I Want To Witness Son's Birth

[kat]

No, you are not correct. The first one is a thread in the *OWN WORDS of most importantly WOMEN, and men, who have witnessed natural childbirth, the second is a thread from a full range of perspectives of whether to witness or not, including the words of men as well as women with ample comment fields for both, and the third is an article questioning whether it is good or not for fathers to be in the delivery room. They are in no way painting anything as a disaster, unless you are one who views honest talk about women's experiences by women as a disaster. Contrary to your erroneous bias, the information provided is very balanced and there is overwhelming support for significant others to witness birth.

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand - as I can't really comment on that at this point - but I do know that caesarean deliveries are pushed overwhelmingly in Thailand and requested, and is rising rapidly. *I think the rapid rise of caesarean births are a factor in many places, and it would be interesting to study how the decisions for caesarean births are made in Thailand and why.

*edit

Edited December 18, 2007 by kat

[nidge]

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand - as I can't really comment on that at this point - but I do know that caesarean deliveries are pushed overwhelmingly in Thailand and requested.

We were very lucky with our doctor. He explained to us the complications of caesarean deliveries and urged my wife to opt for a natural delivery unless it was absolutely necessary. I have heard too many times, (not just in Thailand), where the doctor insists on surgery even against the mothers wishes.

[kat]

Well, that's interesting that you were encouraged. I have heard the same thing you have, Nidge, so it is good to hear about your experiences. Maybe you should recommend your doctor and hospital to TC.

This whole topic is worthy of further study, because I think there is a lot going on.

Edited December 18, 2007 by kat

[nidge]

I would recommend my hospital to anybody, but it is too far from "civilisation" for most people, (Chaiyaphum). I see few farangs where i live and most are well past their reproductive prime.

[torrenova]

It seems that years ago we men were being slagged off for being down the pub when the baby was born and now we want to get involved, the feminazi want to shift the goalposts and opt us out of the process saying that they are worried we won't like them later or that there may be some strange liquids floating around. C'mon, we're not that weak. We have some education and if you think we haven't seen "down there" before, then how did we make the baby ?

We can find this forum so we can presumably find thousands of videos and pictures of childbirth on the net.

I've heard these stories about guys feeling that they cannot see their wives as sexual partners in the future but my two penneth is that these weak excuses for men are the ones who did not wqant to be there but went through it because of an overbearing demand from the mother to be. Guys who actually want to be there are unlikely to worry about a bit of piss here or shit there. I know I wasn't and am not.

[LaoPo]

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand - as I can't really comment on that at this point - but I do know that caesarean deliveries are pushed overwhelmingly in Thailand and requested, and is rising rapidly. *I think the rapid rise of caesarean births are a factor in many places, and it would be interesting to study how the decisions for caesarean births are made in Thailand and why.

*edit

you said/wrote that less than 2 hours before this post with your words in post #29:

"Since natural childbirth is somewhat rare in LOS, Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth."

You forgot within 2 hours what you wrote before.....?

LaoPo

[Tony Clifton]

Another day scratched on the calendar. Can't wait to see what the little guy will look like.

Following a discussion about the growth of Thai population in another thread, I've recently asked our doctor if he thought or knew if it was on the rise or declining. As head of the department, he's well aware of the number of births in Chonburi's govt. hospital (between 350 to over 500 a month) and the numbers are on a steady climb ( he mentioned not including immigrant workers).

That may very well be the reason c-sections are so popular when some hospitals have to deal with an average of 15 women lining up for labor every day. Natural birth must be very time consuming regarding staff and resources.

[jumnien]

I was in the room at BNH when my son was born by C-section 2.5 years ago. Very interesting indeed! But I'm sure that one day, month, year after the birth you won't be concerned with whether you were there or not. I wouldn't have been too upset if I were made to sit at Au Bon Pain and sip lattes and eat warm pastries until after the birthing was completed.

