Farang Motorcyclists In The Pattaya Area.

[gharknes]

Just had a very quick skirt over this thread, for those that think thais are generally good drivers of cars or bikes need to really think a little bit harder, some of the stuff I've seen around the city have totally shocked me, yes falangs that try to emulate the thais lunatic road rules are even worse, speed in the wrong places is the biggest contribution, followed by running red lights and drink driving,, walking in soi 7 or 8 is extremely dangerous when thai bikes are flying down there, walking street is the same when it opens up in the early hours, how people aren't killed I will never know

on a positive note, most thais are such bad drivers that it creates a minority of very cautious good drivers......

[Kerryd]

I would find it a strange (tragic) coincidence if (2) Canadians both had serious accidents while riding Harleys on the same day in the Pattaya/Jomtien area.

Well, strange and tragic coincidences do occur.

My friend had his accident, while riding his Harley, around 10 in the morning on the 29th. He is still in the hospital, but can talk and eat normally, and should be released in a couple of days.

The other accident apparently happened around 3 pm on the 29th. The Canadian that died in that accident ("Kelsey") is apparently known to some of the folks that hang out at the Shark Bar (or is it "Sharkies" ?). Haven't been able to find out much more than that.

[gharknes]

My limited experience here tells me that if I do 80 the cars wanna do 90, if I do 90 they wanna do 100, if I do 120 they wanna do 130.

I just keep out of the way, or go faster.

very very true, I find this all the time, I have come to the conclusion that some car drivers will do anything to pass or stay in front of a motorbike, with me what they don't realise is I have 300kph on tap, and thai motorbike riders will do anything to get in front of or pass a falang on a motorbike. I can do their top speed in 1st gear, not saying I rise to the occasion but the odd time when safe I have a little fun with them.

[tatt2dude]

Interesting thread.

My background with bikes, raced moto-x since the age of 12, finished racing in the UK in 2004 (40 years old) at the time I was doing the British Superstock series at the British Superbikes, crashed 13 times in my last season, one lowside at Thruxton through church corner 135mph knee down, not funny. High sides were my favourite amazing how much goes through your mind when your airbourne, my last bike was a Suzuki GSXR 1000 K3. When I moved to Thailand I did some track day stuff at Bira circuit after an 18 month layoff, got down to decent race times, shipped my leathers alpinestars and Arai over, back protector as well, I think most people who have seen me ride would describe me as a loon.

Now, there is no way in the world that I would get on anything bigger than a Yamaha Mio without my full face Arai, boots, kevlar gloves and back protector. (Harleys etc jeans full coverage but I am talking plastic fantastic stuff here), I think most serious bikers take the same viewpoint, perhaps not to the same extreme but as I stated previously I know EXACTLY how much falling off hurts.

These idiots who come here and hire bikes IMHO have never ridden one before. If they had the would know that these things are designed to run hot, very hot. They need to be ridden fast to cool them, the frame gets hot, the seat gets hot, everything gets hot. Gear selection is not easy as there is a built in resistance in the gearbox, nearly all the superbike stuff is reasonably close ratio from the factory. A CBR 1000 now puts down approx 165bhp out of the crate and with standard gearing will hit a top speed of around 175mph. The power kicks in at around 3000rpm and I believe the CBR revs to around 12500 RPM, the torque put down through the back wheel would make a Porche look very silly.

My only comfort when I see these people wearing flip flops, speedos and no helmet is that at the end of a days posing for bargirls, they will be sore, their feet will be crippled and hopefully they will have sunburn..... at best... worst case scenario the Russian who recently decided to "give it the berries" away from the lights to impress a couple of hookers no less, is death by lampost, very difficult to steer when the front wheel goes light, senseless waste of human life.

When you bin it at say 60mph on a UK race track, you pray that you will hit the grass quickly, tarmac will go through leather in roughly .25 of a second at that speed, skin and bone offer the same resistance as butter. I have no idea how sturdy speedos are but I am willing to wager they offer very little protection. Toes and fingers are always first to go but no doubt given the popularity, a sturdy flip flop offers excellent support. A plastic crash helmet will offer the same protection as a slice of hovis.

Something should be done about them, they are a menace to themselves and everyone else. And no they dont look cool. Personally I am amazed that there are so FEW fatalities given the riding level and safety equipment of 99.9% of these idiots.

