I Want To Witness Son's Birth

[torrenova]

It seems that years ago we men were being slagged off for being down the pub when the baby was born and now we want to get involved, the feminazi want to shift the goalposts and opt us out of the process saying that they are worried we won't like them later or that there may be some strange liquids floating around. C'mon, we're not that weak. We have some education and if you think we haven't seen "down there" before, then how did we make the baby ?

We can find this forum so we can presumably find thousands of videos and pictures of childbirth on the net.

I've heard these stories about guys feeling that they cannot see their wives as sexual partners in the future but my two penneth is that these weak excuses for men are the ones who did not wqant to be there but went through it because of an overbearing demand from the mother to be. Guys who actually want to be there are unlikely to worry about a bit of piss here or shit there. I know I wasn't and am not.

You know, I was inclined to agree with you, until you used the term feminazi; what is that code word supposed to symbolize for you exactly? Is it similar in code to the term Nigger? Because otherwise, it is a meaningless slur and caricature of people who are vastly unique and differentiated beyond your grasp.

Me thinks you want to take a chill pill Kat. The right of women to be treated as equal has come a long way but to quote Orwell from Animal Farm "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" and your position is that it is the mother having the baby and whatever she wants goes and bugger the other half of the equasion, the father. From an historic imbalance in favour of men, the feminazi do not seek status quo but rather a society where they have the upper hand.

Your inference that there was some clandestine reference akin to nigger and black people is uncalled for as is your assumption that anything is beyond my grasp. I think these very comments of yours are indicative of your stance and where you see the place of the woman in your ideal society.

Now lets not further hijack this thread with our ideological differences.

[Khutan]

Arai wa?

We all know that is not polite.

Moving on, there are many hospitald that will let you be at the birth. Start looking a bit more north of where you are. Remember after contractions start, it takes a while.

[kat]

Visited the doc this evening, I stayed in the waiting room this time although I went in the doc's office on every previous visit. I really have to keep cool here sometimes, and I thought him knowing I was sitting right outside this time may have given him a hint (prolly not ) that I wasn't too impressed with the top secret child birth method.

He recommended to my wife I write a letter that I should give to him so that he'd present it to the hospital in the hope I'd be allowed in the room at delivery. I beat him to it on our way home, I stopped at that very same hospital and we went right up to the ward. We asked the personnel there but they all agreed it is not allowed anymore, without exception. The reason given in unison? Too many lawsuits!

I almost burst out laughing! What? Do you drop slippery babies on the floor that often? Or are your doctors are so incompetent that you protect them, instead of firing them, by not allowing any witnesses into the room with a camera, or maybe the insurance costs are such a nuisance to your f$% prosperity? The place has gone downhill over the last few years anyway, dirty floors, dirty walls where people sit and rest their heads , unnecessary and overpriced medication.

Samitivej Sri Racha:

Came home, checked Samitivej, 1st Google result, all Samitivej locations shown, clicked, a comprehensive Samitivej English website popped up . Arai wa? They have a hospital in Sri Racha 40 minutes from here. Went there once few years ago and it looked very clean at the time. Don't care if it's more expensive. Wife's cousin was at Samitivej Sukhumvit and her husband was apparently allowed in the operating room for a c-section. Some of their English pages aren't as complete as the the Thai version but still quite elaborate.

I agree with OneThailand here - I hope you find a different hospital. It's good you found out now.

It seems that years ago we men were being slagged off for being down the pub when the baby was born and now we want to get involved, the feminazi want to shift the goalposts and opt us out of the process saying that they are worried we won't like them later or that there may be some strange liquids floating around. C'mon, we're not that weak. We have some education and if you think we haven't seen "down there" before, then how did we make the baby ?

We can find this forum so we can presumably find thousands of videos and pictures of childbirth on the net.

I've heard these stories about guys feeling that they cannot see their wives as sexual partners in the future but my two penneth is that these weak excuses for men are the ones who did not wqant to be there but went through it because of an overbearing demand from the mother to be. Guys who actually want to be there are unlikely to worry about a bit of piss here or shit there. I know I wasn't and am not.

You know, I was inclined to agree with you, until you used the term feminazi; what is that code word supposed to symbolize for you exactly? Is it similar in code to the term Nigger? Because otherwise, it is a meaningless slur and caricature of people who are vastly unique and differentiated beyond your grasp.

