Smoking On Aeroplanes

[cgjtt]

Well I work for a major airline (US) based out of BKK and yes people do smoke in the toilets but the smoke alarm goes off. If you try to disable the alarm it also goes off. I had one passenger who stuck his head down into the toilet and then lit up and continued to flush the whole time. The alarm did not go off the first time he apparently did it but the second time he ended up throwing out his back and could not get off the floor and we had to enter to help him up and out. He denied that he had been smoking at first but the smell and the pack of cigarettes and lighter on the floor was a give away. He was arrested upon arrival. Sure it's generally only a fine but after a long flight do you really want to be held up for several hours and then banned from flying that particular carrier again? If you are flying a Star Alliance Carrier the information will be shared and you will subsequently be banned from those carriers as well.

Now that said - Tech crew (pilots) can smoke if they wish in the cockpit and if the cockpit crew are smokers then the cabin crew can and do smoke in the front as well.

now i must get freindly with the pilots

I've worked for many airlines, and I can tell you that most if not all airlines do not allow smoking in the airplane , never mind the cockpit. This is a blatant disregard for safety and I can't see any management sanctioning this stupid act. Remember AirCanada DC-9 in Cincinnati, They had a fire in the rear lav and it took hold 23 dead.

However a fire starts the toxic fumes emanating from the combustion process will mostly take everyone out . Remember this, once the smoke is in the cabin, the only way to control it is to vent the cabin by bringing the cabin altitude up AND TO LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Can you hold you breath for 15 while the pilot ( hope he's got the ox mask on and can see something through the smoke) lands the airplane. Remember Air Canada in Cincinnati ,maybe it was a bad lav motor but a cigarette would have done the same thing.

Smoking , BAD IDEA

[Sir Burr]

In the aircraft's toilet, the sink drain is operated by a vacuum. If you depress the lever/button to drain the water and keep your cigarette very close to the plug-hole, the smoke is sucked away. Breath out the smoke very close to the plug-hole and that gets sucked away too.

The alarm doesn't go off, but, the toilet will smell of cigarette smoke.

Never done this myself............just heard about it.

Yes, you are right...but only on the new aircraft. I would not try this on most Thai Airways planes. But as you can see from my previous posting one passenger was obviously trying this and threw out his back! Don't try this on older aircraft where the toilets are not vacume pump but the old blue water system. Not only will the alarm go off but you will have blue toilet water staining your shirt and face!

I meant the wash-basin, not the actual toilet.

[dekka007]

That after airlines went non-smoking the cabin airfilters that used to be changed 3-4 times on a long haul flight were then changed only once after the smoking ban started, thereby increasing the risk of germs being circulated in the cabin.

Increase of Germs is a myth.

[SoCal]

Is it actually a crime to smoke on an airplane?

It is indeed.

Just curious, as they always say that it is a non smoking flight, then go on to say how it is illegal to tamper with a smoke detector.

I know a guy, admittedly a bit of a rube, that lit up in the general cabin not too long ago. All the airline staff did was threaten him if he didn't put it out, or lit another. By then he was almost done.

I don't imagine the penalty is much worse than smoking in any other non smoking area, as long as you don't tamper with the smoke detector or fail to comply with airline staff.

Also, who's jurisdiction do you fall under?

[SoCal]

Is it actually a crime to smoke on an airplane?

It should be a crime to smoke anywhere, in the air or on the ground.!!!!

I guess in your world everyone should be controlled. I guess its okay to control other people's lives, as long as it doesn't effect you.

In any case, I was just curious. I guess that should be a crime too.

[yorkman]

Well I work for a major airline (US) based out of BKK and yes people do smoke in the toilets but the smoke alarm goes off. ....................................

Now that said - Tech crew (pilots) can smoke if they wish in the cockpit and if the cockpit crew are smokers then the cabin crew can and do smoke in the front as well.

I've worked for many airlines, and I can tell you that most if not all airlines do not allow smoking in the airplane , never mind the cockpit. This is a blatant disregard for safety and I can't see any management sanctioning this stupid act. Remember AirCanada DC-9 in Cincinnati, They had a fire in the rear lav and it took hold 23 dead.

However a fire starts the toxic fumes emanating from the combustion process will mostly take everyone out . Remember this, once the smoke is in the cabin, the only way to control it is to vent the cabin by bringing the cabin altitude up AND TO LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. Can you hold you breath for 15 while the pilot ( hope he's got the ox mask on and can see something through the smoke) lands the airplane. Remember Air Canada in Cincinnati ,maybe it was a bad lav motor but a cigarette would have done the same thing.