My bike of choice?

Yamaha Mio twist and go proper helmet, open face, I take chances on a scooter with regard to riding gear that I never would on a "proper" bike, but then its a VERY different animal.

Edited February 8, 2008 by tatt2dude

[NanLaew]

^

At last, a REAL biker speaks. Great input sir and I hope what you have said rubs off some others around here.

[xbusman]

Nice post from a biker. You have to scrape away a few pounds of flesh and stuff a few bones back into the skin before you really catch on how painful contact of any sort is. Sorta changes things and puts them in perspective. Likewise, I never drive without a DOT certified helmet, gloves, abrasive resistant leggings, proper shoes and gloves. Wish I could wear my Harley jacket in this heat but I have noticed the leather shrunk and its about 6 sizes too small (couldnt be my gut is growing!). I should have some upper body armor, maybe this year.

Having said that, I do drive way too fast through Bangkok. Weaving in and out of traffic like its some sort of video game. Despite complete and total focus on the road ahead and keeping the envelope clear, I have been hit twice from behind at intersections and hit the back of one taxi meter. I think the taxi was messing with me, he ran after the accident which leaves me suspicious. Thats sum total in 50,000km but the level of attention to stay alive here is extremely high. All three accidents happened at walking speed or below but I better slow down before I take out a squid bicycle and end up in ICU.

[xbusman]

I also want to add "old biker" advice to anyone who drives a motorcycle. As a motorcyclist, even if your hit from behind, its completely and entirely your fault. A biker is completely and totally exposed to moving steel weighing many tons with incredible momentum and energy, if you decide to get out there with them, contact with anything is completely and totally verbotin, everything hurts and the smallest contact can cause great damage.

There is an envelope of life around your bike, anything that enters that envelope at any speed is potentially fatal, from either side, front or rear. Your brakes define the envelope in the front, your mirrors in the rear, and your eyes for the sides. The important point is that when you decide to drive to a motorcycle, you have to come to terms with the fact that you can only lose. Any race, any road rage, any claim to a lane, any right of way, any intersection, you only have the potential to lose, and lose big. Surviving is winning.

This advice comes to you from having buried many friends that had the right of way. Many who never saw it coming. And a few who only could learn the hard way.

Stay safe, stay out of the way, and come back alive.

[tatt2dude]

I will add on the whole Thai versus Farang driving issue: I find driving my Strada Grandis four wheel drive tank to Bangkok and back a truly life threatening experience, everytime I arrive at either destination I feel lucky to have survived which is strange considering the amount of time I raced and never gave it a second thought, I find drivers in Thailand dont give a shit, the sheer bloody mindedness of car drivers Thai and Farang is amazing, its rubbed off on me also, traffic jam? Any chance to cut in I am there, no please no thankyou.

Riding the scooter in Pattaya however my experience is slightly different, I have ridden on the roads in just about every country I have visited and I find that Pattaya is the only city on the planet that I can "muscle" my way out of a side road on a twist and go, obviously one day there may come a time where I find this is not to be the case, but up until now I find many drivers view scooters as an equal vehicle. (With the exception of this forum)

Riding a scooter in Pattaya was much like riding one in the BSB paddock, kaos, interestingly enough scooters were banned in the bsb paddock in 03 with the exception of riders and one race mechanic allowed to use a pit bike.

I can get through Pattaya traffic way faster on a twist and go than I could on a Superbike, try manouvering one at low speed, not designed for that, and on two occasions when I have come across a couple of the Superbike boys in speedos who were game and could not let their pride be dented by a guy on a scooter, I had tremendous fun "egging" them along and leading them through some very tight gaps at speed, I stopped after the second one as he very nearly got it all wrong trying to "live" with me.

I know.... I should grow up.

[tatt2dude]

contact with anything is completely and totally verbotin, everything hurts and the smallest contact can cause great damage.

Me laying at the side of Mallory Park Track after regaining consiousness with all extremities on fire:

"Can't...... Breath.... cant.... breath....take off visor.... please!"

Track Marshall "Mate... there's no visor left!"

Nothing sucks more than crashing, perhaps with the exception of the injuries that take months to heal, part of my reason for living and working here, English winters leave me with the momentum of a 3000 year old man.

