Just Married..wife Name Change

[mekka]

HEy guys, we just got married 2 days ago and we want to change her surname and get her new ID card....can this be done at ANY amphur office or does it have to be her own (Nong Khai) As we currently live in Phuket and she is heavily pregnant and she cannot fly anymore...and we would really like the name changed before the baby is born..anybody know any ways around this?

[gburns57au]

HEy guys, we just got married 2 days ago and we want to change her surname and get her new ID card....can this be done at ANY amphur office or does it have to be her own (Nong Khai) As we currently live in Phuket and she is heavily pregnant and she cannot fly anymore...and we would really like the name changed before the baby is born..anybody know any ways around this?

This from Davids post in another thread....

"1. Marriage registration can be filed at any District Office or Minor District Office nationwide regardless of the birthplace of the couple.

2. Once the marriage registration is completed, each party will be given a copy of the Marriage Registration Certificate as evidence.

3. If the marriage registration is filed at the District Office located in female's birthplace (where the name is registered on the House Registration Certificate), the title used with the forename and the last name of the female will be changed by the District Officer. The female is required to file for a new Identification Card within 60 days. A service fee of 10 baht is required. If the marriage is registered elsewhere, the female is required to contact the local District Office to change her name and last name, as well as filing for a new Identification Card.

4. If both parties are unable to file for marriage at any District Office of Minor District Office, the couple can submit a request to the Registrar to register their marriage at any location under the supervision of that District Office. The parties filing for marriage are required to provide transportation for the Registrar. A service fee of 200 baht is required."

So it would seem she can do that at the local Amphur Office.....

Perhaps you could enquire there if it is a legal requirement to change the name and report back to us.

That would clear up a point of issue for us.

Point 3 indicates that her title would change....eg: Miss to Mrs.....not necessarily the surname.

Edited December 16, 2007 by gburns57au

[Gimbo]

HEy guys, we just got married 2 days ago and we want to change her surname and get her new ID card....can this be done at ANY amphur office or does it have to be her own (Nong Khai) As we currently live in Phuket and she is heavily pregnant and she cannot fly anymore...and we would really like the name changed before the baby is born..anybody know any ways around this?

My wife is reasonably sure that your wife can bring paperwork into any amphur and have it done provided she has her old ID Card, and Tabien Ban + marriage certificate.

Why don't you have your wife call the local Amphur and ask?

[Lite Beer]

HEy guys, we just got married 2 days ago and we want to change her surname and get her new ID card....can this be done at ANY amphur office or does it have to be her own (Nong Khai) As we currently live in Phuket and she is heavily pregnant and she cannot fly anymore...and we would really like the name changed before the baby is born..anybody know any ways around this?

My wife is reasonably sure that your wife can bring paperwork into any amphur and have it done provided she has her old ID Card, and Tabien Ban + marriage certificate.

Why don't you have your wife call the local Amphur and ask?

My wife also agrees with the above. She says No problem , can do in Phuket.

[mekka]

Thats what i thought...no problem, but we attempted to do this in BKK just after we were given our marriage certificates, and they said no she has to go home to do it..but she cannot fly anymore and to go home is a major hassle...might have to pay Amphur oin Phuket a visit and see what they say...ill keep u guys posted.

[fishhooks]

We were told today, no need for wife to change family name: Up to her!

[david96]

Informative only.

Website http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/marry.htm

Marriage

Marriage Registration

Regulations

A couple must be of legal age (17 years) upon filing for marriage registration, otherwise permission must be granted by a court.

Permission from the parents is required for parties under legal age.

Both parties must not be registered as married to anyone else (Multiple marriage registration is prohibited).

The parties must not be direct blood relatives nor be sister or brother through either parent.

Adopting parents shall not be permitted to marry their own adopted child.

A widow or divorcee will be permitted to remarry not less than 310 days after the previous marriage has expired, unless

Has given birth to a child.

Remarrying the same person.

Not pregnant, as certified by doctor. (in case of early remarriage)

Approval to remarry from a court is obtained.

