Crackdown On Smoking At Pubs, Enteratinment Venues

[mrtoad]

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Yes, you are extremelly passionate considering you have only posted twice in 5 years, but I think that you are being far to agressive towards the owner about this. At present, they still do not have to enforce it, so it's pretty much up to him.I can't see that he's going to lose many of the customers that he already has, becasue he hasn't danced to the tune of the anti-smoking brigade.

Gullivers, a good alternative. Don't make me laugh. A bar that is full of working girls, with no live entertainment, full of sexpats, poor service and a lousy selection of beers. I think I'll stick to an environment that has the most important ingredients of a pub, and put up with the smoke as it really doesn't bother me one bit, and I am not a smoker. Think I'll give Gullivers a miss though.

[BangkokWildcat]

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Yes, you are extremelly passionate considering you have only posted twice in 5 years, but I think that you are being far to agressive towards the owner about this. At present, they still do not have to enforce it, so it's pretty much up to him.I can't see that he's going to lose many of the customers that he already has, becasue he hasn't danced to the tune of the anti-smoking brigade.

Gullivers, a good alternative. Don't make me laugh. A bar that is full of working girls, with no live entertainment, full of sexpats, poor service and a lousy selection of beers. I think I'll stick to an environment that has the most important ingredients of a pub, and put up with the smoke as it really doesn't bother me one bit, and I am not a smoker. Think I'll give Gullivers a miss though.

Fair enough, I don't post often (well, hardly ever!) on this board because I haven't been inspired too.....However, I do read it often and I'm just trying to sound off on this issue because I am passionate about it. I don't think I'm alone and I would be surprised if there aren't many nonsmokers out there who aren't as passionate as I am on this issue. It's just we've had to put up with it for so long and have had no (or little) choice other than to suffer with it.

As for Gulliver's, I used to hate it myself. When it first opened, it was kind of cool then it got kind of sordid and I lost interest. You're right about the staff though (even my GF commented about them) but there are a few decent ones. Wouldn't care to paint everyone in there as a "sexpat" though they are in attendance.....by the way, which city do you live in? This place is full of sexpats and Lolita's (one of the most notorious blow job bars in BKK is right across the street from Soi 8 Pub) so you really can't avoid the sex scene completely in BKK. I guess I was just recently impressed with Gulliver's having the "balls" to bite the bullet and enforce the law as they used to be full of smokers. I will be searching for other venues too though.

I do admit I'm being harsh but I do want the owners of these entertainment venues to know how we (nonsmoker's) feel. Again, I don't care what consenting adults do as long as it doesn't affect me (or others) negatively.

PEACE.

I really can't wait until the police start enforcing this.....of course, I'd be nervous as a bar owner that any copper might enforce it at their discretion even now.

[BangkokWildcat]

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Yes, you are extremelly passionate considering you have only posted twice in 5 years, but I think that you are being far to agressive towards the owner about this. At present, they still do not have to enforce it, so it's pretty much up to him.I can't see that he's going to lose many of the customers that he already has, becasue he hasn't danced to the tune of the anti-smoking brigade.

Gullivers, a good alternative. Don't make me laugh. A bar that is full of working girls, with no live entertainment, full of sexpats, poor service and a lousy selection of beers. I think I'll stick to an environment that has the most important ingredients of a pub, and put up with the smoke as it really doesn't bother me one bit, and I am not a smoker. Think I'll give Gullivers a miss though.

Fair enough, I don't post often (well, hardly ever!) on this board because I haven't been inspired too.....However, I do read it often and I'm just trying to sound off on this issue because I am passionate about it. I don't think I'm alone and I would be surprised if there aren't many nonsmokers out there who aren't as passionate as I am on this issue. It's just we've had to put up with it for so long and have had no (or little) choice other than to suffer with it.

As for Gulliver's, I used to hate it myself. When it first opened, it was kind of cool then it got kind of sordid and I lost interest. You're right about the staff though (even my GF commented about them) but there are a few decent ones. Wouldn't care to paint everyone in there as a "sexpat" though they are in attendance.....by the way, which city do you live in? This place is full of sexpats and Lolita's (one of the most notorious blow job bars in BKK is right across the street from Soi 8 Pub) so you really can't avoid the sex scene completely in BKK. I guess I was just recently impressed with Gulliver's having the "balls" to bite the bullet and enforce the law as they used to be full of smokers. I will be searching for other venues too though.