When in Pattaya use protection.

[xminator]

contact with anything is completely and totally verbotin, everything hurts and the smallest contact can cause great damage.

Me laying at the side of Mallory Park Track after regaining consiousness with all extremities on fire:

"Can't...... Breath.... cant.... breath....take off visor.... please!"

Track Marshall "Mate... there's no visor left!"

Nothing sucks more than crashing, perhaps with the exception of the injuries that take months to heal, part of my reason for living and working here, English winters leave me with the momentum of a 3000 year old man.

When in Pattaya use protection.

Well, there is more then a few farang motorbikers that show the same irresponsible driving pattern in farangland too. They own the road. They take chances that is way beyond rational. And ... they get killed in a proportion way above the number they represent on the road. I suspect more then a few are natural risktakers. The type that will draw to extreme sports etc. When you average omg-I'm-40 get to Pattaya and get his bike, he will copy the attitude of these "cool" people and the attitude from various movies he saw in his youth. His transforming himself from clerk #37 to Hells Angels. And to stop this attitude is probably as impossible as telling a 18-year old to "think about the consequence" or stop them from having sex...

[tatt2dude]

contact with anything is completely and totally verbotin, everything hurts and the smallest contact can cause great damage.

Me laying at the side of Mallory Park Track after regaining consiousness with all extremities on fire:

"Can't...... Breath.... cant.... breath....take off visor.... please!"

Track Marshall "Mate... there's no visor left!"

Nothing sucks more than crashing, perhaps with the exception of the injuries that take months to heal, part of my reason for living and working here, English winters leave me with the momentum of a 3000 year old man.

When in Pattaya use protection.

Well, there is more then a few farang motorbikers that show the same irresponsible driving pattern in farangland too. They own the road. They take chances that is way beyond rational. And ... they get killed in a proportion way above the number they represent on the road. I suspect more then a few are natural risktakers. The type that will draw to extreme sports etc. When you average omg-I'm-40 get to Pattaya and get his bike, he will copy the attitude of these "cool" people and the attitude from various movies he saw in his youth. His transforming himself from clerk #37 to Hells Angels. And to stop this attitude is probably as impossible as telling a 18-year old to "think about the consequence" or stop them from having sex...

Just so we are clear. This incident on a race track, I refuse to ride a Superbike on the road either here England or anywhere else, last time I rode on the road on anything bigger than a scooter 1994. These bikes are designed for the track plain and simple.

My "attitude" (just so we are clear) is that the risk is acceptable when:

A: Everyone is going in the same direction

B: There is enough run off before you hit anything harder than a hay bale

C: Experienced marshalls medics and doctors are on hand (which they are in the UK)

D: Proper equipment is used and all bikes on track have passed a scruteneering process

I very much doubt anyone wants to be as "cool" as me, simple fact is at Superstock level in the BSB I didn't cut the mustard, that bastard Velentino Rossi however has a lot to answer for, take it up with him.

As I said in a previous post, comming to Pattaya and hiring a Superbike with no experience and no proper protective gear makes you an idiot in my book.

[xminator]

On the other hand, did a quick count while walking 200 meter home from the restaurant at jomtien last night. 10 thai motorbikes without helmet, 8 of them with passenger without helmet, 1 thai driver with helmet but thai passenger without helmet.

1 farang without helmet and he was alone on the bike. The ratio of thai vs farang was probably 4:1, but still the "helmetless idiot" refered to by OP is in general thai.

1 case of reckless driving, thai man without helmet.

[Mobi]

On the other hand, did a quick count while walking 200 meter home from the restaurant at jomtien last night. 10 thai motorbikes without helmet, 8 of them with passenger without helmet, 1 thai driver with helmet but thai passenger without helmet.

1 farang without helmet and he was alone on the bike. The ratio of thai vs farang was probably 4:1, but still the "helmetless idiot" refered to by OP is in general thai.

1 case of reckless driving, thai man without helmet.

Well I'm the OP and I have never used the term "helmetless idiot"

I would also like to point out that while you are very welcome to take this thread anywhere you wish it to go, it was never started or intended to be comparison between Thai and farang motorcyclists, and it was never intended to be a discussion on bad driving by Thais.

