The New Macbook Air

[stumonster]

I wondered: Why are they so dam_n ugly???

because function trumps form for those who want a machine and not a showpiece

this apple looks neat but I think it will be just one of a raft of ultra portables coming on the market.

intel is releasing its mobile chips this year with 802.16 - I will wait to look at what comes onto the market then

[canuckamuck]

I wonder how "sexy" this exact product would have been if it was released by Twinhead or Asus

Mu. It would look like the Dell M1330. It would have an ethernet port, it would be thicker, it would be plastered in colorful stickers. That's how sexy.

Looked at my friend's $3000 Sony last week, a 13.3" machine. It looks slick but it's quite thick. Then I turned it around, and the underside ws a mess of vents, doors, stickers and meaningless serial numbers, just like any other laptop. The sides are ugly as well. Turn an Apple machine around and you will see that they carefully designed the underside as well. They've been doing that forever, and it kind of illustrates a very different approach to design.

It would be awesome if some company stepped up and outdid Apple's designs. Only they don't, they haven't, and it doesn't look like they will anytime soon. I think they just don't care enough.

Sorry to spam this thread but as you might have guessed, I am rather excited about the MB Air

To some the cup is more important than the coffee. If it makes you feel good about yourself get the airbook. I'll keep the money I saved and do something useful with it.

[Daren]

Yeah, lets stick to those car analogies - what the ethernet port is missing as well????? Cool, a car without wheels AND without engine! But alas - bus and crane truck are readily available, aren't they?

So they look nice? Cool, a really expensive piece of living room decoration. Because that's all it's good for.

I fail to see the comparison between either ethernet or optical drive with the wheels and engine of a car! Central to the functioning of a car are its ability to generate power and tranfer that power to the ground. Wouldn't those be more analogous to the processing and storing of data, the true purpose of a computer?

Edited January 17, 2008 by Daren

[dekka007]

The no internal optical does not really bother me. I can put files on a 8gb or 16gb USB thumb drive until I get home and burn it if i really need to there on the external optical drive.

Just mount .iso DVD files when I want to watch a movie on the go.

OR rent it from the new Itunes movie rental for peanuts.

And to be honest its been a LONG LONG time since I have had to burn a cd / dvd. They are dying technologies already with the price dropping on SSD and external USB/SD/MS sticks. Soon they will be gone.

Streaming / SSD in another year or 2 will be standard - No more DVD-R nonsense I saw 4gb card in Hong Kong for about US$14.00 for exmple....

Edited January 17, 2008 by dekka007

[stumonster]

No optical drive is not an issue to me anymore

but certainly no iTunes for me

battery is the only technology lagging now as far as I am concerned.

not so keen on this USB bus either because of its use of processing power just to move files.

Edited January 17, 2008 by stumonster

[Meerkat]

It's got me a bit excited as well. I've been looking for something to replace my much-loved, but now ageing, Dell X1, and the ultraportables out there up till now just haven't impressed. The Air might be the ticket. The Remote DVD concept is revolutionary IMHO (until somebody else here tells me that it's been available elsewhere for years haha) and seeing that I rarely take the Dell's external drive anywhere, the lack of an internal drive is neither here nor there. I've read elsewhere that the Air can even boot from a remote drive, so even if you had to reinstall the OS for some reason, you still wouldn't need a dedicated drive!

Only downside for me would seem to be the dearth of ports. I'd have to buy the ethernet and modem adaptors. And I'll wait until the machine is launched before ordering, to see what real-life battery performance is like.

[Thanh-BKK]

Yeah, lets stick to those car analogies - what the ethernet port is missing as well????? Cool, a car without wheels AND without engine! But alas - bus and crane truck are readily available, aren't they?

So they look nice? Cool, a really expensive piece of living room decoration. Because that's all it's good for.

I fail to see the comparison between either ethernet or optical drive with the wheels and engine of a car! Central to the functioning of a car are its ability to generate power and tranfer that power to the ground. Wouldn't those be more analogous to the processing and storing of data, the true purpose of a computer?

Of course it is. But a computer as such is a dumb piece of various plastics and metals. You need to get your data IN it. And if you have to buy thumb drives or external USB drives, that's like a car sans engine for which you need to buy the engine separately. Because face it - what do you do with the computer if you have NEITHER external drives NOR an ethernet port? You'll put it on the table and look at it all day. That's all. And for that i wouldn't pay 1.700 dollars when i can get a better performing machine WITH ethernet AND DVD/R drive for less than half that price.

