Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[Abrak]

Much has been made about the military involvement in Thai politics but little has been said about the negative impact of the involvement of the judicial system in Thai politics.

The EC's issuance of red/yellow cards, the need for a 95% quorum to form parliament could delay a government by several months. The case against PPP could see the plurality of the voting public disenfranchised. More worrying it looks as though all governments are going to be stifled in the courts - with their legitimacy and every move questioned. It doesnt seem to me a one off but more a trend.

I find the prospect of PPP totally uninspiring but it must be better than no government at all.

[Thai at Heart]

Much has been made about the military involvement in Thai politics but little has been said about the negative impact of the involvement of the judicial system in Thai politics.

The EC's issuance of red/yellow cards, the need for a 95% quorum to form parliament could delay a government by several months. The case against PPP could see the plurality of the voting public disenfranchised. More worrying it looks as though all governments are going to be stifled in the courts - with their legitimacy and every move questioned. It doesnt seem to me a one off but more a trend.

I find the prospect of PPP totally uninspiring but it must be better than no government at all.

More worrying is the involvement of a certain person who I hear has a son who is a pretty good shot.

People Power Party Leader Samak Sundaravej led a team of his party candidates into the stadium around 7 a.m., which included veteran politician, Chalerm Yoobamrung, Yuranan Phamornmontree, a renowned actor and former member of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai party,

[Jai Dee]

Udon Thani Provincial EC ready for by-election

The Udon Thani Provincial Election Commission (EC) is all set to hold the by-election after eight yellow cards have been issued the People Power Party's Member of Parliament (MP) candidates representing Constituencies 1, 2 and 3 of the province.

The Udon Thani Provincial EC member, 2nd Lt. Dusit Phromsit (ดุสิต พรหมสิทธิ์), says his provincial commission is 100-percent ready to organize the by-election, but it has to wait for the central EC to announce its by-election date. He says all personnel and equipments have been prepared, and the same team that managed the previous election will oversee the by-election.

In the meantime, there have been no political movements to pressure the EC members in Udon Thani, but the MP candidates are holding talks with their election canvassers once again as the by-election is approaching.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2008

[Jai Dee]

Subdued atmosphere at Chart Thai office

The Chart Thai Party's head office is still inactive today (January 8th) after the Election Commission (EC) issued red cards to two of its Member of Parliament (MP) candidates representing Constituency 1 of Chai Nat province yesterday.

The two red-carded Chart Thai's MP candidates are Mr. Monthien Songpracha (มณเฑียร สงฆ์ประชา) and Mrs. Nantana Songpracha (นันทนา สงฆ์ประชา). Prior to the issuance, the EC found a videotape containing clips of their election canvassers buying votes from the local people in Chai Nat province.

However, the atmosphere at the Chart Thai’s head office today is generally quiet, and its party leader, Mr. Banharn Silpa-archa (บรรหาร ศิลปอาชา), has not come to work at the office yet.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2008

[Plus]

Much has been made about the military involvement in Thai politics but little has been said about the negative impact of the involvement of the judicial system in Thai politics.

The EC's issuance of red/yellow cards, the need for a 95% quorum to form parliament could delay a government by several months. The case against PPP could see the plurality of the voting public disenfranchised. More worrying it looks as though all governments are going to be stifled in the courts - with their legitimacy and every move questioned. It doesnt seem to me a one off but more a trend.

I don't think there had been a single problem in BT era.

Now we have government passing illegal laws, holding illegal elections, parlament passing laws that can't even pass a spell-checker adn what not.

Elections are too important to be let governed by the rule of the jungle. If they can't manage without cheating, too bad, but they have to start somewhere.

[Jai Dee]

Matchima Thipataya MP candidate disqualified

Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum (สดศรี สัตยธรรม) discloses that a meeting between the Election Commission (EC) today has voted four to one for the disqualification of a winning MP candidate from the Matchima Thipataya party.

The red-carded candidate is Sunthorn Wilawan (สุนทร วิลาวัลย์) who contested the December 23 election in Constituency 1, Prachin Buri province.

