bulmercke Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 They are setting some pre-conditions that are not exactly in step with PPP's stance....Conditions set if parties join PPP The Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance last night issued five conditions for joining a coalition government. The conditions appeared to be directed at the People Power Party (PPP), which is trying to gather support from smaller political parties in its bid to form a coalition government. The PPP so far has secured a coalition of 254 election winners with the inclusion of three smaller parties. Chart Thai and Puea Pandin have formed an alliance to negotiate for better offers in becoming part of a coalition government. Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa, his Puea Pandin counterpart Suwit Khunkitti, and Puea Pandin's chief adviser Vatana Asavahame yesterday called a press conference after a working dinner. They said any coalition leader they would join must agree to their conditions: reverence for the monarchy, respect for Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, no revenge against political foes, no interference into the judicial process against ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, and no dissolution of the Assets Examination Committee. "We can work with any political party that accepts these conditions," Banharn said. He said these conditions had not been proposed to the People Power Party. "We have just made public our conditions and we welcome it if the PPP accepts them," he said, adding he expected the PPP to approach his alliance. There is no deadline for these conditions, he said. Asked why the conditions did not include the possible amnesty to the 111 banned executives of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, Banharn said the alliance had not discussed the matter. "We haven't gone that far. That's an individual matter. We focused on security matters," Banharn said. Before the dinner, Vatana, who earlier opposed the idea of joining a PPP-led coalition, had softened his stance. "I have no prejudice against any party. Our stance is reconciliation. We will join any party that can accept our party's policies," he said. - The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) They are setting some pre-conditions that are not exactly in step with PPP's stance....Conditions set if parties join PPP The Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance last night issued five conditions for joining a coalition government. The conditions appeared to be directed at the People Power Party (PPP), which is trying to gather support from smaller political parties in its bid to form a coalition government. The PPP so far has secured a coalition of 254 election winners with the inclusion of three smaller parties. Chart Thai and Puea Pandin have formed an alliance to negotiate for better offers in becoming part of a coalition government. Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa, his Puea Pandin counterpart Suwit Khunkitti, and Puea Pandin's chief adviser Vatana Asavahame yesterday called a press conference after a working dinner. They said any coalition leader they would join must agree to their conditions: reverence for the monarchy, respect for Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, no revenge against political foes, no interference into the judicial process against ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, and no dissolution of the Assets Examination Committee. "We can work with any political party that accepts these conditions," Banharn said. He said these conditions had not been proposed to the People Power Party. "We have just made public our conditions and we welcome it if the PPP accepts them," he said, adding he expected the PPP to approach his alliance. There is no deadline for these conditions, he said. Asked why the conditions did not include the possible amnesty to the 111 banned executives of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, Banharn said the alliance had not discussed the matter. "We haven't gone that far. That's an individual matter. We focused on security matters," Banharn said. Before the dinner, Vatana, who earlier opposed the idea of joining a PPP-led coalition, had softened his stance. "I have no prejudice against any party. Our stance is reconciliation. We will join any party that can accept our party's policies," he said. - The Nation Has ANY polititian said that perhaps when we get a new government off the ground- we might spend a few minutes discussing the legality of last year's armed seizure of the national government- and maybe set up a little working group to brainstorm how such bumps on the road to political maturity might be avoided in the future? Edited December 28, 2007 by blaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Chart Thai and Pua Paendin parties outline terms for coalition membership Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha accompanied by Pua Paendin leader Suwit Khunkitti (สุวิทย์ คุณกิตติ) and Pua Paendin Chairman Wattana Assavahaem (วัฒนา อัศวเหม) conducted a press conference to outline the two parties’ conditions for joining coalition governments. The two parties affirmed they hold to the same values and would not join coalitions assembled by either the People’s Power Party or the Democrat party if their terms were not met. The 5 conditions include the honoring of His Majesty the King as well as not interfering with Privy Councilor General Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), the guarantee to not disband the Assets Examination Committee, the assurance ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra must face legal charges and also the annullment of all vendettas and reprisals. The two parties said they would await response from the People’s Power Party while affirming their solidarity. Mr. Suwit also commented that his party was not approached by members of the People’s Power Party to negotiate incentives to join a coalition government. