Kawasaki Ninja 250

[Travelmate]

Hi Chaps.

I've just received the Area P full carbon exhaust.

I was going to wait for Bard to return so he could help out fitting it but I'm gagging to get it on now.

Is there any descent places in Pattaya anyone could recommend that could fit this for me.

I'm tempted to have a go myself but have zero mechanical experience, though to be fair it doesn't look too difficult.

Big question: what happens to the lambda sensor when i remove the stock exhaust? There's no fitting for it on the Area P.

Cheers!

Should have specified a pipe for a lambda fitting. Since you got one without. Suggest you take the original pipe off and take it to a local metal shop and have the Area P modified to suit using the original as an example.

Alternatively unplug the lambda sensor, install Area P and ride around with the EFI light on constantly.

Or send the pipe back to original supplier and ask for the one suitable for lambda sensor in return.

[tuktukracer]

I am a spoon!

dam_n it!

Too expensive to send back so will try and get it sorted here.

I'm so angry with myself!

Tracked back through the posts and Bard did mention it but it was after I'd already ordered it.

Arrrgghhh!

Simon

Edited December 20, 2008 by tuktukracer

[dave_boo]

I am a spoon!

dam_n it!

Too expensive to send back so will try and get it sorted here.

Bard, you have yours modded for the lambda didn't you? Did they do a good job?

I'm so angry with myself!

Arrrgghhh!

Just a part of life. I've made some hasty purchases before and learned. It's not that hard to get a bung for the Lambda sensor and have them drill out the pipe and weld it on....the bung itself, not the Lambda sensor!

As a side note, has anyone managed to do a wheelie on their bike yet? Bard? I know I'm too fat to do one on a stocker, but assume that someone with less weight and an uprated system would be able to.

Anyways, I have the Corbin seat (just the front; wife can sit on the stock seat if she wants to ride otherwise I'm sticking with the cowl) coming and I'll carry it into LOS. Still considering respraying, but will purchase the front panel if inexpensive enough. The rear pillion plastic definitely needs to be bought. Also looking for a good spray shop, since either way I found these stickers off of (fl)ebay that I want sunk into a clearcoat.

Still thinking about dropping the change on an Area-P, but I don't want to be like everyone else, so perhaps a Yoshi setup would be in order. Biggest problem is that they don't (from looking at their website) offer it with the Lambda bung welded in. Of course you can save quite a bit by going with slip-ons....

[tuktukracer]

Hi Dave,

Still kicking myself here :-(

Do you know where i can order a bung or is it something someone will be able to make up for me?

Once i source the bung I will take to the shop that Bard recommended in Bang Chang to get it cut/welded. Only cost him 150 bht, so all is not lost.

Cheers, Simon

[dave_boo]

Hi Dave,

Still kicking myself here :-(

Do you know where i can order a bung or is it something someone will be able to make up for me?

Once i source the bung I will take to the shop that Bard recommended in Bang Chang to get it cut/welded. Only cost him 150 bht, so all is not lost.

Cheers, Simon

You're most likely going to find it at Bard's shop. But any old muffler shop should have them in stock.

[Bard]

Regarding the Bung, I will PM you the stuff you need to know, there is no problem to do it so don't worrie. ONLY thing you must be extremely careful with is the placement, do NOT use the stock as a template it will screw it all up.

Best thing is to pre-install it and there is a little space on the engine right where the downpipes meet where you have to place it exactly, this is the only place it will fit. The tolerance is pretty much nil so be careful with it. So pre-install the system, use a permanent marker to mark up the place it will fit (install it completely) mark out the outer limits, it has to be center at the crevice in the engine, check it with all bolts pulled tight. Then take it to the shop, I guess others will be curious where as well so when you drive to Ban Chang from Pattaya on your left side there is a hardware store (big one) not far after the Airforce guns, you see a gas station right after the gas station you'll find it. Go behind the hardware store and you'll see a mechanic shop with lathes, milling machines etc. Go inside with both headers and ask them to make a bung at the exact spot you marked out for them. Cost for me as a long time customer was 150 baht, so you should not be far off that price. I will tell my wife that you might call her, she might be able to meet you there and help you out, gives you a discount as well...