No service fee is required whatsoever.

Required Documents

Identification Cards of both parties.

The House Registration Certificates of both parties.

If an alien is registering to be married to a Thai citizen or another alien, he or she is required to submit following documents.

A copy of their passport.

A Letter of Certification, issued by an Embassy or Consulate or a Government Organization from their country, regarding the marital status of the person. The Letter must be translated, then certified by the relevant Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Procedures

Marriage registration can be filed at any District Office or Minor District Office nationwide regardless of the birthplace of the couple.

Once the marriage registration is completed, each party will be given a copy of the Marriage Registration Certificate as evidence.

If the marriage registration is filed at the District Office located in female's birthplace (where the name is registered on the House Registration Certificate), the title used with the forename and the last name of the female will be changed by the District Officer. The female is required to file for a new Identification Card within 60 days. A service fee of 10 baht is required. If the marriage is registered elsewhere, the female is required to contact the local District Office to change her name and last name, as well as filing for a new Identification Card.

If both parties are unable to file for marriage at any District Office of Minor District Office, the couple can submit a request to the Registrar to register their marriage at any location under the supervision of that District Office. The parties filing for marriage are required to provide transportation for the Registrar. A service fee of 200 baht is required.

[vinny]

We were told today, no need for wife to change family name: Up to her!

See also Thai Women Allowed to Keep Maiden Names.

[david96]

We were told today, no need for wife to change family name: Up to her!

It is up to the Thai wife to decide if she wants to change her name or not. The number on her ID card does not change, only her last name and title. Remember that that the ID card is used to apply for a passport and a bank account, work and tax requirements so the name should be the same. TiT rules here. If you are both going to settle in Australia it probably does not matter as changing ones name to that of her husband has always been traditional if you are legally married.

If on the other hand you were to live with your wife in Thailand (on a non O with extension / wife support) it might be a different matter.

Remember TiT, "this is Thailand". Interpretations can be different and can vary with respect to regulations.

[gburns57au]

We were told today, no need for wife to change family name: Up to her!

Thanks for that Fishy,

That was my understanding of the situation...I gotta admit that David threw a bit of a googly in there with his quotes from a farang Law firm in Thailand...it would seem that these firms do not update their websites as often as they should.

So the wife doesnt have to change her name....if she chooses not to, then all she has to do is advise the Amphur Office of that when registering the marriage and there should be no requirement for her to get a new ID card.

Edited December 26, 2007 by gburns57au

[fishhooks]

Yep, no worries.

Love David's explicit replies and quotes, but frightens me a tad sometimes.

I should have pointed out in my brief response above, that the lady who told us not to concern at all about changing name, was the lady who did the Marriage Rego for us at the Amphur yesterday.

She seemed to know her stuff and we were at a Computer Terminal for all of the time of this quick ceremony.

Thus she had all of my wife's details up on the screen in front of her, as well as all info in general.

Sawadee Kup and out the door, now in Korat and the next move to Bangkok and English translation of the Marriage Cert.

[david96]

We were told today, no need for wife to change family name: Up to her!

Thanks for that Fishy,

That was my understanding of the situation...I gotta admit that David threw a bit of a googly in there with his quotes from a farang Law firm in Thailand...it would seem that these firms do not update their websites as often as they should.

So the wife doesnt have to change her name....if she chooses not to, then all she has to do is advise the Amphur Office of that when registering the marriage and there should be no requirement for her to get a new ID card.

Actually that website is the Thai Dept of Public Administration, covers marriage, divorce and other registration matters, births and deaths etc.

[gburns57au]

Actually that website is the Thai Dept of Public Administration, covers marriage, divorce and other registration matters, births and deaths etc.

I must apologise David....

The DOPA doesnt update its site as often as it should then...

In a previous thread you had quoted the same article without a real source to it, you had also quoted from a farang law firm, I just tied the two together and looked at some other sites which carried the same thing. I admit I didnt look at the source note on the top of the post in this thread.

