kannon99 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I've heard from parents to be that there are benefits for a baby's immune system if they have a natural birth. Any truth to that? or are there more benefits for a baby through c-section? More benefits through natural birth. 1. The baby gets the good bacteria from the moms vagina that colonizes in the baby's gut. Helps it fight off the bad bacteria. This can't happen with a vaginal birth. 2. Also, during a vaginal birth, the baby is squeezed. This helps force out all fluids from the baby's lungs. During a C-section, this doesn't happen (and suctioning doesn't get it all). Babies are 5x more likely to have breathing problems after C-sections because of this. 3. During a normal labor and vaginal birth, the mother and baby have several hormone reactions that help prepare the baby for it's immediate physiologic changes from living inside to being able to breathe on the outside with no attachment via placenta and umbilical cord. During a planned C-section, this does not happen, and some babies are born with shock reactions and unable to breath as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 in hebrew the word for giving birth is literally : squatting to birth (kora'at l'ledet) as that is how beduins and ancient races did it and i think that so did the thai women as i remember in some thai movie that was supposedly accurate they have the main character birth in a squatting position (pulling herself up with ropes) A former maid of mine and I had a discussion about this. Mother's gripping onto a rope from the ceiling during the pushing phase. She was quite embarassed that the women in her village were still birthing like this. The way they are birthing upright is actually more physiologically helpful for the mother. Most cultures birthed upright before the invention of obstetrics with a person "delivering" a baby for a woman instead of the woman birthing a baby into someone's hands. (But that's a whole other soapbox rant for another thread on another day LOL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I agree about the involvemet of obstetrics kannon99, I wanted my labour to be as unobstricted as possible but due to being diabetic & having to have insulin for the 7months I knew I was pregnant (am type2 & normally controlled by diet & excersize only) I had to have a glucose & insulin drip during labour also as I was induced at 38 weeks I also had to have a drip to force the contractions meaning I spent all of the 16hrs from having waters broken stuck to the bed, i beleive htis is why my labour took 16hrs & had to have thigh props during pushing to help. All in all very intrusive but a vaginal delivery & after a couple of days of gingerly walkng like john wayne I was up & out, doing houseowrk & generally existing normally after 3 days. But we veer off topic (sorry op) I think the intervention of medical staff is needed in some situations but I really do think that it should be up to mum to decide what she wants & that the medical profession should'nt be dictating or refusing without a really relevant & valid reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 (edited) Visited Samitivej in Sri Racha, quite clean and well organized compared to others visited before, friendly staff. 40 minutes from our house in Chonburi. Upon meeting a doctor there, I immediately felt this wasn't going to be a rush job, he actually talked with my wife for so long it equaled approximately 5 or 6 visits with the previous doctor. He carefully went through the previous doctor's notebook detailing each visit there. Checked her sugar levels, quick ultrasound for the baby's heartbeat. He made sure she was aware of what's coming up in the next two weeks or so and went over it with her. He also insisted that a c-section should only be done as a last resort in case of a complication and mentioned it's side effects for both and possible further complications.. I can be there whatever delivery method is required, cameras allowed, they even have someone available to take care of recording these precious moments. She later booked a package, nice spacey modern room on the 8th floor that's big enough to receive and sit at least 10 as we know the in-laws will surely come over from Samut Prakan, extra bed and kitchen, wonderful view of the sea and coast, even a balcony. The only hiccup was when, someone, I can't remember who, said that should labor begin before Jan 12, we should come in through the emergency entrance and register there, I mentioned that could be a trap for more expenses on top of the package and my wife agreed after giving it some thought. The main entrance is just as accessible with a ramp and close to the parking lot. We're both happy and relieved, well worth the extra effort. Edited December 24, 2007 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I can be there whatever delivery method is required, cameras allowed, they even have someone available to take care of recording these precious moments. !! You mean I got ripped off? I didn't get offered anyone to take care of recording those precious moments... I feel a malpractice suit coming on... ... not Sounds like a great deal, Tony. The emergency entrance thing sounds weird - are you sure it wasn't just offered as an option? It occurs to me that the registration at the front could be busier and that's what the person in question was trying to help you avoid? Either way, there won't be a problem going through the front entrance but it's nice to know that there's an alternative route just in case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Wife saw on a Thai forum that Samitivej Si Racha was taken over by Bangkok Pattaya. Can anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyinRed Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 A burning question: I wonder if hospitals in Thailand allow doulas at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Visited Samitivej in Sri Racha, quite clean and well organized compared to others visited before We've assembled the Film Crew for the Delivery room, Tony, and we'll be able to do a live feed through the Internet with this network of computers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 A burning question: I wonder if hospitals in Thailand allow doulas at all? They do. I'm a doula. (One of 3 that I know of in BKK) BNH, Samitivej Sukhumivit, and Bumrungrad do alllow doulas. Bumrungrad's rules are that only the mother and one person are allowed, but that's not been the case any time. Sukhumvit hospital has. We tried at Vejthani but that didn't work. Also a hospital in ChiangMai that allows. In my experience, it's either the hospital policy or more commonly, the individual doctor's preference. Most OBs do not understand what a doula's role is and feel threatened by her presence. Doula's are there for physical labor support/pain relief. Doula's don't advocate for parents... they're there for labor supposrt and the parents do