Australian Aged Pension

[fishhooks]

Okay Harry, got that, but......What is the definition / formulae for determining "In Australia constantly" for the prior two years before application.

I understand you are mainly explaining the harsh rule for those that look to Centrelink as if they "could" be more or less planning to settle in another country for their retirement, yes Thailand for some of us!

But...How can an Australian male who is married to a Thai travel backward and forward and yes, constantly, DEFINITELY prove that they are only traveling O/S for family visits come holidays and thus not be in danger of the latter 2 year on the ground requirement?

On reading the case highlighted by 'actiondell4' not so far back in the thread, I figure it was very easy to see why Centrelink took the attitude that they did, but I'm just as sure many will be caught in the trap of not knowing how far they can go in taking holidays/family visits that are not indicative of settling elsewhere!

[rick75]

So Harry you told me in an earlier post they "can't spend a single day out of the country", but then you go onto say they can go out of the country so long as they have spent the previous two years in Australia, is that the previous two years prior to applying or the first two years after applying.

Just trying to clarify

cheers

[harrry]

So Harry you told me in an earlier post they "can't spend a single day out of the country", but then you go onto say they can go out of the country so long as they have spent the previous two years in Australia, is that the previous two years prior to applying or the first two years after applying.

Just trying to clarify

cheers

As far as I have been able to determine it is a full two years after receiving the pension or you can leave straight away if you were in Australia for 2 years before applying. THe Centrelink site www.centrelink.gov.au gives information under the international tab. Of special interest is the newsletter for australian penioners overseas downloadable from the site. One of them in the last few months gave a good coverage of this.

[fishhooks]

Okay, telephoned C/L International HQ in Tasmania this morning.

Spoke in detail with a nice guy and spelt out my very frequent travel to Thailand over recent years which will continue up to OAP application mid next year.

He assured me that no problem as long as ties have been maintained here, with no indication of actually living elsewhere.

He even went as far to say that should I have a problem with any mainland C/L when applying, that I would have no problem on appeal.

[kevjohn]

I was on the phone to Centrelink, Tasmania, this morning myself.

Also spoke to a nice young chap named Roban.

I asked him about the 2 year rule and he explained it this way.

If you have been out of Australia for a great lenth of time, say 6 months

for exaple then return and apply for the OAP then the 2 years is calculated

from the day you return.

eg.Return on the 01/03/2001 then 2 years is up on the 01/03/2013.

You can apply for the OAP any time in that time frame.

If you leave, for say, 2 x 1 month holidays duing that time you don't have to

add that time onto the 2 year period

but you would not be paid the OAP for that period that you are not in Australia.

Hope this is of some help.

[fishhooks]

The whole problem from what I've learnt on this topic over the long time it has been running, is those who are apparently more or less living O/S and then returning (some for a few days only) to claim the pension.

If you are able to demonstrate that infact your home base is here and that even long trips overseas are for holidays or family visits during the 2 year lead-up, you are quite safe.

Some C/L offices, mainly not in Tasmania, look at the Immigration stats of your departures and arrivals and immediately jump to the conclusion that Ah, this guy must be living overseas.

Owning your home here, having bank accounts which are regularly serviced here, having insurances such as Private Health, being in and using Medicare from time to time, having say a Thai Wife who is resident and living with you here, all go to prove that you are for all intents and purposes living here and not overseas.

Apparently after the OAP is granted, you can ship out as you desire, but personally to be safe, I'd wait a while!

I'm reasonably sure now that this paints an accurate picture of this whole question.

[kevjohn]

I was on the phone to Centrelink, Tasmania, this morning myself.

Also spoke to a nice young chap named Roban.

I asked him about the 2 year rule and he explained it this way.

If you have been out of Australia for a great lenth of time, say 6 months

for exaple then return and apply for the OAP then the 2 years is calculated

from the day you return.

eg.Return on the 01/03/2011 then 2 years is up on the 01/03/2013.

You can apply for the OAP any time in that time frame.

If you leave, for say, 2 x 1 month holidays duing that time you don't have to

add that time onto the 2 year period

but you would not be paid the OAP for that period that you are not in Australia.