[onethailand]

No, you are not correct. The first one is a thread in the *OWN WORDS of most importantly WOMEN, and men, who have witnessed natural childbirth, the second is a thread from a full range of perspectives of whether to witness or not, including the words of men as well as women with ample comment fields for both, and the third is an article questioning whether it is good or not for fathers to be in the delivery room. They are in no way painting anything as a disaster, unless you are one who views honest talk about women's experiences by women as a disaster. Contrary to your erroneous bias, the information provided is very balanced and there is overwhelming support for significant others to witness birth.

Erroneous bias? I said I did not read the links and had no intention of doing so - so thank you for clarifying - but again I believe there should be discussion of why the presence of the father should be encouraged, rather than discouraged. If you have only posted links to show why the father should not be present, then it is you who has an erroneous bias.

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand

You did. Lao Po has already highlighted this in another post so I won't beat the proverbial dead horse.

I am going to ass-u-me that you have yet to experience childbirth. Many of us have done so from the father's side, I do believe we are qualified to offer support to a soon-to-be father who has already indicated that his wife wants him to be present. I don't see any real point in belaboring the discussion by suggesting that he not be present because of a perceived violation of the privacy of the wife, particularly when many wives would prefer that the father, or someone else, be present to offer encouragement and support.

[onethailand]

That may very well be the reason c-sections are so popular when some hospitals have to deal with an average of 15 women lining up for labor every day. Natural birth must be very time consuming regarding staff and resources.

C-sections are more common here because the average Thai woman is smaller. I believe you will find, upon further research, that C-sections are generally more common in Asia as opposed to Europe and North America - it's not only Thailand.

A C-section also requires more resources, such as an operating theater, anesthesiologist, etc. that would not necessarily encourage doctors to overstretch these resources by unnecessarily recommending the procedure.

[kat]

It seems that years ago we men were being slagged off for being down the pub when the baby was born and now we want to get involved, the feminazi want to shift the goalposts and opt us out of the process saying that they are worried we won't like them later or that there may be some strange liquids floating around. C'mon, we're not that weak. We have some education and if you think we haven't seen "down there" before, then how did we make the baby ?

We can find this forum so we can presumably find thousands of videos and pictures of childbirth on the net.

I've heard these stories about guys feeling that they cannot see their wives as sexual partners in the future but my two penneth is that these weak excuses for men are the ones who did not wqant to be there but went through it because of an overbearing demand from the mother to be. Guys who actually want to be there are unlikely to worry about a bit of piss here or shit there. I know I wasn't and am not.

You know, I was inclined to agree with you, until you used the term feminazi; what is that code word supposed to symbolize for you exactly? Is it similar in code to the term Nigger? Because otherwise, it is a meaningless slur and caricature of people who are vastly unique and differentiated beyond your grasp.

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand - as I can't really comment on that at this point - but I do know that caesarean deliveries are pushed overwhelmingly in Thailand and requested, and is rising rapidly. *I think the rapid rise of caesarean births are a factor in many places, and it would be interesting to study how the decisions for caesarean births are made in Thailand and why.

*edit

you said/wrote that less than 2 hours before this post with your words in post #29:

"Since natural childbirth is somewhat rare in LOS, Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth."

You forgot within 2 hours what you wrote before.....?

LaoPo

Well, actually I said SOMEWHAT, noting my ambiguity, but you're right - I honestly can't really say because I don't know the numbers, which I also mentioned before. I only know from published reports that caesareans are on the rise. It would be interesting to know more, but I don't have the time to go find out.

No, you are not correct. The first one is a thread in the *OWN WORDS of most importantly WOMEN, and men, who have witnessed natural childbirth, the second is a thread from a full range of perspectives of whether to witness or not, including the words of men as well as women with ample comment fields for both, and the third is an article questioning whether it is good or not for fathers to be in the delivery room. They are in no way painting anything as a disaster, unless you are one who views honest talk about women's experiences by women as a disaster. Contrary to your erroneous bias, the information provided is very balanced and there is overwhelming support for significant others to witness birth.

