Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[MrOzark]

I trust eyewitnesses and not the news and especially not anything coming from the gov or police.

As long as Thailand makes so much money from tourism, it will be hard for the reports to be honest. As long as the culture puts more importance on 'face' than truth and honesty, the Thai population will not be honest. As long as foreign visitors spend most of their time in bars and bitching to each other or ignoring the truth, the foreign visitors will have no say about how they are treated by any corrupt regime. I'm grateful that there is a place to discuss this and learn and that more and more people are becoming more awake and aware. Thailand isn't the only place, but that is no reason to dismiss the horrendous things that go on.

[Foggy Bottom]

Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right....

No, it depends on where the bullet exited. Front or Rear exit would be a better indicator.

Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired.

Does not say much as he could have been on top of the cop when the cop fired the gun. When he falls on the ground the trajectory of the bullet would show down into the mouth and shoulder even though the bullet was fired upwards when he was above the cop.

Circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted in many ways.

True - though the press reports all indicate he was standing when he fired

[thaiexp]

Bad things usually happen when you get drunk then insult, and assualt, the locals in any country. Imagine a Thai guy pushed a bloke on his arse in a east London, Glasgow or Manchester pub? He might not get shot but he would probably get beaten sensless or perhaps stabbed. In some parts of Thailand they prefer to use a gun.

Call me what you like, but if the story is true that the Canadian got drunk and started pushing people around, then serves him right. Considering his girlfriend got pregnant to a Thai bloke, one can only imagine what type of tourist we're talking about here.

Two years ago I witnessed a falang (English thug) beating up a random Thai girl outside the Q bar in Bangkok, for absolutely no reason. Everyone including the staff just stood back and watched. I intervened and got punched to the floor then the guy fled. I managed to get the Taxi drivers to locate him over the radio and hand him over to the Police. Hopefully he's still in Jail!

So the point is, My sympathy for falangs who cause trouble in Thailand?.....ZERO!

[JimsKnight]

The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.

What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!

Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.

If you want it like home, GO HOME!

[Ned]

This afternoon's Thai Rath ran the story on the front page, "Young Canadian tourist murdered."

Same reporting of events as TITV mentioned previously ie a domestic argument....the cop intervenes, gets into an argument and ends up shooting both the man and woman.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Gosh, such sensational posts! But for your information the woman (who as not the dead guy's wife), as of an hour ago, is safe and recovering in a Chiang Mai hospital after her gunshot wound to the chest. Perhaps it would be best to wait for some proper reporting before we all jump to fantastic conclusions and speculations.

[Prakanong]

The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.

What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!

Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.

If you want it like home, GO HOME!

So you are advocating the end of tourism to Thailand then as i am sure tourists do not want to vist a place where police have a history of shooting tourists while they are drunk and over a stupid thing like loss of face.

As a old asia hand though I am sure you know better (just how much time have you spent in Asia and how many countries in Asia have you lived, worked or visited outside Thailand?)

[dotcom]

I think the nadian was "accidentially shot to death" not murdered. Murder carries intent. POM's call this "misadventure" Great word.

[rafval]

Two years ago I witnessed a falang (English thug) beating up a random Thai girl outside the Q bar in Bangkok, for absolutely no reason. Everyone including the staff just stood back and watched. I intervened and got punched to the floor then the guy fled. I managed to get the Taxi drivers to locate him over the radio and hand him over to the Police. Hopefully he's still in Jail!

thats strange, I have seen numerous farang start fights with thais and every time about ten thais leap in and leave him in a mess, I would say he was very lucky

[JimsKnight]

The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.

What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!

Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.

If you want it like home, GO HOME!

So you are advocating the end of tourism to Thailand then as i am sure tourists do not want to vist a place where police have a history of shooting tourists while they are drunk and over a stupid thing like loss of face.

As a old asia hand though I am sure you know better (just how much time have you spent in Asia and how many countries in Asia have you lived, worked or visited outside Thailand?)

How is 'If you want it like home.....' advocating 'the end of tourism' a bit of a crossed wire on you're part there I think

What that statement means (if you look at it as an expat) is if people who who come here and live here wish to change the order of things and turn the place into some plastic Disney Land like in Europe or the US then they are wasting their time cause TIT.

Time spent in Asia has little to do about this subject.

8 years in SE Asia (not that I'm counting ) Happy?

Right now there's too much talk of 'change this and change that' uproar whenever a story like this breaks on TV.

So like I said if the sensationalists and drama queens keep their hair on we'll see what really happened soon enough...

