Speaking Bad English

[meadish_sweetball]

When I don't speak Thai, I use basic English trying to preserve the grammar, and find it works ok most of the time. I agree with those who say that this will be much better in the long run.

It's especially important with people you meet regularly as you aren't likely to make an impact otherwise.

[mrbojangles]

I strongly believe that it is far less important to speak correctly, than getting yourself understood.

Communication is the goal, not correct vocabulary.

Good point, well made

[h90]

One of the more frustrating times I had dealing with people who did not understand what I said was at McDonalds in California . I mistakenly assumed the staff could speak English. Wrong . As I did not want a set menu combination, but a burger and a drink it was difficult, until I learned to join the line in front of the black girl.

As to Thinglish, I try to speak correct English at first and then try a more simple sentence structure. I try to avoid pidgin but will use it as a last resort if it gets the communication happening. I will butcher Thai in a vain attempt to communicate but this only adds to the confusion.

I got an story from an old retired teacher from England. He went on a trip to Australia and called the Hotel first. He know before that the english will be very bad. He spoke with the Manager and to his surprise the Manager spoke a beautiful british English. When he came there he found out, it is an indian who learned english in India.

[LeungKen]

If anyone is going to Australia you might need some help in communicating with some of my contrymen there. Here is a little pidgin to help you on your way:-

"Robbo, the weirdo journo from Freo ended up a dero 'cos of the metho"

& ' I took some speccie piccies of us opening our Chrissie pressies at brekky"...

[sonnyJ]

OK, the English speaking world can't understand each other, just great , what will be next?

[YoungAndRice]

i don't speak broken english to Thais, but living here, sometimes I unintentionally speak broken or weird english to farang or Thais.

there are a bunch of slang words my gf invented that have become part of my vocabulary such as "neary" to describe something that is close by.

I also phrase questions with 'no' at the end, which my American siblings found strange. "You want blue cheese dressing, no?"

[yorkman]

Your siblings? You have your brother or sister there ordering toppings??

Edited December 28, 2007 by yorkman

[paulsmithson]

I think that a persons iQ is demonstrated by thier use of pidgin English.

MyThai wife is fluent in English and is a far more eloquent English speaker that most of the Farangs I met here, Speaking pigin english only shows how stupid you are.

[yorkman]

IQ = Understanding of English.

Ahhh... ok

[nidge]

I think that a persons iQ is demonstrated by thier use of pidgin English.

MyThai wife is fluent in English and is a far more eloquent English speaker that most of the Farangs I met here, Speaking pigin english only shows how stupid you are.

Have you ever worked with people that speak very little English? I work with a mixture of Chinese, Saudi and Venezuelans who are often poorly educated and have a very limited grasp on the English language. If you speak to them using your 'normal' vocabulary and grammar they will not understand you. Consequently they will think you are the stupid one. Often i need to get things done quickly. Pidgin English is easily understood and gets results.

As it has already been said, communication is the key. If no one understands you, you are not communicating.

[GuestHouse]

Now while I think we can forgive any non native English speakers for not speaking acceptable English, there is no excuse for the rest of us.

And I take the view that it is a mistake to think that the Brit you hear speaking English like he's had half his brain removed is only doing so because he's been living/holidaying in Thailand.

A shockingly high percentage of Brits in Thailand are only semi articulate.

'Tinglish', it would seem, is an improvement for many.

[mrtoad]

Now while I think we can forgive any non native English speakers for not speaking acceptable English, there is no excuse for the rest of us.

And I take the view that it is a mistake to think that the Brit you hear speaking English like he's had half his brain removed is only doing so because he's been living/holidaying in Thailand.

A shockingly high percentage of Brits in Thailand are only semi articulate.

'Tinglish', it would seem, is an improvement for many.

I think that is a pretty sweeping statement, although it would depend on where you met them. There's plenty of pretty inarticulate Americans, Canadians and Australians in Thailand as well, so I wouldn't suggest that it is just the Brits that deserve you're pointed remark.

