Australian Aged Pension

[dennis3506]

A friend of mine has lived in Thailand for the last five years and will turn 65 next year. He was advised by Centrelink in Australia that he will have to return to Australia and live there for two years before he can be paid the aged pension outside Australia. I am 65 myself and confirmed with Centrelink that if I decide to retire to Thailand that the pension can be still paid without any problems. My friend was unaware that he had to live in Australia for two years prior to being granted the aged pension. He is an Australian citizen who has worked in Austalia all his life except for the last 5 years since he retired.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

[jackspratt]

There is an entire thread on this subject here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Australian-A...on-t163135.html

[harrry]

A friend of mine has lived in Thailand for the last five years and will turn 65 next year. He was advised by Centrelink in Australia that he will have to return to Australia and live there for two years before he can be paid the aged pension outside Australia. I am 65 myself and confirmed with Centrelink that if I decide to retire to Thailand that the pension can be still paid without any problems. My friend was unaware that he had to live in Australia for two years prior to being granted the aged pension. He is an Australian citizen who has worked in Austalia all his life except for the last 5 years since he retired.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

Sad to say this is true. Check the Centrelink website for details.

No way round it I know of. It was made to stop people who lived overseas coming back claiming and then leaving again.

Search this forum for more topics but many of the posts are inacurate.

[harrry]

Just to clarify. He can be paid the minute he arives in Australia. But his pension is suspended if he leaves within two years. saddly although he can get paid for a 13 week holiday overseas I believe the 2 year clock starts again on his return.

[fishhooks]

jackspratt:

I think the thread you are pointing at is this one!

[GungaDin]

Dennis didn't know that this topic was running.

It's been merged.

[Artisi]

A friend of mine has lived in Thailand for the last five years and will turn 65 next year. He was advised by Centrelink in Australia that he will have to return to Australia and live there for two years before he can be paid the aged pension outside Australia. I am 65 myself and confirmed with Centrelink that if I decide to retire to Thailand that the pension can be still paid without any problems. My friend was unaware that he had to live in Australia for two years prior to being granted the aged pension. He is an Australian citizen who has worked in Austalia all his life except for the last 5 years since he retired.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

Go back to about posting #140 and start from there - lots of info.

[panork]

I have been reading these posts for a while now, but am still confused. The Centrelink website is not exactly helpful.

There seems to be little doubt that a 2 year waiting period for the payment of the Age Pension to Australian citizens of 65 years, or older, returning from an extended stay overseas and intending to keep on living overseas.

What I would like to find out is if this waiting period also applies to returning citizens of pensionable age who will remain in Australia for at least 2 years.

I would be very grateful for any authoritative information, including the relevant reference(s) if available.

[harrry]

I have been reading these posts for a while now, but am still confused. The Centrelink website is not exactly helpful.

There seems to be little doubt that a 2 year waiting period for the payment of the Age Pension to Australian citizens of 65 years, or older, returning from an extended stay overseas and intending to keep on living overseas.

What I would like to find out is if this waiting period also applies to returning citizens of pensionable age who will remain in Australia for at least 2 years.

I would be very grateful for any authoritative information, including the relevant reference(s) if available.

You are eligible as soon as you return to australia. ( If you otherwise qualify). However if you leave Australia within 2 years it will be suspended.

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/inte...t019_0703en.pdf

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/inte...ional/index.htm

How do I find out more?

For more information about Centrelink International Services, you can:

* view the Centrelink International Services factsheet in the We Speak Your Language section of the website

* phone 13 1673 from within Australia or see International Numbers if you are outside Australia

* fax (03) 6222 2799 from within Australia or +61 3 6222 2799 if you are outside Australia

* email [email protected]

* send a letter to Centrelink International Services at GPO Box 273, Hobart TAS 7001, Australia.

As this is the most importanty it may be best to phone them.

note If you are on a disability support pension you can transfer otherwise not.

[harrry]

Note to moderators.