I do admit I'm being harsh but I do want the owners of these entertainment venues to know how we (nonsmoker's) feel. Again, I don't care what consenting adults do as long as it doesn't affect me (or others) negatively.

I really can't wait until the police start enforcing this.....of course, I'd be nervous as a bar owner that any copper might enforce it at their discretion even now. In the meanwhile, I'll vote with my feet and whatever other reasonable influence I can exert.

Edited February 27, 2008 by BangkokWildcat

[hallam]

Hallam, I won't be visiting your pub anytime soon....that's for sure! Please let me qualify my remark....First, if the CCTV does indeed show your side of the story (and I am assuming it does by your willingness to post it on YouTube) then I sympathize with you having to deal with that idiot and good riddance to that guy.

HOWEVER, I don't like / support your "phasing" in your compliance to the local anti-smoking law. Sure, you are in a difficult place due to the ridiculously lax enforcement of the law but you do show total disregard to the welfare of your non-smoking customers and employees. For all my adult life I've had to suck in secondhand smoke from mostly selfish smokers and have had to deal with the health ramifications from that. And before you say "It's your choice Mate, you don't have to frequent these establishments...blah blah blah" (sorry if I'm assuming you would say that) I discount that retort because I do like to go out and drink but I don't spit my waste onto other customers nearby. I don't fart in their faces, sneeze on their mouths, cough up their noses, shit on their heads, throw up on their clothes, etc. I do like to go out, drink, eat, and spend my money in entertainment venues and until now, almost every place had smokers.

I've had to bite my toungue, hold my breath, move my seat, and try (mostly in vain) to avoid the plumes of smoke blown my way (90% of the time smokers don't even try to blow their smoke away from nonsmokers) in a futile attempt to salvage whatever's left of my lungs. However, now it's the LAW but you as an owner show your contempt for the enforcement of the law by "phasing it in".....just curious Hallam, what do you mean by this?

Hallam, when will you enforce it? I would love to support this move by visiting your establishment and giving you my business. Now that I have a choice as some owners are actually enforcing compliance to the LAW, I will gladly go out more often and only frequent these places. However, when enforcement does come into effect I will gladly report any business that doesn't comply so at the very least the owner will have to pay some kickback to avoid being busted / fined for noncompliance. In addition I will remember those that callously refused to support the law until they absolutely had to. I will pay back those businesses by not giving them my business, badmouthing their establishments (I've lived here for over a decade and am constantly being asked for advice on where to go out for fun. I have to entertain clients, show friends around when they visit, am active on internet boards, etc.) and doing whatever I can to not support those places who have shown their contempt towards my health.

Irony is that actually I don't care what consenting adults do (ie. prostitution, drugs, alcohol, porn, etc) as long as it doesn't affect non-consenting adults. But this smoking law has finally shown me the "light". I really am not a jerk but I've had ENOUGH of smokers (or at the least smoker supporters) screwing up my lungs and overall health. Actually I rarely post and "get involved" with these types of discussions but 'Enough is enough'.

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Thanks for your comments. As a smoker myself, I do not disagree with some of your comments, however we have made a business decision to phase in non-smoking. Time will tell if that is the right decision or not and actually I would tell you that you have a choice, something we have in everything we do in life and which you point out in Paragraph 4 of your post.

Personally I do not make judgements as to peoples lifestyles or choices be it prostitution or drugs that you refer to, both of which incidently are also illegal in Thailand.

[BangkokWildcat]

Thanks for your comments. As a smoker myself, I do not disagree with some of your comments, however we have made a business decision to phase in non-smoking. Time will tell if that is the right decision or not and actually I would tell you that you have a choice, something we have in everything we do in life and which you point out in Paragraph 4 of your post.

Hallam, that was a polite answer and your civility appreciated....However, as you say (which as a bar owner I wouldn't think is a smart reply but this place is filled with unsuccessful bar owners) I do have a choice and I will do my best to make it felt.

I would recommend to all nonsmokers that your bar (Soi 8 Pub) is definitely not a place for nonsmokers to frequent. Even if / when you do actually comply with the law, I won't visit / recommend to anyone I know as I strongly disagree your "business decision" (read as "refusing to obey the law) though I realize you are not alone and some other businesses are doing the same. I guess your being a smoker probably says it all as to your opinion on the matter. I have found the vast majority of smokers to be an inconsiderate group as it relates to their habit.