Edited January 7, 2008 by JimsKnight

[lannarebirth]

Gosh, such sensational posts! But for your information the woman (who as not the dead guy's wife), as of an hour ago, is safe and recovering in a Chiang Mai hospital after her gunshot wound to the chest. Perhaps it would be best to wait for some proper reporting before we all jump to fantastic conclusions and speculations.

Will you be providing that? If so, when might it be expected? Thanks.

[Prakanong]

The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.

What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!

Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.

If you want it like home, GO HOME!

So you are advocating the end of tourism to Thailand then as i am sure tourists do not want to vist a place where police have a history of shooting tourists while they are drunk and over a stupid thing like loss of face.

As a old asia hand though I am sure you know better (just how much time have you spent in Asia and how many countries in Asia have you lived, worked or visited outside Thailand?)

How is 'If you want it like home.....' advocating 'the end of tourism' a bit of a crossed wire on you're part there I think

What that statement means (if you look at it as an expat) is if people who who come here and live here wish to change the order of things and turn the place into some plastic Disney Land like in Europe or the US then they are wasting their time cause TIT.

Time spent in Asia has little to do with this subject unless you advocate changing it into some plastic European Country?

8 years in SE Asia (not that I'm counting ) Happy?

Right now there's too much talk of 'change this and change that' uproar whenever a story like this breaks on TV.

So like I said if the sensationalists and drama queens keep their hair on we'll see what really happened soon enough...

I do not think people who live to vist should wish to change certain things but they should expect certain univeral human rights such as the right not to be shot in the street from Thai cops whose puny ego's have been insulted, after all that is what face is.

Face is much bigger (and an older tradition than the johnny come lately Thai's) in other Asian societies and policemen shooting tourists is not really on the agenda there.

The fact is there is something seriously wrong with Thai society - it is becoming more violent than other Asian societies outside the basket cases, lies, theft, corruption and other ills of society are seen as the norm in many secotrs of society - the roots of this are manifold and I support mass tourism and other cultural influences have their place.

Then we have farangs who positively revel in the death of this guy and post gloatingly over it - where are their values. If they feel like this then maybe Thai's see them as morally bankrupt as they are too?

I suppose Thailand is getting the visitors and pseudo-expats it deserves. The potless and semi legal visa runners are abouts its level.

[YoungAndRice]

im just curious, if it is were your father or brother would you still be saying

"well if you push an off duty thai cop you deserve to get shot in the mouth"?

seriously, what bloody planet are you guys from? sick.

Edited January 7, 2008 by YoungAndRice

[p_brownstone]

This on Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...KK9893820080107

Patrick

[LoveDaBlues]

Hey boys. If I'm a cop & some drunken yabbo goes for my service revolver I'll cap his @$$ before he gets a chance to assault me.

Most of what I read here says falang are great & Thai cops are not. Horsefeathers. The nadian got put down like a mad dog. Good work.

That's why decent police forces have a rigid screening process; to weed out your type.

I guess after you 'capped' the drunken yabbo you'd run away just like the Thai cop.

[LoveDaBlues]

We'd all be best to remember the best advice every given on TV (by GaryA).

"Keep a low profile". It's a shame the Canadians didn't heed this advice.

RIP

[lannarebirth]

This on Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/i...KK9893820080107

Patrick

Hmmmm, hippy "bodybuilder" who lived in Mae Hong Son and travelled to Pai frequently.

[JimsKnight]

The one I always try and adhere to is a thai one that was displayed in a Guesthouse I stayed at:

'Even if you are hot on the inside, you should always try and keep cool on the outside.'

I'm not really a 'gloating over it' kinda guy, but I am pretty indifferent to this incident as the bad thing's already happened and what's done is done I'm afraid.

Now it is time for the consequences, whatever they might be.....

Edited January 7, 2008 by JimsKnight

[Juztin]

Outside the bar, their argument turned physical and when a police officer tried to intervene the couple attacked him, Sombat said.

The officer, Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat, told investigators Del Pinto tried to grab his pistol and the gun "accidentally went off" three times, Sombat said.

The officer told investigators the shooting was an accident

3 shots, 2 people... is an accident??

Pulled the trigger twice on the guy... is an accident??

Re-aiming at the girlfriend and shooting her... is an accident??

I don't think so.

He said he had used the gun to threaten them when he was down on the ground after the couple beat him up.

Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder, and another shot on the left side of his torso, while Reisig, 24, was shot on the left side of her torso.