Me thinks you want to take a chill pill Kat. The right of women to be treated as equal has come a long way but to quote Orwell from Animal Farm "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" and your position is that it is the mother having the baby and whatever she wants goes and bugger the other half of the equasion, the father. From an historic imbalance in favour of men, the feminazi do not seek status quo but rather a society where they have the upper hand.

Your inference that there was some clandestine reference akin to nigger and black people is uncalled for as is your assumption that anything is beyond my grasp. I think these very comments of yours are indicative of your stance and where you see the place of the woman in your ideal society.

Now lets not further hijack this thread with our ideological differences.

I'm quite chill, thanks. And since you kicked off this aspect of the discussion with the term "feminazi", it's worth completing. The term is a slur that you use to codify and dismiss people in much the same way that racial slurs are used, in which the meaning has more significance for the person using it than it does for the actual reality of the target. You have no idea of who I am and my ideas of some "secret society" for women other than what I have stated here. If you think that it is Nazism to expect that everyone should have their own voice in their own experiences - including women - and that she should have the maximum consideration for her wishes to feel comfortable in natural childbirth, then we really disagree on our interpretation of who is the true Nazi; That's our difference, and it is not restricted to only women.

And no, it's not going to change so let's not waste time or energy.

[torrenova]

I'm quite chill, thanks. And since you kicked off this aspect of the discussion with the term "feminazi", it's worth completing. The term is a slur that you use to codify and dismiss people in much the same way that racial slurs are used, in which the meaning has more significance for the person using it than it does for the actual reality of the target. You have no idea of who I am and my ideas of some "secret society" for women other than what I have stated here. If you think that it is Nazism to expect that everyone should have their own voice in their own experiences - including women - and that she should have the maximum consideration for her wishes to feel comfortable in natural childbirth, then we really disagree on our interpretation of who is the true Nazi; That's our difference, and it is not restricted to only women.

And no, it's not going to change so let's not waste time or energy.

I agree I have no idea of who you are or who or what hurt you so much for you to twist this argument so far off course but I do agree that we should not attempt to find a common pathway as your inferences are so far off the mark.

[kat]

Well, for a start TN, if you really want to understand, you could refrain from using slurs like Feminazi as a substitute for dialogue.

Haven't we all been hurt at one point or another? It should give us more reason to be compassionate.

Anyway, have a great day and a good holiday season if I don't talk to you beforehand.

Ciao.

[Sheryl]

First of all...the doctor keeps asking your wife if she wants a medically unnecessary c-section? CHANGE DOCTORS. Full stop.

Second of all, as I read the OP the issue is not about the woman wanting or not wanting her husband present but about the doctor and/or hospital allowing it. As many other posters have said, it is not unheard of in Thailand for the husband to be present and you should shop around for a doctor and hospital that will accomodate this. Not only is it your right and a sound practuice (in terms of providing emotional support for the woman) but it is indicative of a patient-centered orientation.

Naturally if the delivery is going to happen in a non-private delivery room then you can't go in, would be unfair to the other patients, but I think all but the smallest district hospitals have private delivery rooms.

And of course, the women's wishes should be respected if for example she feels uncomforable having you watching "down there" (which in any case will be a rather crowded location you would only be able to view from afar come the critical moment) and prefers you face to face with her. On the other hand, many women like for the husband to get a photo of the actual birth, it's an individual thing.

Change doctors, if necessary change hospitals, get a doctor who practices good medicine by the book (in which case he will not even bring up a c-section unless there is a medical indication) and is comfortable having you present. Be pro-active in discussing things like anesthesia (epidural does a lot to reduce the worst of the pain while leaving the woman fully conscious).

And when the time comes, focus on supporting your wife through it, if you do that she'll be more than glad you were there.

[Tony Clifton]

We are changing hospital. We took naps this afternoon and I haven't heard the news yet about her call to Samitivej Sri Racha.

Regarding c-section, I forgot to mention that the doctor said yesterday that since she is 38, that it is her first child, there may very well be complications, that's apparently why he would have insisted so much on it, I had missed that part.

She looked at pictures and online videos of natural birth last night and seemed to prefer a c-section afterwards and also more as D-day approaches.

[tijnebijn]

I wanted it also , they did not let me .

its only once in a lifetime and wanted to experience this

with my wife .

sadly so it is not common practise here in thailand .

[Tony Clifton]

Samitivej Sri Racha will allow me in the room if natural delivery is the case, if a c-section goes on , apparently I have to watch it from behind the glass of an adjacent room, then cut the cord etc.

