Kidnapping

[paulsmithson]

Central Thailand. even to suggest you would buy a kid here and you would be shot!

No police-the family would kill you.

No trafficking in kids here, unfortunatley there are occasionaly children snatched from the street and we hear tales of how they are then mutilated and used as beggers. The perpetrators are usually Burmese!

No doubt there are Thais also involved along the line and I have heard even here of a local orphanage that is run by filth who grab the government support money and feed and cloth the kids minimally and sell them on when they reach school leaving age.

For anyone not living here---The Thais are very family oriented and the majority I have found to be so very good people.

The <deleted>-and such exist in any country in this world, are a group apart,. The bad Thai are a nightmare and will stop at nothing to get their ways,

[yorkman]

She actually looked at me like I had lost the plot a bit at first, and then said maybe, but she had not heard of it for years.

If it's happening, then as suggested above, it must be well underground.

Perhaps you could ask her to comment on this newspaper article: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30032123

Will do, wait until she has stopped nattering outside with her 2 gossip mates!

Swiftly bypassing the above...

Okies, here's what I got, make of it what you will (by the way this is input from all 3 of the above mentioned) 2 are teachers and one is Udon Chief Prosecutors wife. Thats not to say they know everything (of course they claim they do ) but just that they are not sat at home making Somtam all day, out in the community and all that good stuff.

The first question went along the lines of "well how many kids go missing in the UK every year?". I said "100's I think" Pitying look at the falang, thanks.

There was a comment and a bit of laughter about proclamations from Government departments. Given that 2 of them know what the Government say is going into education, and what actually turns up on the ground, I think you can excuse a bit of cynicism here. "Keep them looking busy man if they get say in paper" was one comment in Tinglish.

So onto the 2 boys, no comment there really apart from maybe yaba boys maybe true. So, dunno.

Having said that, they buzzed of into the kitchen, a bit more natter, came back and brought me a beer (bless) and there was this:

A girl went missing 3 or so years ago from wifey's cronies school. It only got reported because she had not turned up for school for 2 weeks, so the school asked the parents and they then reported her, ahem, missing. It would not take Sherlock Holmes to work out that she is probably in a more southern place

AND.. to add to the above. One lady in a village not far away sold her baby to a couple from Jomtien. She was/is very poor, husband has strayed, and the couple could not have kids. Mutual arrangement, legal adoption and all that.

[kat]

The perpetrators are usually Burmese!

Excuse me, do you have proof of this, or is it a racist scapegoating tactic told to you by Thais?

There are plenty of ethnic groups involved in the exploitation of women and poor people, but in Thailand the perpetrators are mostly Thai, because they are at the head of enforcement structures and mafias.

*However, there are plenty of documented legal cases of scapegoating and murdering Burmese by Thais!

Edited December 20, 2007 by kat

[yorkman]

Excuse me, do you have proof of this, or is it a racist scapegoating tactic told to you by Thais?

Oooh, very fair point!!!

Different subject though eh? It's worth a thread in itself

[JacknDanny]

The perpetrators are usually Burmese!

Excuse me, do you have proof of this, or is it a racist scapegoating tactic told to you by Thais?

There are plenty of ethnic groups involved in the exploitation of women and poor people, but in Thailand the perpetrators are mostly Thai, because they are at the head of enforcement structures and mafias.

*However, there are plenty of documented legal cases of scapegoating and murdering Burmese by Thais!

I suggest you read up on your history!!

Incidentally, do you have proof of the statements you make concerning Thais?

No I didnt think so

[kat]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I have read up on my history, quite thoroughly. There are aspects that cannot be discussed here.

I have commented on trafficking/gender exploitation extensively during my time on this forum, and have substantiated all, sometimes to chagrin of others.

I am tired of doing it over and over again. Please feel free to go through my backposts or google information that is readily available online.

Better yet, why don't YOU try to substantiate your claims that I am wrong.

'ta ta.

[SpacemanSpliff]

It would indeed seem reasonable that in any given country, the majority of gangs, criminals and mafia are locals to that country.

Heck, quite a few Farangs must be involved too... I don't think this topic is helped by pointing fingers at any particular group.

[yorkman]

The nutters that Thailand seems to attract join what was a sensible discussion Kat

Ignore eh?

I hope the OP can get through the dross and find their question answered as best as can be done.

Edited December 20, 2007 by yorkman

[kat]

It would indeed seem reasonable that in any given country, the majority of gangs, criminals and mafia are locals to that country.

Heck, quite a few Farangs must be involved too... I don't think this topic is helped by pointing fingers at any particular group.

Thanks for your excellent comments Spaceman. You obviously know what you are talking about.

The nutters that Thailand seems to attract join what was a sensible discussion Kat

Ignore eh?

I hope the OP can get through the dross and find their question answered as best as can be done.

Thanks for the moral support, Yorkman.

[yorkman]

It would indeed seem reasonable that in any given country, the majority of gangs, criminals and mafia are locals to that country.