As this thread contains a whole range of incorrect or misleading posts among the gems of wisdom and it is one of great importance to many australians would it be possible to start a new thread with the correct information and references and consider not merging the other threads with it.

[panork]

Note to moderators.

As this thread contains a whole range of incorrect or misleading posts among the gems of wisdom and it is one of great importance to many australians would it be possible to start a new thread with the correct information and references and consider not merging the other threads with it.

This is a great idea. But how can we tell the difference between correct and incorrect information?

I am having problems accessing the two centrelink links. Internet is malfunctioning not only in Thailand.

[harrry]

Note to moderators.

As this thread contains a whole range of incorrect or misleading posts among the gems of wisdom and it is one of great importance to many australians would it be possible to start a new thread with the correct information and references and consider not merging the other threads with it.

This is a great idea. But how can we tell the difference between correct and incorrect information?

I am having problems accessing the two centrelink links. Internet is malfunctioning not only in Thailand.

I think the problem is with the TV software today. I know I can't access links by clicking but only by copying and pasting. This wont work with the above links as they are too long but you could try the centrelink page www.centrelink.gov.au and then look for overseas etc. Note British spelling.

[panork]

Harry

I have had a look at the international section of the Centrelink website, but cannot find any reference to the suspension of Age Pension payments if one leaves Australia within 2 years.

Does this apply only to permanent absences or also to short term overseas travel, for example overseas holidays?

Your assistance would, once again, be greatly appreciated.

[harrry]

From http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/inte...o030_0809en.pdf

For age pension

Residential requirements

■ Must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day the

claim is lodged, unless claiming under an International Social

Security Agreement.

■ Must have been an Australian resident for a total of at

least 10 years, at least fi ve of these years in one continuous

period, or

■ Residence in certain countries with which Australia has an

International Social Security Agreement may count towards

Australian residence, or

■ Have a qualifying residence exemption (arrived as a refugee

or under a special humanitarian program), or

■ A woman who is widowed in Australia, when both she and

her late partner were Australian residents and who has

104 weeks residence immediately prior to claim, or

■ Person was in receipt of Widow B Pension, Widow Allowance,

Mature Age Allowance or Partner Allowance immediately

before turning age pension age.

■ Can generally be paid for the total period of absence from

Australia (some exemptions may apply), however, after

26 weeks the rate may change.

Note: special rules in the case of travel to New Zealand, or if

covered by an International Social Security Agreeme

[Artisi]

panork - the suspension to your payments only applies if you have been out of the country for a 2 year or more period prior to applying and you are deemed by Centrelink to be a " former resident" under the portability provision - sorry I don't have a link to it.

If you go back in the posts 140# or so and read forward you will see a couple of posts I made re being classified as a former resident and the steps I took to be re-classifies as a resident - maybe I was lucky or just persistent.

[harrry]

I know this is a huge post but it covers whether you can leave Australia and continue to get the pension. I have made the most important part for most bold.

http://www.facsia.gov.au/guides_acts/ssg/s...e-7.1.1.10.html

7.1.1.10 Overview of Portability Legislation

Introduction

General portability (1.1.P.310) of pensions started on 8 May 1973. The legislation for portability is in Part 4.2 of the Social Security Act 1991 and in the Social Security (International Agreements) Act 1999, which give effect to international social security agreements (1.1.A.120).

Full details about each of Australia's Social Security Agreements are in Part 10 of the Guide to Social Security Law. Details of the 2002 New Zealand Social Security Agreement can be found in the Guide to Social Security Law.

Act reference: SSAct Part 4.2 Overseas portability

Policy reference: SS Guide Part 10 Australian Social Security Agreements, 10.2 Agreement with New Zealand 2002

Where do I find …?