The meeting will resume in the afternoon to review election complaints including those concerning deputy leader of the People Power party, Yonhyuth Tiyaphairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช). Police have imposed stringent security measures at EC’s office.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2008

[hammered]

I am pleasantly surprised to see the EC dealing harshly with the whore parties. A video tape of Banharn's boys buying votes is indeed a classic. Lets hope it airs on TV. The Matchimapattaya or whatever it is called could end up being in all kinds of trouble as currently Prachai claims to be the leader while some of his ex-feudalistic up country previous buddies claim he has resigned and that they can therefore sign as acting leader or something. Sounds like more of a slam dunk for dissolution than PPP if anyone can get the energy up to put this hideous creation out of its misery. There are in amongst the messes some good things coming out of this election and the dysmal showing followed by the red carding of the whore parties is one of them.

[Siripon]

The members of the public, I believe some may be kamnan and pooyai ban, willing to testify against vote buying by the PPP are brave souls indeed, especially the Buriram folks. They must be fearful of retribution now from angry PPP members and if the PPP form the government who knows what will happen to their careers.

Apparently some have received threatening phone calls already but it's no use as the evidence is on film.

[jumnien]

The members of the public, I believe some may be kamnan and pooyai ban, willing to testify against vote buying by the PPP are brave souls indeed, especially the Buriram folks. They must be fearful of retribution now from angry PPP members and if the PPP form the government who knows what will happen to their careers.

Apparently some have received threatening phone calls already but it's no use as the evidence is on film.

I would hardly describe paid accomplices of a military junta brave!

[Tony Clifton]

There was also footage of Newin Chidchob shown this week, acting as another little emperor, with a queue of "peasants and servants" waing him like he had just come down from heaven, all this going on behind a stage at a major rally, of course. The person who secretly filmed this has balls as he was within 2 or 3 meters of Newin who could clearly be heard incriminating himself all along. It appears it was made by someone who had succeeded in being part of his entourage. This was no 10 second footage, it went on and on. He'll have fun explaining this one in court soon.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[John K]

Just looking back over the last several pages there seems to be some inaccurate information finding it’s way into this thread. So for the sake of clarity I thought I may summarize thing in this post.

Election Commission

The EC was seated about a week before the coup in September 2006. The process involved several people in a pool and the ones that were felt to be bias or had self serving reasons were eliminated. The process was seen to be fair from all sides including the TRT who was in power at that time.

TRT vs the 111 banned

The TRT was dissolved by the Constitutional Tribunal the end of May 2007 for election fraud in the April 2006 election. As a result of that ruling 111 people were banned from politics for 5 years (until June 1, 2012). The other members of the TRT are free to continue in politics.

Constitutional Tribunal

The Constitutional Tribunal is a group of judges that comes together when they are needed. The tribunal consists of judges that are the top judges in each branch of the Thai courts. They are seen as the highest form of law roughly the same as the US Supreme court. The Constructional Tribunal is an independent body that is not under politicians or the military.

Banned 111 former TRT

This group of people is basically a poison pill to any political party/group that touches them.

PPP

The PPP is a political party mostly if not completely made up of former TRT. The PPP seems to be infested with the banned 111 TRT in some way or another. There are several of the banned that have kin in the PPP however for the most part they are not being investigated. The head of the PPP Samak has voiced that he is a proxy of Thaksin who is the #1 banned of the banned 111. That has prompted complaints and a court hearing around January 16, 2008 to see if Samak is a proxy of Thaksin. If that is found to be the case the PPP will be dissolved. It is not known by me if that will result in more people being banned thus increasing the number from 111 to whatever. This will probably result in new elections without the PPP and only the remaining parties from the December 23, 2007 elections will compete.

Red and yellow cards

Red and yellow cards are administered as a form of punishment for not following the election rules and laws. They are administered by the Election Commission to individuals.

A yellow card erases any gains but allows the person to try again and hopefully do it right the next time.

A red card erases any gains plus banns the person for 1 year. There are also some financial penalties involved in the form of reimbursements.

At the moment the EC in investigating several cased in several parties that could result in red or yellow cards.

[jumnien]

Just looking back over the last several pages there seems to be some inaccurate information finding it’s way into this thread. So for the sake of clarity I thought I may summarize thing in this post.