Too bad as I like the area and with the whole anti-smoking law I plan on going out around there more often.

One more point that I'm curious about, what other laws does your business not obey?

Edited February 27, 2008 by BangkokWildcat

[mrtoad]

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Yes, you are extremelly passionate considering you have only posted twice in 5 years, but I think that you are being far to agressive towards the owner about this. At present, they still do not have to enforce it, so it's pretty much up to him.I can't see that he's going to lose many of the customers that he already has, becasue he hasn't danced to the tune of the anti-smoking brigade.

Gullivers, a good alternative. Don't make me laugh. A bar that is full of working girls, with no live entertainment, full of sexpats, poor service and a lousy selection of beers. I think I'll stick to an environment that has the most important ingredients of a pub, and put up with the smoke as it really doesn't bother me one bit, and I am not a smoker. Think I'll give Gullivers a miss though.

Fair enough, I don't post often (well, hardly ever!) on this board because I haven't been inspired too.....However, I do read it often and I'm just trying to sound off on this issue because I am passionate about it. I don't think I'm alone and I would be surprised if there aren't many nonsmokers out there who aren't as passionate as I am on this issue. It's just we've had to put up with it for so long and have had no (or little) choice other than to suffer with it.

As for Gulliver's, I used to hate it myself. When it first opened, it was kind of cool then it got kind of sordid and I lost interest. You're right about the staff though (even my GF commented about them) but there are a few decent ones. Wouldn't care to paint everyone in there as a "sexpat" though they are in attendance.....by the way, which city do you live in? This place is full of sexpats and Lolita's (one of the most notorious blow job bars in BKK is right across the street from Soi 8 Pub) so you really can't avoid the sex scene completely in BKK. I guess I was just recently impressed with Gulliver's having the "balls" to bite the bullet and enforce the law as they used to be full of smokers. I will be searching for other venues too though.

I do admit I'm being harsh but I do want the owners of these entertainment venues to know how we (nonsmoker's) feel. Again, I don't care what consenting adults do as long as it doesn't affect me (or others) negatively.

PEACE.

I really can't wait until the police start enforcing this.....of course, I'd be nervous as a bar owner that any copper might enforce it at their discretion even now.

No problem, we just have a different view on things.

Yes, I live in BKK, so pretty used to a few of the bars and such. I thin you misread my comment of "full of" meaning everyone, where in fact it was meant to suggest that there are plenty of them, along with Sex-tourists. As regards the sex scene in BK, I'm pretty much agreement with you, it's pretty difficult to totally avoid it, wherever you go.

As I've said, Soi 8 is a really decent bar, so don't right it off in the future, just becasue you don't like their current smoking policy, afterall you openly admitted that you wasn't to keen on Gullivers in the past. To suggest that you will openly bad mouth an establishment that you have never been in is somewhat disengenious.Anyway, from what you have said, little has changed there apart from being smoke free, and it is a place that I will continue to frequent on a very occasional basis.

[kiakaha]

Apologize for the rant but it's time for all nonsmokers to do their best to support this law and it's enforcement in the early stages as it may be our only chance. By the way, a good alternative to the Soi 8 Pub is Gulliver's on Soi 5. They are actually enforcing the law and the inside atrium (too bad for the really cool atrium they once had though) has been converted to a smoking area. You can enjoy hanging out there in a smoke-free environment.

Again, Hallam, when will you obey / comply with the law? Or do you not want my (or anyone I know or can influence) business? Sorry again to sound like a hardas# but I'm extremely passionate about this topic and have put up with sucking in other people's smoke for too long!

Yes, you are extremelly passionate considering you have only posted twice in 5 years, but I think that you are being far to agressive towards the owner about this. At present, they still do not have to enforce it, so it's pretty much up to him.I can't see that he's going to lose many of the customers that he already has, becasue he hasn't danced to the tune of the anti-smoking brigade.

Gullivers, a good alternative. Don't make me laugh. A bar that is full of working girls, with no live entertainment, full of sexpats, poor service and a lousy selection of beers. I think I'll stick to an environment that has the most important ingredients of a pub, and put up with the smoke as it really doesn't bother me one bit, and I am not a smoker. Think I'll give Gullivers a miss though.