[a1ka1ine]

i always try to talk thai, if they dont understand my thai (impolitely.. i.e. make a nasty face and not seem polite) then i talk normal british nice and quickly as i would talk to a friend back in manchester. if they are nice then i talk unbroken english but much more clear and with no slang. but.. i find typing broken thai much more often .. i guess i camfrog / msn too much >.<

[usaca]

I'm sure it's easy for everyone to slip in to it but as soon as I found myself doing it I'll try to correct it immediately. I am not 1st language English speaker so I try to improve my English as much as possible. Speaking pidgin English to Thais does more bad for them than good on my opinion so I try to speak as normally as I am able, they might even learn something new. If they never learn new words how can they improve?

I have an american friend who is an engineer. Most of the time when he talks to his wife he uses the same language he would when at work. Most of the words go straight over her head. Rather than her saying she does not understand she just nods her head and acts as if she understood. You cannot learn new words if you fail to understand any of the sentence.

I also did like his wife does many times in the past. Well, most of the time I use American English words, and many times when I talked to my british teacher I really couldn't understand what he was trying to say to me because he spoke British English. Luckily, I have an American friend who always teaches me English and he was a first person who taught me to speak English. I just started learning English seriously last 2 years ago when I was 13 years old and now I am 15. I've won the English tests of Sermpanya Company ranked as 1st of my province for 2 years ( last year and this year ). I really thank my friend who helped me with my English.

[Krupnik]

I think speaking broken English is a bad habit to get in to as like someone else said the Thais would never learn. I hope to learn to speak Thai someday and I wouldn't want to be spoken to in bad Thai!

It actually amazes me how my friend here will be talking to me normally and then when he speaks to his girlfriend he immediately switches to speaking in that stupid baby talk. I actually find it a bit embarrassing when friends do it around me with Thais who speak really good English, just because they have gotten in to the habit of always speaking like that.

It's hard not to sometimes though, when a lot of people around me speak like it.

[LucMee]

I think speaking broken English is a bad habit to get in to as like someone else said the Thais would never learn. I hope to learn to speak Thai someday and I wouldn't want to be spoken to in bad Thai!

It actually amazes me how my friend here will be talking to me normally and then when he speaks to his girlfriend he immediately switches to speaking in that stupid baby talk. I actually find it a bit embarrassing when friends do it around me with Thais who speak really good English, just because they have gotten in to the habit of always speaking like that.

It's hard not to sometimes though, when a lot of people around me speak like it.

After 20 years I still speak Tinglish with the wife and immediately switch to (what passes for) proper english with my kids and other family. I've even developed a funny accent that people say sounds Jamaican when I'm having long conversations with the Mrs.... What's really funny though, is that she can still switch off any and all ability to understand english if it suits her! And when she gets excited or upset she resorts to the funniest pidgin... And this is a woman who sits and does dozens of word puzzles in english in her spare time!

Edited December 30, 2007 by LucMee

[Travel2003]

Back on topic. Speak simple English to non-native speakers,

Agree.

Remember from back home some years ago.

Met a lot nice guys from England, working on the various plants in the area where I lived.

Sometimes these guys totally forgot that even though I spoke fairly good English, I had no way of understanding them when they hammered away in their dialects from back home.

I can very much understand how the Thais experience this.

One of my best friends also live in BKK, but still speaks his dialect from back home in England.

Nobody understand him.

Well, they understand his f... this and f... that. But they misunderstand him and think he is angry.

I always end up trying to explain to them that it is just his way of talking.

As for the pidgin English. I keep telling my other friends NOT to speak that to my wife.

She already speaks good English, but can easily immitate the silly pidgin English, and I end up correcting her.

To repeat PeaceBlondie, keep it simple, but I think it also should be correct.

[lioness]

Bad English, well what suprises me is that you are living in Thailand and making little if any attempt to speak Thai.

If a Thai went to live in England or elsewhere would everyone try and speak Thai, I think not. So why aren't you all learning the language of the country you are in.

It's not that difficult it has taken me just 2 years to be fluent, the problem is few of you even try, the arrogance of the Western race.

I met one American chap who lives in a small town in central Thailand, it is his sole ambition that everyone speaks english, not a thought that he should make the effort to communicate in the Thai language.