Election Commission

The EC was seated about a week before the coup in September 2006. The process involved several people in a pool and the ones that were felt to be bias or had self serving reasons were eliminated. The process was seen to be fair from all sides including the TRT who was in power at that time.

TRT vs the 111 banned

The TRT was dissolved by the Constitutional Tribunal the end of May 2007 for election fraud in the April 2006 election. As a result of that ruling 111 people were banned from politics for 5 years (until June 1, 2012). The other members of the TRT are free to continue in politics.

Constitutional Tribunal

The Constitutional Tribunal is a group of judges that comes together when they are needed. The tribunal consists of judges that are the top judges in each branch of the Thai courts. They are seen as the highest form of law roughly the same as the US Supreme court. The Constructional Tribunal is an independent body that is not under politicians or the military.

Banned 111 former TRT

This group of people is basically a poison pill to any political party/group that touches them.

PPP

The PPP is a political party mostly if not completely made up of former TRT. The PPP seems to be infested with the banned 111 TRT in some way or another. There are several of the banned that have kin in the PPP however for the most part they are not being investigated. The head of the PPP Samak has voiced that he is a proxy of Thaksin who is the #1 banned of the banned 111. That has prompted complaints and a court hearing around January 16, 2008 to see if Samak is a proxy of Thaksin. If that is found to be the case the PPP will be dissolved. It is not known by me if that will result in more people being banned thus increasing the number from 111 to whatever. This will probably result in new elections without the PPP and only the remaining parties from the December 23, 2007 elections will compete.

Red and yellow cards

Red and yellow cards are administered as a form of punishment for not following the election rules and laws. They are administered by the Election Commission to individuals.

A yellow card erases any gains but allows the person to try again and hopefully do it right the next time.

A red card erases any gains plus banns the person for 1 year. There are also some financial penalties involved in the form of reimbursements.

At the moment the EC in investigating several cased in several parties that could result in red or yellow cards.

Excellent translation of the military junta's official press releases. Good job!

[John K]

Just looking back over the last several pages there seems to be some inaccurate information finding it’s way into this thread. So for the sake of clarity I thought I may summarize thing in this post.

Election Commission

The EC was seated about a week before the coup in September 2006. The process involved several people in a pool and the ones that were felt to be bias or had self serving reasons were eliminated. The process was seen to be fair from all sides including the TRT who was in power at that time.

TRT vs the 111 banned

The TRT was dissolved by the Constitutional Tribunal the end of May 2007 for election fraud in the April 2006 election. As a result of that ruling 111 people were banned from politics for 5 years (until June 1, 2012). The other members of the TRT are free to continue in politics.

Constitutional Tribunal

The Constitutional Tribunal is a group of judges that comes together when they are needed. The tribunal consists of judges that are the top judges in each branch of the Thai courts. They are seen as the highest form of law roughly the same as the US Supreme court. The Constructional Tribunal is an independent body that is not under politicians or the military.

Banned 111 former TRT

This group of people is basically a poison pill to any political party/group that touches them.

PPP

The PPP is a political party mostly if not completely made up of former TRT. The PPP seems to be infested with the banned 111 TRT in some way or another. There are several of the banned that have kin in the PPP however for the most part they are not being investigated. The head of the PPP Samak has voiced that he is a proxy of Thaksin who is the #1 banned of the banned 111. That has prompted complaints and a court hearing around January 16, 2008 to see if Samak is a proxy of Thaksin. If that is found to be the case the PPP will be dissolved. It is not known by me if that will result in more people being banned thus increasing the number from 111 to whatever. This will probably result in new elections without the PPP and only the remaining parties from the December 23, 2007 elections will compete.

Red and yellow cards

Red and yellow cards are administered as a form of punishment for not following the election rules and laws. They are administered by the Election Commission to individuals.

A yellow card erases any gains but allows the person to try again and hopefully do it right the next time.

A red card erases any gains plus banns the person for 1 year. There are also some financial penalties involved in the form of reimbursements.

At the moment the EC in investigating several cased in several parties that could result in red or yellow cards.

Excellent translation of the military junta's official press releases. Good job!