Fair enough, I don't post often (well, hardly ever!) on this board because I haven't been inspired too.....However, I do read it often and I'm just trying to sound off on this issue because I am passionate about it. I don't think I'm alone and I would be surprised if there aren't many nonsmokers out there who aren't as passionate as I am on this issue. It's just we've had to put up with it for so long and have had no (or little) choice other than to suffer with it.

As for Gulliver's, I used to hate it myself. When it first opened, it was kind of cool then it got kind of sordid and I lost interest. You're right about the staff though (even my GF commented about them) but there are a few decent ones. Wouldn't care to paint everyone in there as a "sexpat" though they are in attendance.....by the way, which city do you live in? This place is full of sexpats and Lolita's (one of the most notorious blow job bars in BKK is right across the street from Soi 8 Pub) so you really can't avoid the sex scene completely in BKK. I guess I was just recently impressed with Gulliver's having the "balls" to bite the bullet and enforce the law as they used to be full of smokers. I will be searching for other venues too though.

I do admit I'm being harsh but I do want the owners of these entertainment venues to know how we (nonsmoker's) feel. Again, I don't care what consenting adults do as long as it doesn't affect me (or others) negatively.

PEACE.

I really can't wait until the police start enforcing this.....of course, I'd be nervous as a bar owner that any copper might enforce it at their discretion even now.

FYI, Gullivers Khao San is a smoke fest. So I guess the owners are playing good cop bad cop , no pun intended

[v8tfcorty]

Speaking to a few Pattaya bar owners over the last few days, they tell me they've been told ok to smoke in their bars for the next 6 weeks then it will be enforced. However they do not put ash trays on the tables but of you ask for one, you will be given one.

[kiakaha]

Thanks for your comments. As a smoker myself, I do not disagree with some of your comments, however we have made a business decision to phase in non-smoking. Time will tell if that is the right decision or not and actually I would tell you that you have a choice, something we have in everything we do in life and which you point out in Paragraph 4 of your post.

Hallam, that was a polite answer and your civility appreciated....However, as you say (which as a bar owner I wouldn't think is a smart reply but this place is filled with unsuccessful bar owners) I do have a choice and I will do my best to make it felt.

I would recommend to all nonsmokers that your bar (Soi 8 Pub) is definitely not a place for nonsmokers to frequent. Even if / when you do actually comply with the law, I won't visit / recommend to anyone I know as I strongly disagree your "business decision" (read as "refusing to obey the law) though I realize you are not alone and some other businesses are doing the same. I guess your being a smoker probably says it all as to your opinion on the matter. I have found the vast majority of smokers to be an inconsiderate group as it relates to their habit.

Too bad as I like the area and with the whole anti-smoking law I plan on going out around there more often.

One more point that I'm curious about, what other laws does your business not obey?

Dude, I am a non smoker too, but come on mate, just chill out.

It could be worse : http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0802...ized-earth.html

[BangkokWildcat]

As I've said, Soi 8 is a really decent bar, so don't right it off in the future, just becasue you don't like their current smoking policy, afterall you openly admitted that you wasn't to keen on Gullivers in the past. To suggest that you will openly bad mouth an establishment that you have never been in is somewhat disengenious.

Hi Mr. Toad.......What really irks me about places like Soi 8 Pub is that they are "fighting" this law by not abiding by it. I would bet money that if there is any way to bribe the police to look the other way or if the law isn't enforced, they won't abide by it. I guess my incredible excitement over this new law is getting the better of me but I have had to put up with serious amounts of secondhand smoke for far too long here in BKK. Sure, as Hallam says, it's my choice BUT is it really fair? Why can't I go out to bars / pubs without sucking in someone's waste? It's a serious argument. I'm having to breathe a foul / toxic waste product that's been sucked in someone's lungs and exhaled into my air supply. How is that different from me hacking phlegm into someone's face? Sure it's a disgusting analogy but it really sucks (or used to) to be a nonsmoker who enjoys the BKK nightlife. Making this worse has been the attitude and total lack of consideration that most smokers show. Frankly they are now reaping what they have sown for many years IMHO.

Soi 8 Pub may be a 'decent' place (and to be honest I was interested in the place when I heard about it) but it obviously is the "enemy" in this war to see if the new law will be effective or not. Having lived here for so long I'm well-aware that the crucial time in getting this law to be effective or not is already upon us. So I would advocate to all nonsmokers to boycott the Soi 8 Pub at least until they abide by the anti-smoking law and it's up to them if they choose to economically punish the owner for resisting it.

