I Want To Witness Son's Birth

[Tony Clifton]

We've asked the doc if it was ok for me to be there when our son is born in 2 or 3 weeks from now. The doc said no and went on joking I'd be too heavy for small nurses to pick up if I was to faint. Another hospital has also refused...

He's asked her 4 or 5 times by now if she wants a natural delivery or cesarean, natural is her choice every time.

Is it me or he may want to lighten up his schedule and proceed with a cesarean anyway?

I witnessed my aunt giving birth in a Canadian hospital some 30 years ago, it's not accepted here or what?

We're willing to change hospital AND doctor, smooth pregnancy with no complications whatsoever so far.

Edited December 17, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[Khutan]

What Hospital is this ?

[bina]

do a search for all that, tony, as its been discussed in Ladies forum also...several times

from what i remember from people posting, thai ladies like c sections and the docs like them even more, but some people found hospitals that allowed them to do natural with father present...

cant remember who gave birth recently in thailand... try the search in health, also..

bina.

[JUDAS]

Tony Clifton. My wife's doctor actually invited me to witness the birth of our daughter months before the event and before I asked. If my memory serves me correctly a c-section was not mentioned unless of medical necessity. Long story but I actually missed the birth by a few minutes but I think we would have changed docs if I was told I couldn't be there. Good luck

[Tony Clifton]

It's either Chonburi's govt. hospital or Aikochol (Aykahchon).

The doc is head of department at the govt. hospital.

Just talked about it with my wife again. She thinks he only denied making a movie. Never said I wanted to make a movie of the labor, I want to take a few quick pics of him seconds after he's born using a digital video camera.

We're seeing him again on Thursday, let's see what he says this time.

[torrenova]

My daughter was born in Pattaya International Hospital in July and we eventually had to have a caesarian due to overterm, lack of dilation and baby size. They knew I wanted to be there and though I think they would have preferred I wasn't, I witnessed the whole thing from the beginning.

I was adjacent to her head and held her hand, both of which are taped down. She went under general anesthetic, struggled for a bit and then she was out. They cut her and then proceeded to take all these "bits" out. Eventually after a struggle the baby came out. She cried immediately, they took her under a heat lamp, cleaned her and wrapped her up. They then gave her to me.

I held her for a while then gave her back to the nurse. They patched the mother up and she went off to the recovery room. I joined her there after a while. The baby was taken to the new born section where she was the sole charge of about 4 nurses. An hour or two later we were all united in our room.

I did feel that if I had not kept on at them on the day they would have "forgot" or not come to collect me. therefore, insist all the way. If they do not agree beforehand, get out and find another place.

[nidge]

I was told by my doc that i could not be there with my wife also. On the day she was admitted into hospital i cornered the doc and insisted i was allowed. He became flustered and apologised saying it was company policy (hospital), that i was not allowed. I could go to the private hospital but it was really expensive. I immediately booked into the local private hospital and was there with my wife throughout. The cost was around 22000 baht all in, (the doc seemed to think that was too expensive).

If he would have told me the first time i asked that i would have to go to the private hospital it would have saved a lot of worrying.

[maccaroni man]

We had the same problem/surprise with my second child, the first child I was invited to watch so we assumed that i would be welcome with the second child (different doctor) so we were shocked when it was time to give birth the doctor said No. Of course I protested and later after the operation was under way I was invited in but i must say the whole affair left a very bitter taste in the doctors and my relationship. My wife told me later that it is up to each doctor.

[MsFigure]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

[nidge]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

Being there to watch my son being born was the most significant moment of my life. It changed me in ways i never imagined. If a guy chose not to go into the delivery room is fine but for his wife to disallow it would be, (IMO), the most heartless thing they could do.

[YangYaiEric]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

Being there to watch my son being born was the most significant moment of my life. It changed me in ways i never imagined. If a guy chose not to go into the delivery room is fine but for his wife to disallow it would be, (IMO), the most heartless thing they could do.