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 December 2007 These conditions actually contain something nasty. ie to accept them as most are specultaing PPP will is to tacitly admit that previously TRT or PPP were lets say not entirely onboard with what is included in the conditions. Ill not be surprised if some PPP people react a bit to these conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Chart Thai and Pua Paendin parties outline terms for coalition membership Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha accompanied by Pua Paendin leader Suwit Khunkitti (สุวิทย์ คุณกิตติ) and Pua Paendin Chairman Wattana Assavahaem (วัฒนา อัศวเหม) conducted a press conference to outline the two parties’ conditions for joining coalition governments. The two parties affirmed they hold to the same values and would not join coalitions assembled by either the People’s Power Party or the Democrat party if their terms were not met. The 5 conditions include the honoring of His Majesty the King as well as not interfering with Privy Councilor General Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), the guarantee to not disband the Assets Examination Committee, the assurance ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra must face legal charges and also the annullment of all vendettas and reprisals. The two parties said they would await response from the People’s Power Party while affirming their solidarity. Mr. Suwit also commented that his party was not approached by members of the People’s Power Party to negotiate incentives to join a coalition government. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 December 2007 These conditions actually contain something nasty. ie to accept them as most are specultaing PPP will is to tacitly admit that previously TRT or PPP were lets say not entirely onboard with what is included in the conditions. Ill not be surprised if some PPP people react a bit to these conditions. I think you are right Hammered- certainly the annulment clause suggests that any official questioning of the legitimacy/legality of the coup is prohibited- it's kind of like demanding that the PPP acknowledge that the coup was legally, politically, and ethically the right thing to do. Would an audit of the spending by the NLA constitute 'reprisal'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Chart Thai and Pua Paendin parties outline terms for coalition membership Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha accompanied by Pua Paendin leader Suwit Khunkitti (สุวิทย์ คุณกิตติ) and Pua Paendin Chairman Wattana Assavahaem (วัฒนา อัศวเหม) conducted a press conference to outline the two parties’ conditions for joining coalition governments. The two parties affirmed they hold to the same values and would not join coalitions assembled by either the People’s Power Party or the Democrat party if their terms were not met. The 5 conditions include the honoring of His Majesty the King as well as not interfering with Privy Councilor General Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), the guarantee to not disband the Assets Examination Committee, the assurance ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra must face legal charges and also the annullment of all vendettas and reprisals. The two parties said they would await response from the People’s Power Party while affirming their solidarity. Mr. Suwit also commented that his party was not approached by members of the People’s Power Party to negotiate incentives to join a coalition government. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 December 2007 These conditions actually contain something nasty. ie to accept them as most are specultaing PPP will is to tacitly admit that previously TRT or PPP were lets say not entirely onboard with what is included in the conditions. Ill not be surprised if some PPP people react a bit to these conditions. I think you are right Hammered- certainly the annulment clause suggests that any official questioning of the legitimacy/legality of the coup is prohibited- it's kind of like demanding that the PPP acknowledge that the coup was legally, politically, and ethically the right thing to do. Would an audit of the spending by the NLA constitute 'reprisal'? Blaze Im glad u agree I wasnt really sure but it looks like something PPP have to be very careful with after all it is not just about the coup but other people. I would also guess that there is not a lot of trust around at the moment between various groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 They are setting some pre-conditions that are not exactly in step with PPP's stance....Conditions set if parties join PPP The Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance last night issued five conditions for joining a coalition government. The conditions appeared to be directed at the People Power Party (PPP), which is trying to gather support from smaller political parties in its bid to form a coalition government. The PPP so far has secured a coalition of 254 election winners with the inclusion of three smaller parties. Chart Thai and Puea Pandin have formed an alliance to negotiate for better offers in becoming part of a coalition government. Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa, his Puea Pandin counterpart Suwit Khunkitti, and Puea Pandin's chief adviser Vatana Asavahame yesterday called a press conference after a working dinner. They said any coalition leader they would join must agree to their conditions: reverence for the monarchy, respect for Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, no revenge against political foes, no interference into the judicial process against ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, and no dissolution of the Assets Examination Committee. "We can work with any political party that accepts these conditions," Banharn said. He said these conditions had not been proposed to the People Power Party. "We have just made public our conditions and we welcome it if the PPP accepts them," he said, adding he expected the PPP to approach his alliance. There is no deadline for these conditions, he said. Asked why the conditions did not include the possible amnesty to the 111 banned executives of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party, Banharn said the alliance had not discussed the matter. "We haven't gone that far. That's an individual matter. We focused on security matters," Banharn said. Before the dinner, Vatana, who earlier opposed the idea of joining a PPP-led coalition, had softened his stance. "I have no prejudice against any party. Our stance is reconciliation. We will join any party that can accept our party's policies," he said. - The Nation Has ANY polititian said that perhaps when we get a new government off the ground- we might spend a few minutes discussing the legality of last year's armed seizure of the national government- and maybe set up a little working group to brainstorm how such bumps on the road to political maturity might be avoided in the future? No of course not but you can bet your bottom dollar that plenty on both sides are talking when the next bump occurs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Chart Thai and Pua Paendin parties outline terms for coalition membership Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha accompanied by Pua Paendin leader Suwit Khunkitti (สุวิทย์ คุณกิตติ) and Pua Paendin Chairman Wattana Assavahaem (วัฒนา อัศวเหม) conducted a press conference to outline the two parties’ conditions for joining coalition governments. The two parties affirmed they hold to the same values and would not join coalitions assembled by either the People’s Power Party or the Democrat party if their terms were not met. The 5 conditions include the honoring of His Majesty the King as well as not interfering with Privy Councilor General Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), the guarantee to not disband the Assets Examination Committee, the assurance ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra must face legal charges and also the annullment of all vendettas and reprisals. The two parties said they would await response from the People’s Power Party while affirming their solidarity. Mr. Suwit also commented that his party was not approached by members of the People’s Power Party to negotiate incentives to join a coalition government. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 December 2007 These conditions actually contain something nasty. ie to accept them as most are specultaing PPP will is to tacitly admit that previously TRT or PPP were lets say not entirely onboard with what is included in the conditions. Ill not be surprised if some PPP people react a bit to these conditions. I think you are right Hammered- certainly the annulment clause suggests that any official questioning of the legitimacy/legality of the coup is prohibited- it's kind of like demanding that the PPP acknowledge that the coup was legally, politically, and ethically the right thing to do. Would an audit of the spending by the NLA constitute 'reprisal'? Blaze Im glad u agree I wasnt really sure but it looks like something PPP have to be very careful with after all it is not just about the coup but other people. I would also guess that there is not a lot of trust around at the moment between various groups. I guess I just don't understand why the PPP doesn't reject any party making substantive demands- particularly ones regarding the CNS and NLA--- just back off- let the Dems have it. Who ever gets it is getting a white elephant anyway. And maybe it's just me- but having Banharn on your team certainly doesn't cast you in the light of a reformer. Also- the Dems could stand a better chance of ammending the constitution than the PPP- for them to even suggest it- boom- the senate gavel comes down. I mean- if I were a PPP supporter- I'd be saying that some principles are sacred- but then--- oh it's all enough to make a guy very cynicial- moreso in the last week than at any time during the coup and build up to the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Chart Thai and Pua Paendin parties outline terms for coalition membership Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha accompanied by Pua Paendin leader Suwit Khunkitti (สุวิทย์ คุณกิตติ) and Pua Paendin Chairman Wattana Assavahaem (วัฒนา อัศวเหม) conducted a press conference to outline the two parties’ conditions for joining coalition governments. The two parties affirmed they hold to the same values and would not join coalitions assembled by either the People’s Power Party or the Democrat party if their terms were not met. The 5 conditions include the honoring of His Majesty the King as well as not interfering with Privy Councilor General Prem Tinsulanont (เปรม ติณสูลานนท์), the guarantee to not disband the Assets Examination Committee, the assurance ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra must face legal charges and also the annullment of all vendettas and reprisals. The two parties said they would await response from the People’s Power Party while affirming their solidarity. Mr. Suwit also commented that his party was not approached by members of the People’s Power Party to negotiate incentives to join a coalition government. Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 December 2007 These conditions actually contain something nasty. ie to accept them as most are specultaing PPP will is to tacitly admit that previously TRT or PPP were lets say not entirely onboard with what is included in the conditions. Ill not be surprised if some PPP people react a bit to these conditions. I think you are right Hammered- certainly the annulment clause suggests that any official questioning of the legitimacy/legality of the coup is prohibited- it's kind of like demanding that the PPP acknowledge that the coup was legally, politically, and ethically the right thing to do. Would an audit of the spending by the NLA constitute 'reprisal'? Blaze Im glad u agree I wasnt really sure but it looks like something PPP have to be very careful with after all it is not just about the coup but other people. I would also guess that there is not a lot of trust around at the moment between various groups. I guess I just don't understand why the PPP doesn't reject any party making substantive demands- particularly ones regarding the CNS and NLA--- just back off- let the Dems have it. Who ever gets it is getting a white elephant anyway. And maybe it's just me- but having Banharn on your team certainly doesn't cast you in the light of a reformer. Also- the Dems could stand a better chance of ammending the constitution than the PPP- for them to even suggest it- boom- the senate gavel comes down. I mean- if I were a PPP supporter- I'd be saying that some principles are sacred- but then--- oh it's all enough to make a guy very cynicial- moreso in the last week than at any time during the coup and build up to the elections. Blaze it looks to me like a ver tense game. PPP dont seem to trust anyone and seem to half expect to be back stabbed. The Dems are only in a "well if it all falls apart situation" and may also prefer opposition. PPP probably need powwer right now. As I said a whle ago if anyone really wanted what is best for the country a PPP-Dem coalition with none of th etosser parties woudl be the answer. Howeevr...... Be cynical some well odd deal will come form all this. imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 PPP leader denies to comment on 5 conditions People’s Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej has denied giving any comments on the Chart Thai and Pua Paendin declaration of 5 conditions they need met to join his party’s coalition. Samak stated that he has yet prepared to comment on the matter. With the holidays, CAT phone connections to Hong Kong must be jammed up. Try Skype, Samak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 From MCOT Thaksin blows top on anti-monarchy perception http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=2027 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 From MCOTThaksin blows top on anti-monarchy perception http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=2027 "PPP spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang... said the issues of the monarch and respect to Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, another point in the condition, should not be tabled for a political negotiation since "it could create the misunderstanding that the PPP is a troublemaker as far as these issues are concerned." " He's right too. Those little putas are really pushing their luck. Either that or they know their holding all the aces- but if not- back to the bar girls. No colas for you. (ok - a few mixed metaphors but you get my drift). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 If a square-head blows its top, does it affect the trajectory of the contents in comparison to someone with a normal cranium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 From MCOTThaksin blows top on anti-monarchy perception http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=2027 "PPP spokesman Kuthep Saikrachang... said the issues of the monarch and respect to Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, another point in the condition, should not be tabled for a political negotiation since "it could create the misunderstanding that the PPP is a troublemaker as far as these issues are concerned." " He's right too. Those little putas are really pushing their luck. Either that or they know their holding all the aces- but if not- back to the bar girls. No colas for you. (ok - a few mixed metaphors but you get my drift). I think maybe not everyone wil have a happy new year. I havent got a clue what games are being played and i doubt even better analysts than us dont too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 PPP: CNS revenge not on the agenda(BangkokPost.com) – Deputy leader of the People Power party (PPP) has quashed rumours that it plans to seek revenge on the Council for National Security (CNS) if it is able to form a new coalition government. Interesting that it is never Samak who denies that PPP will be out for revenge on the leaders of the coup. Only a cynic might suggest that this is because he knows that his boss Mr Thaksin Shinawatra (see below) intends to do exactly that - and the later denials will be easier if it is some lower-rank who turns out to have lied. Could Samak actually have scruples concerning what he knows may shortly happen ? General Ruengrote Mahaslanol said the party’s three main objectives right now are to solve the country’s economic problems, to maintain national security and to form a strong government. Nothing about national reconciliation, which is so clearly needed, with a 50-50 split in the PPP/Democrats proportional vote ? And how to form a strong government, when you are struggling even to put together a weak coalition, as PPP so clearly now are. A cosy deal with the military perhaps ? “We have yet to decide who will be appointed to which ministry,” he said. “Let me also stress that in the event that the PPP gets to lead the new coalition government, getting even with the CNS will not be on the government’s agenda. We have already