And someone mentioned the AirBook doesn't need the drives because everyone nowadays has a PC/Mac with wireless connection that supplies the AirBook with data.... that's what i mentioned akin to taking the bus instead of driving the engine-less car.

And if you do NOT have such PC/Mac to supply your AirBook with data, you can/HAVE TO buy thumb drives or external optical drives, you can/HAVE TO buy a wireless router if you want to use the internet etc etc. Akin to Apple selling crane trucks - the advantage of having a light and slim portable computer is gone when you have to haul all those extra devices with you. Then why not get a 3-Kilo laptop with everything built-in instead of an Apple that weighs 1.5 kilos and you need 2 kilos of extra devices? Specially when said 3-Kilo machine costs less than half what the Apple costs (and remember those extra bits you need to use it aren't free either).

But then drumming sense into Apple fanboys is like trying to explain the pope that there is no god. Their OS rocks but the hardware is SERIOUSLY overpriced - complain about M$ having a "monopoly on the OS market" all the while accepting that Apple's hardware pricing is what prevents them from gaining market share.

Best regards......

Thanh

[Meerkat]

Thanh

I think you're being a tiny bit unfair. Even if you wanted to bring the external HDD (weighs 320g) and the ethernet & modem connectors (my guess, but can't weigh too much), you're probably still only looking at under a half a kilo extra rather than the 2kg you state. And the whole point of the Remote HDD concept is that you simply don't need to bring the drive most of the time (in fact I'll not even bother to buy it if I end up getting the Air). Thumbdrive? Well I already carry one on my keyring anyway, so there's no problem there (and of course that'll hold both the Mac and PC versions of the server-side Remote HDD widget).

WiFi as well is becoming so ubiquitous anyway that the only times I hard-connect to an ethernet port are at some hotels and perhaps on-site at someone's office.

It's obviously not designed as a desktop replacement, so for the vast majority of buyers would be used in conjunction with a desktop. If somebody needed a fuller specced laptop, well then there are plenty of options on both sides of the Windows/OSX fence. But those people are simply not the target of this product. People like me, who currently use something like my Dell X1 for instance because it can play movies (ripped to the HDD because it too doesn't have a built-in optical drive), surf the net, run Office but weigh only just over 1kg are the target.

So I'll have to take an ethernet & modem adaptor with me every time I stay at a hotel. That's a handicap I think I can cope with!

I partially agree with your take that Macs are overpriced, but not to the extent that you imply. Oh, and I assure you I have no beef on either side of the Windows/OSX debate (2 Windows laptops and 1 desktop and 2 desktop Macs).

[legag]

SSSSSeeeexxxxxyyyyy Something, sometimes we don't need any curves!

[nikster]

have used it 1x last year in a Hotel that had ethernet but not WiFi

I always carry the small apple airport express for such occassions, I travel a lot and simply just plug the hotel ethernet connection into that then wireless.

I love the airport express for travelling and music wirelessly to different rooms in the apartment. Although they are not that cheap...

Awesome, I might just get one of these instead of the ethernet dongle. Wait, did I just imply I am going to buy the AirBook? I will wait for real life battery tests first... that makes or breaks the product for me. If the AirBook is short time only, no thanks

[ZZZ]

I wonder how "sexy" this exact product would have been if it was released by Twinhead or Asus

Mu. It would look like the Dell M1330. It would have an ethernet port, it would be thicker, it would be plastered in colorful stickers. That's how sexy.

Looked at my friend's $3000 Sony last week, a 13.3" machine. It looks slick but it's quite thick. Then I turned it around, and the underside ws a mess of vents, doors, stickers and meaningless serial numbers, just like any other laptop. The sides are ugly as well. Turn an Apple machine around and you will see that they carefully designed the underside as well. They've been doing that forever, and it kind of illustrates a very different approach to design.

It would be awesome if some company stepped up and outdid Apple's designs. Only they don't, they haven't, and it doesn't look like they will anytime soon. I think they just don't care enough.

Sorry to spam this thread but as you might have guessed, I am rather excited about the MB Air

I did say "exact product", but should have expected that Apple fans only see what they like to see and as long as it says Apple it's the best

[nikster]

And you can certainly keep that PORSCHE WITH A DAIHATSU-MIRA-ENGINE - i'd rather drive my two Kias with Kia engines (which is why i keep on ranting on the subject "identical specs" - why does a Apple machine with a certain CPU type HAVE TO cost as much as TWO machines with that same hardware but NOT from Apple???) Using a Toyota chassis and engine and putting a Ferrari-body on it does NOT make it "A Ferrari".