Agree with you, there!

Why would the mother NOT want her husband to witness the birth of their child? When my first daughter was born, I was with my wife for 10 hours during labour! But, she did insist on me sitting directly next to her (face-to-face), and NOT see what was going on 'downstairs' . I guess some women are shy when it comes to that sort of thing?

[sibeymai]

Was waiting outside and the nurses came and brought me in to the delivery room. My wife was the only patient in the room at the time. I suspect if there had been other women in the room giving birth I would not have been invited as the room was not set up with privacy screens. Perhaps this is the reason you're not allowed.

[onethailand]

I had the video camera in for my first daughter's birth - and I witnessed my other two children's birth as well.

Had they not allowed this, we would have switched hospitals immediately, no questions about it. I don't think it is fair for them to deprive the father of this special moment.

[markwhite]

Is it me or he may want to lighten up his schedule and proceed with a cesarean anyway?

I attended the birth of our son with no problems. There was also a time when my wife was...er...rather keen on having a cesarean but the doctor encouraged her not to, without telling her she could not.

If you're paying for the birth, I can't see why you should not get what you want. Within reason of course.

[pete_r]

The doc said no and went on joking I'd be too heavy for small nurses to pick up if I was to faint. Another hospital has also refused...

I've heard the same stereotype that many Thai fathers faint when they attend to the delivery. Ergo, fathers shouldn't be encouraged to attend, as they may cause unnecessary trouble.

That said, it depends a lot on the doctor, one I know sees the presence of the father as useful to create a stronger bond between the father, the baby and the mother.

Private hospitals may also be more flexible than public hospitals for accepting the father in the delivery room, I guess because of better financial means (more staff available) and more private rooms.

All the best for this big event Tony,

[kat]

Tony, there is at least one excellent natural child birthing center in SEA with excellent midwives, but I've forgotten the name. I can try to track it down if you like.

Natural childbirth is an incredibly painful, violent and humiliating experience for a lot of women in conventional medical set ups (on her back, strapped into stirrups). It is almost comical in the most pathetic way that some men would still turn childbirth into THEIR suffering and deprivation if the mother choses not to have him in the room, rather than support her for what she will need in the most primal and painful event of her life. I am a feminist, and always thought that I would want the father in the room with me, but now I think there may have been a reason why men waited it out in the waiting room. The following threads are instructive, and may help you understand why some women may not want ANYONE there except medical personnel.

http://www.poopreport.com/Techniques/Conte...abor/labor.html

http://www.squidoo.com/husband-in-delivery-room

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ViewArti...ticleid=2785801

[swain]

My wife had a C-section at Ram hospital in Chiang Mai. They wanted to keep me out as well... even tried to trick me into saying you can come in but only when we are ready to start... but they started with out me... and I just went in.. they surgically gowned me .. hair net... gloves and mask.. but I got in and took pictures and video. They were afraid i would pass out because of the blood but when they saw I was not going to be a problem it was a non issue. My wife was very afraid and wanted me to say up at her head and talk her through it. so I didn't get as many pictures or video as I wanted. But it was a special experience and one you should not miss out on.

[Totster]

It is almost comical in the most pathetic way that some men would still turn childbirth into THEIR suffering and deprivation if the mother choses not to have him in the room, rather than support her for what she will need in the most primal and painful event of her life.

Kat, most of your views I am happy to accept even if I don't agree with them.. but the comment above is rather harsh and uncalled for.

I think most men would accept their wifes decision if she expressed the wish that the husband not be present, and support her throughout, but that doesn't mean he will not feel disappointed and maybe quite sad that he could not witness one of natures most remarkable events, that being the birth of a person of who's creation he has been a part of.

Just try and see the grass on both sides of the fence..

totster

[nidge]

It is almost comical in the most pathetic way that some men would still turn childbirth into THEIR suffering and deprivation if the mother choses not to have him in the room, rather than support her for what she will need in the most primal and painful event of her life.