I never saw that, but I did see this in bits and pieces over the last 2 years or so. That is why I felt a summary was a good idea for new comers. Can you provide a link to the junta press release, the supplement would be great. Obviously you saw it and accurate un-bias information is very important in this thread.

[soundman]

Excellent translation of the military junta's official press releases. Good job!

I think John K. has done a reasonable un-biased summary.

[Ricardo]

Ricardo - what are you talking about? So the EC gives four yellow cards to PPP and gives one to the Democrats...and that somehow proves they are not biased against the PPP?

Correct. It shows that they are taking action against both main parties.

If they red card 60 PPP and 15 Democrats

Have they ? Not yet. Although they might - if that is the way the evidence pans out.

, and the latter forms a Government because of that then that's 'unbiased'?

The Democrats are a long way from forming a government, especially if they continue to lose candidates, I have said several times that I do expect the PPP to form the next government. Or are you aware of truly massive cheating by the PPP ?

Come on, it's gerrymandering, pure and simple. As clear a case as I've ever seen play out. So why ban Democrats too ?

From the latest case:

Thai election agency disqualifies more winning candidates

BANGKOK -- The Election Commission (EC) of Thailand issued two more red cards and two yellow cards against winning candidates of the Chart Thai Party and the People Power Party (PPP).

The commission said in a statement that two Chart Thai Party winning candidates in Chai Nat Province were disqualified by red cards and two PPP winning candidates in Udon Thani Province were disqualified by yellow cards.

And a 3rd party enters the 'Roll of Dishonour'. Further evidence that the EC is, as PPP-leaders claim, fair & unbiased.

Up to Monday, a total of five red cards were issued to three PPP and two Chart Thai Party candidates, while nine yellow cards were issued to eight PPP and one Democrat Party candidates.

Note that the (mainly PPP) yellow-cards simply have to 're-take' the election, and will probably win, but without cheating this time.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

- Xinhua

The clincher would be if the EC were to ban the PPP, as being merely nominees of the banned (for cheating) Thaksin & TRT, which would hardly be suprising, given the open admissions by Samak and other leaders of PPP, that this is in fact the case.

Nevertheless I don't see any evidence so far, of anything other than normal 'tidying-up' by the EC, of some of the grosser examples of cheating.

And I still hope (against hope ? We shall see) that they will not ban PPP outright, and the fair result, of a weak PPP-coalition government, will stand. Because that is what people voted for. Not a landslide for Samak/PPP/TRT/Thaksin, but an even split of the party-vote, and with the PPP ahead on the candidate-vote, due to the concentration of their vote in the North & North-East.

Matchima Thipataya MP candidate disqualified

Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum (สดศรี สัตยธรรม) discloses that a meeting between the Election Commission (EC) today has voted four to one for the disqualification of a winning MP candidate from the Matchima Thipataya party.

The red-carded candidate is Sunthorn Wilawan (สุนทร วิลาวัลย์) who contested the December 23 election in Constituency 1, Prachin Buri province.

The meeting will resume in the afternoon to review election complaints including those concerning deputy leader of the People Power party, Yonhyuth Tiyaphairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช). Police have imposed stringent security measures at EC’s office.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2008

At the risk of belabouring the point, this is the 4th different party, to receive a red-card from the EC, which all adds to the evidence that this is not some simple-minded jerrymandering of the vote, against the PPP, but shows the EC acting in the fair way the PPP acknowledge, by punishing candidates of whatever party who cheated.

Which IMHO is to be welcomed.

[John K]

Ricardo - what are you talking about? So the EC gives four yellow cards to PPP and gives one to the Democrats...and that somehow proves they are not biased against the PPP?

Correct. It shows that they are taking action against both main parties.

If they red card 60 PPP and 15 Democrats

Have they ? Not yet. Although they might - if that is the way the evidence pans out.

, and the latter forms a Government because of that then that's 'unbiased'?

The Democrats are a long way from forming a government, especially if they continue to lose candidates, I have said several times that I do expect the PPP to form the next government. Or are you aware of truly massive cheating by the PPP ?

Come on, it's gerrymandering, pure and simple. As clear a case as I've ever seen play out. So why ban Democrats too ?