Um, OK, I will let go of the car analogies right here, this made my head spin.

Just for you, I did a quick check of the price leader Acer vs Apple MacBook with a 2GHz Core 2 Duo CPU. Acer costs 41,900 Baht excl VAT or 44,833 incl VAT. MacBook costs 45,899 Baht incl VAT. That's a difference of 1000 Baht. Need I say more? Macs and PCs cost the same, more or less, and that's the end of the story.

Links

Apple: http://www.login.co.th/cgi-bin/cs?asset=25&id=348

Acer: http://acer.co.th/ , see TravelMate 5720- 301G16Mn

Same RAM, same graphics, Same 2GHz CPU blahblahblah.

[nikster]

I wonder how "sexy" this exact product would have been if it was released by Twinhead or Asus

Mu. It would look like the Dell M1330. It would have an ethernet port, it would be thicker, it would be plastered in colorful stickers. That's how sexy.

I did say "exact product", but should have expected that Apple fans only see what they like to see and as long as it says Apple it's the best

I did answer 'Mu' but I should have expected that that may have been too subtle for you to notice. Touché!

[nikster]

To some the cup is more important than the coffee. If it makes you feel good about yourself get the airbook. I'll keep the money I saved and do something useful with it.

I have a Mac so I have more time for play and get more stuff done, simple as that, I have WinXP as well and it's fine, it works, but it makes things more difficult. For me. It wastes my time. The big shiny is just a bonus - Apple is built on a core of usability, and it was always that way.

The Airbook is interesting for me because I think I could deal with its limitations and it's the lightest, smallest portable Mac. I save 2.5 pounds of shlepping around every single day. That's a pretty big deal. It's a usability issue.

The other thing is that, yes, I do care about what I use ever day. Does everyone else just get furniture or other every day items the way they buy computers? You would

- Buy the cheapest bed possible, as long as you can sleep on it. Maybe a mattress would do - why have a bed at all? Or you buy a random bed regardless of looks - they all have the same function.

- Buy any couch. It must be cheap. Alternatively, buy a comfortable couch, even if the cheapest comfortable couch is pink with green dots. Why not, the functionality is the same? You can sit on it.

- Buy any TV, as long as the features are right. Ugly as sin? No problem - it's the functionality that counts.

I look at my computer every day, and I use it for 12 hours every day. I do care what it looks like. It's an everyday item for me.

[canuckamuck]

The Airbook is interesting for me because I think I could deal with its limitations and it's the lightest, smallest portable Mac. I save 2.5 pounds of shlepping around every single day. That's a pretty big deal. It's a usability issue. True, if your peripherals are weightless.

The other thing is that, yes, I do care about what I use ever day. Does everyone else just get furniture or other every day items the way they buy computers? You would

I consider value as an aspect of all purchases, so yes

- Buy the cheapest bed possible, as long as you can sleep on it. Maybe a mattress would do - why have a bed at all? Or you buy a random bed regardless of looks - they all have the same function.

So what would you do, by the bed with a trendy brand name?

- Buy any couch. It must be cheap. Alternatively, buy a comfortable couch, even if the cheapest comfortable couch is pink with green dots. Why not, the functionality is the same? You can sit on it.

Once again a decision that has nothing to do with value.

- Buy any TV, as long as the features are right. Ugly as sin? No problem - it's the functionality that counts.

I have never seen a TV like you describe here, would you buy a TV just because it looked cool?

I look at my computer every day, and I use it for 12 hours every day. I do care what it looks like. It's an everyday item for me.

Me too, and I have to say I am awful tired of looking at it because I have been using the same one for three and a half years. The darn thing just keeps being useful and refuses to become obsolete. Now I bought a macbook for my wife a year and a half ago to run final cut pro. and guess what, it is now under powered to run the new version of the software. basically it will work, but in essence it is already obsolete and has been for 6 months already.

Edited January 17, 2008 by canuckamuck

[Meerkat]

Thinking more about this, and specifically replacing my Dell X1, which still serves well (except that the screen is starting to bleed in places, and I'm not convinced the HDD will last much longer), is there anything else out there that really fits the job from the Wintel side of things?

The (2 year-old? Can't remember when I got it) X1 only weighs 1.1kg with the standard battery (I carry an extra one when travelling), but has:

1. 12" screen. 10" is too small, and 14" too big for me.