It was a rant against foolish farangs, most of whom aught to know better, who ride motorcycles without helmets, often without lights, and without any protective clothing. I also deplore the increasingly common practise of farangs riding around bare chested -some almost naked - as it is offence against Thai culture. Again they should know better as guests in this country.

I also observed that many farangs, (not all), drive in a dangerous and reckless fashion.

Since this thread has been started there has been at least 4, maybe more, farangs killed on motorcycles in the Pattaya area, so I guess it proves my point.

[tropo]

It was a rant against foolish farangs, most of whom aught to know better, who ride motorcycles without helmets, often without lights, and without any protective clothing. I also deplore the increasingly common practise of farangs riding around bare chested -some almost naked - as it is offence against Thai culture. Again they should know better as guests in this country.

I also observed that many farangs, (not all), drive in a dangerous and reckless fashion.

IMO your attitude here is way over the top and prudish.

This is a beach resort where the normal rules don't apply. Most of the Thais who live here are here directly or indirectly because of the large tourist and expat population. Do they mind?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Farang riding shirtless on a motorcycle enjoying the sunshine. It can be a very invigorating experience - you should try it sometime.

Don't forget about the hordes of scantily dressed bar girls and ladyboys walking around here day and night. Thai culture? Who cares in Pattaya?

[Mobi]

It was a rant against foolish farangs, most of whom aught to know better, who ride motorcycles without helmets, often without lights, and without any protective clothing. I also deplore the increasingly common practise of farangs riding around bare chested -some almost naked - as it is offence against Thai culture. Again they should know better as guests in this country.

I also observed that many farangs, (not all), drive in a dangerous and reckless fashion.

IMO your attitude here is way over the top and prudish.

This is a beach resort where the normal rules don't apply. Most of the Thais who live here are here directly or indirectly because of the large tourist and expat population. Do they mind?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Farang riding shirtless on a motorcycle enjoying the sunshine. It can be a very invigorating experience - you should try it sometime.

Don't forget about the hordes of scantily dressed bar girls and ladyboys walking around here day and night. Thai culture? Who cares in Pattaya?

Clearly you don't.

There really isn't anything more to be said, as your words speak volumes.

[tropo]

Clearly you don't.

There really isn't anything more to be said, as your words speak volumes.

You took that the wrong way, so a further post has become necessary.

Pattaya was built up on foreign culture to cater to foreign culture. Like many others, I didn't come to Pattaya to experience Thai culture as such, but rather to experience what the unique blend of many foreign cultures has to offer.

In a way Pattaya is to Thailand as Macau and Hong Kong are to China. It's treated differently by Thais.

It's the anything goes, relaxed attitude in Pattaya that I like. There are so many different cultures blended together here that a relaxed attitude to most things is the only way to go. I believe Thais live here in Pattaya for the same reason.

Your complaints are bit like a person moving into a bar district and complaining about the noise after 8pm, or someone moving to Las Vegas and complaining about the casinos.

To sit back and ridicule a few shirtless Farang for enjoying the sunshine while riding around on scooters is being out of touch IMO.

Shirtless Farang in air conditioned restaurants is a different matter entirely, but that's considered bad manners everywhere in the world.

Perhaps you've living in the wrong place. A more traditional locale may suit you better.

Cheers

[xminator]

Didnt look like thai men had any problems going shirtless when I visited isaan.

Your general biker without helmet is thai.

There is as many thai men going shirtless as farang.

Your general reckless biker is wearing a blue vest.

Farang bikers aint even top 10 when it comes to potential traffic hazzards. Lack of sidewalk, no pedestrian crossing, driving on red light, lack of road maintenance just from the top of my head.

[Gary A]

OH YEAH, riding a motorbike wearing a swim suit and sandals is really fun. Not too smart but REALLY a lot of fun. Talk about losing a few pounds VERY quickly. Fun lovers can say what they like but that is simply very STUPID behavior !

[Mobi]

Clearly you don't.

There really isn't anything more to be said, as your words speak volumes.

You took that the wrong way, so a further post has become necessary.

Pattaya was built up on foreign culture to cater to foreign culture. Like many others, I didn't come to Pattaya to experience Thai culture as such, but rather to experience what the unique blend of many foreign cultures has to offer.