Kat, most of your views I am happy to accept even if I don't agree with them.. but the comment above is rather harsh and uncalled for.

I think most men would accept their wifes decision if she expressed the wish that the husband not be present, and support her throughout, but that doesn't mean he will not feel disappointed and maybe quite sad that he could not witness one of natures most remarkable events, that being the birth of a person of who's creation he has been a part of.

Just try and see the grass on both sides of the fence..

totster

I'm with you there Totster.

My wife desperately wanted me to be with her as she gave birth. She was scared, she knew it was going to be extremely painful and needed me to support her through the ordeal. I don't recall and of the above posts mentioning the mans suffering or deprivation. It was extremely moving and humbling for me to be there because i got to see the pain and effort my wife went through to give birth. It made me very proud of her and i am honoured to be her husband. when we have another child i will again be there there to help her through labour and birth.

[MsFigure]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

Being there to watch my son being born was the most significant moment of my life. It changed me in ways i never imagined. If a guy chose not to go into the delivery room is fine but for his wife to disallow it would be, (IMO), the most heartless thing they could do.

Agree with you, there!

Why would the mother NOT want her husband to witness the birth of their child? When my first daughter was born, I was with my wife for 10 hours during labour! But, she did insist on me sitting directly next to her (face-to-face), and NOT see what was going on 'downstairs' . I guess some women are shy when it comes to that sort of thing?

I'm not the only woman who would not want their husbands/partners to witness a natural birth. We both watched birthing videos and we both decided that natural WAS NOT the way to go. Many people may find the whole natural birthing a beautiful thing, but for us - there is nothing natural or beautiful about all the pain, agony and stress of pushing out something the size of a watermelon out of a much smaller opening.... and the risk of my husband getting flashbacks during "time together" was also another reason for me to opt for a c-section. My husband was there to witness the doctor perform the c-section and seeing our daughter for the first time, and for both of us it was perfect way for our daughter to be born.

I absolutely loved being pregnant and my pregnancy was unbelievably easy (no morning sickness or other usual complications/complaints) and I wanted the delivery to be a just as wonderful experience. IMO, until men are physically capable of pregnancy and giving birth - it should the womans choice on what sort of delivery and if she wants witnesses present during the birth or NOT.

[onethailand]

I think some of you have missed the point.

It's one thing for the wife/mother to ask her husband to wait outside.

It's another thing entirely for the doctor to take this decision against the expressed wishes of father or mother.

[kat]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

Being there to watch my son being born was the most significant moment of my life. It changed me in ways i never imagined. If a guy chose not to go into the delivery room is fine but for his wife to disallow it would be, (IMO), the most heartless thing they could do.

It is almost comical in the most pathetic way that some men would still turn childbirth into THEIR suffering and deprivation if the mother choses not to have him in the room, rather than support her for what she will need in the most primal and painful event of her life.

Kat, most of your views I am happy to accept even if I don't agree with them.. but the comment above is rather harsh and uncalled for.

I think most men would accept their wifes decision if she expressed the wish that the husband not be present, and support her throughout, but that doesn't mean he will not feel disappointed and maybe quite sad that he could not witness one of natures most remarkable events, that being the birth of a person of who's creation he has been a part of.

Just try and see the grass on both sides of the fence..

totster

Well, I don't really expect you to understand me and I don't really care about your approval because we are on complete opposite ends of what we value and respect. I tried not to specify a post, but since most around here seem to be blind to comments that are judgmental or demeaning from the "male viewpoint in Thailand" here I don't expect much.