2. 2 USB and 1 Firewire (albeit the unpowered 4-pin one). Rarely use Firewire on the laptop, but already have to carry a USB hub when I travel.

3. In-built ethernet and modem ports. Yes, I need the ability to hard-connect, even if it only happens rarely, thus my comment in the earlier post.

4. SD and CF slots (nice to have for the cameras, but not necessary as both cameras also have USB outputs).

5. 60GB HDD

6. Did I get this across before? Only 1.1kg! The adaptor's feather-light too (compared with the adaptor for my other "desktop-replacement" laptop, which weighs almost as much as the X1 - no kidding.)

Obviously the Dell suffers from a relatively slow processor and fairly dismal battery-life, but it does do video flawlessly, which is probably its most CPU-intensive task.

So...a challenge to you all. Is there anything on the market I'm missing? I've tried to find a replacement, but nothing else seems to fit.

[Meerkat]

Now I bought a macbook for my wife a year and a half ago to run final cut pro. and guess what, it is now under powered to run the new version of the software. basically it will work, but in essence it is already obsolete and has been for 6 months already.

Well that's hardly an Apple-only problem. I could say exactly the same thing about my laptop and Vista (or a lot of other CPU-intensive pieces of software, which FC Pro obviously is). That's a problem with laptops generally; whilst a cutting-edge one could conceivably be sold as a desktop replacement, in reality only a desktop gives you the ease to upgrade component by component to keep it truly cutting edge.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello again.

So do i understand this now correctly - the AirBook has no ethernet port but there is an adaptor available that allows to connect an ethernet cable to it? Something like USB-LAN? If so, the car comes with an engine and i take that part back. Because i did not know that and thought that the only option to get internet is via wireless - something which may get more and more popular but there are STILL areas where there is NO WiFi. At my office is no WiFi whatsoever. But we got a LAN connection on every desk

Still comes without wheels, pardon, optical drive. And such device, external, costs money and weighs something. Plus such device needs a power supply too, i don't think the USB port supplies enough juice to run a DVD burner off it. Makes it TWO extra devices. While you can ALWAYS use the excuse that you don't "need" one, there will come the day that you maybe still don't need it to survive but dam_n sure wished you had it. Believe me, been there.

Pricing. I am not aware of a lowly-spec'd Mac laptop selling as low as an Acer. My colleague went last week to check out prices for Mac laptops in Siam Center and he told me the cheapest available was 59.000 Baht, and one equally spec'd to his new one (also Acer with quad-core, 4 GB etc) would cost 120.000 Baht. That Acer of his did cost 69.000. Any questions?

I myself have just for fun "built" my dream Mac (a PowerMac) on Apple's U.S. site, and came out beyond 4.000 U.S.$. Which equals roughly 132.000 Baht. Knowing the bits and pieces in the machine (CPU, RAM, drives etc) i compared that with the prices of those same parts in Panthip and found that i could build the exact same machine (sans the "Apple" sticker) for roughly 40.000 Baht using brand-name parts, not no-name China junk. QUESTIONS? 40.000 vs 132.000 speaks for itself (and AGAINST the Mac unfortunately for me).

If i needed a laptop (which i don't), i'd get indeed the cheapest one available and soup it up by myself. There's laptops available for less than 20k Baht with good specs, they come without Windows so what? Hello Ubuntu. And yes, they DO have ethernet ports AND DVD writers built-in

And for ME, a MACHINE should look like a MACHINE. Hence i ride what's called a "naked bike", and hence my PC is a simple black-silver box. Shiny white with magic illumination would fit into the kitchen but not into my room, sorry.

Please, guys, do understand that i do NOT hate Apple in any way, shape or form. I love their OS but i can't afford the machine to run it on, and if i could i wouldn't because it's a waste. Apple will have to reduce their hardware prices by 50% or make OSX available to anyone who wishes to run it (on a PC that is!) to gain considerable market share. If OSX was available for x86 (and NOT the hacked stuff!) i'd gladly pay for it, just as i paid for Windows.

Best regards....

Thanh

[Meerkat]

Hello again.

So do i understand this now correctly - the AirBook has no ethernet port but there is an adaptor available that allows to connect an ethernet cable to it? Something like USB-LAN? If so, the car comes with an engine and i take that part back. Because i did not know that and thought that the only option to get internet is via wireless - something which may get more and more popular but there are STILL areas where there is NO WiFi. At my office is no WiFi whatsoever. But we got a LAN connection on every desk

Correct. To hard-connect, you just need a USB-LAN or USB-modem cable, which both Apple and others sell.