BTW, I would advocate this treatment for ALL places that refuse to honor the new law. Vote with your feet and mouth (pardon the mouth pun in relation to Lolitas ).

Last comment, if you actually knew me in person and how usually laid back and "live and let live" I truly am, you'd be surprised at my comments on the issue. I would bet that there are a lot of nonsmokers out there (probably the majority) who are as passionate as I am about this topic.

Anyways, glad you enjoy Soi 8 Pub....as for me, I will boycott / badmouth it at least until they obey the law and maybe after for their taking the decision to break this law in the first place.......sorry, but I just can't respect them for taking the "low road" on the issue.

[BangkokWildcat]

Dude, I am a non smoker too, but come on mate, just chill out.

It could be worse : http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0802...ized-earth.html

Ha ha......I only have 7.6 billion more years left???? Ok, point taken....I will Chill Dude! Enough said on the matter.

[hallam]

Thanks for your comments. As a smoker myself, I do not disagree with some of your comments, however we have made a business decision to phase in non-smoking. Time will tell if that is the right decision or not and actually I would tell you that you have a choice, something we have in everything we do in life and which you point out in Paragraph 4 of your post.

Hallam, that was a polite answer and your civility appreciated....However, as you say (which as a bar owner I wouldn't think is a smart reply but this place is filled with unsuccessful bar owners) I do have a choice and I will do my best to make it felt.

I would recommend to all nonsmokers that your bar (Soi 8 Pub) is definitely not a place for nonsmokers to frequent. Even if / when you do actually comply with the law, I won't visit / recommend to anyone I know as I strongly disagree your "business decision" (read as "refusing to obey the law) though I realize you are not alone and some other businesses are doing the same. I guess your being a smoker probably says it all as to your opinion on the matter. I have found the vast majority of smokers to be an inconsiderate group as it relates to their habit.

Too bad as I like the area and with the whole anti-smoking law I plan on going out around there more often.

One more point that I'm curious about, what other laws does your business not obey?

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Life is about choices and I respect your right to exercise yours. It is a pity you revert to comments such as "unsuccessful bar owners" and being a smoker probably says it all.

Running a successful pub such as Soi 8 is no easy business as any pub owner will tell you. I'm not aware of what line of business you are in but if you are in business on your own account, will will no doubt have to make decisions based on what you believe is in the best interests of both your business and the majority of your customers.

I assume from your posts that you have never been to Soi 8 so I guess the potential loss to the business will be zero. If there is one thing I have learnt in the pub business, try as we do, you cannot please everybody.

With respect to your query as to what other laws we break, we are a pretty law abiding pub. Open from 8.am for breakfast till 1.00am. We do stay open later on the odd occasion to cover live sports events, but being 60, I like to get home ASAP.

Best wishes.

[Ijustwannateach]

This thread is slipping off-topic. Kudos to Hallam for maintaining his sense of humour, but the topic here is NOT his pub or its overall obedience to the law. Let's get back to discussing the crackdown in general, please.

[trader1]

. So I would advocate to all nonsmokers to boycott the Soi 8 Pub at least until they abide by the anti-smoking law and it's up to them if they choose to economically punish the owner for resisting it.

Well I don't smoke and don't like bars, but I might make an exceptioon and start to frequent soi 8 based on your posts.

[kiakaha]

. So I would advocate to all nonsmokers to boycott the Soi 8 Pub at least until they abide by the anti-smoking law and it's up to them if they choose to economically punish the owner for resisting it.

Well I don't smoke and don't like bars, but I might make an exceptioon and start to frequent soi 8 based on your posts.

I recommend the lamb chops..best in Bangkok, just like Mom makes em

[Ijustwannateach]

I've tried to be gentle, but apparently that wasn't understood. So here's a public warning: no more discussion of the Soi 8 Pub on this thread [even to respond to a previous message], in which the topic is a smoking crackdown in pubs in general in Thailand.

[BangkokWildcat]

Was wondering what was happening...anyways, have deleted my post reply to Mr. Toad.

Edited February 28, 2008 by BangkokWildcat

[mrtoad]

Was wondering what was happening...anyways, have deleted my post reply to Mr. Toad.

Not to worry, we've agreed to disagree. Have a good day mate.

[BalthazarBeefheart]

I will abide by Iwannateach's directive and not mention that pub that is flouting the new smoking law.