In a way Pattaya is to Thailand as Macau and Hong Kong are to China. It's treated differently by Thais.

It's the anything goes, relaxed attitude in Pattaya that I like. There are so many different cultures blended together here that a relaxed attitude to most things is the only way to go. I believe Thais live here in Pattaya for the same reason.

Your complaints are bit like a person moving into a bar district and complaining about the noise after 8pm, or someone moving to Las Vegas and complaining about the casinos.

To sit back and ridicule a few shirtless Farang for enjoying the sunshine while riding around on scooters is being out of touch IMO.

Shirtless Farang in air conditioned restaurants is a different matter entirely, but that's considered bad manners everywhere in the world.

Perhaps you've living in the wrong place. A more traditional locale may suit you better.

Cheers

You're trying to dig yourself out of a huge hole, and you are being extremely disingenuous.

You know very well from the many posts I have made on this thread that I am not talking about the area between Beach and third road, and I have already stated it in this thread, that whether we like it or not - more or less anything goes. Pattaya is a big city, and your see these shirtless morons everywhere - Sukhumvit, East Pattaya, Bang sarae - you name it.

I have just done a straw poll of 10 Thais, and half a dozen farangs this evening, and every single one confirmed that they are offended by the sight of farangs driving around shirtless, and made comments to the effect that they are rude, ignorant, insensitive louts, and give westerners generally a bad reputation.

If you really think it is fine to to say "Who cares about Thai culture?" because you are in Pattaya and it doesn't matter here, then I suggest that you are the one who may be living in the wrong country.

You can't transplant Blackpool or Southend or even Florida into Thailand.

As I said, that simple statement you made speaks volumes, and you can try to justify it until you are blue in the face, but I'm sorry Tropo, my friend, I think you may have blown your cover.

[Taz]

Clearly you don't.

There really isn't anything more to be said, as your words speak volumes.

You took that the wrong way, so a further post has become necessary.

Pattaya was built up on foreign culture to cater to foreign culture. Like many others, I didn't come to Pattaya to experience Thai culture as such, but rather to experience what the unique blend of many foreign cultures has to offer.

In a way Pattaya is to Thailand as Macau and Hong Kong are to China. It's treated differently by Thais.

It's the anything goes, relaxed attitude in Pattaya that I like. There are so many different cultures blended together here that a relaxed attitude to most things is the only way to go. I believe Thais live here in Pattaya for the same reason.

Your complaints are bit like a person moving into a bar district and complaining about the noise after 8pm, or someone moving to Las Vegas and complaining about the casinos.

To sit back and ridicule a few shirtless Farang for enjoying the sunshine while riding around on scooters is being out of touch IMO.

Shirtless Farang in air conditioned restaurants is a different matter entirely, but that's considered bad manners everywhere in the world.

Perhaps you've living in the wrong place. A more traditional locale may suit you better.

Cheers

You're trying to dig yourself out of a huge hole, and you are being extremely disingenuous.

You know very well from the many posts I have made on this thread that I am not talking about the area between Beach and third road, and I have already stated it in this thread, that whether we like it or not - more or less anything goes. Pattaya is a big city, and your see these shirtless morons everywhere - Sukhumvit, East Pattaya, Bang sarae - you name it.

I have just done a straw poll of 10 Thais, and half a dozen farangs this evening, and every single one confirmed that they are offended by the sight of farangs driving around shirtless, and made comments to the effect that they are rude, ignorant, insensitive louts, and give westerners generally a bad reputation.

If you really think it is fine to to say "Who cares about Thai culture?" because you are in Pattaya and it doesn't matter here, then I suggest that you are the one who may be living in the wrong country.

You can't transplant Blackpool or Southend or even Florida into Thailand.

As I said, that simple statement you made speaks volumes, and you can try to justify it until you are blue in the face, but I'm sorry Tropo, my friend, I think you may have blown your cover.

What a lot of cobswash. Thai's drive around without shirts on too. You need to get outside Pattaya sometime.

Taz.

[Mobi]

What a lot of cobswash. Thai's drive around without shirts on too. You need to get outside Pattaya sometime.

Taz.