But it is really swings and roundabouts. The passage, no matter what the source is wrong or at the very least misleading.

[david96]

Actually that website is the Thai Dept of Public Administration, covers marriage, divorce and other registration matters, births and deaths etc.

I must apologise David....

The DOPA doesnt update its site as often as it should then...

In a previous thread you had quoted the same article without a real source to it, you had also quoted from a farang law firm, I just tied the two together and looked at some other sites which carried the same thing. I admit I didnt look at the source note on the top of the post in this thread.

But it is really swings and roundabouts. The passage, no matter what the source is wrong or at the very least misleading.

Graham,

It is one of the problems when dealing with Thai Govt Deptments, rules change, are changed and not implemented and then one gets different interpretations from individual Thai civil servants. There can be problems with translations.

In law only the Thai language regulations prevail. English is informative only.

[gburns57au]

Graham,

It is one of the problems when dealing with Thai Govt Deptments, rules change, are changed and not implemented and then one gets different interpretations from individual Thai civil servants. There can be problems with translations.

In law only the Thai language regulations prevail. English is informative only.

Yes I am aware of that David, I am also acutely aware of how fast the Oz immigration laws change.

On the site you quoted from, one page was last updated in 2001....that shows just how outdated this info is....And the farang law firms quote from this extract also....that is why I rely heavily on the experiences of the members here to give advice and not so much on websites with the exception of the Immi and VFS websites which are kept current.

[david96]

Graham,

It is one of the problems when dealing with Thai Govt Deptments, rules change, are changed and not implemented and then one gets different interpretations from individual Thai civil servants. There can be problems with translations.

In law only the Thai language regulations prevail. English is informative only.

Yes I am aware of that David, I am also acutely aware of how fast the Oz immigration laws change.

On the site you quoted from, one page was last updated in 2001....that shows just how outdated this info is....And the farang law firms quote from this extract also....that is why I rely heavily on the experiences of the members here to give advice and not so much on websites with the exception of the Immi and VFS websites which are kept current.

Yes Graham, Australian Immigration Regulations do change but they are applied equally to all applicants and all DIAC offices are notified at the same time.

But Thailand is different. Remember Thailand has different legal system to that of Australia and a different way of interpreting regulations, and the Thai language takes precedence.However as long as one gets the result one wants you have obtained your objective.It is difficult to keep up with changes to Thai law accross the board,most problems occur with their interpretation at various offices.

There is one good reason for a Thai woman to change her name to that of her husband, it is proof that she is legally married, same family names on passports can be important when travelling in Asian countries eg, at Thai and foreign immigration checkpoints and checking into some hotels.

The other is when your wife is living with you in Australia it is a lot easier for her and you if she was to use the name of her husband in many cases. Thai family names can be long and difficult to pronounce.

[aussiebob]

.

"when your wife is living with you in Australia it is a lot easier for her and you if she was to use the name of her husband in many cases. Thai family names can be long and difficult to pronounce".

David 96,

wife and I havn't encountered any problems witrh her using Thai name in Oz yet Could you give us some examples so we will be prepared.

Cheers Bob and Lek

[david96]

.

"when your wife is living with you in Australia it is a lot easier for her and you if she was to use the name of her husband in many cases. Thai family names can be long and difficult to pronounce".

David 96,

wife and I havn't encountered any problems witrh her using Thai name in Oz yet Could you give us some examples so we will be prepared.

Cheers Bob and Lek

Telephone calls are one instance, its not you that have the problem it is the person calling your wife. Not that important .

However if someome writes their name down I ask them how it is pronounced if it is not obvious. (and hope I can remember it)

[lopburi3]

The first step seems to be the home register and name must be changed on that, even if only to change from Miss to Mrs. within 60 days. Once that is done the ID card/passports can be done using that as the basis.

Am not sure the home register can be changed outside of the issuing district so that might be the catch 22 - although there have been major changes to simplify the ID process in recent years.