Erroneous bias? I said I did not read the links and had no intention of doing so - so thank you for clarifying - but again I believe there should be discussion of why the presence of the father should be encouraged, rather than discouraged. If you have only posted links to show why the father should not be present, then it is you who has an erroneous bias.

Secondly, I didn't say natural childbirth is rare in Thailand

You did. Lao Po has already highlighted this in another post so I won't beat the proverbial dead horse.

I am going to ass-u-me that you have yet to experience childbirth. Many of us have done so from the father's side, I do believe we are qualified to offer support to a soon-to-be father who has already indicated that his wife wants him to be present. I don't see any real point in belaboring the discussion by suggesting that he not be present because of a perceived violation of the privacy of the wife, particularly when many wives would prefer that the father, or someone else, be present to offer encouragement and support.

uhm, first of all, read my comments again. As I said previously, I did not post links that only showed one side, but very balanced and comments were overwhelmingly supportive of witnessing birth delivery. Again, very selective reading on your part. Is that indicative of selective thinking as well?

Yes, you assumed. I have witnessed and been the hand-holder for two natural births. You also completely distorted, misrepresented, and obviously misunderstood my points thus far. Please read them again because I don't feel like repeating what has already been plainly stated. It's very tedious.

That may very well be the reason c-sections are so popular when some hospitals have to deal with an average of 15 women lining up for labor every day. Natural birth must be very time consuming regarding staff and resources.

C-sections are more common here because the average Thai woman is smaller. I believe you will find, upon further research, that C-sections are generally more common in Asia as opposed to Europe and North America - it's not only Thailand.

A C-section also requires more resources, such as an operating theater, anesthesiologist, etc. that would not necessarily encourage doctors to overstretch these resources by unnecessarily recommending the procedure.

*For a moment, I started to assume that C-sections could've been related to smaller stature, but that may be a jump until there is confirmed evidence. C-sections are on the rise in other countries as well. The real information will be in why they are on the rise, with a large enough sample size to be confident of the findings. *The reasons may vary; for example, in the United States, it is because of insurance payments. I have since read reports that successful natural childbirths have nothing to do with outward appearances of the pelvis. When you think about it, this makes sense, because how would all of these smaller stature people have been born before C-sections? There have been plenty of examples in the West of tiny women giving birth to large babies. The rapid rise of C-sections in Thailand is only over the last several to 15 years or so.

*edit

Edited December 19, 2007 by kat

[LadyinRed]

We changed hospital and doctor because C-section was encouraged (we were asked to sign a C-section release form in my first trimester!).

A second doctor we've seen are more sympathetic to our request, and he did a great job.

There was no objection of the father being in the delivery room, camera and all. Having him there helped a lot, for the first timer!

A lot of Thai women I spoke to gave birth using C-section because 'it was easier'.

I was adamant to have a natural delivery because I was more terrified of the epidural needle into my spine than anything else.

It's a personal choice I suppose, natural or C-section, given the 'high medical advances' in child birthing, but personally I think C-section should be done only in case of emergencies.

[bina]

'thai women as small'

not true as far as i know (no stats, just empiracal evidence here and we have a huge birth rate here); many if not most of us small women give birth no problem no fuss (i am really small skinner then most thai women i've seen who all seem to be petite but with wide hips, but i am 'roomy' as the ob/gyn put it...its the width of the hips inside not the size or weight of the woman and i have a small butt but my internal hip area is wide) and while i gained about 22 kilo with each pregnancy, the babes were small...and my sister in law is a huge boned finnish woman and tall and broad: all c sections due to problematic baby and then the once a c section always a c section theory...