Still comes without wheels, pardon, optical drive. And such device, external, costs money and weighs something. Plus such device needs a power supply too, i don't think the USB port supplies enough juice to run a DVD burner off it. Makes it TWO extra devices. While you can ALWAYS use the excuse that you don't "need" one, there will come the day that you maybe still don't need it to survive but dam_n sure wished you had it. Believe me, been there.

No. The DVD drive (which I kept on mistyping as an HDD drive in my earlier post) is solely powered by the USB port (as is the external drive on my 2 year-old Wintel Dell - powering a DVD drive by battery is hardly rocket-science).

Seriously, if you want to try and trash a product, that's fine. But at least please read the details of the product, rather than rubbish it when you can simply go to apple.com and check up on your facts first. All it does is to debase the rest of your (quite possibly) valid arguments, and confuse those who visit these forums for objective advice.

As far as "needing one", well yes I guess if I needed to reinstall the OS on the road and I couldn't find anybody with a wireless-equipped PC or Mac who was willing to let me borrow their DVD drive then you're quite correct. Having said that, if either of my current Windows laptops (one with a built in drive, the other without) found themselves in that situation, I'm b*ggered anyway as I'm not in the habit of taking my Windows install discs travelling with me...

Edited January 17, 2008 by Meerkat

[marcus]

I run a hotel and I have great respect for my colleagues who have a hip "health resort". They have "fasting programs" and charge their customers big money for NOT eating. A genius business concept I must admit .

I feel that Apple is doing the same. They sell trendy phones which can do everything except making a phone call (unless you hire a hacker to unlock it) and now a computer which would be completely useless for me, because I really need an ethernet connection (am I the only one who has noticed that there are still some places in Thailand where there is no Wifi ?) and I do use it to watch DVD's in hotelrooms. Also it has only one USB connection, which is really silly these days. I suppose I will have to carry a USB hub too, especially if I want to connect my external drive (keep in mind this drive will need an external power source , so don't forget your cable and heavy adapter !)

The only thing I really like about the Apple is the design. But for this money I can buy a much better computer of another decent brand.

[hughden]

If you buy an iPhone in the countries where Apple sells their phones, you don't need to get it hacked. If you choose to buy one at a hefty mark-up in a country where it is not released yet, you have to accept it needs to be hacked.

I suspect key market for the Air is in countries where wi-fi is more prevalent than it is here. Even so, I would find it easier to find a wi-fi connection when out and about in Thailand than I would a convenient ethernet port.

The drive they sell to accompany the Air does not need a separate power supply.

Indeed the Air does seem a little under-featured and over-priced; but it's a move by Apple to get into this segment of the market. The enhanced touch pad will surely find its way into other Apple laptops soon, and no doubt the Air will evolve over time; and will sell enough to at least cover development costs. Personally I admire Apple for their designs, I just wish some other company would put as much effort into design and then maybe Apple would have some serious competition and prices would come down.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hmm....

I read about a DVD drive that's powered by the USB port. Gosh i am SO backwards. I got a couple of them right here (not to mention two external hard drives at home) and each one needs it's own extra power adaptor because, you guess it, these are not compatible. The two hard drive cases (from the same manufacturer no less, one IDE/SATA the other only SATA) have the same SOCKET for the power supply (a PS/2 socket) but different wiring! Lucky i read that in the manual BEFORE i connected the adaptor from the first oen to the second one i bought a month later - i would have fried it (+12V is swapped with + 5V, now THAT makes sense....)

So let's say i get that Apple AirBook. I like the design, no question. But i DO need the drives - i too use the computer as a DVD player and a portable computer/laptop would have pretty much that same function too.

So i need the laptop and it's power supply/charger. A mouse (sorry... i love the multi touch feature VERY much but need a mouse for the simple things). The USB-LAN adaptor (small and light - no issue). A USB hub! Also small and light. The external optical drive and it's power supply - getting bigger. The external 500 GB hard disk because all my data is there, and IT's power supply. Together that weighs a lot...... more than my boyfriend's Acer with 3 USB ports, ethernet connection, telephone jack (yup got dialup modem too), VGA and printer port, TV-out, memory card reader AND dual-layer DVD burner. Oh, and that thing got WiFi and Bluetooth too....... and a built-in webcam. Did i mention it's also got a microphone jack so one can use VoIP and similar things.... i can't see such a connection on the AirBook or did i overlook it? And it did cost 35.000 Baht - A YEAR AGO.