If you need to refer to:

portability under International Social Security Agreements see 7.1.1.30 Summary of Portability under International Social Security Agreements,

portability of benefits in New Zealand see 7.1.3.10 Portability Provisions for Recipients Paid Under the 1995 Agreement with New Zealand Going to New Zealand or to Another Country and 7.1.3.20 Portability & Rate Under the 2002 Agreement with New Zealand,

requirements for former residents receiving a portable pension or BVA see 7.1.4 Requirements for Former Residents of Australia Receiving a Portable Pension, and/or

a comprehensive table listing conditions for payment overseas see 7.1.5.60 Portability Table.

Development of portability legislation

Since general portability of Australian pensions began in 1973, there have been a number of important changes including:

introducing, with savings provisions (1.1.S.40), AWLR (1.1.A.340) and proportional portability (1.1.P.310) for pensions granted after 1 July 1986,

ceasing the portability of CP from 1 October 1987, except under some international social security agreements, but re-introducing short term portability in 1992,

limiting portability of SPP to the first 12 months of an absence from 1 July 1988, except for 'special widows', or people who were receiving the payment under an international social security agreement (1.1.A.120) that provided extended portability,

introducing departure certificates from 1 February 1989,

limiting the portability of WP and WidB from 1 July 1991,

limiting the portability of DSP from 12 November 1991,

introducing amendments to departure certificate provisions providing for a post-departure review when no departure certificate had been issued for departures on or after 1 January 1995,

amalgamating PgA and SPP into PP from 20 March 1998. Upon introduction, PP was portable for temporary absences of up to 26 weeks, compared with 12 months for SPP and 13 weeks for PgA. Savings provisions existed for former recipients of SPP who were overseas when PP was introduced,

repeal of departure certificate provisions from 20 September 2000,

introducing standardised and simplified portability rules - giving most payments up to 26 weeks of portability for temporary absences - from 20 September 2000, and

introducing a savings provision for some pension recipients from 20 September 2000 to enable them to continue under pre 20 September 2000 conditions until they return to Australia for a period of greater than 26 weeks.

Portability rules introduced on 1 July 2004

From 1 July 2004 generally all payments are portable for up to 13 weeks (for most payments, only for temporary absences). Specific conditions must be met for some payments. This includes severely disabled DSP recipients who previously had unlimited portability.

The 13 week portability period is subject to continuing qualification for the payment and nothing in the portability rules confers a right on a recipient to continue to be paid if the recipient is not qualified for the payment (section 1212D). This means that qualification for the payment overrides any portability provisions.

Portability is defined in terms of payability, i.e. as long as a person qualifies for a payment the payment can be paid for temporary absences of up to 13 weeks. Ancillary payments such as RA and PhA are also portable for up to 26 weeks (13 weeks for TAL) for temporary absences only if the main payment is portable indefinitely.

Entitled WidB, entitled WP and Age are portable indefinitely. Terminally ill DSP recipients, who are severely disabled, may also have unlimited portability for permanent departures. These recipients with unlimited portability may have their payments proportionalised after 26 weeks of absence if their AWLR is less than 25 years (there are special rules if the recipient is departing to New Zealand). Some of these recipients may also retain the 20 September 2000 savings provision (see below).

Provisions introduced on 20 September 2000 (continue to apply from 1 July 2004)

If extreme circumstances beyond the recipient's control arise after departure and prevent a recipient, who has a limited portability period, from returning to Australia the portability period may be extended under the Secretary's discretionary waiver power.

A pension granted to a former resident who resumes Australian residency is not portable for the first 24 months following their resumption of residence in Australia. There is NO discretionary power to allow for portability in this period.

Act reference: SSAct schedule 1A clause 128 Saving provision - portability rules relating to rates of pension

General savings provisions introduced on 1 July 2004

Recipients overseas immediately before 1 July 2004 are subject to the rules under which they departed until they return to Australia.

Example: A PP recipient given 26 weeks' portability on 14 June 2004 can continue with that absence. However, any absence starting on or after 1 July 2004 will be under the new rules (generally 13 weeks).

DSP savings provisions introduced on 1 July 2004

DSP recipients who were outside Australia immediately before 1 July 2004 with unlimited portability may keep that unlimited portability for any departure on or after 1 July 2004 providing they have not returned to Australia for permanent residence.