Smoking , BAD IDEA

While you may have worked for many airlines, it cannot have been over too many years, It has only been in the last 15 years or so that the ban has been (almost) universal.

It had nothing at all to do with safety. It was a combination of the airlines worrying about being sued (passive smoking), legislation at first emanating in the US after pressure from groups like the ANR, and the airlines realising they would SAVE MONEY. If you are to quote an example, it might be better to quote one where a fire has resulted from smoking AND actually endangered a flight.

For avoidance of scaremongering (sorry bad term, I am sure that was not your intention, but that could be the effect) may I correct you?. The cabin is vented by bringing the cabin pressure (not altitude) up and the pax will not need to hold their breath, they would be on drop down oxygen too. One of the duties of the cabin crew is to locate and extinguish the source of the fire, and the materials used in an airline cabin are purposely highly resistant to combustion. A cigarette is very unlikely to start a major fire. They would indeed land as soon as is possible.

@SoCal... yes indeed, it is a crime to smoke on an airplane; it is in the legislation, these days, of most countries that you are flying in to. If the airline allowed it they could be subject to prosecution too. In practice, they can ban it anyway, and you can be prosecuted for failing to obey the instruction of flightcrew under international law.

[britmaveric]

Flew Olympic airlines - supposed to be non-smoking. Everyone was lighting up - bit surprised but greeks do like their tobacco.

[dekka007]

I don't imagine the penalty is much worse than smoking in any other non smoking area, as long as you don't tamper with the smoke detector or fail to comply with airline staff.

Also, who's jurisdiction do you fall under?

You will fall under the aircrafts registered country law. Therefore flying British Airways (G-etc) you will be prosecuted under british law.

If the Captain persues it and requests police on arrival the minimum u will get is a HEFTY fine and a suspended sentence. I had it once guy light up 3 times in a 1.5 hour flight. He got 3 months (not suspended) and 2000 quid fine from Manchester Magistrates, although he was also abusive to my crew which didn't help his case at all.

Edited January 17, 2008 by dekka007

[yorkman]

I don't imagine the penalty is much worse than smoking in any other non smoking area, as long as you don't tamper with the smoke detector or fail to comply with airline staff.

Also, who's jurisdiction do you fall under?

You will fall under the aircrafts registered country law. Therefore flying British Airways (G-etc) you will be prosecuted under british law.

If the Captain persues it and requests police on arrival the minimum u will get is a HEFTY fine and a suspended sentence. I had it once guy light up 3 times in a 1.5 hour flight. He got 3 months (not suspended) and 2000 quid fine from Manchester Magistrates, although he was also abusive to my crew which didn't help his case at all.

Sort of. If you were smoking on a (for example) Thai flight into LHR they would likely prosecute under british law, by international agreement, for failing to obey the lawful instruction of the the flightcrew (emanating from the Captain's authority). That is more serious.

Was that what happened to the man in Manchester?

[dekka007]

I believe technically u could be charged twice. By destination law and then on return to the aircraft registered country arrested on arrival - not sure if that has ever happened tho.

Not to mention the carrier initiating a Ban on that particular idiot traveling on the airline again.

Basically yes he was prosecuted under violation of some section of the UK ANO / Air safety regulation act, cant remember which one. but yes he failed to obey an instruction issued to him by the crew on 3 occasions on authority of the skipper.

Manchester airport police are excellent (as opposed to some other authorities I could mention) on dealing with a meet on arrival request and "Take no sh@t" from these scumbags - Cuffed and man handled off the aircraft.

Edited January 17, 2008 by dekka007

[SoCal]

Iteresting answers, especially who has jurisdiction.

Always wondered on those two things. 1) Why they don't say it is illegal to smoke, but do say it is illegal to tamper with a smoke detector? You would think they would say both. 2) When over international waters, who has jurisdiction?

Technicaly, if you lit up, wouldn't the punishment just be for smoking in a non-smoking area, if they even bothered to prosecute you, as long as you didn't disobey the staff when they asked you to extinguish it, and didn't re-light?

Like I said before, only curiousity, so don't need people preaching to me about smoking on a plane.

Just an idle mind on a plane.

[budmak]

Well i am a smoker and i dont like patches or the gum so on any long flight i take i do what i do every day to quit my habit i go to sleep cant smoke if you are in the land of nod

[yorkman]

Iteresting answers, especially who has jurisdiction.

Always wondered on those two things. 1) Why they don't say it is illegal to smoke, but do say it is illegal to tamper with a smoke detector? You would think they would say both. 2) When over international waters, who has jurisdiction?

It is illegal to tamper with a smoke detector because it is a safety device. Just like a seatbelt, fire extinguisher or lifejacket. You are endangering the aircraft, a very serious offence. It is illegal to smoke if the country where the aircraft is terminating has brought in such legislation. Many have now.