---------------------------------------------------

Wheelie Dave, I did that as soon as I got it stock does it just fine. You can't do a big bike twist and manage to get it out of that but it's all in the clutch. Start careful at say 4k and drop the clucth, then go careful up on the revs if the wheelie is not that cool after that. Also on dry clean tarmac with HOT tires it's easy to do a stoppie, two fingers squeeze carful more and more until it lifts, after some runs you can stoppie for a good distance. (as long as you can balance it) However to play with the bike like that have someone around to help you out if in trouble, do it in a controlled environment such as a track, use full safety gear and be prepared to drop the bike, frame sliders are a good thing here...

Anyways guys looks like I'm joining a group the 4th of Jan for riding on Bira, Trent plus more will be there to, and we will exercise and try to improve riding technique and improve our track time, so if anyone else wants to join holler out

Cheers Bard

[dave_boo]

Regarding the Bung, I will PM you the stuff you need to know, there is no problem to do it so don't worrie. ONLY thing you must be extremely careful with is the placement, do NOT use the stock as a template it will screw it all up.

Best thing is to pre-install it and there is a little space on the engine right where the downpipes meet where you have to place it exactly, this is the only place it will fit. The tolerance is pretty much nil so be careful with it. So pre-install the system, use a permanent marker to mark up the place it will fit (install it completely) mark out the outer limits, it has to be center at the crevice in the engine, check it with all bolts pulled tight. Then take it to the shop, I guess others will be curious where as well so when you drive to Ban Chang from Pattaya on your left side there is a hardware store (big one) not far after the Airforce guns, you see a gas station right after the gas station you'll find it. Go behind the hardware store and you'll see a mechanic shop with lathes, milling machines etc. Go inside with both headers and ask them to make a bung at the exact spot you marked out for them. Cost for me as a long time customer was 150 baht, so you should not be far off that price. I will tell my wife that you might call her, she might be able to meet you there and help you out, gives you a discount as well...

---------------------------------------------------

Wheelie Dave, I did that as soon as I got it stock does it just fine. You can't do a big bike twist and manage to get it out of that but it's all in the clutch. Start careful at say 4k and drop the clucth, then go careful up on the revs if the wheelie is not that cool after that. Also on dry clean tarmac with HOT tires it's easy to do a stoppie, two fingers squeeze carful more and more until it lifts, after some runs you can stoppie for a good distance. (as long as you can balance it) However to play with the bike like that have someone around to help you out if in trouble, do it in a controlled environment such as a track, use full safety gear and be prepared to drop the bike, frame sliders are a good thing here...

Yeah, I've been searching for those no cut frame sliders; considering what I did last time I need them. I wasn't trying to stunt or be a squid, but was just curious since I haven't really seen anything that would indicate that it would. With the kick up in the rear of the seat, it seems that all my considerable heft is on the front tyre. I'm assuming that's why it feels like it does. On my CBR 150 I can slide far enough back to even wheelie from a stop!

The stoppie thing has me concerned; the brakes are more than adequate for that but my tyres are no where near that level. From the Iron Butt ride you know what I'm talking about. And after I was able to get back on the bike I found that it was as easy to 'chirp' the front tyre as it is on my CBR 150's rear! Don't know if I'm being overly heavy on the brakes or what.....

Anyways guys looks like I'm joining a group the 4th of Jan for riding on Bira, Trent plus more will be there to, and we will exercise and try to improve riding technique and improve our track time, so if anyone else wants to join holler out

Cheers Bard

[Bard]

The wheelie from stop is easy just clutch it right and it jumps high even sitting in a normal position. Wheelie in 1st and 2nd is also doable but they won't be that impressive. When I tried a drag start leaning all I could over the steering to keep maximum weight up front it jumped to a wheelie even though I tried my best to minimize it.