I don't want to "trash" the AirBook, it's a good looking machine no doubt. I just want to point out that it is WAY too expensive - for the features it has it's worth 500 dollars, not 1.700. But then, to repeat myself - that holds true for ANY "Apple" product. This will be my final statement on the matter.

An unrelated question: If i have a Mac (laptop or desktop), can it access an external HDD which is formatted in NTFS? I know most Linux distros can but at least Ubuntu 6.06 and SuSe 10.0 would not be able to WRITE to such a partition/drive, just read. How's that with OSX?

To the guy with the iPhone - ever been to Europe? You'll get pretty much any phone there as a "locked" version and need to "hack/unlock" it before you can use it with SIM cards from different providers. Nothing uncommon. The iPhone, while just as overpriced for it's features, or rather lack thereof, as other Apple products, sure makes phone calls. It is when you want to use it somewhere where it is not actually (officially!) available that you need to "hack" it. As an alternative you could wait until Apple (Thailand) starts to sell it here, then you will NOT need to "hack" it. Face it - what you get in MBK are grey imports which are, strictly seen, illegal.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[photojourn]

I have to agree with Marcus (as well as a couple of others). This is really a "wow" and "gee-whiz" factor machine that will appeal to those who have too much money and no idea what to do with it. I make these comments having been a reviewer, reviews editor and editor of several Macintosh publications.

With a maximum 1.8 GHz processor and 64 Gbyte solid state drive there isn't a lot of processing power or storage capacity. Also the teeny 13.3-inch screen doesn't provide a lot of desktop real estate either. The lack of an audio-in port and a cam also limits the appeal of the new machine.

The single USB port will also become frustrating to many users. The power supplied from one port on many MacBook Pro's and the older PowerBooks is insufficient to run many 5-volt external USB hard drives let alone a number of devices connected through a non-powered USB hub.

It's too expensive for students, and with Ethernet only supplied via a USB port connection it won't suit a lot of business users.

More importantly, the already high purchase price is increased with accessories most people will need, ie, a USB Superdrive, Ethernet adapter (to get around painfully slow, insecure, expensive and unreliable WiFi), and an external USB drive, at the very least for backing up data.

Without these accessories, particularly a Superdrive, how are you going to install new software? You'll soon wear your welcome out with colleagues.

Someone earlier in this thread forecast the demise of CDs and DVDs in the imminent future and even critised the DVD-R standard. DVDs and CDs will be around for many years to come in my opinion bacause they are used in too many areas.

What this machine does though is give an insight into Apple's future marketing and growth strategies that are heavily focussed on generating a strong revenue stream from music and movie rentals (currently discussing renting adult movies).

In most countries WiFi connections are expensive, provide limited download capacity and are slow.

The MacBook Air is no replacement or upgrade for the MacBook Pro range. What it is is a machine doesn't to capture media attention and appeal to only a small number of users who will quickly become frustrated with its limited functionality. For $US 3,000 APple could have done a lot better than an envelope stuffer.

Edited January 17, 2008 by photojourn

[dekka007]

Also the teeny 13.3-inch screen doesn't provide a lot of desktop real estate either.

Its a ultra portable for those that want a ultra portable if i wanted screen real estate I would buy a 17" Macbook pro

The MacBook Air is no replacement or upgrade for the MacBook Pro range.

Nobody said it was its for a different consumer who values lightweight over power....

DVDs and CDs will be around for many years to come in my opinion bacause they are used in too many areas.

Both my Playstation 3 and DVD player have USB ports that allow playback direct from the stick...of course they will be around for awhile longer. but they will die within 2-3 years sure possibly replaced in the short term by blu-ray but 3rd year SSD - come back to the thread then and tell me I was way out with my predictions.

to get around painfully slow, insecure, expensive and unreliable WiFi

Exactly how is 802n slow and WPA not secure and expensive.......?

The power supplied from one port on many MacBook Pro's and the older PowerBooks is insufficient to run many 5-volt external USB hard drives let alone a number of devices connected through a non-powered USB hub.

Running 1 x 160gb 2.5" HD powered from left hand side USB2 port on my 15.4" macbook pro. 1 x 250gb 7200rpm from the right one and a 250gb Lacie Firewire drive on the fireware port.....I dont have power issues please expand on your comment. (Running all the above at the same time!)