Heck, quite a few Farangs must be involved too... I don't think this topic is helped by pointing fingers at any particular group.

Ahhh yes, farangs are involved too in the local "Lao" industry. But if they were named this would expose TV to court action, maybe

Check around hippy in BKK (rather too late ) and then lets know how you know.

Cite sources, or proof. I can, can you?

[lawling]

I hope the OP can get through the dross and find their question answered as best as can be done.

I’m indebted to all of you who have taken time and put a lot of thought and effort into responding to my original question.

My apologies if it has led to some differences of opinion but perhaps that was inevitable in such a contentious topic.

As I indicated at the outset, some of my friends in the UK, aware of my affection for Thailand, seem to take satisfaction from pointing out to me what they perceive as its defects – even though most of them have never been to the country!

The much publicised sex industry is naturally a favourite example with them and there is a widespread impression amongst them that the vast majority of Thailand’s sex workers have been taken forcibly from their homes to the fleshpot of Bangkok and Pattaya where they are controlled by mafia type procurers, etc.

For example, one friend described to me in great detail something he had read, about gangs arriving in villages in the middle of the night, rounding up all the young girls and driving off with them before their parents could intervene. When I challenged him on the detail, it emerged that he had read about it in a novel – it was totally fictitious - though the author (I forget now who he was) was a serious and widely respected American writer.

While that tale was easy enough to dismiss, I have nevertheless come across other references to abductions and trafficking, stories, as in the poem I mentioned, about fathers selling their daughters, but, as I said, I had never met anyone with any direct knowledge of such happenings.

It was because of such stories that my concern had originally been about the more dramatic forms of trafficking – kidnap and the almost forcible taking of children away from their homes against their wishes.

I have found the replies, which you have been good enough to provide, to some extent reassuring in relation to that type of trafficking, in that while there may well be isolated cases of abductions and some enforced trafficking especially amongst ethnic minorities, they do not or no longer seem to be widespread. That, as I say, is comforting, though naturally, we would all agree, I’m sure, that even if relatively rare, kidnapping or people trafficking is wrong, regardless of the ethnicity of its victims or perpetrators.

But there are, of course, the much wider issues which some of you have mentioned, of the circumstances which lead to young people being forced into the sex industry or near slavery in lowly paid sectors – things like agricultural market distortions caused by protectionism in Europe and the US, the absence of adequate measures to stimulate rural development and alleviate poverty, etc. It would seem that it is insidious factors such as those, rather than the more dramatic events, that are at the root of the people exploitation.

Such an appreciation of the reality of the situation will, I’m sure, enable me to respond to those who would dramatise Thailand’s failings.

Many thank for your insights.

[JetsetBkk]

She actually looked at me like I had lost the plot a bit at first, and then said maybe, but she had not heard of it for years.

If it's happening, then as suggested above, it must be well underground.

Perhaps you could ask her to comment on this newspaper article: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30032123

Will do, wait until she has stopped nattering outside with her 2 gossip mates!

Swiftly bypassing the above...

Okies, here's what I got, make of it what you will (by the way this is input from all 3 of the above mentioned) 2 are teachers and one is Udon Chief Prosecutors wife. Thats not to say they know everything (of course they claim they do ) but just that they are not sat at home making Somtam all day, out in the community and all that good stuff.

The first question went along the lines of "well how many kids go missing in the UK every year?". I said "100's I think" Pitying look at the falang, thanks.

There was a comment and a bit of laughter about proclamations from Government departments. Given that 2 of them know what the Government say is going into education, and what actually turns up on the ground, I think you can excuse a bit of cynicism here. "Keep them looking busy man if they get say in paper" was one comment in Tinglish.

So onto the 2 boys, no comment there really apart from maybe yaba boys maybe true. So, dunno.

Having said that, they buzzed of into the kitchen, a bit more natter, came back and brought me a beer (bless) and there was this:

A girl went missing 3 or so years ago from wifey's cronies school. It only got reported because she had not turned up for school for 2 weeks, so the school asked the parents and they then reported her, ahem, missing. It would not take Sherlock Holmes to work out that she is probably in a more southern place

AND.. to add to the above. One lady in a village not far away sold her baby to a couple from Jomtien. She was/is very poor, husband has strayed, and the couple could not have kids. Mutual arrangement, legal adoption and all that.

Thanks for taking the trouble to ask your wife and her friends about this - great response! (Love the comment in 'Tinglish' - not too different from some of my home country's politicians... )

[LivinLOS]

To all those who claim this doesnt happen in Thailand or the extreme moral outrage that would happen (get shot for talking about it) I wonder where it is you live..

Friend of my GF.. Sold by her mother at 15 (or 14 cant remember) into a Thai brothel situation.. After a couple of years of captivity and hellish life a Thai guy arranged to buy her out of it, she had a kid with him and tried to settle down. Then the mother in law, knowing she was from a brothel and 'damaged goods' stole the kid from her and influenced the son to break up.. She has never seen the kid again and Thai police just laughed at her when she tried to get it back, basically she has no rights as she was low class etc. The loss of her kid is something that still has her head messed up.