Once you have boarded the aircraft (it does not need to be over international waters) you are subject to the law in the country where the aircraft is registered, and potentially the law where the aircraft actually terminates (and in some countries departs). It is all a bit hypothetical, but you could in theory be prosecuted by both, or all 3. Unlikely......

Technicaly, if you lit up, wouldn't the punishment just be for smoking in a non-smoking area, if they even bothered to prosecute you, as long as you didn't disobey the staff when they asked you to extinguish it, and didn't re-light?

Yes, if they could be bothered and you were landing in a country where legislation has been brought in. It is really up to the crew but probably not a wise thing to test out

Like I said before, only curiousity, so don't need people preaching to me about smoking on a plane.

Just an idle mind on a plane.

[Andiamo]

That after airlines went non-smoking the cabin airfilters that used to be changed 3-4 times on a long haul flight were then changed only once after the smoking ban started, thereby increasing the risk of germs being circulated in the cabin.

Increase of Germs is a myth.

Slightly off topic so apologies in advance.

Can anybody verify how often the airfilters are changed? And if so, is there any difference between Economy and Business Class?

I had understood that when we all fly, the air we breathe is reconditioned oxygen - i.e. not pure. I have read that this may also considered a contributory factor in developing a DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).

Any input gratefully received!

[SoCal]

It is all a bit hypothetical

That's what I find so interesting.

Also, believe me, it has nothing to do with me testing things out.

[wilko]

Smoking during a flight is perfectly OK.......so long as you do it outside!

[yorkman]

Slightly off topic so apologies in advance.

Can anybody verify how often the airfilters are changed? And if so, is there any difference between Economy and Business Class?

I had understood that when we all fly, the air we breathe is reconditioned oxygen - i.e. not pure. I have read that this may also considered a contributory factor in developing a DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).

Any input gratefully received!

I don't know on the first question, input needed from an Aircraft Engineer. My best guess anyway is that it varies depending on aircraft type.

What you are breathing is airconditioned air. Not oxygen except in that air is, approximately, 20% oxygen. It is pressurised to bring the cabin apparent altitude down. If it were not, at cruising altitude you would collapse almost instantly and would be dead pretty quickly

[onzestan]

Slightly off topic so apologies in advance.

Can anybody verify how often the airfilters are changed? And if so, is there any difference between Economy and Business Class?

I had understood that when we all fly, the air we breathe is reconditioned oxygen - i.e. not pure. I have read that this may also considered a contributory factor in developing a DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).

Any input gratefully received!

I don't know on the first question, input needed from an Aircraft Engineer. My best guess anyway is that it varies depending on aircraft type.

What you are breathing is airconditioned air. Not oxygen except in that air is, approximately, 20% oxygen. It is pressurised to bring the cabin apparent altitude down. If it were not, at cruising altitude you would collapse almost instantly and would be dead pretty quickly

As far as I know the cabin pressure is held at the pressure you normally would have at an altitude of approx. 3000 metres.

I'm a heart patient and have to adjust my medication to these parameters so if I'm not correct please feel free to put things straight.

About the airfilters, when flights used to be part smoking, the aircraft had to employ 4 very expensive filters for the duration of the flights.

Now without smoking this is restricted to 1 filter only. Considerate saving for the airline and that's the main reason ALL flights are non-smoking.

cheers

onzestan

[dr_Pat_Pong]

We should not bash the poor smokers....

I am all for a place for them to smoke...

Maybe on the wing...

[kiakaha]

smoking on planes..whats next ? a topic on how to have safe bareback sex with an HIV+ Nana PLaza whore ?

[yorkman]

As far as I know the cabin pressure is held at the pressure you normally would have at an altitude of approx. 3000 metres.

I'm a heart patient and have to adjust my medication to these parameters so if I'm not correct please feel free to put things straight.

.....................

Considerate saving for the airline and that's the main reason ALL flights are non-smoking.

cheers

onzestan

Thats right onzestan, although the actual cabin pressure varies according to aircraft type and what the outflow valves are set to on that particular aircraft.

If you assume 3000m you are on the safe side.

And yes, most of the airlines were all for it, not just filters but cleaning costs etc etc

[Andiamo]

Slightly off topic so apologies in advance.

Can anybody verify how often the airfilters are changed? And if so, is there any difference between Economy and Business Class?

I had understood that when we all fly, the air we breathe is reconditioned oxygen - i.e. not pure. I have read that this may also considered a contributory factor in developing a DVT (Deep Vein Thrombosis).

Any input gratefully received!