I bet all you " Westerners" with Thai wives all expect the wife to speak your language, such arrogance.

[mrtoad]

Bad English, well what suprises me is that you are living in Thailand and making little if any attempt to speak Thai.

If a Thai went to live in England or elsewhere would everyone try and speak Thai, I think not. So why aren't you all learning the language of the country you are in.

It's not that difficult it has taken me just 2 years to be fluent, the problem is few of you even try, the arrogance of the Western race.

I met one American chap who lives in a small town in central Thailand, it is his sole ambition that everyone speaks english, not a thought that he should make the effort to communicate in the Thai language.

I bet all you " Westerners" with Thai wives all expect the wife to speak your language, such arrogance.

You're way off topic "Newbie", the topic is about English speakers speaking bad English to other English speakers, not Thais.

Edited December 30, 2007 by mrtoad

[Travel2003]

Bad English, well what suprises me is that you are living in Thailand and making little if any attempt to speak Thai.

If a Thai went to live in England or elsewhere would everyone try and speak Thai, I think not. So why aren't you all learning the language of the country you are in.

It's not that difficult it has taken me just 2 years to be fluent, the problem is few of you even try, the arrogance of the Western race.

I met one American chap who lives in a small town in central Thailand, it is his sole ambition that everyone speaks english, not a thought that he should make the effort to communicate in the Thai language.

I bet all you " Westerners" with Thai wives all expect the wife to speak your language, such arrogance.

Western race???? What the h... is that?

You bet all Westerners with Thai wifes...............?

And YOU talk about arrogance??

A bit arrogant to judge all Westerners isnt it?

[sbk]

Bad English, well what suprises me is that you are living in Thailand and making little if any attempt to speak Thai.

If a Thai went to live in England or elsewhere would everyone try and speak Thai, I think not. So why aren't you all learning the language of the country you are in.

It's not that difficult it has taken me just 2 years to be fluent, the problem is few of you even try, the arrogance of the Western race.

I met one American chap who lives in a small town in central Thailand, it is his sole ambition that everyone speaks english, not a thought that he should make the effort to communicate in the Thai language.

I bet all you " Westerners" with Thai wives all expect the wife to speak your language, such arrogance.

You're way off topic "Newbie", the topic is about English speakers speaking bad English to other English speakers, not Thais.

True, but if you can speak Thai then you won't fall into the habit of speaking pidgin English with Thai people. Thus, you won't inadvertently use it with foreigners either

***Off topic a bit here but lioness, you might want to tone down the rhetoric a bit there. I am a western woman with a Thai husband, I am fluent in Thai and yes, we speak English with each other most of the time. Just worked out easier that way as I did not speak Thai when I arrived, he spoke English. We fell into the habit of speaking English. Best not to judge others by one's own preconceived notions. One can often be proven wrong ***

[tijnebijn]

Bad English, well what suprises me is that you are living in Thailand and making little if any attempt to speak Thai.

If a Thai went to live in England or elsewhere would everyone try and speak Thai, I think not. So why aren't you all learning the language of the country you are in.

It's not that difficult it has taken me just 2 years to be fluent, the problem is few of you even try, the arrogance of the Western race.

I met one American chap who lives in a small town in central Thailand, it is his sole ambition that everyone speaks english, not a thought that he should make the effort to communicate in the Thai language.

I bet all you " Westerners" with Thai wives all expect the wife to speak your language, such arrogance.

You're way off topic "Newbie", the topic is about English speakers speaking bad English to other English speakers, not Thais.

True, but if you can speak Thai then you won't fall into the habit of speaking pidgin English with Thai people. Thus, you won't inadvertently use it with foreigners either

***Off topic a bit here but lioness, you might want to tone down the rhetoric a bit there. I am a western woman with a Thai husband, I am fluent in Thai and yes, we speak English with each other most of the time. Just worked out easier that way as I did not speak Thai when I arrived, he spoke English. We fell into the habit of speaking English. Best not to judge others by one's own preconceived notions. One can often be proven wrong ***

I totally agree on this one with you SBK , my situation is similar as yours and

I think you wrote this down very well .