the rise i think may be due to the fact that women are told its easier, no pain, more convenient as far as schedule go, doesnt 'rip' her down there (keeps her 'tight') and faster.... its seen as 'modern'. how many thai women nowadays breastfeed? if it 'ruins' their breasts or in inconvenient, then why bother; and formula is seen as much more 'modern' (and was pushed as such by the formula companies)...and education is also a part of it... pre birth classes really really help. the worst thing is when all the old cronies and aunties and sisters start telling birthing horror stories (i was in labour for three days in pain etc etc etc and they yanked the baby out blablabla--never underestimate the power of these stories. every old crone who see a pregnant woman here starts in on the horror stories of daughters' in law' horrible births etc; its enough to make any young mother- to- be freaked out and want a c section to get it over with)

i'm sure that home birthing, dolas, natural childbirth, etc will swing back round in thailand years after it hits its popularity in western countries...

as for amounts of births, dont think too many countries can beat us: i gave birth each time had to room with women who were on their 9th! 7th! etc...

{we, btw, have a huge lack of anesthesiologists since its not an attractive profession, so natural childbirth and c section takes on a whole new aspect (for those wanting to give birth in israel there is a huge lack of anesthesiologists, and medical is not private so what u get when u go in is what there is... grin and bear it...}

the general rise in c sections may also be related to the rising age of first time mothers in western countries where c sections are recommended ... and to the multiple fetus pregnancies again due to use of artificial means of conception with more then one viable fetus; late pregnancies, more over weight women with pregnancy related problems making a natural birth difficult... the list can go on

anyway, all been discussed in the ladies forum before (to have or not have c sections)...

with the first my (ex) husband was present by the third child, i didnt really care (and it wasnt allowed since i gave birth in a religious hospital that time) as he was present for most of the hard part when u really want someone to help u moisten your lips, massage u are whatever... for the actual pushing out... i was concentrating on me and getting that darn hard thing out out out and kaddafi could have been at my side and it wouldnt have mattered. i think that i if i ever had a next time it would be with a woman friend present instead, less explaining to do and they just seem to know better what u want without having to explain...

or to quote a friend of mine yelling at her husband when she gave birth to her third: u got it in to me, now get it out!!!

anyway, good luck,

bina

israel

[YangYaiEric]

When our daughter was born (nearly) 4 years ago, my husband was asked by my doc (Bumrungrad) if he wanted to witness the birth. Because I was having a c-section, I had no problem with my husband being there, but there would be no way I'd let him witness a natural birth

Being there to watch my son being born was the most significant moment of my life. It changed me in ways i never imagined. If a guy chose not to go into the delivery room is fine but for his wife to disallow it would be, (IMO), the most heartless thing they could do.

Agree with you, there!

Why would the mother NOT want her husband to witness the birth of their child? When my first daughter was born, I was with my wife for 10 hours during labour! But, she did insist on me sitting directly next to her (face-to-face), and NOT see what was going on 'downstairs' . I guess some women are shy when it comes to that sort of thing?

I'm not the only woman who would not want their husbands/partners to witness a natural birth. We both watched birthing videos and we both decided that natural WAS NOT the way to go. Many people may find the whole natural birthing a beautiful thing, but for us - there is nothing natural or beautiful about all the pain, agony and stress of pushing out something the size of a watermelon out of a much smaller opening.... and the risk of my husband getting flashbacks during "time together" was also another reason for me to opt for a c-section. My husband was there to witness the doctor perform the c-section and seeing our daughter for the first time, and for both of us it was perfect way for our daughter to be born.

I absolutely loved being pregnant and my pregnancy was unbelievably easy (no morning sickness or other usual complications/complaints) and I wanted the delivery to be a just as wonderful experience. IMO, until men are physically capable of pregnancy and giving birth - it should the womans choice on what sort of delivery and if she wants witnesses present during the birth or NOT.

Absolutely agree with you, 'msfigure'. It's a woman's prerogative entirely

[onethailand]

uhm, first of all, read my comments again. As I said previously, I did not post links that only showed one side, but very balanced and comments were overwhelmingly supportive of witnessing birth delivery. Again, very selective reading on your part. Is that indicative of selective thinking as well?