As you also found the stock tires are not really good for this stuff so an upgrade is pretty essential if you want to play in the more limits of things.

Cheers Bard

[tuktukracer]

Hi Bard.

PM Sent.

Thanks again for all your help !

[LivinLOS]

As a side note, has anyone managed to do a wheelie on their bike yet? Bard? I know I'm too fat to do one on a stocker, but assume that someone with less weight and an uprated system would be able to.

I cant wheelie a roadie for toffee, tho I used to be able to tear along at the balance point on a crosser for distance in the dirt.. But its never all about the power / weight.. I have seen harleys, goldwings, all manner of unlikelies hoist the front for distances.. Even seen Thai kids right up at the balance on waves and other foot clutch stuff stuff..

Bounce the weight and clutch the bitch up.. That is if your OK with trashing fork seals, chains, and the likely hood of dropping it (often) while learning.

Lets face it, if they can stunt those KSR's, and fiddy stunting, its all balance not power.

[BigBikeBKK]

As a side note, has anyone managed to do a wheelie on their bike yet? Bard? I know I'm too fat to do one on a stocker, but assume that someone with less weight and an uprated system would be able to.

I cant wheelie a roadie for toffee, tho I used to be able to tear along at the balance point on a crosser for distance in the dirt.. But its never all about the power / weight.. I have seen harleys, goldwings, all manner of unlikelies hoist the front for distances.. Even seen Thai kids right up at the balance on waves and other foot clutch stuff stuff..

Bounce the weight and clutch the bitch up.. That is if your OK with trashing fork seals, chains, and the likely hood of dropping it (often) while learning.

Lets face it, if they can stunt those KSR's, and fiddy stunting, its all balance not power.

Well said- I'm thinking to get a cheap little KSR to use as a stunt bike. Perfect for tossing around and when you drop them the damage is minor and inexpensive. Stunting on road bikes looks cool, but the learning curve is steeper and the crashes are costly and often painful. Dave- why don't you get a cheap used bike to use for stunting and save your little Ninja from further abuse?

[LivinLOS]

I thought a similar thing.. Little KSR to just chuck about and be daft on, basically to fall off of.. But then I sat on one and realised how dumb I looked.. Wasnt just a pit bike, looked more like a pocketbike !! Hmmm, thinking that, I wonder what big bores are available on the Sachs Madass now ??

I have to admit tho, I love the rough and ready. 'abuse me' look of messed with stunt bikes.. The crash cage, dinged up look !!

Edited December 20, 2008 by LivinLOS

[gregchambers]

Actually, the KSR has the same seat height as most step=thrus so it is not that small, just looks it. If they put seventeen inch wheels in it and altered the frame a bit to keep the engine down low, it could be an interesting little motorcycle.

[dave_boo]

For those concerned;

I'm not condoning nor asking for advice on how to be an idiot on a Ninja 250. I was merely concerned as to whether my bike was underpowered or I was simply a lard-ass.

I'm inclined to believe that it's the latter. There's been several instances of bottoming the forks out (would like to find a fix for that) that were quite an eye opener.

[Bard]

Oho what's your BMI Dave sounds like you're really big to bottom out the forks

Hey Tony, are you in for the track day at Bira with me and Trent and the others? Would be good with more joining, it's the best place to improve riding skills...

Stunt bike, well you can find 2nd hand Sonic 125 cheap they're very fun to trash around.

Cheers Bard

[BigBikeBKK]

Hey Tony, are you in for the track day at Bira with me and Trent and the others? Would be good with more joining, it's the best place to improve riding skills...

Ah Bard, thank you for the invite but seems our schedules are always opposite. I would love to join you for a track day at Bira but I'm in Brussels at the moment and won't return to Thailand until late January... Have fun and look forward to riding with you one of these days!

[BigBikeBKK]

I was merely concerned as to whether my bike was underpowered or I was simply a lard-ass.