[david96]

The first step seems to be the home register and name must be changed on that, even if only to change from Miss to Mrs. within 60 days. Once that is done the ID card/passports can be done using that as the basis.

Am not sure the home register can be changed outside of the issuing district so that might be the catch 22 - although there have been major changes to simplify the ID process in recent years.

The new ID cards were planned to have a chip embedded in the card and could carry more information, part of the computerisation program of the Thai Govt.

[fishhooks]

Hope I'm not into a 'Catch 22' situation here.

Married a few days ago (25th DEC) at the local Amphur and yes my wife's title has been changed at that time from MISS to MRS on the Tabien Cert. (Family name not changed thus Maiden)

But her Passport which we have been using for about 1 year, states MISS!

Is this going to be a problem with the Oz Spouse Application?

Obviously don't want to get a new Passport if possible!

On a slightly different question;

The Oz Spouse Application info states that the Thai Marriage Certificate needs to be presented (translated of course) along with a number of other stated documents. Quite easy to understand what is required here and thus I take it that the only doc needed to do with the marriage is the actual Marriage document itself!

When getting the Marriage Certificate and the other required documents translated from Thai to English today, the guy doing the translation (across the road from Consular Affairs) mentioned that some Amphurs also give you a further 'verification document' along with your Marriage Certs., which "SOME" Embassies require. I think he said Canada for one.

Thus, does anyone know if the Australian Embassy requires this 'other' verification doc along with the Marriage certificate?

If so, they certainly do not say this in their Thai or English instructions.

We intend to start the application process in a couple of weeks time, so probably not a real problem to go back to the Amphur, but a bl..dy nuisance if we need to!

[gburns57au]

Hope I'm not into a 'Catch 22' situation here.

Married a few days ago (25th DEC) at the local Amphur and yes my wife's title has been changed at that time from MISS to MRS on the Tabien Cert. (Family name not changed thus Maiden)

But her Passport which we have been using for about 1 year, states MISS!

Is this going to be a problem with the Oz Spouse Application?

Obviously don't want to get a new Passport if possible!

On a slightly different question;

The Oz Spouse Application info states that the Thai Marriage Certificate needs to be presented (translated of course) along with a number of other stated documents. Quite easy to understand what is required here and thus I take it that the only doc needed to do with the marriage is the actual Marriage document itself!

When getting the Marriage Certificate and the other required documents translated from Thai to English today, the guy doing the translation (across the road from Consular Affairs) mentioned that some Amphurs also give you a further 'verification document' along with your Marriage Certs., which "SOME" Embassies require. I think he said Canada for one.

Thus, does anyone know if the Australian Embassy requires this 'other' verification doc along with the Marriage certificate?

If so, they certainly do not say this in their Thai or English instructions.

We intend to start the application process in a couple of weeks time, so probably not a real problem to go back to the Amphur, but a bl..dy nuisance if we need to!

Not that I am aware of, however some other members could be more forthcoming with this....

My thoughts are that you should include it....for 2 reasons...

1) Why wait to see if they ask for it....it could delay a decision.

2) Supply anything that you think could be good evidence....this would fall into that category.

The house cert being changed is unlikely to affect the passport use...Usually identity confirmation is done using the Thai ID card.

But it would be prudent to play safe....enquire at Thai Immigration or the passport Office to make sure.

Graham

Edited December 28, 2007 by gburns57au

[lopburi3]

All Thai ID must match. So passport will need to be changed; and ID card. On the old passport there was a place to make the name change but not sure that is available on the new passports.

If they don't say you need something you probably don't need it. I made translations of marriage certificate and had them registered with the MFA (just as you do to get married) and have used one of these for pension but live in Thailand so have no experience with foreign immigration or Oz.

[gburns57au]

Yes Graham, Australian Immigration Regulations do change but they are applied equally to all applicants and all DIAC offices are notified at the same time.