I'm afraid you are the one writing the "cobswash" (sic)

I've probably spent more years in Thailand and have been to more places here than you will ever experience or dream about.

A few drunken Thais tearing around shirtless in Issan doesn't make it culturally acceptable and without offence for you to do the same.

Go on - ask some Thai residents (which is probably unlikely as I'm sure you can't speak Thai), or any farang who has lived a few years here and understands a bit about his adopted country, and see what answer you get.

And try going shirtless in a main Bangkok Street and see what happens to you.

You really have a lot to learn, and it is all very sad, because it certainly helps us to understand the hatred so many Thais have for those Pattaya farangs who think they know it all and behave as though they are back in their own backyards and treat this country, it's customs and it's culture with such contempt.

[Maigo6]

Mostly old men who find young guys shirtless on motorcycles offensive, secretly wishing they could turn back time and be that irresponsible again.

Theres a heck of a lot more going on in Pattaya to drag down Thailands culture than shirtless Farangs on holiday.

In your straw Poll, what was the average age of the Farangs who were offended by shirtless Farangs, 70 ?

[tropo]

You're trying to dig yourself out of a huge hole, and you are being extremely disingenuous.

I have just done a straw poll of 10 Thais, and half a dozen farangs this evening, and every single one confirmed that they are offended by the sight of farangs driving around shirtless, and made comments to the effect that they are rude, ignorant, insensitive louts, and give westerners generally a bad reputation.

If you really think it is fine to to say "Who cares about Thai culture?" because you are in Pattaya and it doesn't matter here, then I suggest that you are the one who may be living in the wrong country.

As I said, that simple statement you made speaks volumes, and you can try to justify it until you are blue in the face, but I'm sorry Tropo, my friend, I think you may have blown your cover.

I'm not trying to dig myself out of any hole and don't give a hoot about your "straw pole". I'm surprised that my comments upset you so much that you needed to go out and ask some people what they thought.

You've done again what you always do, you've taken what I said out of context.

I did not say "who cares about Thai culture" as you misquoted, my words were "Thai culture? Who cares in Pattaya?" This statement was intended to put the emphasis on Pattaya.

It's pretty obvious that even the Thais don't care too much for Thai culture in Pattaya - wine, woman and song all the way. The rules don't apply.

You've been in Thailand far too long. The fact that you're an old English prude doesn't help at all.

You're stuck in the past and somewhere else.

Things are going to get much worse now that Ivan has taken over the town. You should move before it's too late.

Edited February 10, 2008 by tropo

[Mobi]

Mostly old men who find young guys shirtless on motorcycles offensive, secretly wishing they could turn back time and be that irresponsible again.

Theres a heck of a lot more going on in Pattaya to drag down Thailands culture than shirtless Farangs on holiday.

In your straw Poll, what was the average age of the Farangs who were offended by shirtless Farangs, 70 ?

Au contraire mon ami. Many of the shirtless brigade look well over 70 themselves, complete with pot bellies, white chest hair and sporting their ubiquitous shaven heads to disguise receding hairlines.

The straw poll was amongst a range of farangs from 30 - 50's. They are are not personally offended as such, but have been in Thailand long enough to know that that such dress codes are offensive and unacceptable to most Thais, and as a consequence find it distasteful.

[Maigo6]

Au contraire mon ami. Many of the shirtless brigade look well over 70 themselves, complete with pot bellies, white chest hair and sporting their ubiquitous shaven heads to disguise receding hairlines.

Yep, don't look very nice, I agree.

As Tropo mentioned, with more and more Ivan's in town, things will get worse before they get better.

I know people harp on about the good old days, but things have to be getting bad in Pattaya when the ' Good old days ' are only a few years ago!

[Mobi]

You're trying to dig yourself out of a huge hole, and you are being extremely disingenuous.

I have just done a straw poll of 10 Thais, and half a dozen farangs this evening, and every single one confirmed that they are offended by the sight of farangs driving around shirtless, and made comments to the effect that they are rude, ignorant, insensitive louts, and give westerners generally a bad reputation.

If you really think it is fine to to say "Who cares about Thai culture?" because you are in Pattaya and it doesn't matter here, then I suggest that you are the one who may be living in the wrong country.

As I said, that simple statement you made speaks volumes, and you can try to justify it until you are blue in the face, but I'm sorry Tropo, my friend, I think you may have blown your cover.