I'm inclined to believe that it's the latter. There's been several instances of bottoming the forks out (would like to find a fix for that) that were quite an eye opener.

Wow Dave, I mean, I know you're a big guy, but bottoming out the forks?! What do you weigh if I might ask? I'm about 75Kg and even when I come down hard on wheelies I've never bottomed out the forks on my Ninja... As far as "underpowered", well, the 250R only cranks out about 33Hp in stock form, but that's still quite a bit more than your CBR150. I personally find that the Ninja 250R only comes alive above 8000RPM. Below that it's quite 'tame'. It still trips me out that a 250cc machine with only 33Hp can go nearly 170km/hr.

[LivinLOS]

Actually, the KSR has the same seat height as most step=thrus so it is not that small, just looks it. If they put seventeen inch wheels in it and altered the frame a bit to keep the engine down low, it could be an interesting little motorcycle.

It might have the same seat hieght but at over 6 3 and almost 110kg.. Well lets say I do swamp one !! I agree tho that if they upped its size by 10 - 15%, sold it for 80k or less, there would be one downstairs as a toy bike.

Stunt bike, well you can find 2nd hand Sonic 125 cheap they're very fun to trash around.

Cheers Bard

You see a lot of Thai lads on home made dirt bike setups out at the weekends.. Looks like a sonic frame, usually with clutch set, sometimes 2 stroke (nova ??) with knobblies and a jack up.. Looking at the setups I reckon these are 10k rat bikes and to be honest look a laugh, as the sonic etc has so many hot rod bits getting a bit of pop out of them should be easy enough and as a trail nail to hammer about for beer money, that also has a legit plate to pass cops, well I can see the appeal.

Edited December 21, 2008 by LivinLOS

[dave_boo]

Oho what's your BMI Dave sounds like you're really big to bottom out the forks

Hey Tony, are you in for the track day at Bira with me and Trent and the others? Would be good with more joining, it's the best place to improve riding skills...

Stunt bike, well you can find 2nd hand Sonic 125 cheap they're very fun to trash around.

Cheers Bard

You've seen my pic, but I'm over 100kg. Quite the porker I'm afraid....

Won't be able to make the track day, or Iron Butt III since I won't be back in town till the end of Feb.

Wow Dave, I mean, I know you're a big guy, but bottoming out the forks?! What do you weigh if I might ask? I'm about 75Kg and even when I come down hard on wheelies I've never bottomed out the forks on my Ninja... As far as "underpowered", well, the 250R only cranks out about 33Hp in stock form, but that's still quite a bit more than your CBR150. I personally find that the Ninja 250R only comes alive above 8000RPM. Below that it's quite 'tame'. It still trips me out that a 250cc machine with only 33Hp can go nearly 170km/hr.

See above for weight. You've seen how gnarly the roads our roads are and my utter disregard for personal safety so you can do the math. Still no suggestions forthcoming from the forum concerning correcting the problem (although I could just lose some weight!).

It's quite a bit better than the CBR 150R once it does get above the magic RPM, but I've never tried to launch it at that point. And per my GPS, the fastest I've ever seen was 144 (and at 10%+ that the speedo reads it would be 158 indicated), might have been room for more but I crested a hill and there was a tak-tak that I had to brake for. I need to get both my bikes strapped on a dyno and compare their torque curves. Wonder what they'd look like.

It might have the same seat hieght but at over 6 3 and almost 110kg.. Well lets say I do swamp one !! I agree tho that if they upped its size by 10 - 15%, sold it for 80k or less, there would be one downstairs as a toy bike.

Thank you for that vindication! Size wise I think it's perfect, of course I'm not your height. I've always prefered the smaller bikes also.

