can show them how much $$$ you've got )

[SamuiBond]

Each 1 year visa can give you 15 months with careful use.

The key here is getting a long stay 1 year non imm multi. Currently these are on offer in a few places around the globe for any nationality as a walk in. People will spend hours every 3 months checking up on where will give them a tourist visa, getting denied, getting red stamps, filling passports with travel and travel costs. Now thats fine if you enjoy going to the places you go to the get them but I personally would like to do it once and be good to go for a year+. Plus I dont feel like a tourist so I prefer the non imm and ease with which I can get driving licenses, bank accounts, cars, phone lines etc.

I had one when I got here the first time. It is brilliant, and cheap. I wonder where European can walk in (closest) now to get one...?

What Elite advertises is 5 year renewable multiple entry visa. This is basically what they guarantee and since Tourism Authority of Thailand backs this scheme up its not going away over night nor will it be nullified. Those who spend the money will get their 5 years but no guarantees after that. Its their way to say - Hey, spend your money here rather than going in the neighbour if you really do have some wealth. Golf here, pamper yourself in here.

However, I think this is a two faced thinking. In a first place all these additional tightnings on tourist visa issues were aimed against "cutting down criminals staying in Thailand on renewable tourist visas". Usually these criminals have made their money by crime and this is one of their way to stick around without problems. I don't think Elite group will go through any extra scrutiny getting this Elite visa. All this tourist visa tightning policy does is that poor criminals (or tourists, that could support themselves with their savings) has to figure out new ways to do visaruns.

This is not to say that Elite has anything to with criminals but I'm just speculating of the tactics/ wisdom of the policies that are currently at place.

Edited December 16, 2007 by SamuiBond

[LivinLOS]

Each 1 year visa can give you 15 months with careful use.

The key here is getting a long stay 1 year non imm multi. Currently these are on offer in a few places around the globe for any nationality as a walk in. People will spend hours every 3 months checking up on where will give them a tourist visa, getting denied, getting red stamps, filling passports with travel and travel costs. Now thats fine if you enjoy going to the places you go to the get them but I personally would like to do it once and be good to go for a year+. Plus I dont feel like a tourist so I prefer the non imm and ease with which I can get driving licenses, bank accounts, cars, phone lines etc.

I had one when I got here the first time. It is brilliant, and cheap. I wonder where European can walk in (closest) now to get one...?

A simple non imm O can be got in Oz if looking for 'visiting friend and family' class.

I would be curious about the nearest / easiest non imm B multi with a (very basic and simple) company sponsorship letter.. India is easy accessible and very cheap to get to, I had heard Sri Lanka used in the past.

[JonnieB]

It is neither non-imm "o" nor a tourist visa. It is a special multiple entry visa. As for needing work permit,banking or drivers' license assistance,Thailand Elite claims to streamline procedures with government agencies and has some sort of relationship with Bangkok Bank. I have never used any of these services so dont have further info but you could call the member hotline (023523000) for specifics.

Thanks for the clarifications from all above. I have a driver's license now and when it is time to renew, if you have a tourist visa, they will only renew for 1 year but if you have any type of non-imm, they will renew for 5 years. Don't know about a "special entry" visa but would assume it gets you the 5 year renewal

[JonnieB]

From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa. The visa is renewable in perpetuity (as long as the scheme is in existence)....

How do you know that the next government won't 'nullify' the scheme? That would be an expensive short-term privileged stay...

You don't...that's the risk. However, there is no GIUARANTEED that the government will not decree that all foreigners who are not Thai citizens must leave the country when their current visa expires. Nothing in life is guaranteed. In my case, even if the program last 5-6 years, it has served it's purpose for me and I am in break-even territory financially (without even considering any of the other privileges but the visa run savings costs).

[cm-happy]

I would be VERY,VERY careful and cautious about the 5 year visa with an elite card. Check, and tripple check before getting one for 1,000,000 B, thinking it is THE solution. If it really were then it would be so much more popular.