I see the owners sycophantic clientele are not.

My only concern in this matter is for the staff of establishments that flout this law - I know the nicotine addicts will say they have the choice to leave but jobs are not easy to come by.

Maybe it is not the duty of business owners to maintain a healthy working environment in Thailand but subjecting staff to long hours of passive smoking seems scandalous to me.

I think the problem with smokers is they just don't realise how obnoxious it is for others as they can't recall what it was like before they smoked.

I think more people will give up because they will realise how pathetic they are having to keep nipping outside for a puff with their fellow lepers.

Cheers BB

[BigSnake]

The crackdown will go on for a few weeks it will die down not to worry, be kool, it's likes bad gas it will PASS.

[Sunderland]

Interesting debate with much to be said. As a non-smoker who has never been tempted to even try a ciggie, I am not in a position to fully understand the difficulties of giving up. I have spent many a night in the company of both smokers and non-smokers without much complaint and yet feel a bit pissed off when I get home and realize how bad my clothes smell and the 'gunk' that has lodged up my nose as well as probably throughout the inner parts of the body.

I don't really mind if some bars choose to defy the law as long as possible. In some ways I think it would be reasonable to have bars that allow smoking and others that ban it. I would not be the only person who would choose to take my custom to the latter given the choice.

In a nutshell, I think that customers and service staff should be given the opportunity to go out on the town and drink and eat or go about their work in a smoke free atmosphere if they choose without being forced to sit outside or inhale something they consider to be detrimental to their long term health.

Similarly, I believe that smokers should have the right to sit in a smoke filled bar with other people who enjoy that atmosphere served by staff who are prepared to work in that environment without complaint or fear of lung cancer in the future.

The bottom line is that it is hard to see this happening as many bars may well consider (with some justification) that by joining the non-smoking club they will alienate some customers in the same way that smoke filled bars are not patronized by some non-smokers.

I think I have spoken fairly and sensibly on behalf of smokers and non-smokers out there.

Please avoid the silly discussion about Bangkok's streets being more polluted than smoke filled bars. Yes, the streets are polluted ... but even if I ran a marathon around Bangkok my clothes and body wouldn't possess the foul odour that is common place after a night out in Bangkok. I don't think that you can sensibly compare the two.

[Pattaya_Fox]

One poster who has continued to discuss the Soi 8 Pub after the warnings given by a moderator not to discuss this pub has been suspended.

[mrtoad]

Interesting debate with much to be said. As a non-smoker who has never been tempted to even try a ciggie, I am not in a position to fully understand the difficulties of giving up. I have spent many a night in the company of both smokers and non-smokers without much complaint and yet feel a bit pissed off when I get home and realize how bad my clothes smell and the 'gunk' that has lodged up my nose as well as probably throughout the inner parts of the body.

I don't really mind if some bars choose to defy the law as long as possible. In some ways I think it would be reasonable to have bars that allow smoking and others that ban it. I would not be the only person who would choose to take my custom to the latter given the choice.

In a nutshell, I think that customers and service staff should be given the opportunity to go out on the town and drink and eat or go about their work in a smoke free atmosphere if they choose without being forced to sit outside or inhale something they consider to be detrimental to their long term health.

Similarly, I believe that smokers should have the right to sit in a smoke filled bar with other people who enjoy that atmosphere served by staff who are prepared to work in that environment without complaint or fear of lung cancer in the future.

The bottom line is that it is hard to see this happening as many bars may well consider (with some justification) that by joining the non-smoking club they will alienate some customers in the same way that smoke filled bars are not patronized by some non-smokers.

I think I have spoken fairly and sensibly on behalf of smokers and non-smokers out there.

Please avoid the silly discussion about Bangkok's streets being more polluted than smoke filled bars. Yes, the streets are polluted ... but even if I ran a marathon around Bangkok my clothes and body wouldn't possess the foul odour that is common place after a night out in Bangkok. I don't think that you can sensibly compare the two.

I think that is one of the more balanced view points so far on this thread, but probably one that the rabid anti-smokers will reject.

[mrbojangles]

Interesting debate with much to be said. As a non-smoker who has never been tempted to even try a ciggie, I am not in a position to fully understand the difficulties of giving up. I have spent many a night in the company of both smokers and non-smokers without much complaint and yet feel a bit pissed off when I get home and realize how bad my clothes smell and the 'gunk' that has lodged up my nose as well as probably throughout the inner parts of the body.