the advocating. The doula is also there for information. If the doctor wants to do a procedure, the doula is not there to say if it's necessary or not... she's there to (if parents ask her) tell the reasons a procedure would be done and tell the pros and cons of the procedure. OBs don't like this (that why I do it when OB is not present) because they want to recommend and it be "obeyed" and not questioned. But this is one of the only ways a parent can make an informed decision because usually, the side-affects and pros and cons are not fully disclosed by the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyinRed Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I have the strange assumption that only foreigners opt for doulas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 Doula... Douleur, french for pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Well done and I'm glad your persistance has paid off. Just remember that even on the day, they may have some forms allowing them to charge whatever they want - get those out of the way well beforehand with time to discuss what they are actually for. Also, be prepared to stand your ground and insist that you want to be there. I was at the "top" end and could not have interferred if I had wanted to so in no way can you be a hindrance to whatever they have to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I have the strange assumption that only foreigners opt for doulas? Usually foreigners, yes. For one thing, the best pregnancy and birth literature that is based on evidence is in English, so Thai women have a serious lack of information. Even if they did want to be informed the info is just not there. I've browsed through the books available to women in Thai and they may have cute pictures and modern looking presentations, but so much of the info is "this is what we'll do to you when you enter the hospital" and while we're at it, here's some seriously outdated information that has been built on years of myths too. And in a culture where the "Dr. knows best" mentality takes precedent, it's rare to have a doula. This is because they either book their C-section or are told that the hospital staff will help them so why need a doula. Also, if a woman takes a family member that person is not trained for good labor support. There is also built into the culture a big fear mentality that is supported by friends, doctors, and media. I think the biggest reason is that many Thai women don't even know that doulas exist. My Thai neighbors and I have had long discussions about this, and most think that a doula is a wonderful idea but why have they never heard of one. Those who had vaginal births (few, sadly) wish they'd had help with pain relief, and those who had C-section question why (most question after the fact). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Doula...Douleur, french for pain. That's funny! It actually comes from Greek for "servant" or "slave" This explains more of what a doula does. http://www.findadoula.com/Parents/Aboutdoulas/what.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I was with my wife at Phuket International Hospital when she had a C-section last year. The doctor asked if I wanted to be present and that was all fine by me. No problems as they got the chicken shears out and got to work on her... Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Delivery date should be on the 12th until 19th max, we spent quite some time today with the doctor and he came to the conclusion that her pelvis is apparently in no shape for natural birth, something about the pelvic inlet not being round enough, more of a triangular shape making it too narrow. I think he said the baby is not in position yet as he should be as well because of it. Anyway, he showed us a series of drawings on his pc monitor explaining the problem. He recommends a c-section especially with the size of the baby who he says is above average. I don't fell this doctor is choosing this option for his convenience. She has decided to go for it this Friday, she should confirm with the doctor tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thouhg we had a caesarian it was due to over term and non dilation. Don't rule out a natural birth as things can progress quickly in the latter stages. What is your due date ? 1 to 2 weeks afterwards is normal if there is no risk to either the mother or baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 (edited) Due date is approx 12th. I think my wife said tonight that the baby's head isn't yet in place where it should be at this stage, because of the pelvic problem. I'm a little worried now again about an imposed c-section... Does anyone know if a simple feel test can determine if the pelvic inlet is too small or wrongly shaped? That's how this and head position was determined today, not by x-ray or other method. Edited January 8, 2008 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Due date is approx 12th.I think my wife said tonight that the baby's head isn't yet in place where it should be at this stage, because of the pelvic problem. I'm a little worried now again about an imposed c-section... Does anyone know if a simple feel test can determine if the pelvic inlet is too small or wrongly shaped? That's how this and head position was determined today, not by x-ray or other method. There is absolutely NO WAY a doctor can tell by xray or feeling that a baby is not going to fit through the pelvis. All of the bones of the pelvis MOVE during labor and birth. If the mother is pushing in an upright position (and not on her back with feet in the stirrups) the baby will come out. The "big baby card" is played by MOST doctors in Thailand. Ultrasound at this stage can show a due date off by +/- 3 weeks! And the weight? Off by as much as +/- 1 kg. Just because the baby has not dropped into position does not mean that it won't. You can wait until labor and see what happens. Going into labor, even if with a resulting C-section, is better because mother and baby both benefit from the birth hormones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 the size of the baby who he says is above average. It's all in that above average package he's got hanging between his legs, Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) Although I like this doctor more than the last, I now feel like you just can't win here and most doctors will proceed the way they like... Even if we waited until contractions began, if they really want to, they could still go ahead , lie and impose a c-section as a more profitable and time saving method... My wife will not choose anything else now that she's paid for a package. I woke up and she confirmed to me a c-section Friday afternoon. I'll discuss some more and see what she thinks. ------------------------------------------------------- Seems two of her sisters had the same problem, triangular pelvic inlet, something about angles, and big babies. I told my wife, maybe both your sisters and