[usaca]

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid

So keep speaking simple English

[keekwai]

I don't speak broken English with Thai people so no, I don't speak broken English with foreigners either.

Just to add, my husband, who is fluent in English, is generally quite offended by people who speak to him in broken English, he feels that they are being patronizing and condescending, so it might be best to just learn to speak slowly and clearly instead of speaking pidgin.

EXACTLY ! .. How the hel_l do you expect Thais or any other non native English speaker to learn English if all these ignorant brainless twits go around speaking as if they are reading an old Tarzan movie script?

It IS condescending, and I'd be insulted too.

I remember having a Greek boss back in Australia years ago who spoke English perfectly. One day there was this twit speaking to him in "Tarzan Speak" and he said to him ... "What are ya mate .. a bloody &lt;deleted&gt; or something?" ... cracked me up.

[jeffinbangkok]

Sanook Mak Khrap!

[Lancashirelad]

Glad the OP brought this up as its something i've thought about many times. Yes, I'm guilty of speaking Thainglish to lo-so Thais and then it gets carried over to farang friends and, for a while, back home.

I know full well, as other posters have said, its very wrong and creates a self-perpetuating vicious circle.

What we are doing is speaking the poor English (often with the words in an incorrect order) that they speak to us, back to them because we know that they will be much more likely to understand. BUT, for sure (at it again!) they are never going to improve their English if we fail to speak it properly to them.

However, as one poster said, it can be a matter of time: do you stick with Queen's English with constant repetition & many confused looks, or do you revert to Thainglish & move the day onwards? Its a dilemma.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Lancashirelad

[tracer5050]

When my wife english is not correct, I have her pratice till its as close as most thais can speak, But in all fairness she does the same for me , We talk in Thai 1/2 of the time as it really helps me with my Thai. Works out so well for both of us.

But on a different note. Not long ago I was back in the US and was going with my Flang daughter to coffee shop and said to her ,this shop is not the one i like ,(they have nit noi seats ) have to be careful LOL

Edited December 30, 2007 by tracer5050

[tattoodrob]

This past October when I was in Thailand. I made some friends with some first time travelers. We met in Phuket and happen to fly back to Bangkok on the same flight and shared a Taxi to our separate hotels.

During the time in the Taxi, I was giving advise and answering their many questions. As it turned out through talking, they were from New Jersey and I am from Delaware and our states neighbor each other..... We had no problem when talking but they did ask me.... "Why are you talking with broken English? It is so funny that you are talking to us as if English is our second language" (They they laughed a little).

I explained that I am so use to talking that way while in Thailand that it is difficult to turn it off....

Also when I am talking with Thia's who were educated in English speaking lands, they will remind me that I can talk to them in regular English.

yeh i use to have a bar and was always pulled up for talking this broken english way to my foreign customers........you feel like a pratt when they say what are you talking like that for.unless you can speak thai then im afraid its the easiest way to comunicate out here or i find you end up repeating yourself too many times which is even more annoying.i find when i sms or email i tend to write in this broken way too.........must be annoying to my foreign pals to read,think ive lost the plot...or at least my education .i agree too that then trying to talk to a thai in my normal english way is difficult.......i think its something all we foreigners do when we have stayed here a while and holiday makers dont understand but believe me they would be the same .whats even funnier is when two english guys who live here talk to each other in this broken english way and dont notice there doing it.

sorry if ive repeated what other people have posted but i aint read em all yet!

[tracer5050]

i don't speak broken english to Thais, but living here, sometimes I unintentionally speak broken or weird english to farang or Thais.

there are a bunch of slang words my gf invented that have become part of my vocabulary such as "neary" to describe something that is close by.

I also phrase questions with 'no' at the end, which my American siblings found strange. "You want blue cheese dressing, no?"

Maybe you want blue cheese dressing Mi

[lioness]

Mr Toad, many posts are off the subject so to speak, Must have hit a sore spot. Travel 2003 my reference to ALL was to those who don't make an effort.

As to bad English, have a look at some of the posts, some people even have a problem speaking the Queens English correctly.