If these recipients return temporarily, they will not be entitled to ancillary payments such as RA and PhA, or entitled to a concession card. This is because they are not Australian residents. If a recipient chooses to resume Australian residency (and therefore entitlements to ancillary payments, e.g. concession cards), then they will lose the savings provision and any new absence will be under the new rules.

If DSP recipients continue to be payable indefinitely under this savings provision, they will retain their previous proportional rate exemptions and rules (including pre 20 September 2000 rules if applicable).

Act reference: SSAct schedule 1A clause 135 Unlimited maximum portability period for disability support pension

20 September 2000 savings provision (continues to apply from 1 July 2004)

Age, entitled WP and entitled WidB recipients who were overseas before 20 September 2000 and who have not since returned to Australia for a period of 26 weeks or more are to be paid their portable pensions under the pre 20 September 2000 rules.

Age and WidB recipients (who were granted before 2 July 1986 or who were Australian residents on 8 May 1985, and left Australia for any country before 1 January 1996, or, after that date for a country with which Australia does NOT have a social security agreement) will not have their rate proportionalised. In some circumstances Age and WidB recipients can use their partner's (or former partner's) AWLR in determining their proportional rate.

Note: The above rules MAY also continue to apply to DSP 'saved' overseas on 1 July 2004 (as above) for as long as they retain that 1 July 2004 saving.

DSP recipients granted on or after 12 November 1991 who are not severely disabled, and wife and WidB pensioners who are not entitled may still have their 20 September savings provision (allowing them 12 months of portability) for absences that commenced prior to 1 July 2004. These recipients were overseas immediately before 20 September 2000 and have not since returned for more than 26 weeks although they have returned every year for a short period to 'renew' their 12 months' portability period. Once these recipients return to Australia this savings provision will be lost and they will generally be limited to 13 weeks' portability for any departure commencing on or after 1 July 2004.

Note: The following exemptions from proportionality were not altered by either the 20 September 2000 or 1 July 2004 changes:

Recipients who are receiving DSP because they became unable to work or permanently blind while they were Australian residents (can only apply to DSP recipients who are actually payable long-term, e.g. terminally ill, or saved 1 July 2004, residing overseas), or

Recipients who became qualified for BVA or WidB because of the death of the recipient's partner who was an Australian resident.

Act reference: SSAct section 1220B(2) Proportionality-disability support pension rate for a severely disabled person, section 1221(2) Proportionality-wife pension and widow B pension rate for entitled persons, schedule 1A clause 128 Saving provision - portability rules relating to rates of pension

_______________________________________________________

Last reviewed: 7 April 2008

Edited October 3, 2008 by harrry

[panork]

Harry

Thanks a lot for this major research.

This legislation reminds of my time as an assessor and investigator in the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). We preferred to refer to commercial publications (CCH and Butterworth), rather than the Income Tax Assessment Act, for the interpretation of the law.

It would appear to me that temporary absences are permitted during the two year waiting period.

[harrry]

Harry

Thanks a lot for this major research.

This legislation reminds of my time as an assessor and investigator in the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). We preferred to refer to commercial publications (CCH and Butterworth), rather than the Income Tax Assessment Act, for the interpretation of the law.

It would appear to me that temporary absences are permitted during the two year waiting period.

I cannot guarantee this but from all I have found they are not. Apparently they may pay you for the short temporary absence however I understand that on return to Australia the waiting period starts again.

[panork]

Thanks once again Harry. I was mainly concerned that the waiting period might apply to all eligible citizens of pensionable age, even those residing in Australia after a long overseas absence.

Apparently the Australian age pension system is currently under review, as part of the review of the Australian tax system. A report is due early next year. Please refer to the following report for more details.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/internet/facsint...sion_review.htm

[Artisi]

Harry

Thanks a lot for this major research.

This legislation reminds of my time as an assessor and investigator in the Australian Taxation Office (ATO). We preferred to refer to commercial publications (CCH and Butterworth), rather than the Income Tax Assessment Act, for the interpretation of the law.