1.8 GHz processor

99.9% of laptops users would note notice the difference between a 1.8ghz dual core processor and the 2.6ghz processor. The processing power is more than sufficient for laptop use! Secondly the performance of the SSD is staggering compared to a standard 7200rpm drive. Granted u aint gonna be using it as media centre with only 64gb but who cares I can always add a 1TB external should i wish

Edited January 17, 2008 by dekka007

[Meerkat]

Blimey O'Reilly it's got daft that I'm having to defend a product I don't even know if I want yet!

Some here seem to think that a laptop is a laptop is a laptop. That is simply not true, and the industry recognizes as such. This is why we have terms like "ultraportable" and "desktop replacement". I've got one of each, and they are as different as chalk and cheese. One is designed to spend 90% of the time at home and 10% on the road, and the other...well you get my drift. The design parameters are very different, and there are models which fall along the gradient between these extremes.

The Air actually is not that different from many Wintel ultraportables that have been around for a while - ie paring back performance to make them easier to carry. There have been dozens of laptops on the market without an internal optical drive, and whilst for some that's a problem, for others it's not (and indeed the weight saved can turn it to an advantage). Simply different products for different markets. Apple, with the new DVD remote feature has found an attractive middle-ground, but still sells an external drive were it that important to you - one that weighs less than a pound and needs no separate power source. This new solution, as far as I'm aware, is the most flexible one I think any manufacturer has yet come up with; indeed it's so exquisite I'm sure it'll be copied by others.

The lack of ports certainly is an issue, but USB-LAN and USB-modem adapters have been around for ages, and you can even pay up for a nice shiny Apple model.

I don't like the idea of a sealed battery as I like to carry a back-up (even though I'm usually plugged into an airline/car/mains adapter). That's why I'll wait to see what the real-world battery performance is like (Apple claims 5 hours with WiFi on, but that's probably with the SSD rather than the HDD, and the extra $1000 is too much for me to choose the former over the latter).

For the record, to correct yet more disinformation (or simply a lack of information that is easily gleaned from Apple's website), the Air does have a built-in camera and does have a built-in microphone so you can VOIP (although if you want to use your own microphone it'll have to be a Bluetooth one as there is no mic input socket). Oh, and yes it comes with another adapter to connect it to either a VGA or DVI external monitor.

Sigh...still wish somebody would come out with an updated X1 though...

[nikster]

Pricing. I am not aware of a lowly-spec'd Mac laptop selling as low as an Acer. My colleague went last week to check out prices for Mac laptops in Siam Center and he told me the cheapest available was 59.000 Baht, and one equally spec'd to his new one (also Acer with quad-core, 4 GB etc) would cost 120.000 Baht. That Acer of his did cost 69.000. Any questions?

I posted two links with official prices above, and with the same CPU the Mac laptop costs the same as the Acer.

I didn't think there was any room for misunderstanding in there. Same thing. Same cost.

Q.E.D.

As for that Acer - did you know there's a huge difference between Xeons and Core 2 Quad? As in, Xeons cost pretty much 3 times as much. If you are clueless as to what the Mac Pro and other Xeon machines are for you shouldn't make comparisons. All the Acers are using Core 2 Quads. Mac Pro uses Xeons. You have a tinsy weensy point in that RAM from Apple is unbelievably overpriced, so instead of getting extra RAM from Apple you buy 3rd party RAM at normal prices and save lots of $$$. I don't know why they do that, but Dell does the same thing?!

I myself have just for fun "built" my dream Mac (a PowerMac) on Apple's U.S. site, and came out beyond 4.000 U.S.$. Which equals roughly 132.000 Baht. Knowing the bits and pieces in the machine (CPU, RAM, drives etc) i compared that with the prices of those same parts in Panthip and found that i could build the exact same machine (sans the "Apple" sticker) for roughly 40.000 Baht using brand-name parts, not no-name China junk. QUESTIONS? 40.000 vs 132.000 speaks for itself (and AGAINST the Mac unfortunately for me).

That's funny because I don't believe it for a second. When the Apple quad came out, numerous websites went through the trouble to spec out Dells with the same parts, and the Mac came out cheaper. 40,000? Yeah, right. Show me proof, spec one on the Dell website, or any other website where I can verify the price. Back up your claims. Hearsay doesn't count.

"40,000 Baht" is bordering on the ridiculous though - the Intel 2.8GHz Harpertown Xeon CPU in the lowest config Mac Pro costs $800 - you have to take 1000 to get that price though. And that's just the processor alone, for the single-quad configuration.