Hope this is of some help.

had to edit return date to 01/03/2011

[eight]

Q. I have been out of the country [OZ ] for a few years, but still have a house [ rented ] a bank account, drivers lic, PO box, etc. and am still traveling on my NZ passport, but I am a OZ citizen, If I apply for my OZ passport 1 or 2 years before I apply for my OAP, and my new OZ pp shows say , just one 7 day trip abroad because I am still using a NZ pp. Do you think C/L would be wise to the real facts. Assuming I forgot [ lie] when I apply for the pension, about trips o/s

and I use my new OZ pp for one of the documents needed when applying?

[harrry]

Q. I have been out of the country [OZ ] for a few years, but still have a house [ rented ] a bank account, drivers lic, PO box, etc. and am still traveling on my NZ passport, but I am a OZ citizen, If I apply for my OZ passport 1 or 2 years before I apply for my OAP, and my new OZ pp shows say , just one 7 day trip abroad because I am still using a NZ pp. Do you think C/L would be wise to the real facts. Assuming I forgot [ lie] when I apply for the pension, about trips o/s

and I use my new OZ pp for one of the documents needed when applying?

Australia likes jailing houswives for not declaring a few dollars income....they call it Social Security fraud. You could always try your luck....free board and loging and you can probably live better in an Australian jail than in Australia on a pension.

[eight]

[quote

If you essentially live in Australia, maintain a residence, have active bank accounts, have utility expenses that you can prove are being paid by yourself and are liable for normal taxation each year, how can they say that you are not maintaining this 2 year qualification. Where is it written in any way that you, if you want a pension are not allowed to leave the shores.

Of course, if you declare yourself as a non resident for tax purposes, you have signed your own d---h warrant in respect of the above, but what about the "common man"........................What is the safe "away from here formula"?

I have sent 4 e/mails to C/link international, asking those same questions, thinking that having a hard copy would be better than a verbal answer, besides I'm half deaf on the phone and explained that to them. Each time they have answered saying refer to our web site, and we cannot give answers over the internet as it is not secure. Have asked to be put in contact with someone in authority , who I can write to, again my request was ignored.

[fishhooks]

'eight'

Have you actually gone to a C/L office and asked for an interview to discuss your situation. From what you say above it does sound a bit complex with what you want to do with in's and out's of here. If you can't do any good with the normal enquiry section, ask for an interview with a Social Worker.

If you are trying to do a 'shifty' though, as suggested above, you may not get far at all.

[eight]

'eight'

Have you actually gone to a C/L office and asked for an interview to discuss your situation. From what you say above it does sound a bit complex with what you want to do with in's and out's of here. If you can't do any good with the normal enquiry section, ask for an interview with a Social Worker.

If you are trying to do a 'shifty' though, as suggested above, you may not get far at all.

There is no c/link office in Asia ??? No I'm not trying to do a ''shifty, I just want to know, like many others, exactly what the rules are regarding being out of the country, but still being a resident in Australia. Knowing what the

c/link rules are will help in my planning for retirement in the future. eg: If the dont give me a OAP I would be better off selling my house now, and moving to Asia, and investing in a bissness

[Old Croc]

Q. I have been out of the country [OZ ] for a few years, but still have a house [ rented ] a bank account, drivers lic, PO box, etc. and am still traveling on my NZ passport, but I am a OZ citizen, If I apply for my OZ passport 1 or 2 years before I apply for my OAP, and my new OZ pp shows say , just one 7 day trip abroad because I am still using a NZ pp. Do you think C/L would be wise to the real facts. Assuming I forgot [ lie] when I apply for the pension, about trips o/s

and I use my new OZ pp for one of the documents needed when applying?

As an Australian citizen it is technically illegal for you to travel into Oz on a foreign (NZ) passport.

The reason is, as a citz you are exempt from (virtually all) of the provisions of the Australian Migration Act. So you are not required/entitled to get a visa.

(NZers do require a visa, and are granted one electronically upon arrival - there is no indication in the passport.)

Your movements into and out of Oz would be automatically linked in the Movements Data Base irrespective of which passport you travel on. Theoretically, if you attempt entry as a NZer, the Customs front line processing officer should be referring you to an immigration officer, who would then ask you to produce your Oz passport.

CL have access to the Movements Data Base these days and your, fully linked, travel would be displayed.

[fishhooks]

Sorry "eight" I missed somewhere that you are presently in Asia!