You see a lot of Thai lads on home made dirt bike setups out at the weekends.. Looks like a sonic frame, usually with clutch set, sometimes 2 stroke (nova ??) with knobblies and a jack up.. Looking at the setups I reckon these are 10k rat bikes and to be honest look a laugh, as the sonic etc has so many hot rod bits getting a bit of pop out of them should be easy enough and as a trail nail to hammer about for beer money, that also has a legit plate to pass cops, well I can see the appeal.

Those are fairly popular over in Nakhon Sawan but you see as many or more without their plates as you do with. I've also seen them stunting with Mios, so it's obviously not about power, but then again I was wondering if there was something wrong with my bike or with my weight. Obviously from the replies the problem lies on my end.

[Bard]

To bad you guys can't join Bira, here is a VDO with my mate in a car race there (Jack Lemvard), should give an idea of the track etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvedz3xxr_w

Let's meet up when you come home Tony, me and Trent with some of his buds might ride to Isaan and Cambodia, <deleted> are you doing in Europe now? It's the worst time you can go there, it's just gray sloppy cold and dark you couldn't choose a worse time, that's why they came up with Christmas so people had some joy in that horrible time and place.

Late Jan how late? I leave the 31st for the dark continent for four weeks again...

When are you back Dave Feb, sounds like it will clash for me again...

Cheers Bard

[beammeup]

Well everyone needs something to make the day go by thrust me I've worked in bloody Nigeria and that would be a great thing to plan ahead to get home.

Also if you're in another place than the big mango, you can buy one in Mitoyont Pattaya, they've got test bikes which you can take out for a spin as well, plus very helpful and friendly service.

Cheers Bard

Thanks Bard and BBB, Exactly I'd like to have a look at one in BKK on my way home from work. Dave_boo your all heart!!

[dave_boo]

Well everyone needs something to make the day go by thrust me I've worked in bloody Nigeria and that would be a great thing to plan ahead to get home.

Also if you're in another place than the big mango, you can buy one in Mitoyont Pattaya, they've got test bikes which you can take out for a spin as well, plus very helpful and friendly service.

Cheers Bard

Thanks Bard and BBB, Exactly I'd like to have a look at one in BKK on my way home from work. Dave_boo your all heart!!

What heart?!?!?

Why you trying to put out that I'm anything but "annoying all the time"?

[Bard]

Bira run is the 4th of Jan for anyone who want in, open from 08:00 to 12:00

Group for the moment looks like 6 or more guys, no chicks dammit. 3 off 250's and larger bikes, will be a bash in Pattaya afterward for some adult fun

[LivinLOS]

Just a heads up, great letter of the month in BIKE jan issue praising the 250 and questioning the 'must move to superbike' upgrade path..

Bro just brought a stack of 'bike' and performance car mags over.. some really desirable items in there !!!

[dave_boo]

Just a heads up, great letter of the month in BIKE jan issue praising the 250 and questioning the 'must move to superbike' upgrade path..

Bro just brought a stack of 'bike' and performance car mags over.. some really desirable items in there !!!

The 250 Ninja has gotten a lot of rave reviews. People in the west, especially America, realise that for the best bang for buck ear to ear grin factor you can't beat them compared to the models offered. I also once read an article that states that you can actually find an inverse relationship between the number of Ninjettes and the price of petrol. I.E., the more expensive the petrol the more 250s running around and the cheaper the petrol the fewer you'll see.

[Bard]

The Ninja 250 is in Europe by the way a medium class bike and a perfect learners bike. You ride it typically for 2 years gaining experience and confidence, then move up to something more dramatic. It is a very smart move since it's very controllable compared to say a literbike and a great way to learn and get good riding habits.

I love mine and find it to have a big fun factor, I will probably after convincing my wife I am sensible with it for a while go for a Yamaha FZ 6 or something similar. I am currently training my wife to run the Ninja and since she never rode a bike with this power before it intimidates her a lot still, so it probably is the place to begin until you can master a bike properly.

Cheers Bard

[LivinLOS]

People in the west, especially America, realise that for the best bang for buck ear to ear grin factor you can't beat them compared to the models offered.