From the latest case:

Thai election agency disqualifies more winning candidates

BANGKOK -- The Election Commission (EC) of Thailand issued two more red cards and two yellow cards against winning candidates of the Chart Thai Party and the People Power Party (PPP).

The commission said in a statement that two Chart Thai Party winning candidates in Chai Nat Province were disqualified by red cards and two PPP winning candidates in Udon Thani Province were disqualified by yellow cards.

And a 3rd party enters the 'Roll of Dishonour'. Further evidence that the EC is, as PPP-leaders claim, fair & unbiased.

Up to Monday, a total of five red cards were issued to three PPP and two Chart Thai Party candidates, while nine yellow cards were issued to eight PPP and one Democrat Party candidates.

Note that the (mainly PPP) yellow-cards simply have to 're-take' the election, and will probably win, but without cheating this time.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

- Xinhua

The clincher would be if the EC were to ban the PPP, as being merely nominees of the banned (for cheating) Thaksin & TRT, which would hardly be suprising, given the open admissions by Samak and other leaders of PPP, that this is in fact the case.

Nevertheless I don't see any evidence so far, of anything other than normal 'tidying-up' by the EC, of some of the grosser examples of cheating.

And I still hope (against hope ? We shall see) that they will not ban PPP outright, and the fair result, of a weak PPP-coalition government, will stand. Because that is what people voted for. Not a landslide for Samak/PPP/TRT/Thaksin, but an even split of the party-vote, and with the PPP ahead on the candidate-vote, due to the concentration of their vote in the North & North-East.

Matchima Thipataya MP candidate disqualified

Election Commissioner Sodsri Satayathum (สดศรี สัตยธรรม) discloses that a meeting between the Election Commission (EC) today has voted four to one for the disqualification of a winning MP candidate from the Matchima Thipataya party.

The red-carded candidate is Sunthorn Wilawan (สุนทร วิลาวัลย์) who contested the December 23 election in Constituency 1, Prachin Buri province.

The meeting will resume in the afternoon to review election complaints including those concerning deputy leader of the People Power party, Yonhyuth Tiyaphairat (ยงยุทธ ติยะไพรัช). Police have imposed stringent security measures at EC’s office.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 January 2008

At the risk of belabouring the point, this is the 4th different party, to receive a red-card from the EC, which all adds to the evidence that this is not some simple-minded jerrymandering of the vote, against the PPP, but shows the EC acting in the fair way the PPP acknowledge, by punishing candidates of whatever party who cheated.

Which IMHO is to be welcomed.

Yes you are correct in that. Despite all the narrow view attempts by some to paint various bodies in a lesser light than they deserve, the facts are continuing to prove the people with narrow views wrong.

[soundman]

I want to ask a question:

Who believes that, as leaders of their respective parties:

Samak personally (or through his canvassers) bought votes.

Aphisit personally (or through his canvassers) bought votes.

Both guilty?

[soundman]

I want to ask another question:

What would the election outcome have been if an individual's vote was not a "given" but a priveledge earned on merits of one's contribution to society? Or having a simple political comprehension test before somebody enters the polling booth.

In other words - a weighting system - negating the power of the "bought" vote & putting it back into the hands of people able to judge issues on their merit & make their vote accordingly.

Not at all palatable, however, maybe the country could form some real policy for forward directional thinking rather than giving everything away for temporary power struggle.

Soundman.

[jackspratt]

I want to ask another question:

What would the election outcome have been if an individual's vote was not a "given" but a priveledge earned on merits of one's contribution to society? Or having a simple political comprehension test before somebody enters the polling booth.

In other words - a weighting system - negating the power of the "bought" vote & putting it back into the hands of people able to judge issues on their merit & make their vote accordingly.

Not at all palatable, however, maybe the country could form some real policy for forward directional thinking rather than giving everything away for temporary power struggle.

Soundman.

Do people really think like this?

Maybe we could apply this "logic" to other democracies such as the UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. All people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

God give us strength.

[John K]

I want to ask a question:

Who believes that, as leaders of their respective parties:

Samak personally (or through his canvassers) bought votes.

Aphisit personally (or through his canvassers) bought votes.

Both guilty?