[onethailand]

Samitivej Sri Racha will allow me in the room if natural delivery is the case, if a c-section goes on , apparently I have to watch it from behind the glass of an adjacent room, then cut the cord etc.

Well, maybe not exactly the same, but at least you get to watch. That would be an option I could accept.

But how do you cut the cord - by remote control?

[joskydive]

Tony, I really hope you get to be with your wife when she does give birth. I can only go by my own experience with giving birth and although they tried their hardest not to have my husband present, I was just as determine to have him there.

They insisted I come in the hospital the night before delivery as they were going to induce me the next morning.

All through the night they gave me pills with lots of water and kept asking if I was having any pains yet because they had decided I was going to have this baby during the night. Fortunately, the girl next to me started having the pains each time they came and so they took her away instead and left me alone.

As soon as my husband walked into the hospital the next morning I did start my labour and refused to allow anyone near me until my husband was with me in the labour room. Many, many hours later I had my daughter naturally and then had a 3 hour sew up. That is after cursing him up and down for getting me in this situation in the first place, of course!

Not for one minute have I or my husband regretted him being there with me on such an occasion. My daughter is an only child because I lost a couple before her and many after her. The chance to see your own flesh and blood being born, sometimes, is only a one time thing and no doctor should spoil that very special occasion for you. I believe also it makes for a very special bond between you and the child.

Hopefully, now you will have found the hospital and doctor who will allow you your right to be there and the best of luck for the future.

[kannon99]

As the birth gets closer, she now admits being more and more afraid of the pain and is seriously considering a c-section. If it involves less pain then and afterwards, I am all for it but I am concerned about medication prescribed during and following the surgery and it's effects on the baby while still in the womb and through breastfeeding afterwards. I think the epidural doesn't affect the baby, any sedatives or other drugs administered? Same goes for the mother, which heals faster and has less chance of complications? C-section or natural?

A woman as 3x the chance of dying with a C-section. It is major abdominal surgery. There can be life-long consequences for the mother and there can be side affects for the baby as well. C-sections also cause more pain after the birth and healing time is much much longer. Less mobility, more difficulty breastfeeding. Epidurals do have side affects for both mother and baby. Epidurals are often the cause of C-sections (look up cascade of interventions). Vaginal birth is by far less risky. The World Health Organization states that C-sections should account for 15% of births max. When I last checked, the "best" international hositals had very high rates... Bumrungrad was 90%!!! Yes, many Thai women opt for C-section, but a huge proportion of those C-sections was also "emergency".

[kannon99]

One other question: For natural childbirth in Thailand, is the mother and father-to-be taking birthing classes to prepare them for natural birth?

There are only a few classes offered, and most are biased. The teachers pretty much have to teach hospital policy. "Here's what the staff will do when you ... "

In my opinion, the best classes offered are at BNH (taught by independent teachers and you can take the classes if you're not birthing at BNH). I teach private classes but am on maternity leave. The best classes are the ones that teach evidence/research-based information.

[kannon99]

Since natural childbirth is somewhat rare in LOS, Thai medical teams may not be prepared for the full range of complications in a natural birth.

...

As far as I know, there can be complications to epidurals (sp) as well.

Usually the complications in natural birth here are from unnecessary interventions by the medical staff. OBGYN here is usually rarely practiced here looking at the research that is out there.

And yes, there are many epidural complications.

[kannon99]

Tony - my wife and I also wanted a natural birth - but 12 hours with not enough dilation after her water broke essentially made the decision for us.

...

Whatever you choose will not affect breastfeeding.

onethailand, that's so sad! 24 hours is the new protocol.

As for breastfeeding, vaginal birth with meds or C-section can affect breastfeeding. Not for all, but for quite a few.

[kannon99]

That may very well be the reason c-sections are so popular when some hospitals have to deal with an average of 15 women lining up for labor every day. Natural birth must be very time consuming regarding staff and resources.

I don't think C-sections are popular in regard to the # of women birthing because it takes so much more staff and resources.

I do labor support for women in hospitals and you're right about natural birth being time consuming. I've seen OBs "suggest" (coerce) women into unnecessary labor augmentation to ge it over with when all they really want to do is just go home and not wait. I've overheard one OB telling staff to give the mom something so she wouldn't make so much noise... never mind the woman was the only one in the birthing ward.