[afarang]

I got caught. In 2005, I returned to Oz, to claim the old age pension, after having lived in Thailand for 15 years, continuously. I had NO documentation required by C.L.. It was a real hassle getting all the documents they require. It took me 6 weeks to satisfy the requirements. You have to prove you have lived in Oz for a minimum number of years continuously. Fortunately I had my original passport that could prove that. Then I had to get a tax file no., driving licence, bank account, divorce papers,birth certificate, the list went on.Eventually I had enough documents to satisfy C.L..My pension was approved.BUT, I was then informed ,that as I had lived outside Oz for so long, I would have to spend a minimum of 2, yes 2 years as a permanent resident ,(That meant ,IF I went through Immigration, to go anywhere, my pension would be stopped ,as of that instant). Before my pension would become portable.and I could return to Thailand to live.This was a rule passed by the Howard Govt., due to the rorting of the system , by New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders. Unfortunately it was a rule passed in such a way, that it applied to everyone.And still now applies. So, be aware that if you spent more than 5 years living permanently outside of Oz, you must spend at least 2 years living permanently in Oz, before your pension becomes portable.

[eight]

As an Australian citizen it is technically illegal for you to travel into Oz on a foreign (NZ) passport.

The reason is, as a citz you are exempt from (virtually all) of the provisions of the Australian Migration Act. So you are not required/entitled to get a visa.

(NZers do require a visa, and are granted one electronically upon arrival - there is no indication in the passport.)

Your movements into and out of Oz would be automatically linked in the Movements Data Base irrespective of which passport you travel on. Theoretically, if you attempt entry as a NZer, the Customs front line processing officer should be referring you to an immigration officer, who would then ask you to produce your Oz passport.

CL have access to the Movements Data Base these days and your, fully linked, travel would be displayed.

Well I have been in and out of Australia ten times or more using my NZ passport and have had no problems. They always give me a imfo form which says i may be delayed while immigration check my OZ citizen statis.

but I have never had to wait more than 5 minuets.

[Artisi]

I got caught. In 2005, I returned to Oz, to claim the old age pension, after having lived in Thailand for 15 years, continuously. I had NO documentation required by C.L.. It was a real hassle getting all the documents they require. It took me 6 weeks to satisfy the requirements. You have to prove you have lived in Oz for a minimum number of years continuously. Fortunately I had my original passport that could prove that. Then I had to get a tax file no., driving licence, bank account, divorce papers,birth certificate, the list went on.Eventually I had enough documents to satisfy C.L..My pension was approved.BUT, I was then informed ,that as I had lived outside Oz for so long, I would have to spend a minimum of 2, yes 2 years as a permanent resident ,(That meant ,IF I went through Immigration, to go anywhere, my pension would be stopped ,as of that instant). Before my pension would become portable.and I could return to Thailand to live.This was a rule passed by the Howard Govt., due to the rorting of the system , by New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders. Unfortunately it was a rule passed in such a way, that it applied to everyone.And still now applies. So, be aware that if you spent more than 5 years living permanently outside of Oz, you must spend at least 2 years living permanently in Oz, before your pension becomes portable.

Correct, you are classed as being either a "Resident" or "Former Resident", if you are classed as a former resident the pension is not portable until 2 years of continuous residency.

[afarang]

I might add, that this law was not communicated to general Centrelink staff.I had dealings with 8 C.L. staff at Fitzroy, and a further 5 at Melton. not one of them knew about it. Only Hobart was aware. It was a phone call from Hobart ,after my pension was approved,that Melton C.L. was made aware of this law. The C.L. person, to whom I was with ,as he took the call, was visibly shaken. So, do not be surprised if C.L. staff, in the branches, do not know about it. Just be warned.

[eight]

<br />

<br />I got caught. In 2005, I returned to Oz, to claim the old age pension, after having lived in Thailand for 15 years, continuously. I had NO documentation required by C.L.. It was a real hassle getting all the documents they require. It took me 6 weeks to satisfy the requirements. You have to prove you have lived in Oz for a minimum number of years continuously. Fortunately I had my original passport that could prove that. Then I had to get a tax file no., driving licence, bank account, divorce papers,birth certificate, the list went on.Eventually I had enough documents to satisfy C.L..My pension was approved.BUT, I was then informed ,that as I had lived outside Oz for so long, I would have to spend a minimum of 2, yes 2 years as a permanent resident ,(That meant ,IF I went through Immigration, to go anywhere, my pension would be stopped ,as of that instant). Before my pension would become portable.and I could return to Thailand to live.This was a rule passed by the Howard Govt., due to the rorting of the system , by New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders. Unfortunately it was a rule passed in such a way, that it applied to everyone.And still now applies. So, be aware that if you spent more than 5 years living permanently outside of Oz, you must spend at least 2 years living permanently in Oz, before your pension becomes portable.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Correct, you are classed as being either a "Resident" or "Former Resident", if you are classed as a former resident the pension is not portable until  2 years of continuous residency.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