I'm not trying to dig myself out of any hole and don't give a hoot about your "straw pole". I'm surprised that my comments upset you so much that you needed to go out and ask some people what they thought.

You've done again what you always do, you've taken what I said out of context.

I did not say "who cares about Thai culture" as you misquoted, my words were "Thai culture? Who cares in Pattaya?" This statement was intended to put the emphasis on Pattaya.

It's pretty obvious that even the Thais don't care too much for Thai culture in Pattaya - wine, woman and song all the way. The rules don't apply.

You've been in Thailand far too long. The fact that you're an old English prude doesn't help at all.

You're stuck in the past and somewhere else.

Things are going to get much worse now that Ivan has taken over the town. You should move before it's too late.

I'm surprised that every time I post, what most sensible and right thinking people know is eminently sensible and correct in this thread, that you make it a personal crusade to attack me.

You just cannot accept that any farang would be insensitive to other cultures, and would ever dream of of riding a motorcycle in a way that is a danger to themselves and others.

So Thais don't are too much for culture in Pattaya as it's just a city of "wine women and song" and "the rules don't apply". Have I quoted you correctly this time?

So who are these Thais that don't care? The pimps, whores, transvestites, bar and brothel owners and drug addicts who inhabit the area between Beach and Third Road,( most of whom are not even residents of Chon Buri province, and some not even Thai nationals)?

What about the rest of Pattaya's population? The normal people who go about their normal decent lives in a normal Thai way. Are you sure they think the rules don't apply? Have you asked any lately?

Enjoy yourself on your 'hot' machine, steaming down beach road semi naked, trying to show what a fine specimen of farang manhood you are. The only person you are kidding is yourself.

[Mobi]

Au contraire mon ami. Many of the shirtless brigade look well over 70 themselves, complete with pot bellies, white chest hair and sporting their ubiquitous shaven heads to disguise receding hairlines.

Yep, don't look very nice, I agree.

As Tropo mentioned, with more and more Ivan's in town, things will get worse before they get better.

I know people harp on about the good old days, but things have to be getting bad in Pattaya when the ' Good old days ' are only a few years ago!

Strangely enough, as a few have mentioned in other threads, not all the Ivans a penniless, shiftless louts. An increasing number of Russian families are now taking holidays in Pattaya, and I was at the Royal Cliff the other day, and over 90 % of the guests were Russian, and they weren't from the bottom of the barrel.

I am sure there are all manner of Russians here, but maybe they are not all bad for Pattaya.

Surely they can't be much worse than the lager swilling, violent football louts from good old Blighty?

[monty]

Au contraire mon ami. Many of the shirtless brigade look well over 70 themselves, complete with pot bellies, white chest hair and sporting their ubiquitous shaven heads to disguise receding hairlines. tongue.gif

Haha, there's one like that zooming round our lake every day.

Hope he doesn't fall one day, even at 5 kmh he's going to be pretty messes up with the total lack of garments on his body!

[Jareddiving]

Bla bla bla bla bla bla... Who care's??

[Humphrey Bear]

I would also like to point out that while you are very welcome to take this thread anywhere you wish it to go, it was never started or intended to be comparison between Thai and farang motorcyclists, and it was never intended to be a discussion on bad driving by Thais.

It was a rant against foolish farangs,

Oh, I thought it was to wind-up Tropo.

Anyway, not being a motor-bike rider I should not say much here. But in the fifties and sixties I was on the road every day, training for bike races, and at the weekends competing.

One learnt, even in those traffic-sparse golden years, that you were far more vulnerable on a bike than in a car. And kept your wits about you, made sure you were aware of everything happening around you and took evasive action as necessary.

For a couple of years I was working at British Standards - designed the first crash-helmet testing rigs, seat-belt testing rigs and the building housing them. We had many failures, but the helmets that got the 'Kite-Mark' label were credited with saving many lives.

As regards suddenly finding yourself sitting on your ar5e in the middle of the road - can happen anywhere, anytime. Not necessarily through speed, sometimes a little gravel, sometimes water or ice. But there is virtually nothing that can be dne about it - one second you are travelling along quite happily, the next checking all the scrapes on every joint and extremity.