[kannon99]

'thai women as small'

not true as far as i know (no stats, just empiracal evidence here and we have a huge birth rate here); many if not most of us small women give birth no problem no fuss (i am really small skinner then most thai women i've seen who all seem to be petite but with wide hips, but i am 'roomy' as the ob/gyn put it...its the width of the hips inside not the size or weight of the woman and i have a small butt but my internal hip area is wide) and while i gained about 22 kilo with each pregnancy, the babes were small...and my sister in law is a huge boned finnish woman and tall and broad: all c sections due to problematic baby and then the once a c section always a c section theory...

the rise i think may be due to the fact that women are told its easier, no pain, more convenient as far as schedule go, doesnt 'rip' her down there (keeps her 'tight') and faster.... its seen as 'modern'. how many thai women nowadays breastfeed? if it 'ruins' their breasts or in inconvenient, then why bother; and formula is seen as much more 'modern' (and was pushed as such by the formula companies)...and education is also a part of it... pre birth classes really really help. the worst thing is when all the old cronies and aunties and sisters start telling birthing horror stories (i was in labour for three days in pain etc etc etc and they yanked the baby out blablabla--never underestimate the power of these stories. every old crone who see a pregnant woman here starts in on the horror stories of daughters' in law' horrible births etc; its enough to make any young mother- to- be freaked out and want a c section to get it over with)

i'm sure that home birthing, doulas, natural childbirth, etc will swing back round in thailand years after it hits its popularity in western countries...

as for amounts of births, dont think too many countries can beat us: i gave birth each time had to room with women who were on their 9th! 7th! etc...

{we, btw, have a huge lack of anesthesiologists since its not an attractive profession, so natural childbirth and c section takes on a whole new aspect (for those wanting to give birth in israel there is a huge lack of anesthesiologists, and medical is not private so what u get when u go in is what there is... grin and bear it...}

the general rise in c sections may also be related to the rising age of first time mothers in western countries where c sections are recommended ... and to the multiple fetus pregnancies again due to use of artificial means of conception with more then one viable fetus; late pregnancies, more over weight women with pregnancy related problems making a natural birth difficult... the list can go on

Very interesting post bina! I'm a doula!

I think that it's rare for a baby not to fit. When mixing races (here it's the small Asian woman + falang guy) it can happen. But what women are not taught is that all the bones of the pelvis move during birth and that being forced to birth in the most unnatural position (on the back with legs in stirrups) work against that movement.

[kannon99]

How did this happen............?

I start reading a forum about Drs refusing entry for fathers..I used to work in the medical world in Thailand and was interested and then.

After following Kats link http://www.poopreport.com/Techniques/Conte...abor/labor.html

I find myself at some sort of middleclass scat site...... pooreport.com...

Middle-class, lower-class. upper class, we all poop, but half of us don't give birth.

I for one did not know it happened frequently while giving birth.

I've attended quite a few births (including 4 of my own) and seen only one poo (and it was not mine lol) Women rarely even notice it and the nurses just do a quick wipe.

[kannon99]

i help my goats every year, and every year i am amazed by the process... sometime we help, and sometime we are just spectators

This is how medical staff should be, but too often the interfere when unnecessary and just cause more problems.

[kannon99]

I beat him to it on our way home, I stopped at that very same hospital and we went right up to the ward. We asked the personnel there but they all agreed it is not allowed anymore, without exception. The reason given in unison? Too many lawsuits!

I almost burst out laughing! What? Do you drop slippery babies on the floor that often? Or are your doctors are so incompetent that you protect them, instead of firing them, by not allowing any witnesses into the room with a camera, or maybe the insurance costs are such a nuisance to your f$% prosperity? The place has gone downhill over the last few years anyway, dirty floors, dirty walls where people sit and rest their heads , unnecessary and overpriced medication.

You are absolutely correct. I had a great conversation with a retiring OB the other day who is disgusted with most birthing practices here. He told me that the reason no one is allowed with women when they birth is because there is no one there to observe what really goes on. From cutting unnecessary episotomies, to forcing C-sections. The gov't and teaching hospitals are the worst. There is no one there to witness it, and if the mother complains, it's nothing to change the medical records. And this is from a highly respected OB in Bangkok!

[kannon99]

We are changing hospital. We took naps this afternoon and I haven't heard the news yet about her call to Samitivej Sri Racha.

Regarding c-section, I forgot to mention that the doctor said yesterday that since she is 38, that it is her first child, there may very well be complications, that's apparently why he would have insisted so much on it, I had missed that part.

