Crackdown On Smoking At Pubs, Enteratinment Venues

[Mighty Mouse]

Take away your personal feelings about smoking and smokers and step out of the box for a minute. The main crux of what i am saying is, what about when they start to focus on another topic. Cos it certainly doesn't end here.

For instance, over the last few years, they have already reduced the licensing hours in Thailand. Will it stop there? Or will there be more reductions? All of these Buddha days and Election days when the bars can't open. I can never remember there being so many. And will it stop there?

It seems that your main problem is that you resent certain 'controls' that the various authorities impose upon society.

You need to try and understand the reason for such laws, then you may begin to accept that certain laws or controls, are necessary for the good of the majority.

The only way you can escape being controlled in this manner is to live the life of a hermit, having no contact with other people.

Should you ever travel into the deep dark corners of the New Guinea jungles and discover a uncivilized lost tribe of cannibals, you will see that the head warrior has in place 'controls' over his tribe. They probably would have rules and procedures as to who next they will select to be eaten.

This thread will go on forever if we get into a discussion on the non-conflictual forms of dispute resolution and non-state systems of law. You would need to discuss law from a new perspective using traditional studies in legal anthropology whilst at the same time discussing the ramifications of a complex society. Thanks, but no thanks. Let's just stick to the 'no-smoking' laws.

...but if it makes you feel any happier then I will agree with you that new, and perhaps more restrictive laws, will at some time in the future be introduced as a measure of control....and every time this happens, some people will find it difficult to adjust.

(You mention "Buddha day", "election days" when the bars can't open. These restrictions are more to do with tradition rather than a 'control.' TIT.)

[Mighty Mouse]

You said nothing about children in the post I quoted. Now, are you saying that one will not be allowed to smoke in one's own car when alone or when there is a child in the car?

I didn't state 'when alone' but with a child in the car, yes, this is what is being proposed. Will it apply to a convertible vehicle with the roof down? I have no idea.

[Mighty Mouse]

People go to pubs/bars in order to DRINK, a habit that is just as dangerous as smoking. For themselves as well as for others! Drink driving is an example

The vast majority of people go to pubs/bars to socialize. The main reason being to enjoy the company of their mates. Alcoholics may go to pubs/bars for the sole purpose of consuming alcohol.

Whilst they sit there and drink, they are of no danger to others in the bar. If they then get pissed and drive themselves home, yes, then they become a danger on the road.

If they sit there and get pissed, is it their fault alone, or does the bar staff have an obligation to stop serving them?

If they remain sober, they don't pose any danger to others, nor are they a nuisance to others. Smokers, on the other hand, may be cold sober but blow their second hand smoke over others in the pub/bar. It is well documented about the dangers of inhaling second hand smoke, and it certainly is a nuisance having ones clean breathing air spoiled by the smoking habits of others.

There is a huge difference between smokers and drinkers.

You may have been puked on by a drunkard. I have had many items of my clothing (including a $300 woolen jumper) ruined by careless smokers brushing their cigarettes against me as they walk through crowded rooms.

I realize that these occurrences were accidental, and whilst I may have been annoyed at the time, I certainly didn't feel the urge to punch the smokers lights out.

[Thanh-BKK]

You don't get it (again) and it's getting boring for me here.

Yes there is a huge difference between smokers and drinkers. Smokers you can avoid by not going there. Drinkers run you over anywhere outside your living room (and even IN your living room if it's on the ground floor and they try to control an 18-wheeler - happened in Germany and not just once!)

Who can't join with "their mates" without involving bars and their athmosphere (read: smoke, alcohol) really needs to get a grip on life - i haven't been inside a bar for over 10 years and don't miss it, because WHEN i went there they were all sitting there, drinking beer, and talking about football. Kind of a "digital life" - beer and football, nothing else. But let's not discuss that. I have other and better things to do and/or discuss with mates so we need no bars.

Look over various thtreads here in the forum about various tourists having been shot or otherwise killed in LOS. One thing pretty much all of those cases have in common: At least one party involved in the killing, most times actually both, have been - no, NOT smoking, but DRUNK.

