Tesol Advice Please

[SURREYCOUPLE]

Hiya

As some of you know I am coming to Thailand with my other half who is a Primary School Teacher next August. I planned on taking the CELTA at International House in September.

However, through the forums I have been offerred to take a TESOL course at Chichester for a reduced rate of 70% - a guy cant make his April course due to Uni commitments and as such Chichester have agreed to transfer his course into someone elses name. He wanted 50% but I got him down to 70%.

Now, my dilema.....

Do I as I think I want to; 1) Take the TESOL at Chichester for £200 - 4 week course. and then 3 weeks after this course finishes take the CELTA at International House which my dad has said he will pay for.... OR

2. Do i just take the TESOL and look for work straight away, bearing in mind we plan on staying in Thailand long term, not just for a year or 2.

My dad has said I cant keep the CELTA fee if I dont do the course which is cool.

Any advice from you "old timers" would be appreciated

Cheers

Ed

[stevemiddie]

Hiya

As some of you know I am coming to Thailand with my other half who is a Primary School Teacher next August. I planned on taking the CELTA at International House in September.

However, through the forums I have been offerred to take a TESOL course at Chichester for a reduced rate of 70% - a guy cant make his April course due to Uni commitments and as such Chichester have agreed to transfer his course into someone elses name. He wanted 50% but I got him down to 70%.

Now, my dilema.....

Do I as I think I want to; 1) Take the TESOL at Chichester for £200 - 4 week course. and then 3 weeks after this course finishes take the CELTA at International House which my dad has said he will pay for.... OR

2. Do i just take the TESOL and look for work straight away, bearing in mind we plan on staying in Thailand long term, not just for a year or 2.

My dad has said I cant keep the CELTA fee if I dont do the course which is cool.

Any advice from you "old timers" would be appreciated

Cheers

Ed

Yes youngster! What age group do you want to teach? CELTA is VERY good but is aimed at teaching adults.

The TESOL at Chichester College is very good. I completed mine there nearly 3 years ago and after completion walked into a 48k a month job at a good girls school in Bangkok. However, I do have a non-related degree.

I think from your earlier posts you don,t have one?

There is a program at the moment where Chulalongkorn University is farming out ( through agencies ) teachers to poor Government Schools ( for about 35-40k a month? ) and they state that they will obtain a WP for you even if you have NO degree.

Edited December 17, 2007 by stevemiddie

[SURREYCOUPLE]

Yes youngster! What age group do you want to teach? CELTA is VERY good but is aimed at teaching adults.

The TESOL at Chichester College is very good. I completed mine there nearly 3 years ago and after completion walked into a 48k a month job at a good girls school in Bangkok. However, I do have a non-related degree.

I think from your earlier posts you don,t have one?

There is a program at the moment where Chulalongkorn University is farming out ( through agencies ) teachers to poor Government Schools ( for about 35-40k a month? ) and they state that they will obtain a WP for you even if you have NO degree.

I am hoping to teach children although i am happy to teach adults. You are correct in me having no degree, only A Levels and an Advanced GNVQ in Business and Management. I will see if I can find more info on what you mention... thanks.

A question for you, would I get more money having a TESOL and CELTA - bearing in mind i see TEFL as a new long term career..

[mbkudu]

I hate to be a killjoy, but if I were you, I would take all that money you are going to spend on certificates, save some more, and then earn your first degree in either your home country or maybe even in Thailand. I have no regrets of my years working as a freelance teacher in Thailand with no degree in the past, but I would never do it without a degree today if given a second chance. If it's just for some fun and a year off playing in the sand, then sure do it. If it's for a job and a future, then no.

[SURREYCOUPLE]

mkudu - I understand what you are saying but to be honest i am very lucky in that money is not really a problem, the mortgage in Spain and the mortgage in the UK are both covered by our rental villa in Spain.

I decided at 18 I didnt want to study for a degree, studying wasnt really my thing at the time, i got bored easily. I still dont fancy the 3/4 years of studying and my other half has accepted a position in Bangkok which is very very well paid. Our plan was to move to Spain and settle down in 2 years and start a family there however the schools in spain do not pay well and we would lose £40k a year rental. We made a lucky buy when we were very young that has sorted us out for life:)

The rental/mortgage in Bangkok will be covered by my other halfs housing allowance and as such if i secured a job of 40k with my other halfs income we should have a disposable income of 150k after bills have been paid, more than enough for a comfortable life. I fell on my feet when we bought a villa in Spain 4 years ago.

However it is time for us to settle down, Thailand seems to be the right place and if I plan on making a career out of TEFL, I am trying to work out whether it will be a major benefit having both the TESOL and CELTA or whether the CELTA would be enough???????

Thanks....

[PeaceBlondie]

If you wish to teach TEFL, especially to adults and for ten to forty years, take lots of courses including the CELTA. If you only were to take one course (and didn't care if the CELTA was unnecessarily rigourous and tuned to adults only), take the CELTA. But at least for your situation, I'd say do the Chichester for four weeks, work in Bangkok (but not on the Nonthaburi project!!!!), and then return to the Continent.

[SURREYCOUPLE]

I really dont think anyone is grasping my situation... No offence meant.

Peaceblondie.. You recommend studying the CELTA and then returning to the continent. Our plan is to stay in Thailand permanently, this is a new start for us, i dont plan on coming to Thailand, taking a course and then returning to the UK.