discussed this with Mr Thaksin Shinawatra and we all agree that the PPP’s main policy has always been to encourage national reconciliation.” So the PPP's 'main policy' isn't now one of the party's three main objectives - I fear that the voters may have been misled. more: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124722 I guess they want everyone to be absolutely sure Thaksin is running the PPP and in violation of the EC and tribunal ruling. I don’t know if this is arrogance or just total stupidity to say this implying Thaksin is running things. Also not to forget if Thaksin says no revenge it means revenge. So much for having decided to permanently quit Thai politics, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) How can PPP agree to allowing Thaksin to be prosecuted? Maybe this isn't over. The PPP need acopuple of Thaksin trials going to completion as much as anybody. If they try to make all the trials go away there will street demos again and they will likely see their coalition allies walk or a coup. Of course the PPP will behind the scenes try to make sure 80% of the cases are dropped and a load of mostly not guilties arrived at especially against the kids and there will probably be one or two guitly of technical thingies resulting in some fines. Oh plus a mass unfreezing of assets. Net result is Mr. T ends up paying a few fines and is guilty of a couple of lesser things, gets most of his dosh back and is not guitly of the big things. He can then of course appeal the things for a bunch of years and maybe later get them all overturned and in the meantime cant be directly invovled in politics although of course behind the scenes. That secanario is probably a trade off everyone can live with. Of course it will never be about justice or anything silly like that. Although all deals are off if PPP go after the generals. Interesting that the giant eel sets no (obvious or direct) interference with the Thaksin trial as one of the conditions fpor joining a PPP coalition. It is unlikely he would have set that unless he was sure they would accept it, which brings us back to PPP and of course Tahksin need a trial or two for their own reasons. I think many under estimate the genuine dislike that developed, pre coup against Thaksin and the now banned TRT, due to these several of these uncovered abuses of power. ( pre coup period ) Now i,ve lost count on the addition ones that will have multiplied their anger and distrust of a once revered party and individuals. ( not of a religious connotation either ) not to say the least of all, their CEO in exile. Alledged, of course until they go to court to be proved one way or the other. They will never allow him to get off with any of the more serious cases, ( these form the majority of them ) while possibly lettting the minor ones await the outcome of the 80% the PPP will want dropping. Of course the usual delaying tactics and legalese will be employed in an attempt to put them permanently out of sight and non appearances to answer the allegations ect. ect. While this is not unusual within Thai culture, i do not think it will be free of repress this time around. ( Thaksin and his ilk will also be unable to regain their positions and standing ect. until they are addressed ) These are very serious issues and if unity is to be achieved they have got to be addressed in the only way that is acceptable and worthy of all Thai citizens who are living in the 21st century as apposed to the last one. In front of a legally proven, neutrally elected and unbiased court of knowledgable lawyers / judges with intellect to compliment their judicial wisdom, along with the much needed ethics of course. The 17 million plus voters who registered their vote expect and deserve the truth to established one way or the other. Sadly i cannot see justice being served and the consequences will be there for all to witness, on the streets of Bangkok, along with Thai creditablity within the international community, both in commerce and governance. No, in this Thaksin induced scenario i think the situation is being underplayed / valued from a social aspect and the bitter feelings that go far deeper than is imagined. Anything less than the above is insulting the integrity of the 17 mill ( + ) opposing voters. marshbags P.S. I read somewhere about the fear of back stabbing among the potential coalition parties, wait until it starts within the cloned TRT party, you aint seen nothing yet and that,s for sure. It won,t be hello dolly.......... goodbye more like, if i may add a pun to the reference on the cloned party. Edited December 28, 2007 by marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Note, as currently being reported in the Nation about the 5 points: "Two top executives of Chart Thai Party Friday toned down a five-point demand, saying it was meant as the working guidelines and not a precondition to joining the coalition alliance led by the People Power Party." It looks like they are backing off of these 5 pre conditions of joining the PPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi101 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I understand you very well, but it is the choices which are missing here.What choice does the majority have, who is their real representand, their honest man ?!?!?! Mr. T. had the chance once he was in power to do good and a piece of meaningful work for the sake of this country, well we know what came along. The Army had the chance over the last year to implement symphatie, maybe - if they thought it to be important - to setup and strengthen the Democrats for the election (money well spend for their campaign - well they didn't). And now you want to give the fault to the people ?!?! Where in my post do i directly put the blame on the " people " Many although fed up and didn't want to vote - just did