My mistake, but I did not visit the links, and I may have missed your statement that the links showed balanced comments.

Yes, you assumed. I have witnessed and been the hand-holder for two natural births. You also completely distorted, misrepresented, and obviously misunderstood my points thus far. Please read them again because I don't feel like repeating what has already been plainly stated. It's very tedious.

I have not distorted anything. And yes, that's why I ass-u-me'd, knowing there was a chance I would be the ass

Having witnessed two natural births, why would you deny that same satisfaction to the father? If anything, a father's claim to a right to be present would be stronger than that of a friend or hand-holder, unless that was the wish of the mother.

You were the one who made a claim that "Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth." Completely unsubstantiated, in my opinion, and preceded by a dubious claim that natural childbirth is somewhat rare. If anything, you've made points which are not backed up by fact, yet stated as if they were.

Size of the mother does not preclude natural childbirth, of course. It does, however, make it more difficult. And the health of the woman also plays a role.

In our case, 12 hours to dilate was definitely not normal. It is debatable whether it has anything to do with the physical stature of my wife, but it is commonly marked down as "failure to progress". Certainly physical size is the common assumption amongst health professionals, with other factors including fear playing some role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section

Here is a link to Men's Role in Childbirth - you can make up your own minds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_role_in_childbirth

[ukjackthai]

Best of luck to you Sir. Tony! I cant wait to have kids.

My dream is to have an army of blue-eyed 3/4 thai and 1/4 british daughters

:passifier::passifier:

Edited December 19, 2007 by ukjackthai

[markwhite]

C-sections are more common here because the average Thai woman is smaller.

I was thinking that, but then I wondered: aren't babies here generally smaller too?

[onethailand]

C-sections are more common here because the average Thai woman is smaller.

I was thinking that, but then I wondered: aren't babies here generally smaller too?

I would think that a baby's size is determined by a number of factors - DNA, for one - imagine a man with a husky bone structure and a petite woman...

[bina]

again, external physical size doesnt matter; my ex is a gigantic big boned guy (of hungarian/romanian farm decsent) and as i stated before i am 42 kilo small bone, petite, (skinny bony )and gained about 22 kilo each pregnancy; all three were born regular w/o pain killers, fast once the contractions set in; yes it hurt, it was bearable pain for me, but i was psychological prepared AND i have a high threshhold for pain; had no fears, loved every minute and was unbearable hungry after each birth... waiting to have my shower and breakfast... dint shave, didnt do an enema, did sh** on the doc; but as i also said, once the pushing started i couldnt have cared less who was in there with me as long as 'it' got out; once i saw the babe, nothing else mattered and women do forget quickly their birth experiences unless there was trauma involved...

i loved the idea of 'labour' working to get my baby into the world; im glad i was awake, aware and it wasnt with surgery which freaks me out. yes it was hard. i needed IV of saline/glucose for some 'energy' , our rooms were semi private, u get any doctor/midwife on duty or with change of shift, and in one hospital husbands are not allowed to be present but i had lovely midwives each time, i remember everyone of them and they were the real help.

...obviously if there was any medical reason to do a c section, we would have done it and not fought the decision... but then, i was in good shape, no major health problems, although with genital herpes often active i was on a constant watch with blood titre for live virus which would have changed the doc's decision to do a c section (i was one of the first in israel, and it was me who presented the info to my obgyn and did the research and 'what if ' scenarios which later became the 'procedures' for all women with HSV-2). apart from blood checks on my kids after birth, no problems.

either way as long as the baby and mom are safe and healthy, it really is a moot point... even if u go in with a plan, things happen and change so that it is never what u expect including the supposed sex of your child !!! (our 'girl' in the ultrasound turned out to have a wee penis although i argued with the nurse that the baby was supposed to have been a girl )17yrs later my son has heard this story a million times...