It would appear to me that temporary absences are permitted during the two year waiting period.

I cannot guarantee this but from all I have found they are not. Apparently they may pay you for the short temporary absence however I understand that on return to Australia the waiting period starts again.

During my time of negotiations with Centrelink re - classification as "Resident or Former Resident" I was made very clear that if you are being treated as a Former Resident and you leave at anytime during the 24 month period your payments stop and you need re-apply on your return and the 24 month waiting period re-starts. During negotiations I discussed the possibility of having payment stopped for a short period ie, 2 weeks for o/seas travel to visit family but advised - NO - payment stops and you need to re-apply as there is no provision in the portability act for temp. absence.

[fishhooks]

I reckon I'm fairly well versed in the English Language, but this is all getting very complex.

I think "panorks" post re what he and others used to do whilst they worked for the ATO is very real regards as getting the true picture from commercial sources.

So, as this thread is mainly about qualifying for the OAP, is there anyone who can perhaps quantify a short list of tips for those of us still mailnly resident (living, banking, paying taxes etc etc in Australia) with say two plus years to go before hitting 65.

In the main I'm sure most Australian members of Thai Visa fall into the category of keeping our feet on Thai Soil a major part of the time for our retirement years, thus a set of guide lines of how NOT to get disqualified from the Pension is very appropriate to this thread and hopefully some of us can tailor our lives during this important 2 year period to stay on the right side of the fence.

Obviously a major concern is understanding just how much time (sum of all trips or length of any particular trip?), one can spend in Thailand during this 2 year envelope, where it is seen to be normal holidays or visiting relatives.

There must be a guide line somewhere in the departments rules, perhaps it's secret!

[harrry]

I reckon I'm fairly well versed in the English Language, but this is all getting very complex.

I think "panorks" post re what he and others used to do whilst they worked for the ATO is very real regards as getting the true picture from commercial sources.

So, as this thread is mainly about qualifying for the OAP, is there anyone who can perhaps quantify a short list of tips for those of us still mailnly resident (living, banking, paying taxes etc etc in Australia) with say two plus years to go before hitting 65.

In the main I'm sure most Australian members of Thai Visa fall into the category of keeping our feet on Thai Soil a major part of the time for our retirement years, thus a set of guide lines of how NOT to get disqualified from the Pension is very appropriate to this thread and hopefully some of us can tailor our lives during this important 2 year period to stay on the right side of the fence.

Obviously a major concern is understanding just how much time (sum of all trips or length of any particular trip?), one can spend in Thailand during this 2 year envelope, where it is seen to be normal holidays or visiting relatives.

There must be a guide line somewhere in the departments rules, perhaps it's secret!

Telephone them in Hobart They are very helpful. You have nothing to lose but your phone call. But don't take what other people in centrelink tell you as gospel.

[sceadugenga]

Kevin Rudd's Christmas cheer with Economic Security Strategy

MORE than six million Australians will collect a pre-Christmas gift of $1000 or more from the Rudd Government as it tries to insulate the nation from the global economic slowdown.

The Government will spend $10.4 billion on an emergency "Economic Security Strategy", which includes a huge cash handout of $1000 per child to almost two million families early in December.

The Government hopes the cash injection will help stave off a recession, but is prepared to spend even more if necessary.

In his first televised address to the nation last night, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd warned that Australia faced tough times.

"The truth is that we are going through the worst financial crisis in our lifetime. As Prime Minister, my job is to level with the Australian people," he said.

"I don't intend to gild the lily. There will be tough times ahead."

But the PM said he was determined to act early to try to head off a recession by giving immediate spending money to pensioners, carers, families, and first-home buyers.

Single pensioners will receive a lump sum payment of $1400 while pensioner couples will receive $2100.

War veterans, self-funded retirees who hold a Senior Health Card, carers and disability recipients are also eligible for the payments, which will strip $4.8 billion from the Budget.