their duty. The ones who genuinely wanted a better future, did their duty honourably, unfortunately there were many in my neck of Isaan didn,t give a dam_n about what the PPP policies meant to the country, as a whole, in relation to uniting society, ect. ect. ect. Easy money was their incentive and being able to continue there present lifestyles of easy loans, without collateral to cover them, spent on materialistic things and in doing so squandering the countries well earned assets and the taxes of those honest enough to pay it from their hard earned incomes. ( I,m not talking all Isaan citizens relating to the negatives either, before someone jumps in. ) I feel confident that this was the case in many other parts as well, but perhaps others will either agree or, if not, offer their experiences to the contrary But what choice if you have no real alternative ............... start on the top again. marshbags Relax, I like your postings, my point is just - we are living in wicketed times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxi101 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I've asked many Thais who reluctantly voted for the pro-coup Democrat Party if they would support another coup if Thaksin were to return as PM. All of them said they prefer Thaksin to another coup. The Generals have done enough damage to the economy and to the democracy. It really is a shame that the Democrats couldn't have at least pretended to be pro-democracy and come out vociferously against the military takeover; they would have won so easily in the election. ....yep one reason more they don't deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshbags Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I understand you very well, but it is the choices which are missing here.What choice does the majority have, who is their real representand, their honest man ?!?!?! Mr. T. had the chance once he was in power to do good and a piece of meaningful work for the sake of this country, well we know what came along. The Army had the chance over the last year to implement symphatie, maybe - if they thought it to be important - to setup and strengthen the Democrats for the election (money well spend for their campaign - well they didn't). And now you want to give the fault to the people ?!?! Where in my post do i directly put the blame on the " people " Many although fed up and didn't want to vote - just did their duty. The ones who genuinely wanted a better future, did their duty honourably, unfortunately there were many in my neck of Isaan didn,t give a dam_n about what the PPP policies meant to the country, as a whole, in relation to uniting society, ect. ect. ect. Easy money was their incentive and being able to continue there present lifestyles of easy loans, without collateral to cover them, spent on materialistic things and in doing so squandering the countries well earned assets and the taxes of those honest enough to pay it from their hard earned incomes. ( I,m not talking all Isaan citizens relating to the negatives either, before someone jumps in. ) I feel confident that this was the case in many other parts as well, but perhaps others will either agree or, if not, offer their experiences to the contrary But what choice if you have no real alternative ............... start on the top again. marshbags Relax, I like your postings, my point is just - we are living in wicketed times Thanks for the comment Maxi, and i totally agree, we really are living in wicked ( as in bad and not the humerous slang version ) times, not only in Thailand but world wide. All i want is a simple, secure and peaceful life for my family and their loved ones. A fairer society in general would also be welcomed for all deserving Thai citizens. Amen to that. marshbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Note, as currently being reported in the Nation about the 5 points:"Two top executives of Chart Thai Party Friday toned down a five-point demand, saying it was meant as the working guidelines and not a precondition to joining the coalition alliance led by the People Power Party." It looks like they are backing off of these 5 pre conditions of joining the PPP. ...but they are still being vague enough about any specifics that they could actually only be meaning to say drop the first condition entirely, and do so without capitulating on any of the others, and yet still portray it as "unity-seeking" effort. Doing so would not effectively change their stance. Edited December 28, 2007 by sriracha john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 But now, all bets are off with this latest.... PPP rejects smaller parties' pre-conditions for joining coalition government BANGKOK) -- The People Power Party (PPP), which won Thailand's post-coup general election, on Friday rejected the five pre-conditions raised by two smaller parties for joining a PPP-led coalition government. PPP spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee told journalists that his party rejected the five pre-conditions raised by the two-party alliance of Chart Thai (Thai Nation) and Puea Pandin (For the Motherland) parties for joining a coalition government led by PPP, calling the pre-conditions a contempt of the country's existing political system. Surapong was responding to the remarks by the Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha on Thursday that the PPP could take the Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance's five pre-conditions for discussion with Thailand's ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to whom the PPP openly supports. The five preconditions are the reverence of the monarchy; refraining from disrespecting General Prem Tinsulanonda, President of the Privy Council; no reprisals; Thaksin's return to face due legal process on corruption charges