So are we saying that you can be classed as a resident because you have a house, drivers licence, bank acc, medicare card, PO box, all with your house address on them, but you have lived, or should we say , been outside OZ for the previous 2 years?

[eight]

<br />

<br />

<br />I got caught. In 2005, I returned to Oz, to claim the old age pension, after having lived in Thailand for 15 years, continuously. I had NO documentation required by C.L.. It was a real hassle getting all the documents they require. It took me 6 weeks to satisfy the requirements. You have to prove you have lived in Oz for a minimum number of years continuously. Fortunately I had my original passport that could prove that. Then I had to get a tax file no., driving licence, bank account, divorce papers,birth certificate, the list went on.Eventually I had enough documents to satisfy C.L..My pension was approved.BUT, I was then informed ,that as I had lived outside Oz for so long, I would have to spend a minimum of 2, yes 2 years as a permanent resident ,(That meant ,IF I went through Immigration, to go anywhere, my pension would be stopped ,as of that instant). Before my pension would become portable.and I could return to Thailand to live.This was a rule passed by the Howard Govt., due to the rorting of the system , by New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders. Unfortunately it was a rule passed in such a way, that it applied to everyone.And still now applies. So, be aware that if you spent more than 5 years living permanently outside of Oz, you must spend at least 2 years living permanently in Oz, before your pension becomes portable.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Correct, you are classed as being either a &quot;Resident&quot; or &quot;Former Resident&quot;, if you are classed as a former resident the pension is not portable until  2 years of continuous residency.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />So are we saying that you can be classed as a resident because you have a house, drivers licence, bank acc, medicare card, PO box, all with your house address on them, but you have lived, or should we say , been outside OZ for the previous 2 years?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

And to add to that, in my case , have lodged a tax return every year, and am on the electrol roll.

[fishhooks]

What 'may' catch some out is not what they have on paper in Australia, but the in's and out's through Immigration at the airport.

All these are nicely tabulated in Centrelink records and if these movements 'tell a story' of short visits to Australia over a period of time, rather than visits to overseas with your feet mainly on the ground here, I think this is where difficulties may arise.

[ozzydom]

Add the fact that citizen and resident are not one and the same.

[afarang]

<br />

<br />

<br />I got caught. In 2005, I returned to Oz, to claim the old age pension, after having lived in Thailand for 15 years, continuously. I had NO documentation required by C.L.. It was a real hassle getting all the documents they require. It took me 6 weeks to satisfy the requirements. You have to prove you have lived in Oz for a minimum number of years continuously. Fortunately I had my original passport that could prove that. Then I had to get a tax file no., driving licence, bank account, divorce papers,birth certificate, the list went on.Eventually I had enough documents to satisfy C.L..My pension was approved.BUT, I was then informed ,that as I had lived outside Oz for so long, I would have to spend a minimum of 2, yes 2 years as a permanent resident ,(That meant ,IF I went through Immigration, to go anywhere, my pension would be stopped ,as of that instant). Before my pension would become portable.and I could return to Thailand to live.This was a rule passed by the Howard Govt., due to the rorting of the system , by New Zealanders and Pacific Islanders. Unfortunately it was a rule passed in such a way, that it applied to everyone.And still now applies. So, be aware that if you spent more than 5 years living permanently outside of Oz, you must spend at least 2 years living permanently in Oz, before your pension becomes portable.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Correct, you are classed as being either a "Resident" or "Former Resident", if you are classed as a former resident the pension is not portable until 2 years of continuous residency.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />So are we saying that you can be classed as a resident because you have a house, drivers licence, bank acc, medicare card, PO box, all with your house address on them, but you have lived, or should we say , been outside OZ for the previous 2 years?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

And to add to that, in my case , have lodged a tax return every year, and am on the electrol roll.