So.. What happened now? After the man (no police uniform, couldnt have known) had been beaten up, he then pulled his gun out and made threats, then the farang guy went for the gun? Is that right?

But then somehow managed to get the gun stuck in his mouth from a high enough angle so that the shot would go through his shoulder..

Hmmmm..

And then he shot the girl.

Or maybe after he was knocked down he got his gun out in anger and shot the woman in a drunken rage then the husband went after the gun..

But still; how was that angle achieved? Through the mouth into the shoulder..

Thai man drove off shouting in english 'I'LL KILL YOU'

shortly after the Tourist was eating at a resuturant and the Thai man came in and stuck a gun down the forgienners throat and shot him dead. It is also thought the forgineers girlfriend and possibly another was injured.

Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder,

Could it be?? That is what was said before police could possibly do a hush hush job right?

Edited January 7, 2008 by Juztin

[YoungAndRice]

photo released?

[mrdome]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

[tamsin]

Already, we've determined that an execution took place. I'd guess some beligerent tourists insulted the wrong Thai guy. He may or may not have been a cop, doesn't much matter now does it. Lesson learned: drink lots of water, walk slowly and respect the local population. Funny, works just about everywhere.

Yes, having had drunk lots of water, and walked slowly down my soi in Phuket at 8 am this morning, was threatened by little man in Big Shiny Car with "Fck You! Nex' time I come back SHOOT YOU!" - my offence? I had shouted at him to slow down his reversing as I and my dog were right behind him. Or Sunset, was I being beligerent and deserving to be shot dead?

Your kind makes me as sick as the All Thai Are Bad crowd.

[tokyosheep]

Already, we've determined that an execution took place. I'd guess some beligerent tourists insulted the wrong Thai guy. He may or may not have been a cop, doesn't much matter now does it. Lesson learned: drink lots of water, walk slowly and respect the local population. Funny, works just about everywhere.

can I say this?, I,am half and half ...<deleted> to any idea of kowtowing, showing respect for the culture ( which is what exactly...? )if it means backing down, do not back down from any of there cowards- none of them!

do not change anything, policeman or not,just do as a normal decent person would do and 99.9% of the time your be fine.

,most locals are a bunch of cowardly <deleted> who would,nt do anything without all their friends behind them or a gun,knife or whatever, or some high-so daddy, its pathetic! Get them on their own and they,re nothing.

one to one for people here does,nt exist, at heart I,am ashamed to say this-thais by and large ( not all of coures)are cowards, its just the typical primate mentality of a nation still with one foot in the rice paddy .They ( we) also see westeners as 'better' and so are more likely to act like a primate fool.

I hate it when i see people suggest that westeners should somehow act differently, why does,nt someone suggest that thailand grow up for a change- then we really would have something to be proud of instead of all this mindless propaganda we,re fed from day one

[LoveDaBlues]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

As you said you weren't there; so how do you know the dead guy's behavior was out of line?

hmmm...let's see......who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger? I'll take a wild guess and say the guy living had possession of the gun and pulled the trigger. The guy who was shot did not have possession of the gun and shoot himself twice. I really don't think this is a suicide.

Don't quit yer day job Sherlock.

[jomtienbob]

Yeah sure,

but please do not say things like "THIS IS THAILAND".

I come from Italy, and in my country Plocie KILL people quite often, and then construct any kind of obviously made-up defense. And judges, legal dooctors, all of them most of the times collude with the police.

In UK, if I don't go wrong, a brazilian guy has been shot in the head in the tube not long ago. And the responsibles? Have they been punished?

And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!

Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.

Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!

love

Pippo

Yep that's exactly right.

Why is it that once one idiot goes off the rails and commits murder under the cloak of authority does everyone brandish all Thais with the same brush.

Hey let's have a close look in our own glass houses before we start casting stones?!

Does the US invasion of Iraq not equate starkly by comparison when it is now almost universally agreed that they had no justification to do so? I put that in the murder basket! The poor Brazilian kid in the London tube was murdered etc and the list is quite long if you care too look.

All governments and institutions in authority and power cover up or "spin" the real story and facts to salvage the reputation of their own institutions regardless of what country you are in. This is not something found just in Thailand, it is perhaps that they are not quite as adroit at it as others. Gee the US government still have a large percentage of people believing that a Boeing 707 with a 44ft wingspan and 2 HUGE 9ft Pratt & Whitney engines made from Titanium could fit into the initial 16 ft hole in the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11! ..Ha!