I don't know on the first question, input needed from an Aircraft Engineer. My best guess anyway is that it varies depending on aircraft type.

What you are breathing is airconditioned air. Not oxygen except in that air is, approximately, 20% oxygen. It is pressurised to bring the cabin apparent altitude down. If it were not, at cruising altitude you would collapse almost instantly and would be dead pretty quickly

As far as I know the cabin pressure is held at the pressure you normally would have at an altitude of approx. 3000 metres.

I'm a heart patient and have to adjust my medication to these parameters so if I'm not correct please feel free to put things straight.

About the airfilters, when flights used to be part smoking, the aircraft had to employ 4 very expensive filters for the duration of the flights.

Now without smoking this is restricted to 1 filter only. Considerate saving for the airline and that's the main reason ALL flights are non-smoking.

cheers

onzestan

Thanks Yorkman and Onzestan for your input.

6/7 years ago - the very first time (and last time!!) I took a direct flight* from the UK to Bangkok, I suffered a DVT. I flew alone as I had been visiting a Thai friend here and taking advantage of the break between jobs to have a holiday.

They day before I flew back from Thailand to the UK, I went on the BUPA website and kinda guessed it was a DVT from their explanations and "Physical Stretching Tests". Although at the time, I told myself it couldn't be as I was about to start a new job in the UK, had mortgage commitments etc and decided to take the risk of flying back anyway.......

Hmmm, was not a good idea - felt like my calf was gonna explode and by then it was more than double the size of the other one! (I stood at the back for the whole 13 hours flexing my calves and exercising and thinking that was it! ).

After landing - luckily we lived in South West London at the time, I went straight to my local Doctor who sent me straight to the Hospital where they confirmed a) how stupid I had been to fly back, yes it was a DVT and c) after having an ECG, confirmed how lucky I was that the clot hadn't travelled to my heart!

Whilst I was off work and getting treatment I read lots of reserach on the net etc and I had heard that the air in the Aircraft cabin could also be a contributory factor to people getting DVTs. So that in a round about way is why I was wondering about the air!

Hope I haven't bored all you guys and gals out there!

Edit *I now only ever take non-direct flights with either Emirates or Qatar Air.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Andiamo

[seonai]

Hi Andi, Why Emerates and Quatar?

[cgjtt]

As far as I know the cabin pressure is held at the pressure you normally would have at an altitude of approx. 3000 metres.

I'm a heart patient and have to adjust my medication to these parameters so if I'm not correct please feel free to put things straight.

.....................

Considerate saving for the airline and that's the main reason ALL flights are non-smoking.

cheers

onzestan

Thats right onzestan, although the actual cabin pressure varies according to aircraft type and what the outflow valves are set to on that particular aircraft.

If you assume 3000m you are on the safe side.

And yes, most of the airlines were all for it, not just filters but cleaning costs etc etc

Cabin pressure is based on differential pressure. ie outside to inside and for most airplane its about 8.6 psi. This means that at 31000ft you would get about a cabin altitude of 4500 ft to 5000ft. if you are up at FL410 expect the cabin to be near 7000 ft, the higher you go, the cabin also goes up.. To correct Yorkman, my QRH clearly reads for smoke evacuation

Cabin altitude selector(Max 10000ft)....INCREASE

Pressurization rate selector................INCREASE

This opens up the outflow valves and thus increasing air flow throughout the airplane. If the smoke is bad enough, they will land the airplane. If you have a heart condition, most airlines can supply personal breathing oxygen that is not part of the airplane's equipment, I guess you have to make arraignments. filters, what filters ??

[Andiamo]

Hi Andi, Why Emerates and Quatar?

Hi Seonai,

Cos I have had a lot of success with these 2 being upgraded to Business Class! Ahhh how the other half lives!

Plus the quality of flights/food/inflight entertainment is fab!

Hope yr well

[Rinrada]

What a hilarious topic Did anyone ever hear Billy Connolley's sketch about toilets in planes called 'The Jobby Wheeker'. It wasn't about smoking on board it was about where does the poo go once you've done it!!! Also, in the days where the vacume thing wasn't there in the toilet... he talked of leaving the toilet in the morning on an aircraft to face a large queue and there was a poo in the loo that you couldn't get to go away. So when you came out to the queue you would say 'Honest Jimmy, it's no mine...'

Grizzly thoughts of all those smokers in the aircraft loos with their lit fags stuck up their erses ....sucking and blowing like mad trying to force the smoke down the karzie vacume wheeker...............

wot if they ferted...... ...Whooooosh...burnt 'airs everwhere and probabaly a big hole where they dissappeared through at 500 miles a hour.

At least the place would be well ventillated..... and the smells all gone......