Try going to local immigration station and asking, if indeed the elite visa card, membership automatically comes with a 5 year visa, no strings attached.

[JonnieB]

But you dont have to go home.. You have to go to a friendly consul for another 1 year non imm multi visa.. That could be a b with a company invite letter. it could be investigating investment opportunities, it could be visiting friends and family it could be one of many reasons.. As long as your not applying in SA Asian local consuls this isnt so bad. I heard last year (so not current) people were getting 1 year non imm B multi with the basic company sponser / invite letter from as close as Sri Lanka, an inexpensive short hop away.

The key here is getting a long stay 1 year non imm multi. Currently these are on offer in a few places around the globe for any nationality as a walk in. People will spend hours every 3 months checking up on where will give them a tourist visa, getting denied, getting red stamps, filling passports with travel and travel costs. Now thats fine if you enjoy going to the places you go to the get them but I personally would like to do it once and be good to go for a year+. Plus I dont feel like a tourist so I prefer the non imm and ease with which I can get driving licenses, bank accounts, cars, phone lines etc.

This could be a viable course of action for some people. For Australians and EU citizens, their consulates/embassies seem much more forthcoming with non-imm multi visas. But in the USA, for some reason, it's like pulling hen's teeth to get these. However, even taking this course of action, it assumes that things won't tighten-up world-wide in the future. Plus, don't forget, I am talking about an under-50 applicant.

Even if one chose this option, financially, for me, the Elite card is still somewhat competitive. A trip annually to someplace that will issue a non-imm to someone in my situation (and that I wouldn't mind visiting for a few days to a week) will cost US4 3000-4000. So doing 8 of these till I'm 50 would be US$ 24,000-32,000. Right in the ballpark of the Thai Elite Card cost. Plus with Elite, you get fast track at the airports and some other en sundry services. Plus, again assuming the program stays in existence in basically the same form) I can continue with this even after reaching 50. No more annoying annual renewals as I get older and feebler.

[JonnieB]

One more point.. Does the literature about the card clearly not say that this card is not for residents of Thailand ?? That its for visiting high net worth people ?? I was sure that was the whole slant on it.

I seem to remember that was how it was designed no ??

Cannot be Thai citizens. The promotional literature promotes use of the program for foreigners reside/live in Thailand

[JonnieB]

johnybkk .. funny how you figures don't add up .. You say you manage couple of mil's $$, but calculate the cost of visa runs ?!? read my opinion in your other thread about thai elite .,, but strange nevertheless ,. i don't have as much funds, as you say you have

Asia...I think you confused my op with another person who replied and gave some figures on how much money he had and the rate of return he made on it annually.

[sriracha john]

I see membership as a financial proposition. From this angle, it makes some sense. For 1 million baht (US$ 30,000) a member receives a renewable 5-year "Thai Elite" visa.

We've been told Monday is the deadline to still get the million Baht price ( you need to fill out the application.) It goes up on Jan 1st 2008 to 1.5 million Baht

Well, it's Monday now and presuming you didn't purchase one over the weekend, does the new figure of (US$49,423.39) affect the detailed calculations contained in your OP?

[asiaworld]

well i may.. but still makes me wonder.. very comfortable trip to UK (as long as you keep it short ) would fit easily in 2,000$ bill (slightly more for US,slightly less for OZ) .. C'mon you don't hate your home countries THAT much do you..

Also i find it hard to beleive, that ThaiElite visa allows you to park ur arse here for 5 years nonstop, without need for visa run/reporting, or any extra endorsments !!!>>now that would make IT BETTER than even Thai PR !! Are they Really THAT generous??!! Only a feedback from successful TE card holder may tell us !! Do they just stamp your passp. allowed to stay until...5years from now ?!? with no strings attached .. Think & ask.. i'm curious to know,if it's really Christmas