I prefer having a smoker blowing smoke in my face than a drunk doing the same with a bullet or a knife for the "real reason" of me looking at his wife or touching him while he trips over his own feet.

Someone else here mentiones as a reason to go to bars is "the girls". Yeah we all know Thailand's image in the west - the only country where something illegal (prostitution) drives the entire economy (that is not a fact, but that's the image!) so yeah, i guess that reason must go as "valid" for some. I just wonder how some others manage to marry or otherwise stay with ONE girl only? I am a homosexual but for us it's no difference - gay or straight there's bars for all of us and gays, too, go there to "enjoy the boys" if you get the drift. Still i wonder about them too - for myself i have ONE boyfriend, steady since over 7 years, and no, i didn't meet him in a bar but on the internet while i was still in my home country.

So face it, guys, all reasons for being in a bar and continue bashing smokers are INVALID and just pathetic excuses to tarnish the REAL reason - ALCOHOL.

So let's fight the war of drugs - Alcohol vs. Nicotine, let the theme be: "My drug is healthier than yours". And lets enjoy the war as long as the government doesn't announce the "Mother of all crackdowns: Alcohol to become outlawed in three months".

By the way to the one who said "well documented dangers of second-hand smoke..." yes, in a large number of studies which have wasted more money than it would take to get every farmer in Isan an S-Class, it was found that NOT A SINGLE CASE OF CANCER could be attributed to exposure to second hand smoke. NOT A SINGLE CASE. So much to that.

Best regards......

Thanh

[BangkokWildcat]

You don't get it (again) and it's getting boring for me here.

Yes there is a huge difference between smokers and drinkers. Smokers you can avoid by not going there. Drinkers run you over anywhere outside your living room (and even IN your living room if it's on the ground floor and they try to control an 18-wheeler - happened in Germany and not just once!)

Who can't join with "their mates" without involving bars and their athmosphere (read: smoke, alcohol) really needs to get a grip on life - i haven't been inside a bar for over 10 years and don't miss it, because WHEN i went there they were all sitting there, drinking beer, and talking about football. Kind of a "digital life" - beer and football, nothing else. But let's not discuss that. I have other and better things to do and/or discuss with mates so we need no bars.

Look over various thtreads here in the forum about various tourists having been shot or otherwise killed in LOS. One thing pretty much all of those cases have in common: At least one party involved in the killing, most times actually both, have been - no, NOT smoking, but DRUNK.

I prefer having a smoker blowing smoke in my face than a drunk doing the same with a bullet or a knife for the "real reason" of me looking at his wife or touching him while he trips over his own feet.

Someone else here mentiones as a reason to go to bars is "the girls". Yeah we all know Thailand's image in the west - the only country where something illegal (prostitution) drives the entire economy (that is not a fact, but that's the image!) so yeah, i guess that reason must go as "valid" for some. I just wonder how some others manage to marry or otherwise stay with ONE girl only? I am a homosexual but for us it's no difference - gay or straight there's bars for all of us and gays, too, go there to "enjoy the boys" if you get the drift. Still i wonder about them too - for myself i have ONE boyfriend, steady since over 7 years, and no, i didn't meet him in a bar but on the internet while i was still in my home country.

So face it, guys, all reasons for being in a bar and continue bashing smokers are INVALID and just pathetic excuses to tarnish the REAL reason - ALCOHOL.

So let's fight the war of drugs - Alcohol vs. Nicotine, let the theme be: "My drug is healthier than yours". And lets enjoy the war as long as the government doesn't announce the "Mother of all crackdowns: Alcohol to become outlawed in three months".

By the way to the one who said "well documented dangers of second-hand smoke..." yes, in a large number of studies which have wasted more money than it would take to get every farmer in Isan an S-Class, it was found that NOT A SINGLE CASE OF CANCER could be attributed to exposure to second hand smoke. NOT A SINGLE CASE. So much to that.

Best regards......

Thanh

Ok, please, please don't respond to this guy.......I'm biting my toungue as I type this.........