A very good question. I think the best way to answer this is think of the party leaders as fathers. The people in the party are their grown children. The father teaches core examples as to what is right and wrong and his children learn from them.

However because the children are grown, the father can’t take responsibility for their actions. If the child commits a crime the face of the whole family suffers.

As a father Aphisit comes across with high moral end ethical values. He has also stated he will support any decision the EC makes about the democrats.

As for Samak as a father, he comes across as a hardened criminal who could care less about laws and rules.

In short I think each person is responsible for their own actions. Some go further over the line than others, and some not a all. Seeing red, yellow or no cards supports that. It all depends on what their father encourages and teaches contributed to the number of cards issued for a given family.

Edited January 8, 2008 by John K

[John K]

ELECTION

EC ruling may start meltdown for PPP

Party deputy Yongyuth facing fraud charges fears outcome

The Election Commission is expected to rule today on an electoral fraud case involving People Power Party deputy leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat as a party-list candidate for Zone 1, EC chairman Apichart Sukhagganond said yesterday.

A ruling against him could spark a series of events that could end with the PPP being disbanded, he said.

Should Yongyuth be found to have committed wrongdoing in his capacity as deputy party leader, the case could trigger litigation in the Constitution Court, he said.

In such a scenario, the EC may be "obliged to petition for the party to be disbanded", he said.

He spoke following yesterday's hearing where Yongyuth called 10 witnesses to testify in his defence.

The EC has allowed the defence to examine evidence relating to fraud charges and will hear the testimony of a final defence witness before passing judgement.

The gist of the charges concerns Yongyuth's involvement in offering monetary rewards to village headmen and kamnans in Chiang Rai to sway votes for him and his party.

Under new electoral rules, a political party is accountable for any electoral offence involving party executives.

A group of 20 Yongyuth supporters held a rally in front of EC headquarters to provide him with moral support during a three-hour hearing.

Emerging from the session, Yongyuth said he would not make any comment on the outcome of the case to avoid pressuring the EC.

He did say, however, that his defence holds high stakes as the fate of the PPP could hang in the balance.

"I suspect foul play as the complaint against me was filed on December 21, although the alleged incident happened on October28," he said.

He said the mastermind behind the complaint might be the same invisible hand that is trying to form an alternative coalition.

The Nation

[John K]

ANALYSIS

Pojaman tests the water for Thaksin

Following almost six months of self-exile, Khunying Pojaman Shinawatra has flown in from the cold with several crucial tasks to accomplish during this time of highly volatile politics.

Her first order of business, according to one political observer, is to discourage Samak Sundaravej, the leader of the People Power Party, from taking over as prime minister because a Samak premiership would further deepen political divisions.

Ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra has already talked it over with Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapa-archa over the phone. It appears there is a possibility of People Power agreeing to take a step backwards to let Banharn assume the premiership in order to cool the political temperature.

Second, now that People Power, which is a reincarnation of the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party, has won the election and stands a good chance of forming the next coalition government, Thaksin thought it would be good timing for Pojaman to return to Thailand. Between 2001 and 2006, while Thaksin was holding power, Pojaman played a key behind-the-scenes role in all major political decisions of her husband. She had the final screening of the Cabinet list and most other major appointments.

"The negotiations between the People Power Party and other political allies has been completed. Pojaman will play a major role in deciding the Cabinet line-up," one political source said.

Third, the return of Pojaman signals that the power struggle has entered into the final phase in the Judicial Branch when all the cases against her and Thaksin will be decided. When the courts issue their verdicts, they will determine the outcome of Thaksin's political future.

Thaksin had earlier said he would like to return to Thailand during Songkran in April in order to celebrate New Year's Day of the old Thai calendar in Chiang Mai. Pojaman's return is seen as an overture to pave the way for Thaksin to make a comeback - and to defend his cases in the courts. Would he really dare to return to Thailand?

"Thaksin would like to know the reactions of society over a possibility of his return to the country. He will follow Pojaman's footsteps," the source said.

Fourth, the return of Pojaman could also help boost People Power's popularity in by-elections after the Election Commission recently disqualified several candidates.

Pibhop Dhongchai, an adviser to the Campaign for Popular Democracy, said Pojaman wanted to float a balloon to test the wind as to whether the justice system would be accepted by the people.