She looked at pictures and online videos of natural birth last night and seemed to prefer a c-section afterwards and also more as D-day approaches.

Oh great, now you've got the "over 35" myth thrown at you! Ignore it. The natural birth videos online are scary and not how birth in many countries really is. Samitivej SR is a better option though the nursing staff has less experience in labor support. If she signs up for a C-section, it doesn't matter as much which hospital you go to. When I teach childbirth classes, communication with the OB is discussed in great detail. You are doing all of the right things. Questioning, going back for info from other sources,etc. You are the consumer, and you pay for what you want.

Send me a PM if want to discuss more. I'd happily give you a call and answer more questions.

[bina]

i actually gave birth to the first one of mine in a squatting position but it was difficult cause then i was higher up so there was no one behind me holding me up or supporting me; it would hve been easier if there was...

in hebrew the word for giving birth is literally : squatting to birth (kora'at l'ledet) as that is how beduins and ancient races did it and i think that so did the thai women as i remember in some thai movie that was supposedly accurate they have the main character birth in a squatting position (pulling herself up with ropes) ;just remembered -- the movei 'nang nak' about the woman that dies in childbirth and comes back as a ghost to live with her husband... anyway, she is shown as giving birth in a semi sitting/squatting position, although in this case she hemorrhages or something...

i also remember fighting with baby ward nurses to room- in my babies,... i literally had to steal my kid out of the baby area so she could be with me... what were they going to do? arrest me? ...

frankly at the time it was all very important, now looking back it doesnt seem so important as other important things happen with us and our kids that take over ... its human memory... after all, if we remembered exactly how painful each birth was, we wouldnt have more then one ever not to mention the difficult pregnancies, etc... so we must have some switch that debriefs us from it all, so we can do it again.

bina

israel

[Tony Clifton]

We're driving down to Samitivej Si Racha tomorrow We want to have a look and ask questions, wife is interested in buying a package.

I'll get an old shoulder injury checked while we're there.

She's changed her mind again switched to natural birth, after reading about the side effects of c-section for her and the baby.

[kat]

'thai women as small'

not true as far as i know (no stats, just empiracal evidence here and we have a huge birth rate here); many if not most of us small women give birth no problem no fuss (i am really small skinner then most thai women i've seen who all seem to be petite but with wide hips, but i am 'roomy' as the ob/gyn put it...its the width of the hips inside not the size or weight of the woman and i have a small butt but my internal hip area is wide) and while i gained about 22 kilo with each pregnancy, the babes were small...and my sister in law is a huge boned finnish woman and tall and broad: all c sections due to problematic baby and then the once a c section always a c section theory...

the rise i think may be due to the fact that women are told its easier, no pain, more convenient as far as schedule go, doesnt 'rip' her down there (keeps her 'tight') and faster.... its seen as 'modern'. how many thai women nowadays breastfeed? if it 'ruins' their breasts or in inconvenient, then why bother; and formula is seen as much more 'modern' (and was pushed as such by the formula companies)...and education is also a part of it... pre birth classes really really help. the worst thing is when all the old cronies and aunties and sisters start telling birthing horror stories (i was in labour for three days in pain etc etc etc and they yanked the baby out blablabla--never underestimate the power of these stories. every old crone who see a pregnant woman here starts in on the horror stories of daughters' in law' horrible births etc; its enough to make any young mother- to- be freaked out and want a c section to get it over with)

i'm sure that home birthing, doulas, natural childbirth, etc will swing back round in thailand years after it hits its popularity in western countries...

as for amounts of births, dont think too many countries can beat us: i gave birth each time had to room with women who were on their 9th! 7th! etc...

{we, btw, have a huge lack of anesthesiologists since its not an attractive profession, so natural childbirth and c section takes on a whole new aspect (for those wanting to give birth in israel there is a huge lack of anesthesiologists, and medical is not private so what u get when u go in is what there is... grin and bear it...}

the general rise in c sections may also be related to the rising age of first time mothers in western countries where c sections are recommended ... and to the multiple fetus pregnancies again due to use of artificial means of conception with more then one viable fetus; late pregnancies, more over weight women with pregnancy related problems making a natural birth difficult... the list can go on

Very interesting post bina! I'm a doula!