bina

edit: i neglected to mention it is often what the wives hear since they are around other women that makes them fear or trust natural birth etc. i was raised not even talking about births but on kibbutz its rather like a cowshed, everyone is always pregnant or giving birth, so when natural births came in to style along with breastfeeding as much as possible, thats what we all did and thats all we heard about at conversation at the table (yep, we sit around and talk about our 'times') and it was almost always positive. if the women hear only negative stories that frighten, then that will colour her choice making. if a doctor isnt sure about pelvic size then usually x ray or ultrasound will give a better picture. also if a sister or mother has had a c section due to pelvic size, NOT because they wanted to have a c section.

Edited December 19, 2007 by bina

[markwhite]

I would think that a baby's size is determined by a number of factors - DNA, for one - imagine a man with a husky bone structure and a petite woman...

I would've thought genes have just as much chance as coming from a petite mum, and there are a substantial proportion of those in Thailand, which is what I was getting at.

But it wasn't really that important. Just a throwaway observation that has nothing to do with the original topic...

[Boo]

The thought oF poo, waters breaking & various other numerous bodily fluids does scare a lot of first time mums when they think about labour but once you are in labour & once that baby is on it's way you really couldn't care less. You tend to leave your inhibitions & embarassment at the door on the way in & collect it on your way home. The main thing is to get a healthy baby out of you, if you need a c-section to do it then so be it but I really dont' think it should be the "only" option for any one & not if the doctors say it is. If mum choses to have a c-section that thats her business.

As for dad being in the room, why not, he helped make the baby so if he & mum want then it should be allowed. My husband was, saw my waters being broke (wish I had the camera to capture the look on his face then! ha ha) to seeing me be cut to get my son out. Not stopped his libido as he is smart enough to distinct between having sex & having a baby. That said, he wasn't much use tbh, it is a very "female" senario & he was a bit of a spare part also as I couldn't talk through the most of the labour (16hrs in total from waters braking plus a 4 day inducement) as the pain is intense & most of my enegy was on getting through contractions he was in boredom for most of it but he touched our sons head as it was crowning & the first picture the mw took of him holding out son with the cord still attached is priceless. He also cut the cord. I would never had denied him that precious chance to witness something amazing so would def have changed hospitals if they had said he couldn't but luckily he could & my only regret is that I didn't get to see me doing it too

Stand your ground Tony, if thats what you both want then find somewhere you can be present. Even though huby didn't do much, just having him in the room was great for me as a sign of support.

[kat]

uhm, first of all, read my comments again. As I said previously, I did not post links that only showed one side, but very balanced and comments were overwhelmingly supportive of witnessing birth delivery. Again, very selective reading on your part. Is that indicative of selective thinking as well?

My mistake, but I did not visit the links, and I may have missed your statement that the links showed balanced comments.

Yes, you assumed. I have witnessed and been the hand-holder for two natural births. You also completely distorted, misrepresented, and obviously misunderstood my points thus far. Please read them again because I don't feel like repeating what has already been plainly stated. It's very tedious.

I have not distorted anything. And yes, that's why I ass-u-me'd, knowing there was a chance I would be the ass

It's ok it's a discussion. You asked and I answered.

Having witnessed two natural births, why would you deny that same satisfaction to the father? If anything, a father's claim to a right to be present would be stronger than that of a friend or hand-holder, unless that was the wish of the mother.

In this case the fathers chose not to be there. Of course a father's claim to be there would trump me if that were the case, if that's WHAT THE MOTHER WANTED. I have never argued for policies banning fathers from hospital births, only that the MOTHER'S DECISION TRUMPS ALL.

You were the one who made a claim that "Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth." Completely unsubstantiated, in my opinion, and preceded by a dubious claim that natural childbirth is somewhat rare. If anything, you've made points which are not backed up by fact, yet stated as if they were.