He said if a People Power-led coalition abused power to help Thaksin and his wife in the cases, or issued an amnesty for the 111 banned Thai Rak Thai executives, it would definitely face public resistance.

"Thaksin should review himself. As the person who caused the prolonged chaos, he should make a sacrifice by staying in exile forever. If he returns and places the country in turmoil again, society should instead review why it allowed back the one man to destroy the country," he said.

A high-ranking source from the Democrats said Pojaman's return had been well planned.

She has come back in order to boost the confidence of People Power members and those still hesitant over whether to join the government so that everybody gets the message that there is nothing to stop People Power from forming the government, said the source.

It's as if she said, "Here I come", the source said.

Moreover, Thaksin would also like to test the water over the judicial process, which will start its due process against him. Thaksin would be able to have little influence over the courts and investigators, the source said.

The Political Desk The nation

[John K]

It sure sounds like Thaksin has figured out the PPP is going down with all souls aboard less his and he is transferring his flag to another ship. That was one nice big dance with the devil I guess and once again Thaksin stays untouched.

But wait, it seems Thaksin knows full well whatever he touches politically will die. So the next question is the Chart Thai leader smart enough to stay away, or greedy enough to be tempted with Thaksin’s offers. Thaksin’s ego will drive him on completely ignoring everyone and everything leaving a wake of used political bodies behind him in his quest to become PM again.

If this keeps up long enough only the democrats will be left standing.

[soundman]

It sure sounds like Thaksin has figured out the PPP is going down with all souls aboard less his and he is transferring his flag to another ship. That was one nice big dance with the devil I guess and once again Thaksin stays untouched.

But wait, it seems Thaksin knows full well whatever he touches politically will die. So the next question is the Chart Thai leader smart enough to stay away, or greedy enough to be tempted with Thaksin's offers. Thaksin's ego will drive him on completely ignoring everyone and everything leaving a wake of used political bodies behind him in his quest to become PM again.

If this keeps up long enough only the democrats will be left standing.

The Chart Thai Leader lives in a practically impenetrable fortress. Ever been to Suparnburi? From my few visits, infrastructure is more akin to Malaysia. Might as well be a sovereign country. So, even if taxin sinks, Barnharn well surely float, from the wise investment of plowing billions back into his stomping ground (taxin's fatal mistake - forgetting the important hands that fed him).

However, how does Barnharn help taxin if the whole PPP goes down the tubes?

Clutching at straws!

I would give a huge amount of money to see the look on taxin's face when a majority was not attained on Dec 23rd.

As for sending his wife to test the waters, I think that would have been her idea. She is the smarter, more politically astute, socially aware & more conniving of the duo. It is widely rumoured the car bomb attempt was all of her planning.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Tony Clifton]

There was talk on television this evening about smaller party MPs receiving 20 million baht incentives to form a coalition with the PPP. Who has that kind of money and just flew in this morning?

[John K]

It sure sounds like Thaksin has figured out the PPP is going down with all souls aboard less his and he is transferring his flag to another ship. That was one nice big dance with the devil I guess and once again Thaksin stays untouched.

But wait, it seems Thaksin knows full well whatever he touches politically will die. So the next question is the Chart Thai leader smart enough to stay away, or greedy enough to be tempted with Thaksin's offers. Thaksin's ego will drive him on completely ignoring everyone and everything leaving a wake of used political bodies behind him in his quest to become PM again.

If this keeps up long enough only the democrats will be left standing.

The Chart Thai Leader lives in a practically impenetrable fortress. Ever been to Suparnburi? From my few visits, infrastructure is more akin to Malaysia. Might as well be a sovereign country. So, even if taxin sinks, Barnharn well surely float, from the wise investment of plowing billions back into his stomping ground (taxin's fatal mistake - forgetting the important hands that fed him).

However, how does Barnharn help taxin if the whole PPP goes down the tubes?

Clutching at straws!

I would give a huge amount of money to see the look on taxin's face when a majority was not attained on Dec 23rd.

As for sending his wife to test the waters, I think that would have been her idea. She is the smarter, more politically astute, socially aware & more conniving of the duo. It is widely rumoured the car bomb attempt was all of her planning.