I think it is a wonderful thing that men want to be there for the birth of their babies, and hold their wife's hand, and witness the suffering that she has to go through to bring life forth in the world. That is a wonderfully supportive role, and I completely understand Nidge's comments in his last post (not the one quoted above in this post) about watching the sacrifice his wife went through and supporting her. But, you should remember, it is the woman who will have to deal with a variety of scary and complex issues all at once in natural childbirth at a hospital, to being spread wide open, to the fear of unimaginable pain and maybe death, to the most disgusting body fluids of her life spread out for all to see, defecating, and having to worry if her man is going to be turned off on top of everything. Most people are clueless about the experience of natural childbirth, and I suspect with the high number of caesarean (sp) births in Thailand, many doctors and medical teams may not be welcoming of it or prepared, for more than just medical reasons. An experience at a natural birthing center with a mid-wife may be different, but there is the potential of possible emergencies.

So please, don't start turning childbirth into a judgment value about women being "heartless" and mean to men regarding her decision about what will be the scariest and in some cases most painful and humiliating aspects of her life in natural childbirth. Your job is to support her, and that may take different forms depending on HER needs at the time, which should be primary.

In your opinion, my comments are a bit much, and in mine, that sentiment is a bit much, so be it. Let's move on to actual information and discussion.

I'm sure health professionals in Thailand can enlighten us even more about the medical decisions regarding natural vs. caesarian (sp) in Thailand, but I also know that childbirth is imbued with all kinds of cultural meaning like every other significant event in life. These are questions, but you have to wonder: are women discouraged from natural childbirth in Thailand because of a combination of squeamishness about "being clean" - especially since women are considered "polluted" even in the best of times - and the complete abandonment and primal nature of women in natural childbirth? Natural childbirths are less predictable and messy and loud, so are cesarian births a lot less work for them, and much less "dirty"?

[mikethevigoman]

We've asked the doc if it was ok for me to be there when our son is born in 2 or 3 weeks from now. The doc said no and went on joking I'd be too heavy for small nurses to pick up if I was to faint. Another hospital has also refused...

He's asked her 4 or 5 times by now if she wants a natural delivery or cesarean, natural is her choice every time.

Is it me or he may want to lighten up his schedule and proceed with a cesarean anyway?

I witnessed my aunt giving birth in a Canadian hospital some 30 years ago, it's not accepted here or what?

We're willing to change hospital AND doctor, smooth pregnancy with no complications whatsoever so far.

Are you serious ? i was in the bkk pattaya and witnessed the birth of our beautiful daughter debbie, i would nt have missed it for the world, i cried, go somewhere else,.the doctors here can be money orientated ,when he examined my wife he said ill come back in 30 minutes and perform a caeseran, 10 minutes later she was having a natural birth,. go somewhere else for the birth, enjoy Edited December 18, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[kat]

One other question: For natural childbirth in Thailand, is the mother and father-to-be taking birthing classes to prepare them for natural birth?

[onethailand]

... to the most disgusting body fluids of her life spread out for all to see, defecating, and having to worry if her man is going to be turned off on top of everything.

I hope you don't mind if I opine that this is probably the LAST thing on the soon-to-be mom's mind. My wife's mind was on having a healthy baby, as I'm sure most other women's minds are. That and getting past the pain, though in our case it ended up going C-section after 12 hours and not enough dilation.

For that matter, it is probably the last thing on the soon-to-be dad's mind as well - please... give us a little credit.

I'm all for women having their say - but in this case I absolutely cannot agree. If the wife wanted me out, I would've stayed out, as disappointing as that would have been - but I absolutely do not support any such request made by a doctor unless there are obvious complications.

Edited December 18, 2007 by onethailand

[kat]

I'm sure it is the last thing on her mind during childbirth. But, there have been issues with men AFTER childbirth; I posted a wealth of links above. One link leads you to many articles discussing it. I do give men a lot of credit who are supportive of their partners during birth and after, when it will really count.

As for respecting the wishes of the mother over the medical personnel, we do agree. That was never my point in the first place. My point is regarding the "rights" to childbirth, and that the woman's needs regardless of what they may be are primary over the wishes of the man *(in response to how "heartless" that decision would be).