Families who receive Family Tax Benefit A will be eligible for the $1000-per-child bonus, at a total cost of $3.9 billion.

[roskruge]

I would like to know if anyone should hear, if the One Of Payment - "Single pensioners will receive a lump sum payment of $1400" Due to be paid on 8th Dec 2008. Will it be paid to Australians receiving the Pension on a regular basis in Thailand ?.

Also the last three pension payments are now appearing in my Kasikorn Bank on the Monday and not the Tuesday. This is a SWIFT direct payment from Hobart.

[fishhooks]

Will be interesting to see if it happens roskruge.

One of the primary objects of the "handout" was to get such money spent in Australia to help the economy.

Perhaps they may consider that A$ money going to Baht won't help in Oz.

[jackspratt]

I would like to know if anyone should hear, if the One Of Payment - "Single pensioners will receive a lump sum payment of $1400" Due to be paid on 8th Dec 2008. Will it be paid to Australians receiving the Pension on a regular basis in Thailand ?.

Also the last three pension payments are now appearing in my Kasikorn Bank on the Monday and not the Tuesday. This is a SWIFT direct payment from Hobart.

For $1400 it may be worth setting up an Oz bank account, and get your pension paid into that account for a while. You could later close it down, and revert to your current arrangements.

It would take a lot of transfers from Oz to Thailand to eat up $1400 in fees.

[fishhooks]

I think roskruge just wants to know if he is "eligible or not" for the actual payment?

I wish him luck!

[roskruge]

8.20am Bangkok time 27/10/2008 I have only just put the phone down after speaking with Centrelink Hobart. I posed the question to the adviser, do I qualify for the payment. He said 'We have only this morning received the news that overseas recipients will qualify", (for the singles $1,400.00 payment). "It has not been the case previously, on lump sum payouts, but in this case overseas recipients do qualify". Whooooooo Weeeeee

p.s. just sad the Auss dollar at the moment is very low against the Thai Baht, at time of writing Aus$1.00 = 21.584107 Thai Baht.

But anyway "Thank You" Kevin R and your team.

[fishhooks]

Hobart C/L seem a nice lot compared to the mainland!

[Gerald14]

Just a bit added to clarify the Australian Centrelink isue. I have lived and worked 24 years and 6 months in Australia and have become Australian citizen. After 26 weeks my full age pension reduces to 293/300 parts (so I lose about 3% big deal) and one loses also any supplements like phone or pharmaceutical allowance. If I go to Australia and register with Centrelink it reverts to the full amount. Medication in Thailand is cheap, I pay about the same than in Australia when I use my concession card

Thanks for the link, david96.

I'm married (TW) with a 7y/o son (Oz citizen).

If I'm reading the info. on that link correctly:

I could have an income of up to A$ 6,000 p/a or assets of up to A$ 357,500 and receive the full AP.

I could earn less than A$ 60,000 p/a or have assets less than A$ 960,500 and receive part AP.

I would need to return to Oz and become a resident.

My wife would probably need to sell our family house, and the house her family live in here in Thailand, for us to prove residency in Oz.

While it is good to know that the 'safety net' is there if things go tits-up here, the above does not sound attractive, especially when you consider the cost of living in Oz compared to that of Thailand.

If you own a property in Australia that is non income earning and you live there it is not part of your assets as far as a pension is concerned. If you were to rent it out it would become an income producing asset. I would get the opinion of a chartered accountant in Australia regarding any Thai property that your wife owns, they would give you the correct advice.

The first point is not exactly right, 'The property you own and in which you reside is not assessable for either the income or assets test.

Do not bother with Accountants in Australia when it comes to Centrelink they do not know shiiite from clay. The only authorative person is the Centrelink Case Officer.

Be prepared to fill in a book as big as Tolstoy's War and Peace and divulge every aspect of your life if you want a Health Card or OAP.

All assets Real "as defined by the law of Torts" and cash anywhere in the world must be declared, if you do not want to commit fraud when you sign Centrelink Documents.