Cheers,

Soundman.

The Point is if anyone in politics gets involved with Thaksin or any others from the 111 banned former TRT in a political way directly or indirectly, they and their party will suffer the consequences. It will take a while for the slow learners to figure it out, but eventually they will.

In other news through the rumor mill the PPP may be planning a pig roast.

[Jai Dee]

Supreme Court to review Buriram red card cases on January 11th

The Supreme Court concerning election cases has scheduled a hearing with two People’s Power Party Members of Parliament candidate of Buriram province who were recently red carded by the Election Commission (EC). Mr. Pornchai Srisuriyothin (พรชัย ศรีสุริยันโยธิน) and Mr. Roongrot Thongsri (รุ่งโรจน์ ทองศรี) have contested the red cards issued to them by the EC.

The two MP candidates have asked the court to halt the order and call an emergency hearing on the matter. The order will also halt the EC from calling a by-election for the time being. Lawyers representing the candidates stated that the men were called in by the provincial EC to receive their red cards without being able to contest the orders.

The court has called the men in for the hearing on January 11th.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 January 2008

[Plus]

I want to ask another question:

What would the election outcome have been if an individual's vote was not a "given" but a priveledge earned on merits of one's contribution to society? Or having a simple political comprehension test before somebody enters the polling booth.

In other words - a weighting system ...

Maybe we could apply this "logic" to other democracies such as the UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. All people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

Actually they had this problem hundreds years ago and the solution was to make sure everyone passing through their education system not only learns to read and write but also qualifies to make political choices. It also took them hundreds of years to fully implement this "one person - one vote" system.

Thai educators might have set similar goals but real life lessons in democracy are quite opposite to what the Westerners had in mind. People like Thaksin and his TRT teach you it's perfectly acceptable to lie, cheat and buy your way to get the votes, and, on the voters side, after you got paid for your vote you can demand the EC to provide you with your selected candidate.

>>>>>

Why do people pursue accusations against military meddling with EC (which are not supported even by rumours) and at the same time completely ignore viscous horse trading and jockeying for cabinet positions that is as illegal as vote buying but a lot more damaging to the country?

[hammered]

I want to ask another question:

What would the election outcome have been if an individual's vote was not a "given" but a priveledge earned on merits of one's contribution to society? Or having a simple political comprehension test before somebody enters the polling booth.

In other words - a weighting system - negating the power of the "bought" vote & putting it back into the hands of people able to judge issues on their merit & make their vote accordingly.

Not at all palatable, however, maybe the country could form some real policy for forward directional thinking rather than giving everything away for temporary power struggle.

Soundman.

Do people really think like this?

Maybe we could apply this "logic" to other democracies such as the UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc. All people are equal, but some are more equal than others.

God give us strength.

Of course everyones vote and voice etc should be equal. However, we cannot deny within the world system we all live some are more equal than others certainly in how law applies, ability to influence free speech and ability to manipualte process. And in mnay cases in many countries the power of an individual vote depends on where you live ie swing states, constituancies. However, having said that surely the aim is to reduce this over time to a true utopian paradise where everyone is truly equal in terms of opportunity, legal process...... And then I woke up

Seriously I guess people should be striving for the most equitable society possible within the constraints of any worldwide system. On voting who really cares why people vote one way or another. That is their individual choice. It should be that they are able to hear all the arguements equally and not be influenced or manipulated I guess, but at the end of the day we all make own choices when we vote or as the case may be exercise the democratic right not to vote and everyones vote should be equal. If a lack of education is seen by some as a reason people vote "the wrong way" then why dont they try to improve the educational standards although it remains moot whether this would affect how people vote. Even in developed European countries with long democratic histories people still seem to broadly vote along class lines.

[Plus]

Democracy is the best system only if you agree on what is actually good. If members of society have starkly different views of what is good for the country, democracy will only create unresolvable mess. In Thailand we have one side of the divide giving no thoughts to the good of the whole country whatsoever. I can't predict how this conflict will play out when they actually start thinking about it sometime in the future. Maybe it will mature into left-right, socialism capitalism, or it could be right wing nazists vs libertarians.