Be aware that it appears C.L.is directly linked to Immigration arrivals and departures. I was specifically told, that if I attempted to leave,my pension would be stopped, the moment I passed through Immigration. The Law is that you must have spent a minimum 2 years out of the last 5 as a permanent resident, for your pension to be portable. That appears to be the only requirement for portability.

[afarang]

Add the fact that citizen and resident are not one and the same.

Absolutely correct. Citizen tells that you have or are entitled to have an Australian Passport. Resident is about the time spent as a permanent resident, living in Aust., For portability of the old-age pension. You must have spent a minimum of 2 out of the last 5 years , as a permanent resident IN Aust..Be very aware ,it appears that C.L is directly linked to Immigration computers, and know as much about your International movements ,as you do.

[fishhooks]

"Be very aware ,it appears that C.L is directly linked to Immigration computers, and know as much about your International movements ,as you do"

Absolutely correct, I've been a client of C/L in the past and have seen these 'movements' listed in great detail.

Several over the last 5 years, some departures around 3 months in duration and in a couple of cases twice in a single year.

But, I am resident here and essentially live here.

Married to a Thai, these trips are primarily for family visits, but I imagine when OAP application comes around a few eyebrows may be raised! That is from your normal mainland C/L office.

I've been assured by the Tasmanian office that should I have initial problems, a re-visit of the application by going up the ladder a bit should solve any difficulty!

[Jessi]

This has just been brought to my attention.

Minister Jenny Macklin's Second Reading Speech, upon presentation of the bill to parliament:

Wednesday, 20 October 2010

Page: 3

This is just an extract from her speech but if passed it will affect all Australians on DSP who wish to spend any length of time outside of Australia, NEXT on the list is Old Age Pensions.

The bill will also include amendments to close a loophole in qualification for disability support pension. This loophole has allowed continued payment of disability support pension to people who live permanently overseas but return to Australia every 13 weeks in order to retain their pension.

From 1 January 2011, only disability support pensioners permanently residing in Australia will continue to receive the pension, except under limited and specific circumstances. This change will bring disability support pension into line with other workforce age payments.

Closing this loophole will keep the disability support pension payment system fair and effective. Any pensioners who have a need to travel overseas for short periods will still have access to the 13-week temporary absence rule.

If she gets this passed I can see a mass exodis from S.E. Asia, so do something now start writing to your local members.

[sceadugenga]

Anyone concerned about this matter, give me a PM please

[ozzydom]

Jessi " NEXT on the list is Old Age Pensions."

From where do you glean this information ,? or are you trying a little scaremongering?

Those of us long term expats who receive our OA pensions into local bank accounts are listed at Centrelink as overseas recipients ,do you really think a government is going to suddenly change the rules and uproot us from our families. not likely.

The rules regarding OAP are quite explicit with the residency requirement being the only bone of contention whereas the disability support pension is open to rorting on a grand scale.

Maybe Centrelink should have two grades of DSP ,one being classed as permanently disabled and another being capable with treatment and retraining to re-enter the work force.

[afarang]

And actually save the govt. a stack of money.We only get the pension, NONE of the ancillary benefits, like Medicare ,rent assistance, power,public transport ,etc.,etc..Their only argument could be that we are not spending the money in OZ..And we do pay Oz bloody bank fees,rapacious bastards that they are.

[ozzydom]

And actually save the govt. a stack of money.We only get the pension, NONE of the ancillary benefits, like Medicare ,rent assistance, power,public transport ,etc.,etc..Their only argument could be that we are not spending the money in OZ..And we do pay Oz bloody bank fees,rapacious bastards that they are.

Not quite correct ,as of 20/09/09 a supplement of $115:40 per month was added to the pension rates in lieu of many of the old ancillary payments . see below

the introduction of the Pension Supplement which combines the GST Supplement, Pharmaceutical Allowance, Utilities Allowance and internet rate of Telephone Allowance into the new Pension Supplement and an additional increase, which will be paid fortnightly.

Lets be a bit fair,do you really expect the Oz people through taxation to pay things like medical expenses and rent assistance when it is our choice to live outside Oz.

I knew 12 years ago when I came here that I would forego these benefits and so did anybody else leaving Oz permanently.

As for bank fees ,you can arrange for your pension to be paid directly to the foreign bank of your choice at no cost to you.