While I agree with the sentiment.. Back in the west the price factor is much less bang for buck.. Here where they are 1/2 or even 1/3rd any other kind of fastish new machine then sure.. But back home you can pick up something fast and rough for 1000 pounds, you can pick up something kinda nice for 2000, its much harder to claim the bang for buck aspect there when theres so much on the used markets.

[dotcom]

Dave Boo. Get a mechanic to add a cap full of oil to each front shock tube.

Repeat as necessary till they won't bottom any more.

[dave_boo]

People in the west, especially America, realise that for the best bang for buck ear to ear grin factor you can't beat them compared to the models offered.

While I agree with the sentiment.. Back in the west the price factor is much less bang for buck.. Here where they are 1/2 or even 1/3rd any other kind of fastish new machine then sure.. But back home you can pick up something fast and rough for 1000 pounds, you can pick up something kinda nice for 2000, its much harder to claim the bang for buck aspect there when theres so much on the used markets.

Sure, you could compare the Ninja in the West to used bikes; why not do that here. You can pick up a decent 400 and have to do the papers for it and still come out at or less than double the price of the Ninjette.

If you compare the prices of a new bike in the States (sorry that's where I'm from and thus have to base my comparo upon) you'll see that even for a 'base' 600 you're looking at 1/2 price. Move up to a real screamer of a 600, say a CBR 600RR and you're looking at the Ninja being 2/5 the price. Start looking at litre bikes or the such and you get down in to the 1/3 rate that you're talking about.

So yes, comparing a used bike that won't have a warranty and will have been trashed to hel_l against a brand new Ninja and the value isn't there. But comparing apples to apples I believe that in the West the 250 Ninja is a great value.

[LivinLOS]

People in the west, especially America, realise that for the best bang for buck ear to ear grin factor you can't beat them compared to the models offered.

While I agree with the sentiment.. Back in the west the price factor is much less bang for buck.. Here where they are 1/2 or even 1/3rd any other kind of fastish new machine then sure.. But back home you can pick up something fast and rough for 1000 pounds, you can pick up something kinda nice for 2000, its much harder to claim the bang for buck aspect there when theres so much on the used markets.

Sure, you could compare the Ninja in the West to used bikes; why not do that here. You can pick up a decent 400 and have to do the papers for it and still come out at or less than double the price of the Ninjette.

If you compare the prices of a new bike in the States (sorry that's where I'm from and thus have to base my comparo upon) you'll see that even for a 'base' 600 you're looking at 1/2 price. Move up to a real screamer of a 600, say a CBR 600RR and you're looking at the Ninja being 2/5 the price. Start looking at litre bikes or the such and you get down in to the 1/3 rate that you're talking about.

So yes, comparing a used bike that won't have a warranty and will have been trashed to hel_l against a brand new Ninja and the value isn't there. But comparing apples to apples I believe that in the West the 250 Ninja is a great value.

Sure but your also claiming ear to ear grin factor (and conveniently missing out the much lower rate of depreciation on second hand bikes)..

Bang for buck is exactly that, in the west you dont NEED to buy new, bikes get (mostly) well maintained, theres a massive market to choose from to find a gem, parts are readily available, dealer networks and service is easy for almost any bike. So comparing a new ninja (what 3000 GBP ??) for bang for buck v a hornet 600 at maybe 1500 quid ?? Or a hooligan bike 1200 bandit at a hair more ?? Or a nice 900 monster at 2000 ?? Or or or.. All of those will probably not depreciate much at all if well looked after, and provide FAR more bang for buck. iven the choice between a low mile couple of year old 600 with FSH or a new Ninja 250, theres no way I would be looking at the ninja (as much fun as it is, not trying to knock the bike at all, just the lack of competition).

The need to buy new is something that much more apparent here, where parts are a nightmare, where bikes get 'thai serviced', where there so little to choose from second hand, its here not the west were buying new becomes more appealing its a Thailand issue not a western one, thats what was my point.