and no meddling with agencies such as the Assets Examination Committee. Surapong said the issues like respect to the monarchy is a guideline which the PPP has upheld, and should not be included in the negotiations between the PPP and other parties that are aimed at forming a coalition government. On Friday, Noppadol Pattama, Thaksin's legal adviser, said PPP leader Samak Sundaravej and Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee would make the decision on which parties to include in the coalition, without having to discuss with the former premier. - Xinhua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 But now, all bets are off with this latest....PPP rejects smaller parties' pre-conditions for joining coalition government BANGKOK) -- The People Power Party (PPP), which won Thailand's post-coup general election, on Friday rejected the five pre-conditions raised by two smaller parties for joining a PPP-led coalition government. PPP spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee told journalists that his party rejected the five pre-conditions raised by the two-party alliance of Chart Thai (Thai Nation) and Puea Pandin (For the Motherland) parties for joining a coalition government led by PPP, calling the pre-conditions a contempt of the country's existing political system. Surapong was responding to the remarks by the Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha on Thursday that the PPP could take the Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance's five pre-conditions for discussion with Thailand's ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to whom the PPP openly supports. The five preconditions are the reverence of the monarchy; refraining from disrespecting General Prem Tinsulanonda, President of the Privy Council; no reprisals; Thaksin's return to face due legal process on corruption charges and no meddling with agencies such as the Assets Examination Committee. Surapong said the issues like respect to the monarchy is a guideline which the PPP has upheld, and should not be included in the negotiations between the PPP and other parties that are aimed at forming a coalition government. On Friday, Noppadol Pattama, Thaksin's legal adviser, said PPP leader Samak Sundaravej and Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee would make the decision on which parties to include in the coalition, without having to discuss with the former premier. - Xinhua This sounds like a principled stance. I hope so- maybe it's simply pragmatic- I suspect so. But IF it is principled- and it could cost PPP the government- then regardless of the specifics- it marks a sea change in Thai politics. (boy, I'm gonna regret this post). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 They are just arguing the wording, they understand each other in principle. PPP needs to bring Thaksin back or he'll withdraw his support. Chart Thai and Co. can't care less, so they set their own conditions. For them the next elections is more important and if they lose their supporters trust by letting Thaksin sneak back in, they are as good as dead. Banharn has a tough choice - his whole legacy is at stake. Pua Paendin, if they have any brains, realise they might end up like all other small parties - unable to stand on their own feet and consigned to oblivion. PPP will eventually agree but try to work behind the scenes, but when they put the pressure on judiciary and bureaucracy, the lid will eventually blow off and the coalition will inevitably collapse without achieving anything. They are screwed - they didn't get the majority, they didn't WIN, they have to obey their coalition partners demands, they have to ovey Thaksin's demands. Caught between the rock and the hard place, self imposed deadlines are approaching and the Democrats are getting louder about setting their own government. The only solution, btw, is for Thaksin to strike a deal with the military and leave PPP out in the cold. I'm sure the generals don't want ALL of his assets, just the taxes and his day in courts, if he can accept that, we will see true reconciliation in the country. I think his wife realises that and hope she can talk some sense into his square head. Apologise, cut the losses, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thaksin needs to go to jail to save his country. Is he man enough? (No.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulmercke Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 But now, all bets are off with this latest....PPP rejects smaller parties' pre-conditions for joining coalition government BANGKOK) -- The People Power Party (PPP), which won Thailand's post-coup general election, on Friday rejected the five pre-conditions raised by two smaller parties for joining a PPP-led coalition government. PPP spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee told journalists that his party rejected the five pre-conditions raised by the two-party alliance of Chart Thai (Thai Nation) and Puea Pandin (For the Motherland) parties for joining a coalition government led by PPP, calling the pre-conditions a contempt of the country's existing political system. Surapong was responding to the remarks by the Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapaarcha on Thursday that the PPP could take the Chart Thai-Puea Pandin alliance's five pre-conditions for discussion with Thailand's ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, to whom the PPP openly supports. The five preconditions are the reverence of the monarchy; refraining from disrespecting General Prem Tinsulanonda, President of the Privy Council; no reprisals; Thaksin's return to face due legal process on corruption charges and no meddling with agencies such as the Assets Examination Committee. Surapong said the issues like respect to the monarchy is a guideline which the PPP has upheld, and should not be included in the negotiations between the PPP and other parties that are aimed at forming a coalition government. On Friday, Noppadol Pattama, Thaksin's legal adviser, said PPP leader Samak Sundaravej and Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee would make the decision on which parties to include in the coalition, without having to discuss with the former premier. - Xinhua This issue like respect to the monarchy seems like a very lame excuse to reject the five preconditions. It seems that afterall - as some earlier posters have pointed out - that these issues the preconditions relate to are afterall on the PPPs agenda and are on the table for implementation once they're in government. Scary. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thaksin needs to go to jail to save his country. Is he man enough? (No.) Clould you perhaps name a political leader who, never having been convicted of a crime, has been 'man enough' as you phrase it, to go to jail? Come to think of it- name any person who has. How would his going to jail 'save the country?". If he is imprisoned- you watch the sparks fly- 'save the country' ---- right. Like Benazir just saved Pakistan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Thaksin needs to go to jail to save his country. Is he man enough? (No.) Clould you perhaps name a political leader who, never having been convicted of a crime, has been 'man enough' as you phrase it, to go to jail? Come to think of it- name any person who has. How would his going to jail 'save the country?". If he is imprisoned- you watch the sparks fly- 'save the country' ---- right. Like Benazir just saved Pakistan. He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited. The only reason he hasn't been convicted is because he is too chicken to face the music. He is, in effect, an international FUGITIVE. If the PPP lets him off scott free, it is to their great shame that they care more about this ONE MAN and his BIG MONEY than their country. The PPP, assuming they will form the new government, and I think that is probable, could do the one thing that will start the healing, convict Thaksin, put him in jail, and ban him from politics for LIFE. This action would never be accepted if the democrats did this. Only PPP can do it without causing a crisis. Nice try, but Thailand and Pakistan have very little in common. A better comparison is Thaksin to MARCOS. Edited December 28, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muang Nok Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I quite admire Thaksin's tenacity and Samak's bravado and acerbic wit. Wish their governance all the best. My wife's vote was in sync with my astute observation (or my opinion if you so decide to relegate it to that status). Muang Nok Nakhon Pathom Donyaihom Ban Tak Daet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 (edited) Thaksin needs to go to jail to save his country. Is he man enough? (No.) Clould you perhaps name a political leader who, never having been convicted of a crime, has been 'man enough' as you phrase it, to go to jail? Come to think of it- name any person who has. How would his going to jail 'save the country?". If he is imprisoned- you watch the sparks fly- 'save the country' ---- right. Like Benazir just saved Pakistan. He is facing serious charges in Thailand. He can't be extradited. The only reason he hasn't been convicted is because he is too chicken to face the music. He is, in effect, an international FUGITIVE. If the PPP lets him off scott free, it is to their great shame that they care more about this ONE MAN and his BIG MONEY than their country. The PPP, assuming they will form the new government, and I think that is probable, could do the one thing that will start the healing, convict Thaksin, put him in jail, and ban him from politics for LIFE. This action would never be accepted if the democrats did this. Only PPP can do it without causing a crisis. Nice try, but Thailand and Pakistan have very little in common. A better comparison is Thaksin to MARCOS. Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make. Perhaps with the formidable power of the current government, and given the fact that it had and still has a desperate agenda to justify its existance (by demonstrating not just to Thais, but to the world, Thaksin's criminal culpability)- it seemed like legal decisions were being made by the government = but even then, at least nominally- the decsions rested with the courts. If the courts find him guilty and decide that precedent demands he be imprisoned- I for one will support them. And if the PPP intervenes in such a way as to prevent investigation and trial- I will be the first to cry foul. Though- as with every bit of legislature, every committee, and every judicial finding originating with a court veted by the CNS/NLA- ideally, I would like a review- even by those same judges- when the country is returned to the people. For it is the people the law intends to serve- not just the army. Crimes against the people's trust can not go unpunished. Nor can they be selectively prosecuted- according to political agendas. Those who would help themselves to the states coffers deserve prosecution- whether they do so with a popular mandate- or with the mandate ensured by tanks. Edited December 28, 2007 by blaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sriracha john Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Where have the PPP stated that they will let him off scott free?- even they know that is a decision only the courts can make. Where have they stated that? All I've seen is that they rejected the preconditions by Barnhan et al... of which, that was one of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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