You used an earlier comment that was already explained by me as not being fact. This isn't a dissertation, and I said MAY the first time, noting that I WASN'T putting it forth as fact. And, I already explained that in the course of discussion "somewhat rare" was just a fast semantic imprecision that I meant as a contrast to caesareans, and not really a claim that I was ever intent on representing as fact. At this point I can't represent it as fact, just like everyone else on this thread right now. I also said that it would be interesting to study this and find out, but I don't have the time. What I did say, and made a distinction of, is that C-sections are growing rapidly in Thailand, and in some other places, and it would be interesting to find out why. I never put it forth as substantiated fact, and already said as much. So please, represent your points a bit more honestly.

Size of the mother does not preclude natural childbirth, of course. It does, however, make it more difficult. And the health of the woman also plays a role.

In our case, 12 hours to dilate was definitely not normal. It is debatable whether it has anything to do with the physical stature of my wife, but it is commonly marked down as "failure to progress". Certainly physical size is the common assumption amongst health professionals, with other factors including fear playing some role.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section

Here is a link to Men's Role in Childbirth - you can make up your own minds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_role_in_childbirth

It would seem that size does matter, but at this time it's hard to say. I am not a health professional that has seen a wide variety of births. Right now, there are all kinds of women having caesareans that have nothing to do with size or ability, and that includes Thailand. As we have discussed and heard from a variety of viewpoints, that is also backed up by medical studies, caesareans are rapidly being pushed as an alternative to natural births for reasons other than physical ability. Small stature really doesn't dictate whether it may be more difficult.

I think I need to repeat myself and my main points here:

1. I am not advocating official policies that would ban fathers from the delivery room. Personally, I think it's great that so many think of it as an important experience. I'm not sure if I personally would want it, but, that would depend on the father.

2. It is a decision for the parties giving birth, not the medical personnel.

3. MY MAIN POINT ON THIS THREAD: The woman's decision trumps all. If it will help to have the dad in the room, then do it. If not, it is more supportive for fathers to respect her wishes, without calling her names or developing a victim complex. SHE is the one doing the heavy lifting in childbirth.

*My comments are this color throughout.

Edited December 19, 2007 by kat

[Tony Clifton]

Talking about size, my dad weighed 13 pounds at birth while my grandmother weighed 95 pounds pretty much her whole adult life.

She gave birth to 7 sons and 3 daughters, two girls were twins. Ouuuch.

Seeing the doc this evening. If he wasn't joking, he's out along with the hospital.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[stiggy]

How did this happen............?

I start reading a forum about Drs refusing entry for fathers..I used to work in the medical world in Thailand and was interested and then.

After following Kats link http://www.poopreport.com/Techniques/Conte...abor/labor.html

I find myself at some sort of middleclass scat site...... pooreport.com...

:D

[Tony Clifton]

How did this happen............?

I start reading a forum about Drs refusing entry for fathers..I used to work in the medical world in Thailand and was interested and then.

After following Kats link http://www.poopreport.com/Techniques/Conte...abor/labor.html

I find myself at some sort of middleclass scat site...... pooreport.com...

:D

Middle-class, lower-class. upper class, we all poop, but half of us don't give birth.

I for one did not know it happened frequently while giving birth.

[bina]

when u press down on a ketchup plastic bottle, the ketchup squirts out; same as us, baby presses down on a so whatever can come out, does (sometimes the uterus part and parcel - prolapsed)...

at the risk again of sounding new age'ish about natural birth (not c section if there is no reason) is that it really is all blood and earth, animalistic kind of... and for thousands of years all female mammals have been doing it, pushing out babies and then turning around and licking/cleaning them and then nursing them... i help my goats every year, and every year i am amazed by the process... sometime we help, and sometime we are just spectators, but its always amazing, and the men are always more slightly disgusted by it all; i find myself coaching my goats along thru their labour and really empathizing with them... poor things, what they go thru w/o epidural, with pitocin sometimes, with triplets tangled up... its really amazing that they all get out .... but they do.