I don't really mind if some bars choose to defy the law as long as possible. In some ways I think it would be reasonable to have bars that allow smoking and others that ban it. I would not be the only person who would choose to take my custom to the latter given the choice.

In a nutshell, I think that customers and service staff should be given the opportunity to go out on the town and drink and eat or go about their work in a smoke free atmosphere if they choose without being forced to sit outside or inhale something they consider to be detrimental to their long term health.

Similarly, I believe that smokers should have the right to sit in a smoke filled bar with other people who enjoy that atmosphere served by staff who are prepared to work in that environment without complaint or fear of lung cancer in the future.

The bottom line is that it is hard to see this happening as many bars may well consider (with some justification) that by joining the non-smoking club they will alienate some customers in the same way that smoke filled bars are not patronized by some non-smokers.

I think I have spoken fairly and sensibly on behalf of smokers and non-smokers out there.

Please avoid the silly discussion about Bangkok's streets being more polluted than smoke filled bars. Yes, the streets are polluted ... but even if I ran a marathon around Bangkok my clothes and body wouldn't possess the foul odour that is common place after a night out in Bangkok. I don't think that you can sensibly compare the two.

I think that is one of the more balanced view points so far on this thread, but probably one that the rabid anti-smokers will reject.

I quite agree Toady. I am worried about Sunderland, he has been talking sense today, do you think he's had a bump on the head. Come back the old Sunderland

[longtom]

Interesting debate with much to be said. As a non-smoker who has never been tempted to even try a ciggie, I am not in a position to fully understand the difficulties of giving up. I have spent many a night in the company of both smokers and non-smokers without much complaint and yet feel a bit pissed off when I get home and realize how bad my clothes smell and the 'gunk' that has lodged up my nose as well as probably throughout the inner parts of the body.

I don't really mind if some bars choose to defy the law as long as possible. In some ways I think it would be reasonable to have bars that allow smoking and others that ban it. I would not be the only person who would choose to take my custom to the latter given the choice.

In a nutshell, I think that customers and service staff should be given the opportunity to go out on the town and drink and eat or go about their work in a smoke free atmosphere if they choose without being forced to sit outside or inhale something they consider to be detrimental to their long term health.

Similarly, I believe that smokers should have the right to sit in a smoke filled bar with other people who enjoy that atmosphere served by staff who are prepared to work in that environment without complaint or fear of lung cancer in the future.

The bottom line is that it is hard to see this happening as many bars may well consider (with some justification) that by joining the non-smoking club they will alienate some customers in the same way that smoke filled bars are not patronized by some non-smokers.

I think I have spoken fairly and sensibly on behalf of smokers and non-smokers out there.

Please avoid the silly discussion about Bangkok's streets being more polluted than smoke filled bars. Yes, the streets are polluted ... but even if I ran a marathon around Bangkok my clothes and body wouldn't possess the foul odour that is common place after a night out in Bangkok. I don't think that you can sensibly compare the two.

Well said and I totally agree with you, except for your last argument. Why is it so silly to compare smoking cigarettes with the extreme air pollution caused by cars, factories etc. ? Because your clothes don't stink so much??? I thought the main argument is the passive smoke causing lung diseases for non-smokers and staff of smoking venues? Could it be possible you don't want to talk about air pollution in general because it would mean everybody has to consider giving up habits like driving silly big cars etc.?

I am convinced in 20 years or so (once we seriously started studying the impact of other harmful emissions in the air) we will all lol that we were giving so much importance to stopping cigarette smoke but ignored the rest.

Remember I agree with your other arguments. And yes, this is a little off topic, so I shout up now.

[mrtoad]

[

I quite agree Toady. I am worried about Sunderland, he has been talking sense today, do you think he's had a bump on the head. Come back the old Sunderland

He's happy because Newcastle are doing so <deleted>!!

[thailien8]

As BangkokWildcat so aptly put it:

"For all my adult life I've had to suck in secondhand smoke from mostly selfish smokers and have had to deal with the health ramifications from that. And before you say "It's your choice Mate, you don't have to frequent these establishments...blah blah blah" (sorry if I'm assuming you would say that) I discount that retort because I do like to go out and drink but I don't spit my waste onto other customers nearby. I don't fart in their faces, sneeze on their mouths, cough up their noses, shit on their heads, throw up on their clothes, etc. I do like to go out, drink, eat, and spend my money in entertainment venues and until now, almost every place had smokers.