you are being told the most commonl used lie that leads to a c-section? That left her wondering... Edited January 9, 2008 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 My wife had a c-section and an operation at the same time while she was opened to correct other stuff. I'm not sure it really matters so much either way. I think if I was the woman, I'd opt for the c-section. By the way, they let me sit in on the c-section at BNH and I'm glad I was there, but then again if they made me sit at Au Bon Pain and have lattes and pastries until they were finished, I don't think I'd love my wife or son any less. Once the baby is born you won't care about how he was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Once the baby is born you won't care about how he was born. That's a common thought. Unfortunately, C-sections have a much higher risk for mother and baby during the birth and for some, for the long term, so they will care. Many women later suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of their C-section. Something to keep in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Although I like this doctor more than the last, I now feel like you just can't win here and most doctors will proceed the way they like... Even if we waited until contractions began, if they really want to, they could still go ahead , lie and impose a c-section as a more profitable and time saving method... My wife will not choose anything else now that she's paid for a package. I woke up and she confirmed to me a c-section Friday afternoon. I'll discuss some more and see what she thinks. ------------------------------------------------------- Seems two of her sisters had the same problem, triangular pelvic inlet, something about angles, and big babies. I told my wife, maybe both your sisters and you are being told the most commonl used lie that leads to a c-section? That left her wondering... Unfortunately, you said that you wife told you. I interpret that as she had a conversation in Thai with the doctor and she then translated it to you. Sorry but you are going to have to get back in control and have the doctor talk to you in english. You don't have much time left. It doesn't matter what package you've agreed as surely you haven't paid for it already. Perhaps 50% deposit but not 100% ? You can change whenever unless you've paid more than the package you change to. Don't forget the waiver forms they will try and dump on you when she is undergoing pre med. All the best but try and get some control back and stamp some authority on it. You only have one chance. Once the baby is born you won't care about how he was born. That's a common thought. Unfortunately, C-sections have a much higher risk for mother and baby during the birth and for some, for the long term, so they will care. Many women later suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of their C-section. Something to keep in mind. True, getting a caesarian is not to be thought of lightly. It is a major operation which earns more money for the doctor and the hospital. Certain hormonal issues can only occur with natural birth. A caesarian should be the last resort, not an elective choice at the behest of a doctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bina Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 for some definitions of pelvises: http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/drzeinab/present...le%20Pelvis.pps so this may help u clarify what the doc is saying: the slide show gives u exact angles of what is narrow and unusual... there is no mention of procedures, only pelvic types... i found it interesting but hten i like anantomy. either way, good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannon99 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Seems two of her sisters had the same problem, triangular pelvic inlet, something about angles, and big babies. I told my wife, maybe both your sisters and you are being told the most commonl used lie that leads to a c-section? That left her wondering... It sounds like he is talking about an android shaped pelvis which is not as common. The gynecoid is most commen. Android pelvii can mean that the head may not drop as low until much later in labor. As the head decends, those bones can move. It is not as easy of a birth, but still much better than the alternative C-sec. As for big babies, that's the most common reason for babies born by c-sec this day and most of those end up way smaller than predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Clifton Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) I 've only had 3 hours sleep last night...5 hours yesterday. She's made up her mind with the c-section by now and there's not much chance of changing hospital and doctor again I'm afraid. I'm exhausted and struggling to keep my head straight for today and for the last preparations before leaving home even though our luggage and baby stuff has been ready and packed to go for over two months now. Bina, I haven't reinstalled Powerpoint for the PPS, no time now, I ll look at the hospital, thanks. I'm a little disappointed in not being 100% confident about what's going on regarding natural birth vs. c-section, not from info I get on here but from the doctor. I'll try and squeeze in more today and see what more can be discussed when we arrive. Wife still insisted just now about her pelvic condition and both her sisters, mentioning that a fourth sister is chief accountant at Pu Jao Saming Prai in Samut prakan and that they wouldn't have pulled any tricks on her family members there as she's apparently respected and feared by many with her "powers". A little reassuring. I've also told her to warn them that should they try and keep me from witnessing the birth today, hel_l will break loose. I'll keep you updated. Edited January 11, 2008 by Tony Clifton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Good luck to you & your wife Tony, remember, at the end of the day, the main goal is a healthy baby & a happy mum so if this is what your wife is set on then support & help her cause like you say it's too late now anyway & her mind if made up. Post back when you can & let us know how your son is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrenova Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Good luck Tony. Hope all 3 of you are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) hahahahaha.... I hate to steal Dad's thunder..... because I know he's all pooped out... but "Baby Tony" came out just fine tonight to greet the world... and is crying and wailing up a storm in the newborn section of the hospital..... a regular chip off the ol' block, I'd say.... I'll let Papa provide further details tomorrow.... A Big Congratulations...again...to you Tony and Mrs. Tony! He's make a great Lead Singer for a Heavy Metal Band.... Edited January 11, 2008 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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