*edit

Edited December 18, 2007 by kat

[kat]

Tony:

I agree with you in terms of it being the parents' choice over the medical staff. However, I think there might be concerns in Thailand if you deviate from their "norm" of ceasarian births. I think for your own security and the reasons discussed above you should try to choose an alternative hospital very carefully.

That's just my few cents.

[Tony Clifton]

Tony, there is at least one excellent natural child birthing center in SEA with excellent midwives, but I've forgotten the name. I can try to track it down if you like.

Natural childbirth is an incredibly painful, violent and humiliating experience for a lot of women in conventional medical set ups (on her back, strapped into stirrups). It is almost comical in the most pathetic way that some men would still turn childbirth into THEIR suffering and deprivation if the mother choses not to have him in the room, rather than support her for what she will need in the most primal and painful event of her life. I am a feminist, and always thought that I would want the father in the room with me, but now I think there may have been a reason why men waited it out in the waiting room. The following threads are instructive, and may help you understand why some women may not want ANYONE there except medical personnel.

http://www.poopreport.com/Techniques/Conte...abor/labor.html

http://www.squidoo.com/husband-in-delivery-room

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/ViewArti...ticleid=2785801

Very interesting links!

I had quite a few tearful laughs reading the first one about pooping and gas but never had really thought about the humiliating part of childbirth. Well worth a read, same goes for the other two links, there are some serious questions and consequences to think about before walking in.

I feel I should be there for her that day, just like she did when I spent a few weeks in the hospital a couple of years ago. She wants me there, I wouldn't impose my presence if she changed her mind later on and thought I should wait outside, so be it. The moment belongs so much more to the mother than does to the father.

As the birth gets closer, she now admits being more and more afraid of the pain and is seriously considering a c-section. If it involves less pain then and afterwards, I am all for it but I am concerned about medication prescribed during and following the surgery and it's effects on the baby while still in the womb and through breastfeeding afterwards. I think the epidural doesn't affect the baby, any sedatives or other drugs administered? Same goes for the mother, which heals faster and has less chance of complications? C-section or natural?

Great participation!

Thanks all!

Edited December 18, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[kat]

Thanks Tony. I wish you and the mom-to-be all the best. You are right to start asking these questions now, and to prepare yourself for everything. I would say the best bet is to ask others who have been through it. Since natural childbirth is somewhat rare in LOS, Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth.

As far as I know, there can be complications to epidurals (sp) as well. I think it is best to talk to a medical profession about comparative medical procedures. You should PM Sheryl. I'm sure she will have good advice about the procedures, and possible good places to go.

Good luck, Tony and the Mrs. Clifton.

Have a great birth!

[onethailand]

I haven't been to the sites you linked - for the simple reason that I have no desire to see events unrelated to my own wife. I understand that there is some potential for embarrassment but I suspect these sites do nothing more than increase any potential hysteria - what they instead should be doing is explaining why the mom-to-be should *ignore* these things in favor of allowing the father to participate in a special event. What they have done is turned a beautiful event into a disaster beyond comprehension.

Am I correct?

Tony - my wife and I also wanted a natural birth - but 12 hours with not enough dilation after her water broke essentially made the decision for us. I do not believe that natural childbirth is so rare - after all, I highly doubt most people upcountry would pay more if it was unnecessary. I am sure Kat has the right intent and wants you to be aware of your options, but while C-section may be more common in Thailand than in other countries, it is not correct to say that C-section is the norm or that natural childbirth is rare.

All three of ours were C-section (under the concept of "once a caesarian, always a caesarian") - no complications at any time, with epidural blocks and anesthesia. I do believe it is wise to consult your attending obstetrician under all circumstances, however, as he will have a better understanding of any specific circumstances of your wife as well.

Whatever you choose will not affect breastfeeding.

C-section may take a week in hospital, but I have heard of cases where this was only 3 days. And C-section also faces the same potential complications as any surgery.

Natural childbirth can be a few days but just overnight isn't uncommon.

Good luck to you, the Mrs, and the new addition to the family!