All I am trying to establish is whether I would be more employable with a TESOL and CELTA or would employers not be bothered either way, hopefully someone who recruits reads this

So to clarify......

Q: Would I be more employable with the TESOL and CELTA or would just the TESOL suffice for a long term career in TEFL?

[Petch01]

Q: Would I be more employable with the TESOL and CELTA or would just the TESOL suffice for a long term career in TEFL?

No long term career in TEFL if you don't have a degree.

Petch01

[PeaceBlondie]

Pardon me for assuming you have more options than you are restricting yourself to. Life as a TEFL teacher in Thailand without a degree basically resembles life in prison, present simple tense, maybe all the way to future continuous, but really, no pleasant life to devote one's occupation to.

Having both certificates (without a degree) for a long term career in Thailand would be useless overkill. Here, either certificate will suffice in your case. So, I humbly suggest you take the course you're already enrolled in, then start teaching. From then on, you can spend most of your evenings taking night or correspondence courses to get a real degree, then a real master's in education. Good luck; hopefully in many years you'll be fully qualified, enjoying the high life in a Thai school.

[mssabai]

Just to clarify the above points. Celta / tesol = tomato/tomato. Same same. If someone will take you without a degree, they will do it whether you have a celta or a tesol and possibly neither . It is a waste of money (in my opinion) to get both.

But you will not be legal and therefore will be at the mercy of your employers (who can give you enough problems even if you are legal). Immigration officials here are also not known for their pleasant disposition and there have been a number of high profile raids of late.

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET A WORK PERMIT LEGALLY AS A TEACHER WITHOUT A DEGREE....

Up to you though - good luck!

[PeaceBlondie]

To quote Bill & Ted in their excellent adventure, "WAY". You can get a work permit without a degree. Can, can.

Unless, of course, you have to work in Bang-cock; or Pat-your-a, or Puck-it. Then, most likely, no way.

[stevemiddie]

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET A WORK PERMIT LEGALLY AS A TEACHER WITHOUT A DEGREE....

Up to you though - good luck!

Incorrect.

You can legally teach ( WP issued ) with NO degree on the Nonthanaburi? project?

[Loaded]

THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN GET A WORK PERMIT LEGALLY AS A TEACHER WITHOUT A DEGREE....

Up to you though - good luck!

Incorrect.

You can legally teach ( WP issued ) with NO degree on the Nonthanaburi? project?

Governement schools as well.

Some private schools can get you a wp if they really want you. They may need to employ you as a language consultant or volunteer but possible.

Language schools are a separate category to private/government schools so requirements aren't as strict and very possible here as well. Note: in Chiang Mai most teachers are employed p-t without wps and will employ you if you can show any sign of life.

[SURREYCOUPLE]

Peaceblondie - thanks you have certainly given me something to think about re: studying part time for a degree in Thailand.

Certainly gives me something to consider and work towards whilst we are in Bangkok.

Are degrees in Bangkok the same in the UK eg/ 3 or 4 years? Assumption College keeps cropping up on forums - is this somewhere that can be recommended?

[mssabai]

The school I work for at present is now in the process of organising their own visas and work permits for staff (previously this was done by an outside agency). They have been told by local and national immigration and the department of education that in order to LEGALLY get a work permit in a normal situation, the applicant must have a Bof Ed or a BA/BSC and TESOL/ CELTA.

Of course it is possible to get a work permit in LOS using forgeries or a bit of palm greasing. You can do just about anything here by waving a few baht, but I was trying to explain what my experience of the legal situation was. I remember reading about people getting busted for having work permits with false information about non-existent degrees fairly recently (Pattaya??). I know plenty of people teaching here without degrees, but in all cases, a string has been pulled somewhere along the line meaning that they are vulnerable to immigration checks and their employers whims. If you are talking about illegally, then he can just go and buy a degree on Khao San. In fact why even bother with the celta either?

If there are schools that will legally take him without a degree then why not PM him the details so he can apply?

[Ijustwannateach]

Mssabai, there are several reasons your school may be telling you these things:

1. You may be working in a private school, in which this is indeed the government policy. It is different for public schools and other institutions, however.

2. Your school may have decided this will be their own policy for now and passed the "blame" on to the government because it is indeed getting harder to get work permits for those on the less-qualified side.

3. Your school may not have interpreted the law correctly.

4. Your school may not even know the law and are making it up as they go and/or lying.

However, your insistence that a work permit cannot legally be issued for teaching- under the law, without funny business- is incorrect.

The degree-no degree is restricted on this forum, so let's get back to the opening topic if anyone has any more advice for the OP.

"S"

[mssabai]

Mssabai, there are several reasons your school may be telling you these things:

1. You may be working in a private school, in which this is indeed the government policy. It is different for public schools and other institutions, however.

2. Your school may have decided this will be their own policy for now and passed the "blame" on to the government because it is indeed getting harder to get work permits for those on the less-qualified side.

3. Your school may not have interpreted the law correctly.

4. Your school may not even know the law and are making it up as they go and/or lying.

However, your insistence that a work permit cannot legally be issued for teaching- under the law, without funny business- is incorrect.

The degree-no degree is restricted on this forum, so let's get back to the opening topic if anyone has any more advice for the OP.

"S"

Yep my school is private - so no they are not lying about anything. I will bow down to superior knowledge and say I am wrong (ouch)..I have always been informed that this was the case by agencies here and also from reading earlier post it seems as if other have as well.

Good luck to you! It seems as if it is not a problem after all for you not to have a degree...