[SpacemanSpliff]

It would seem pretty unthinkable NOT to be there, especially for a "natural" birth that proceeds normally.

Maybe you need to explain who's the customer here, and there's many many many hospitals in Thailand.

Not only was I there all the time, I also got some excellent pics and video.

[kat]

Talking about size, my dad weighed 13 pounds at birth while my grandmother weighed 95 pounds pretty much her whole adult life.

She gave birth to 7 sons and 3 daughters, two girls were twins. Ouuuch.

Seeing the doc this evening. If he wasn't joking, he's out along with the hospital.

Wow! You know, sometimes we take so much for granted and forget how amazing that is.

when u press down on a ketchup plastic bottle, the ketchup squirts out; same as us, baby presses down on a so whatever can come out, does (sometimes the uterus part and parcel - prolapsed)...

at the risk again of sounding new age'ish about natural birth (not c section if there is no reason) is that it really is all blood and earth, animalistic kind of... and for thousands of years all female mammals have been doing it, pushing out babies and then turning around and licking/cleaning them and then nursing them... i help my goats every year, and every year i am amazed by the process... sometime we help, and sometime we are just spectators, but its always amazing, and the men are always more slightly disgusted by it all; i find myself coaching my goats along thru their labour and really empathizing with them... poor things, what they go thru w/o epidural, with pitocin sometimes, with triplets tangled up... its really amazing that they all get out .... but they do.

Yes, nice. You just made me realize I want to visit you and your goats.

[Tony Clifton]

Visited the doc this evening, I stayed in the waiting room this time although I went in the doc's office on every previous visit. I really have to keep cool here sometimes, and I thought him knowing I was sitting right outside this time may have given him a hint (prolly not ) that I wasn't too impressed with the top secret child birth method.

He recommended to my wife I write a letter that I should give to him so that he'd present it to the hospital in the hope I'd be allowed in the room at delivery. I beat him to it on our way home, I stopped at that very same hospital and we went right up to the ward. We asked the personnel there but they all agreed it is not allowed anymore, without exception. The reason given in unison? Too many lawsuits!

I almost burst out laughing! What? Do you drop slippery babies on the floor that often? Or are your doctors are so incompetent that you protect them, instead of firing them, by not allowing any witnesses into the room with a camera, or maybe the insurance costs are such a nuisance to your f$% prosperity? The place has gone downhill over the last few years anyway, dirty floors, dirty walls where people sit and rest their heads , unnecessary and overpriced medication.

Samitivej Sri Racha:

Came home, checked Samitivej, 1st Google result, all Samitivej locations shown, clicked, a comprehensive Samitivej English website popped up . Arai wa? They have a hospital in Sri Racha 40 minutes from here. Went there once few years ago and it looked very clean at the time. Don't care if it's more expensive. Wife's cousin was at Samitivej Sukhumvit and her husband was apparently allowed in the operating room for a c-section. Some of their English pages aren't as complete as the the Thai version but still quite elaborate.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[onethailand]

The reason given in unison? Too many lawsuits!

Well, true or not, I sure as hel_l wouldn't be considering that hospital any more

Came home, checked Samitivej, 1st Google result, all Samitivej locations shown, clicked, a comprehensive Samitivej English website popped up . Arai wa? They have a hospital in Sri Racha 40 minutes from here. Went there once few years ago and it looked very clean at the time. Don't care if it's more expensive. Wife's cousin was at Samitivej Sukhumvit and her husband was apparently allowed in the operating room for a c-section. Some of their English pages aren't as complete as the the Thai version but still quite elaborate.

Yes - all three of mine were born at Samitivej Sukhumvit by C-section and I was present for all three. I would think that this policy applies across all of their branches.

However, be aware - they are now trying to meet new accreditation standards, and some things have changed - I would recommend you call and confirm this policy with them.