I think that it's rare for a baby not to fit. When mixing races (here it's the small Asian woman + falang guy) it can happen. But what women are not taught is that all the bones of the pelvis move during birth and that being forced to birth in the most unnatural position (on the back with legs in stirrups) work against that movement.

Thanks Kannon. You confirmed a lot of my suspicions, and if I was giving birth in Thailand, I would definitely look into natural childbirth with a doula like you.

[onethailand]

onethailand, that's so sad! 24 hours is the new protocol.

As for breastfeeding, vaginal birth with meds or C-section can affect breastfeeding. Not for all, but for quite a few.

Actually, now that I recall it, it was around 16 hours - with almost no dilation. The doctor was happy to stay and didn't pressure us - but we'd been there since morning and it was around midnight. The wife was tired, and probably stressed, and it really didn't look like she was dilating normally - so we all agreed that a C-section was the best procedure. Up until this time, and for many months, C-section was barely mentioned, and my wife was not exactly happy with the thought of surgery at any point.

None of us wanted it that way - not sure if I would've called that an emergency either, but it was rapidly approaching that stage and we just decided that there was no sense in letting it go any further.

Breastfeeding - kinda forgot about the meds. But otherwise there shouldn't be a big problem.

The 35 year old myth - would be interesting to know more, I always believed this, and so did my sister (she just gave birth a few months ago at 38).

And btw, welcome to TV - I'm sure there are plenty of anxious parents around here

Edited December 23, 2007 by onethailand

[ray23]

Government hosptial you may have a problem. Of the last three children born to farrangs a here in Udon that I am familar with were cesarean.

The reason farrang babies are to big, I doubt that very seriusly my ex was a Filipina and a small woman, she gave natural birth with my two dauhgters. I cut the cords and gave them thier first bath in life.

Labor with my Oldest daughter was a very long time close to 19 hours, second about 45 min after we got the hospital.

There is a very big difference in the states yuo go to Lamaz classes and you are ready for the entire proceedure.

Cesarean really seesm to be prferred here I think for the benefit of the doctor, more the the child and mother. But I could be very wrong, just what I had noticed in recent tiem here.

Not so sure I would want to be present for the surgery of a loved one, but natural birth yes I would highly recommend that. I held my exwifes hand all the way through and saw a wonderful aspect of my childrens life. Did it bound me to them more, I can't answer that I have a daughter from my first marriage before you were allowed to be present I love her just a much as the other two.

My guess is may need to cahnge doctors. But here is a good lesson to learn here, if it really is important o yuo then you need to find the right doctor from the beginning. I would think it would be difficult for the wife to change now she must have developed some trust of the doctor by now.

Good luck

[Tony Clifton]

Nope, not difficult at all for my wife to change doctors. After a few years here, I've learned that even though people claim to be professionals, they have become even more disposable. My wife being born here, being a true professional, is even more aware of this. The doctor's joke about me fainting and small nurses having to pick me up, following a serious question, immediately gave us a sign that my presence wasn't desired. Doesn't matter if there's only 2 to 3 weeks left, even days, Thai doctors are just as disposable in this household as are electricians, mechanics, cable tv companies and employees that have paraded over the years, mostly because of their preference for taking short cuts, as in c-section.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[kannon99]

Doesn't matter if there's only 2 to 3 weeks left, even days, Thai doctors are just as disposable in this household as are electricians, mechanics, cable tv companies and employees that have paraded over the years, mostly because of their preference for taking short cuts, as in c-section.

During one of the births I attended, the mom fired her doctor in labor! It's never too late.

And yes, short cuts is their preference. Whatever is easier for them, not the mother.

[sinam]

Good discussion from the mother and fathers "own" (won't use selfish) perspectives. Now I wonder what is best for the baby. I've heard from parents to be that there are benefits for a baby's immune system if they have a natural birth. Any truth to that? or are there more benefits for a baby through c-section?

Si Nam

[Boo]

Unless there is a real medical reason then I can't see any benefit to a c-section for the baby. If that is what the mum choses then so be it but a baby just wants to be born & it has been born out of womens vaginas for thousands of years, now it seems to be the preferred choice of women who don't want to expereince the pain of labour or hospitals who can charge more for the practice or cause it suits their schedule. In the UK c-section is the last option, is this cause we are a social welfare state so therefore there is no added financial benefit to one I wonder? Also docs there do beleive naural is best for both mum & baby but wont hesitate to give one if mum &/or baby are in distress. C-sections were invented to be performed to save baby &/or mums life not to please lazy doctors.