Sadly though the Canadian guy is dead and there is nothing that will cure that now. If Thailand is such a dangerous place, someone name for me the last Thai mass/serial murderer, or one that blew up a building full of innocent people in a major city, or the last time a crazed kid(s) opened fire with automatic weapons in a school of any description. No this is generally a peaceful, non-confrontational society in comparison to our western catholic-based ones and the comparisons are stark and in most cases polar in comparison, but when the occasional exception sadly occurs here most foreigners want to kick all Thais in the same punching bag. I disagree strongly. They do have a long way to go in many areas of their justice system, but hey, 2-3 generations ago most of them were just farmers. If this was a Thai couple getting shot in New York by a drunk off duty cop it might make a small page 3 snippet and few people would even care less IMHO.

How about a bit of the "when in Rome" theorem here and not be to quick to criticize anything before they have their chance to step up to the plate. And even if they don't step up, they certainly aren't without good company in that field.

[Toomuchgoodman]

Nobody deserves to get shot like this, but there are some universal rules for behavior in a foreign country. At home, too! Just to keep you out of trouble.

Unfortunately, many tourists behave like conquerors, not guests.

[LiveSteam]

The fact is there is something seriously wrong with Thai society - it is becoming more violent than other Asian societies outside the basket cases, lies, theft, corruption and other ills of society are seen as the norm in many secotrs of society - the roots of this are manifold and I support mass tourism and other cultural influences have their place.

Well what do you expect with a PM like Thaksin who was nothing but a corporate raider in this case the corporation was Thailand. Even cops aren't respecting anyone any more. No one is being responsible for what they do, just blame someone else.

Hey when a fish is rotten it's rotten at the head.

LiveSteam

[mrdome]

I won't comment on the shots being fired as I wasn't there and it seems murky to me who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger BUT there is no excuse for the dead guy's behavior.

Not in the West and not in Thailand.

As you said you weren't there; so how do you know the dead guy's behavior was out of line?

hmmm...let's see......who had possession of the gun and who actually pulled the trigger? I'll take a wild guess and say the guy living had possession of the gun and pulled the trigger. The guy who was shot did not have possession of the gun and shoot himself twice. I really don't think this is a suicide.

Don't quit yer day job Sherlock.

The fact that he was drunk and aggressive and attacking people is undisputed. The focus for me is not on the outcome but how everything started.

I'm not sure what your point is. It's ok to to start drunken brawls in Thailand (or anywhere else for that matter) and start beating people up?

Edited January 7, 2008 by mrdome

[Grifter29]

Bad things usually happen when you get drunk then insult, and assualt, the locals in any country. Imagine a Thai guy pushed a bloke on his arse in a east London, Glasgow or Manchester pub? He might not get shot but he would probably get beaten sensless or perhaps stabbed. In some parts of Thailand they prefer to use a gun.

Call me what you like, but if the story is true that the Canadian got drunk and started pushing people around, then serves him right. Considering his girlfriend got pregnant to a Thai bloke, one can only imagine what type of tourist we're talking about here.

Two years ago I witnessed a falang (English thug) beating up a random Thai girl outside the Q bar in Bangkok, for absolutely no reason. Everyone including the staff just stood back and watched. I intervened and got punched to the floor then the guy fled. I managed to get the Taxi drivers to locate him over the radio and hand him over to the Police. Hopefully he's still in Jail!

So the point is, My sympathy for falangs who cause trouble in Thailand?.....ZERO!

I too don't like trouble makers in any country, my own, their own or the country they are visiting as a guest! But…

Serves him/ them right? Your point and probably also your thinking then is disturbingly close to the mentality of the policeman that shot the bloke! You think it was justified, so does the policeman probably. You really think it was justified?

We are only human, all be a bit spasticated on booze, but nobody deserves to be killed (shot, stabbed or whatever methods you prefer) for pushing someone around whether you're from Thailand, London, Manchester Afghanistan or frigging Iraq, perhaps in this situation, a bit of a pounding would have been more appropriate, but shot through the head? Hmm.

[samsara]

natural selection strikes again.

everyone involved has/had their problems. the woman is pregnant from an affair. the canadian man obviously is not a level-headed negotiator to put it mildly. the thai man's drunken state likely escalated matters. in my book, everyone is to blame for the eventual outcome. you play with fire, sometimes you get burnt. the canadian man died from his burns.

from the looks of things, its very probable that the real story will never surface. maybe the woman will come forth and clear matters up, maybe not. why hasnt she done so already? surely shes lucid enough to be interviewed???