Some people kill brain cells with drinking and some do it by reading Thanh's posts on this topic .

Edited March 4, 2008 by BangkokWildcat

[mrbojangles]

I respect Buddhism and suggest you do also.

I suggest that you don't suggest, i do anything pal. Any beliefs i may or may not have, are down to my own choices and WILL NOT be enforced on me by anyone. However, where exactly did i disrespect Buddhism? You don't know me and you don't know my views on Buddhism? My wife is Buddhist, do you think i would get away with disrepecting it, even if i wanted to? Get a grip.

So I guess my question is: Are you smokers able to enter a bar, not smoke,

For chris sake. Read my earlier posts. I am currently in the UK. We have had the ban since last July. I don't mind it, it has helped me cut down. That is not my issue.

Or does the nicotine fit get in the way when you are starting to have fun? Is a cigarette more important to you than a girl?

I have fun in many, many ways. My wife really wouldn't like it if i started to have fun with the girls as well.

[Mighty Mouse]

Smokers you can avoid by not going there.

You are the one who doesn't get it. This whole thread is devoted to the new law that clearly prohibits smokers from being in certain places where many people like to socialize. Non-smokers no longer have to avoid going into premises where smoking is banned.

Drinkers run you over anywhere outside your living room (and even IN your living room if it's on the ground floor and they try to control an 18-wheeler - happened in Germany and not just once!)

You are being well and truly over dramatical. This is a ludicrous argument.

Who can't join with "their mates" without involving bars and their athmosphere (read: smoke, alcohol) really needs to get a grip on life.

We are talking Thailand here. The majority of Farangs in Thailand at any given time are tourists. The most convenient place for them to socialize is in the bars.

i haven't been inside a bar for over 10 years and don't miss it,

Just to remind you again, this thread deals with the new no-smoking law for pubs and entertainment venues. If you haven't visited such places was more than 10 years, and you don't miss it, why bother defending the smokers who do frequent such places and why bash those who enjoy a social drink at these venues?

because WHEN i went there they were all sitting there, drinking beer, and talking about football. Kind of a "digital life" - beer and football, nothing else. But let's not discuss that. I have other and better things to do and/or discuss with mates so we need no bars.

Drinking beer and discussing football is what men like to do.....particularly when the wives are discussing knitting and recipes.

Look over various thtreads here in the forum about various tourists having been shot or otherwise killed in LOS. One thing pretty much all of those cases have in common: At least one party involved in the killing, most times actually both, have been - no, NOT smoking, but DRUNK.

Drunks are easy targets for thieves. Many of the news items that you read in the Thailand newspapers involve drunks as victims of crime.

Again, this is a silly argument of yours. I could come back at you with a just as silly reply and state that drunks don't burn down buildings. Smokers who smoke in bed do.

I prefer having a smoker blowing smoke in my face than a drunk doing the same with a bullet or a knife for the "real reason" of me looking at his wife or touching him while he trips over his own feet.

More over dramatizing. You really do have a vivid imagination don't you.

Someone else here mentiones as a reason to go to bars is "the girls". Yeah we all know Thailand's image in the west - the only country where something illegal (prostitution) drives the entire economy (that is not a fact, but that's the image!) so yeah, i guess that reason must go as "valid" for some. I just wonder how some others manage to marry or otherwise stay with ONE girl only? I am a homosexual but for us it's no difference - gay or straight there's bars for all of us and gays, too, go there to "enjoy the boys" if you get the drift. Still i wonder about them too - for myself i have ONE boyfriend, steady since over 7 years, and no, i didn't meet him in a bar but on the internet while i was still in my home country.

Interesting story but way off the subject of the new non-smoking laws.

So face it, guys, all reasons for being in a bar and continue bashing smokers are INVALID and just pathetic excuses to tarnish the REAL reason - ALCOHOL.

I suppose in your mind that smokers only go to the bars to smoke and only the drinkers bash the smokers. You really need to read back through this thread and look at the number of smokers who support the no-smoking bans.

You seem to have an obsession with alcohol consumption. Why not start a separate thread on your views. This thread deals with smoking only.