I've had to bite my tongue, hold my breath, move my seat, and try (mostly in vain) to avoid the plumes of smoke blown my way (90% of the time smokers don't even try to blow their smoke away from nonsmokers) in a futile attempt to salvage whatever's left of my lungs."

As one of the Bkk. residents who enjoys the nightlife as much as he hates cigarette smoke, I too am very happy with the new law. In a way, it's non-smokers' revenge for countless times when smokers' rights came first. I agree with Wildcat's contention that:

"Having lived here for so long I'm well-aware that the crucial time in getting this law to be effective or not is already upon us. So I would advocate to all nonsmokers to boycott (unnamed smoking venues) at least until they abide by the anti-smoking law and it's up to them if they choose to economically punish the owner(s) for resisting it.

BTW, I would advocate this treatment for ALL places that refuse to honor the new law. Vote with your feet and mouth..."

Yes, my fear is that this new law might be ignored, forgotten, or bribed away (as often happens in enforcement-challenged Thailand), and after a while the previous situation where smokers rule all nightlife venues, while non-smokers suffer in silence, will be back again. So I'm doing what I can to help the new law take hold. Basically, I've been going to as many nightlife venues as I can, and simply asking at the door whether or not smoking is allowed inside. If yes, I make it clear that is why I am not going in. If no, I make sure to go in and spend some money. I don't get emotional. I just want them to know that some customers are paying attention.

That said, I also agree with Sunderland's opinion that:

"In some ways I think it would be reasonable to have bars that allow smoking and others that ban it. I would not be the only person who would choose to take my custom to the latter given the choice.

In a nutshell, I think that customers and service staff should be given the opportunity to go out on the town and drink and eat or go about their work in a smoke free atmosphere if they choose without being forced to sit outside or inhale something they consider to be detrimental to their long term health.

Similarly, I believe that smokers should have the right to sit in a smoke filled bar with other people who enjoy that atmosphere served by staff who are prepared to work in that environment without complaint or fear of lung cancer in the future."

Why should Thai nightlife be all smoking, or all non-smoking? Smokers need to smoke to enjoy themselves, just as non-smokers need to be able to breathe freely. I hope that some kind of compromise will work itself out over this important issue.

[kiakaha]

Why is it so silly to compare smoking cigarettes with the extreme air pollution caused by cars, factories etc. ?

Another "genius" who doesn't know the properties of a well constructed analogy. Been to school have we ?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1838296

[Thanh-BKK]

Then STAY THE F*** OUT OF BARS IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKE!!!!!!

But traffic related air pollution gets into my 6th floor apartment, hits me on the way to 7-Eleven to buy food, makes it impossible for me to do a morning jog around the block and has me coughing since last year October!!

And i am a NON SMOKER!!! I don't mind smoking at all but get f***ing filters in those f***ing buses!!!

Sorry my language but these defenses of the smoker-bashing citing the "no problems with other pollution" BS goes on my nerves. How come everyone here seems to be spending 90% of their lives in bars drinking themselves under the table and thereby being so worried about the smoke they may get into their clothes or lungs.... gosh, i don't have that problem going out once or twice a month and tossing the clothes in the washing machine next morning! And yes, i drink Pepsi while in the club not only but also because i'm the one driving on the way home and i haven't caused an accident in my life.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Mighty Mouse]

But traffic related air pollution gets into my 6th floor apartment, hits me on the way to 7-Eleven to buy food, makes it impossible for me to do a morning jog around the block and has me coughing since last year October!!

If you are silly enough to put up with living in an apartment that fills up with vehicle exhaust and coughing for the last four months as a result of breathing in these fumes, then you are too silly to be criticizing those who don't want to put up with cigarette smoke in a bar.

It really is a piss poor argument to try and compare cigarette smoke in an enclosed area with vehicle exhaust out on the street. I have yet to be in a bar and have cars, trucks and buses driving through the middle of the bar adding exhaust fumes to the cigarette smoke.

The authorities continue to address pollution caused by vehicles. Leaded petrol is being phased out. Hybrid vehicles are now becoming common and pointing the way to a future with cars contributing less to air pollution.

The same authorities are now addressing second hand tobacco smoke in enclosed areas.

With consumer co-operation, many of the toxic evils that exist today will be much less of a problem tomorrow.