But Thailand is different. Remember Thailand has different legal system to that of Australia and a different way of interpreting regulations, and the Thai language takes precedence.However as long as one gets the result one wants you have obtained your objective.It is difficult to keep up with changes to Thai law accross the board,most problems occur with their interpretation at various offices.

There is one good reason for a Thai woman to change her name to that of her husband, it is proof that she is legally married, same family names on passports can be important when travelling in Asian countries eg, at Thai and foreign immigration checkpoints and checking into some hotels.

The other is when your wife is living with you in Australia it is a lot easier for her and you if she was to use the name of her husband in many cases. Thai family names can be long and difficult to pronounce.

Most problems I have seen is with Thais interpreting Oz regulations and farangs interpreting Thai regulations......the Thais have an uncanny knack of interpreting their own language and laws quite well.

I know many couples where the wife has retained her maiden name.....it certainly hasnt caused them any problems....Many Thai people do not register their marriages and therefore many Thai couples have different surnames....as is the case in many Asian countries...yet strangely this doesnt cause too much confusion.

While our celebrant did have a hard time with my wifes name in full, he had to use it for the legal bits. In most cases as long as it written in English the pronounciation isnt that important. I know many Polish, Scandinavian, German, Jewish, and Middle East names (Just to name a few) that are hard to pronounce....Even some English names can be hard to pronounce...Why should it be a big problem for Thais ??

[gburns57au]

All Thai ID must match. So passport will need to be changed; and ID card. On the old passport there was a place to make the name change but not sure that is available on the new passports.

While I can agree with that Lopburi.....the house cert is not usually something that Thais carry around, for sure the ID and the passport should match.

As I said....it would be prudent to check it out to avoid any potential problems and also to play the safe course.

[david96]

Yes Graham, Australian Immigration Regulations do change but they are applied equally to all applicants and all DIAC offices are notified at the same time.

But Thailand is different. Remember Thailand has different legal system to that of Australia and a different way of interpreting regulations, and the Thai language takes precedence.However as long as one gets the result one wants you have obtained your objective.It is difficult to keep up with changes to Thai law accross the board,most problems occur with their interpretation at various offices.

There is one good reason for a Thai woman to change her name to that of her husband, it is proof that she is legally married, same family names on passports can be important when travelling in Asian countries eg, at Thai and foreign immigration checkpoints and checking into some hotels.

The other is when your wife is living with you in Australia it is a lot easier for her and you if she was to use the name of her husband in many cases. Thai family names can be long and difficult to pronounce.

Most problems I have seen is with Thais interpreting Oz regulations and farangs interpreting Thai regulations......the Thais have an uncanny knack of interpreting their own language and laws quite well.

I know many couples where the wife has retained her maiden name.....it certainly hasnt caused them any problems....Many Thai people do not register their marriages and therefore many Thai couples have different surnames....as is the case in many Asian countries...yet strangely this doesnt cause too much confusion.

While our celebrant did have a hard time with my wifes name in full, he had to use it for the legal bits. In most cases as long as it written in English the pronounciation isnt that important. I know many Polish, Scandinavian, German, Jewish, and Middle East names (Just to name a few) that are hard to pronounce....Even some English names can be hard to pronounce...Why should it be a big problem for Thais ??

Yes there are problems with Thai officials interpreting their own regulations but the average foreigner (eg Australian) who marries or cohabits as a defacto and takes his wife to live in his own country will have minimal contact with Thai bureaucracy. Thai Immigration and the MFA are examples of how Thai interpretations vary.You have to know how the Thai system works, and one only learns by experience over the years.

But then we intend to reside in Thailand later and it might be sooner if we are lucky.

[gburns57au]

Interpretation of law is a world wide issue, even in Oz and Oz immigration, and I dont mean at a street level...Some of our top judges and lawyers have difficulty with it. I think that laws have to be flexible and open to interpretation.

"the average foreigner (eg Australian) who marries or cohabits as a defacto and takes his wife to live in his own country will have minimal contact with Thai bureaucracy. Thai Immigration and the MFA are examples of how Thai interpretations vary.You have to know how the Thai system works, and one only learns by experience over the years."