So let's fight the war of drugs - Alcohol vs. Nicotine, let the theme be: "My drug is healthier than yours". And lets enjoy the war as long as the government doesn't announce the "Mother of all crackdowns: Alcohol to become outlawed in three months".

By the way to the one who said "well documented dangers of second-hand smoke..." yes, in a large number of studies which have wasted more money than it would take to get every farmer in Isan an S-Class, it was found that NOT A SINGLE CASE OF CANCER could be attributed to exposure to second hand smoke. NOT A SINGLE CASE. So much to that.

Secondhand smoke is classified as a "known human carcinogen" (cancer-causing agent) by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the US National Toxicology Program, and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), a branch of the World Health Organization.

Tobacco smoke contains over 4,000 chemical compounds. More than 60 of these are known or suspected to cause cancer.

Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

* an estimated 35,000 deaths from heart disease in non-smokers who live with smokers

* about 3,400 lung cancer deaths in non-smoking adults

* other breathing problems in non-smokers, including coughing, mucus, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function

* 150,000 to 300,000 lung infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations

* increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million children who have asthma

* more than 750,000 middle ear infections in children

Pregnant women exposed to secondhand smoke are also at increased risk of having low birth weight babies.

Source: Click here.

Best regards......

Thanh

...and best regards to you too.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Mighty Mouse

[mrtoad]

I respect Buddhism and suggest you do also.

I suggest that you don't suggest, i do anything pal. Any beliefs i may or may not have, are down to my own choices and WILL NOT be enforced on me by anyone. However, where exactly did i disrespect Buddhism? You don't know me and you don't know my views on Buddhism? My wife is Buddhist, do you think i would get away with disrepecting it, even if i wanted to? Get a grip.

So I guess my question is: Are you smokers able to enter a bar, not smoke,

For chris sake. Read my earlier posts. I am currently in the UK. We have had the ban since last July. I don't mind it, it has helped me cut down. That is not my issue.

Or does the nicotine fit get in the way when you are starting to have fun? Is a cigarette more important to you than a girl?

I have fun in many, many ways. My wife really wouldn't like it if i started to have fun with the girls as well.

MrBoj,

I think that you're reasoning is waisted on many of these people, who continue to try to hide behind other issues, as they know full well that they are against freedom of choice. I can also see that you must have been mightly pissed off regarding Thailen8's rather personal insult regarding Buddhism. This is just the sort of crap that people have had to endure in the west, when wanting to make a point abput diasgreeing with something, those people who like to impose their views then hide behind PC phrases and other "isms".

The post by Sunderland (a non smoker) a few days ago, was one of the more balanced, but even then, the usual suspects could not accept that having both smoking and non smoking environments was acceptable either.

As Mighty Mouse has said it's futile to debate(as he feels that he has won), so why not just close this thread down.

I'm off for a cold beer by the pool in a minute, just to cool down.

[mrbojangles]

MrBoj,

I think that you're reasoning is waisted on many of these people, who continue to try to hide behind other issues, as they know full well that they are against freedom of choice. I can also see that you must have been mightly pissed off regarding Thailen8's rather personal insult regarding Buddhism. This is just the sort of crap that people have had to endure in the west, when wanting to make a point abput diasgreeing with something, those people who like to impose their views then hide behind PC phrases and other "isms".

The post by Sunderland (a non smoker) a few days ago, was one of the more balanced, but even then, the usual suspects could not accept that having both smoking and non smoking environments was acceptable either.

As Mighty Mouse has said it's futile to debate(as he feels that he has won), so why not just close this thread down.

Yeah, all your points are spot on, Toady. Don't think i'll bother wasting my time in this thread again

I'm off for a cold beer by the pool in a minute, just to cool down.

Rub it in why don't you

[Thanh-BKK]

You seem to have an obsession with alcohol consumption. Why not start a separate thread on your views. This thread deals with smoking only.

Yes i do. because i lost my mother to alcohol, had my motorbike DESTROYED by a bunch of drunks, have been crashed into by a drunk and narrowly avoided fights with drunks (several). All of that in Germany.