[nikster]

With a maximum 1.8 GHz processor and 64 Gbyte solid state drive there isn't a lot of processing power or storage capacity. Also the teeny 13.3-inch screen doesn't provide a lot of desktop real estate either. The lack of an audio-in port and a cam also limits the appeal of the new machine.

Correction: A camera is built in.

From the tech specs page on Apple.com: "... Built-in iSight camera...". I don't know who uses an audio in port? Sound engineers? I have never used it. A Mic is built-in of course.

[marcus]

To the guy with the iPhone - ever been to Europe? You'll get pretty much any phone there as a "locked" version and need to "hack/unlock" it before you can use it with SIM cards from different providers. Nothing uncommon. The iPhone, while just as overpriced for it's features, or rather lack thereof, as other Apple products, sure makes phone calls. It is when you want to use it somewhere where it is not actually (officially!) available that you need to "hack" it.

Well, I used to live most of my life in Europe and I never had a locked mobile. In fact, in my home country it is illegal to force a consumer of product A (iphone) also to buy product B (a subscription with a mobile operator) That's why the iphone is not for sale over there and will probably not become for sale in the near future, unless Steve changes his mind.

As an alternative you could wait until Apple (Thailand) starts to sell it here, then you will NOT need to "hack" it. Face it - what you get in MBK are grey imports which are, strictly seen, illegal.

Very unlikely I will ever buy one, unless it comes unlocked and at a reasonable price level. My God, I just need a simple device which can make a phone call ! If I want to take a picture I use my camera, and to go online, I use my pc

[Thanh-BKK]

@nikster:

Please point me to WHERE in my post i compared the Apple with a DELL. In fact i wouldn't touch a Dell with a barge pole - i have fixed too many of those to know never to buy one.

If i get a new machine i BUILD one myself. Which is how i get to 40.000 Baht. Sure if the machine i build for 40.000 Baht would have a "Dell" sticker on it it would probably cost as much as the Mac - that's a high price for a sticker with a name on it.

And i am informed on the difference between Xeons and Core2Quads, thank you very much. I've been building computers for a while.

Show you proof? Ask my boss. His 100.000 Baht computer ("Dell" or "HP") did actually cost little below 30.000 "made by Thanh". Oh and neither Dell nor HP would have a DVD drive and a separate DVD burner for "copying on the fly", so mine is actually higher spec'd. And my little own machine, cost around 15.000 Baht, would be roughly 50.000 if there was a brand sticker on it, and then it wouldn't have 500+120 GB HDD's and again DVD drive and separate DVD burner.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[nikster]

@nikster:

Please point me to WHERE in my post i compared the Apple with a DELL. In fact i wouldn't touch a Dell with a barge pole - i have fixed too many of those to know never to buy one.

If i get a new machine i BUILD one myself. Which is how i get to 40.000 Baht. Sure if the machine i build for 40.000 Baht would have a "Dell" sticker on it it would probably cost as much as the Mac - that's a high price for a sticker with a name on it.

And i am informed on the difference between Xeons and Core2Quads, thank you very much. I've been building computers for a while.

Show you proof? Ask my boss. His 100.000 Baht computer ("Dell" or "HP") did actually cost little below 30.000 "made by Thanh". Oh and neither Dell nor HP would have a DVD drive and a separate DVD burner for "copying on the fly", so mine is actually higher spec'd. And my little own machine, cost around 15.000 Baht, would be roughly 50.000 if there was a brand sticker on it, and then it wouldn't have 500+120 GB HDD's and again DVD drive and separate DVD burner.

Best regards.....

Thanh

I don't know what planet you are living on Thanh, but the debate ends here. Please don't respond unless you can actually produce a price from a website or at least a price list of your parts. Otherwise it's just a lot of hot air that's not worth reading.

I have debunked your - somewhat outrageous - claim that Mac systems cost 2x as much as others already. I have showed you 1:1 price parity with Acer, with links for all to see.

You thinking that the Mac Pro in particular is 2x overpriced must be based on a grave misunderstanding of the parts involved. Maybe you can sell your boss on that you built him an equivalent computer for 1/3rd the price compared with Dell but not anyone following computer and parts prices.

Tell me you saved BHT 2000 - I'll believe it. Tell me you built a system that's just as adequate for your boss' purposes as that fancy 100,000 BHT machine and cost 1/3rd - I'll believe it. But don't tell me you built a system with equivalent parts for 1/3rd - that's a joke, and you know it.