Which is why I dont post in the other topic that deals with Immigration and visas to Thailand. however I do have some idea of how the Thai system works....Just because I havent lived there doesnt mean that I havent learnt a bit about it through my travels there.

I take it you have some experience over the years then David ??

[david96]

Interpretation of law is a world wide issue, even in Oz and Oz immigration, and I dont mean at a street level...Some of our top judges and lawyers have difficulty with it. I think that laws have to be flexible and open to interpretation.

"the average foreigner (eg Australian) who marries or cohabits as a defacto and takes his wife to live in his own country will have minimal contact with Thai bureaucracy. Thai Immigration and the MFA are examples of how Thai interpretations vary.You have to know how the Thai system works, and one only learns by experience over the years."

Which is why I dont post in the other topic that deals with Immigration and visas to Thailand. however I do have some idea of how the Thai system works....Just because I havent lived there doesnt mean that I havent learnt a bit about it through my travels there.

I take it you have some experience over the years then David ??

Yes Graham, over the last 18 years one has seen a lot of changes, political, economic and social and one might add I had no problems with Thai bureaucracy what ever they wanted was supplied but that is my personal experience.

One thing I do like about Thailand is there is no "political correctness" as in Western countries, eg the word "partner" for ones legal wife for one. Also helps if you do not carry baggage from previous "marriages" etc, things run a lot smoother,

I am lucky in that regard.

[gburns57au]

Yes Graham, over the last 18 years one has seen a lot of changes, political, economic and social and one might add I had no problems with Thai bureaucracy what ever they wanted was supplied but that is my personal experience.

One thing I do like about Thailand is there is no "political correctness" as in Western countries, eg the word "partner" for ones legal wife for one. Also helps if you do not carry baggage from previous "marriages" etc, things run a lot smoother,

I am lucky in that regard.

Well David that gives us about equal experience as far as time goes...

Formal political correctness is very big in Thai Society....heaven help if you address someone of note in the wrong manner.

Even the beautiful gesture of wai-ing is done with political correctness...the height and bow is related to the importance of the person it is given to in relation to your own social standing. Giving the wrong wai can be insulting or embarrassing depending on the status of the person receiving the wai.

As for baggage...that applies to all relationships, not just Thai ones.....I took a trip to see my ex in Buriram just after I met my current wife...I believe that, that gave me the closure I needed to continue my current relationship, the what ifs were no longer around.

[david96]

Yes Graham, over the last 18 years one has seen a lot of changes, political, economic and social and one might add I had no problems with Thai bureaucracy what ever they wanted was supplied but that is my personal experience.

One thing I do like about Thailand is there is no "political correctness" as in Western countries, eg the word "partner" for ones legal wife for one. Also helps if you do not carry baggage from previous "marriages" etc, things run a lot smoother,

I am lucky in that regard.

Well David that gives us about equal experience as far as time goes...

Formal political correctness is very big in Thai Society....heaven help if you address someone of note in the wrong manner.

Even the beautiful gesture of wai-ing is done with political correctness...the height and bow is related to the importance of the person it is given to in relation to your own social standing. Giving the wrong wai can be insulting or embarrassing depending on the status of the person receiving the wai.

As for baggage...that applies to all relationships, not just Thai ones.....I took a trip to see my ex in Buriram just after I met my current wife...I believe that, that gave me the closure I needed to continue my current relationship, the what ifs were no longer around.

I have no problem with Thai culture which I respect. A few years ago I had to correct a bank employee in Australia for using the word "partner" to refer to a member of my family who had died. "Madam I replied, use the correct terminology, the person you are referring to was my mother and she was the co-signatory to the bank account" This is the type of political correctness of the English language that I despise where people are too lazy to use the correct terms when dealing with the male and female subject.To them the word sex does not exist.To them everything must appear equal and we must not "offend" certain minorities. Using correct titles is not offensive. Australian govt departments are the main offenders.