In Thailand i have been attacked once by a drunk at night, have TWICE had my car crashed by drunks (one a truck, second a motorbike) and have been puked on by a drunk.

In the same time i've had ZERO damage done in any way, shape or form by smokers.

Now if you get your head out of that bottle you might see the unfairness that is taking place here with THAT ANTI-SMOKER-LAW which bans the smokers from bars but allows the real danger to continue.

Next please explain me how to unsubscribe from this thread so i can have peace of mind and don't need to read alcoholics defending their views any longer.

Thanh

[kuma]

it is almost unbelievable people cannot understand the simple equation you outlined.

what a joke this is. i just wish the gradual 2 month conversion period would be cut in half and they would just get on with it.

places i go still allow smoking but the amount of smoke has been reduced noticeably, showing, imo, that many smokers are just as happy to have a reason now to step back from filling the rooms with smoke.

now lets just get on with it and enforce the ban across the board.

Just in case you aren't aware, smoking is still legal, albeit not inside establishments but it is still legal. To compare smoking with drink driving, is absolutely ridiculous.

just to spell out my point for those who are struggling... drinking is legal. Driving is legal. It is illegal to do them together as they harm others. Same now with smoking in public.

And for the love of *** stop with the purile "just wait untill they ban something you enjoy"

You harm others with what you do. It has been banned, end of story.

[kuma]

fabulous, we are subjected to all this bull@#@$ from a poster without the capability to unsubscribe from the thread.

listen, who really cares about your hard luck with getting in the way of drunks your entire life, as your endless whining posts remind us of over and over. for someone who does not drink you sure do get into a lot of encounters with drinkers.

maybe once you get the cells together to learn how to unsubscribe you can then redirect them to help you learn how to recognize and avoid obviously drunk people, then perhaps stretch and see if you can learn some of the principles of defensive driving.

it sounds like it might take you 10 or so years, but hey, gives you something to do since you do not drink and are so horrified at the thought of going to smoke free bars.

good luck, and hey keep on enjoying life!

You seem to have an obsession with alcohol consumption. Why not start a separate thread on your views. This thread deals with smoking only.

Yes i do. because i lost my mother to alcohol, had my motorbike DESTROYED by a bunch of drunks, have been crashed into by a drunk and narrowly avoided fights with drunks (several). All of that in Germany.

In Thailand i have been attacked once by a drunk at night, have TWICE had my car crashed by drunks (one a truck, second a motorbike) and have been puked on by a drunk.

In the same time i've had ZERO damage done in any way, shape or form by smokers.

Now if you get your head out of that bottle you might see the unfairness that is taking place here with THAT ANTI-SMOKER-LAW which bans the smokers from bars but allows the real danger to continue.

Next please explain me how to unsubscribe from this thread so i can have peace of mind and don't need to read alcoholics defending their views any longer.

Thanh

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to step in for a topic adjustment once again. This thread is not about alcohol; it is about the newly implemented smoking ban in bars and other public areas. Thanh, feel free to go rant and rave about alcohol somewhere else where it would be topical- as a poster has suggested, you could try starting a thread somewhere.

Incidentally, Thanh, to respond to one of your on-topic comments: Yes, the restaurants are smoke-free. Did you realise that was the result of a similar ban that was implemented just 3-4 years ago? Before that, people were smoking in restaurants. Just fyi.

"S"

[tartempion]

The main reason why I don't go out drinking any more is because of the smoke in these places.

So I learned to drink at home, nice and quiet to sit on the terrace with a vodka orange in my hand

I happened to shop at Lotus, and bought a carton of Chang, but when I wanted to pay my bill I was told I should wait 15 minutes before I could take the box of Chang home . What the heck? I'm not going to drink this stuff right here, It will be way after 11am before I get home with the booze

You get the law you deserve, as you get the prime minister you deserve (That Samak, what a joke).

Oh, and the poor americans will get a replacement idiot (Obama) for that other idiot who supposedly run that country of yours

Ok, back to my vodka orange, no risk to hit a motorbike driver from my terrace.