She then did the pattaya, bar trade circuit, we knew her in phuket, and she was a popular (attractive) girl who had quite a few well off suitors.. Last I heard she was living in Southern Europe with a really nice young guy (she only like the 20's farangs) who was training at uni to be a Doctor and from a wealthy family.. Hope shes happy after the hel_l she suffered so far.

Wifeys family would have sold her if they thought she had any value.. Instead they just abandoned her.

[SpacemanSpliff]

It would indeed seem reasonable that in any given country, the majority of gangs, criminals and mafia are locals to that country.<br /><br />Heck, quite a few Farangs must be involved too... I don't think this topic is helped by pointing fingers at any particular group.

Ahhh yes, farangs are involved too in the local "Lao" industry.

No, some are involved in trafficking Russian/Eastern European women to Thailand and the region, and Thai girls out to the Middle East, Korea, Europe, etc.

But if they were named this would expose TV to court action, maybe

Check around hippy in BKK (rather too late ) and then lets know how you know. Cite sources, or proof. I can, can you?

Sorry but I actually don't understand what you're on about. Unless I am actually the first person to bring to your attention the Russian gangs trafficking women IN, and criminals of just about any nation trafficking Thais out to go work in brothels and massage parlours and the like? I don't really understand your post but you can't be disputing this, right?

[yorkman]

I hope the OP can get through the dross and find their question answered as best as can be done.

Such an appreciation of the reality of the situation will, I’m sure, enable me to respond to those who would dramatise Thailand’s failings.

I doubt you can convince but good luck

People often want to believe and talk about the sensational, but when you get down to it, how often is is based on "my mate told me" or ""I read somewhere" ?

It's SE Asia. But if you compare it (just the neighbours) with Cambodia's recent past, Myanmar's present situation, and what is allegedly still happening in some parts of Laos, its a haven of peace and normality!

[DP25]

@lawling

No, it does not happen to any large degree, at least not to any degree larger than any other country. The reporting of it in Western media is largely a case of mass hysteria. It's very similar to the cases of Satanic ritual abuse that were reported in back in the 80s, or the cases of pre school child sex rings that caused panic in the US in the 90s. Meaning, it doesn't really exist, yet the media in the 80s claimed that up to 50,000 children per year in the US were raped by satanic cults, yet not a single case was ever found. Many other countries, especially developing ones, have similar cases of myths that result in moral panic. Earlier this year in Thailand, there was mass hysteria when there were hundreds of reports of white vans abducting children so they could harvest their organs and sell them on the international market to foreigners. Not a single case was ever found, yet the stories persisted for months and spread around the country. Many other countries, notably Brazil, have had the same stories spread through the country and cause havoc as well. The main problem with Thailand is that these myths are not able to be exposed on the international media, so they persist. Most international 'journalists' reporting on Thailand are doing no more investigation than listening to rumours from some dude on a bar stool drinking beer in Suhkumvit. Feel confident in telling your friends that they are full of it when talk about 'abductions' in Thailand.

[tijnebijn]

To all those who claim this doesnt happen in Thailand or the extreme moral outrage that would happen (get shot for talking about it) I wonder where it is you live..

Friend of my GF.. Sold by her mother at 15 (or 14 cant remember) into a Thai brothel situation.. After a couple of years of captivity and hellish life a Thai guy arranged to buy her out of it, she had a kid with him and tried to settle down. Then the mother in law, knowing she was from a brothel and 'damaged goods' stole the kid from her and influenced the son to break up.. She has never seen the kid again and Thai police just laughed at her when she tried to get it back, basically she has no rights as she was low class etc. The loss of her kid is something that still has her head messed up.

She then did the pattaya, bar trade circuit, we knew her in phuket, and she was a popular (attractive) girl who had quite a few well off suitors.. Last I heard she was living in Southern Europe with a really nice young guy (she only like the 20's farangs) who was training at uni to be a Doctor and from a wealthy family.. Hope shes happy after the hel_l she suffered so far.

Wifeys family would have sold her if they thought she had any value.. Instead they just abandoned her.

I do not disagree with you , but that your story was very common many years ago .

I have had many conversations with Thais ( or gon Mueang ) about this happening , it did ,

but is now much much rarer .

The reasons are better education , less poverty , and the knowledge what is really going

to happen with their children , it is well known now . At least that impression I have .

For example in the village where I have my home , 15 years ago there was no electricity no

roads etc etc so very remote , now there is a 4 lane highway straight from Chiang mai .

So things have changed . I have no doubt that it is still happening but like I said probably

even more far and remote where the people are still naive and live in deep poverty (mostly hilltribes).

Nonetheless it is a very very horrifying practise and feel sorry for those who it has happened too, or

still is ....