How Dodgy Is My Candidate?

[craftwork]

but I'd still like to hear the story of the screaming match!

See the latest post under ''gay man in Bangkok'' thread.

[Ice Treasure]

MR welcome back..

[DJ Pat]

I've known kept guys who would deliberately walk slightly *behind* their current partners so that if any longterm partners saw them they wouldn't be obviously "with" the other farang!

How do they keep that up?

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, it obviously doesn't work all that well, and not at all if they're sitting at a restaurant- but with lots of money in the balance every little bit is worth taking care over! I'm just saying that they DO know and care how to cover their a$$es as well as they can!

[ChrisP]

While IJWT is mentioning all the clever "ruses"... Here's a good one...

A Thai ex of mine (I'm in California) was also keeping a farang in Germany and one in Holland on the string... I found out, but didn't let on.

Yes, there were the usual "I lent my cellphone to my best friend for a week...", and "had to go to BuriRam and no cell-phone reception..." stories that I saw through...

But the best one was when his German farang got him a visa to go there for 3 months... He told me he was going with his sister... and he told the Holland one that he could not contact him "because he was doing 3 months study in a Monastery!".. LOL

ChrisP

PS.. Oh, and he BELIEVED it...!

Edited September 19, 2004 by ChrisP

[Ice Treasure]

Firstly, my apologies.

IJWT your candidate is reflective of where you "met" "him". Is "he" even a "he" or is "he" a Patpong Cowboy? You won't ever know because as an older farang you won"t trust "him" enough to find out.

Why don't you go for the "second string" candidate you tired old queen, and let the "object of your desire" have a life.

Lost cause.

[Ijustwannateach]

Ummm, sorry, I'm not sure how to respond because I'm not even sure I understand? I'm a little lost in your pronouns.

I met my 'ex' through very reliable friends of mine, including a Thai-Chinese businessman. I met my new candidate through the internet. What's all this Patpong thingummy?? Which one is the second string and which one the object of my desire? I'm lost.

"Steven"

Incidentally, I'm only about 10 years + or - older than these "candidates!"

[Ijustwannateach]

Ok, yesterday (after a period of a couple of weeks when my candidate was "too busy" to meet me) I confronted Mr. Artyboy on the phone and told him I wasn't buying it. Unlike the hardened liars, he broke down almost immediately and admitted there were some fishy things he hadn't told me- and we're having coffee a little bit later to discuss them. Stay tuned!

"Steven"

[slapdashkitty]

Oh no the one thread where I saw a glimmer of hope...please keep us informed. I am sure I speak for your throngs of adoring fans who log on each week for the story of Artyboy!

[ChrisP]

He broke down and confessed...?? Wow. I've never heard of a Thai boy doing that.. my Thai ex would brazen his way through ANYTHING.!! Even if it clearly made no sense and he was caught... the fault was NEVER his.

ChrisP

[Skipton]

Yes that is unusual. I hope the result of the meeting is to your satisfaction IJWT I,ve had a few minor heart to hearts recently all worked out very well as I,m of the school of thought that its good to stamp your feet and state your case, but I am now under the impression that I am being auditioned! I woudnt mind so much but I,m younger and yet sometimes I still feel that I am being critiqued for earning potential. sigh oh Bangkok Life...still worth it.

[Ijustwannateach]

Oh no the one thread where I saw a glimmer of hope...please keep us informed. I am sure I speak for your throngs of adoring fans who log on each week for the story of Artyboy!

heh heh heh- well, we met for coffee but either there was some BIG miscommunication or he chickened out (either is equally likely)! No dodginess admitted to and he didn't seem to understand what I thought he had said on the phone before [though his English is excellent most of the time]. Ah, well, all becomes clear in time. He *did* get some money for his art from a company, though, and he was happy about that.

I haven't seen him much recently and his claims this is entirely due to end-of-term business (know what that's like myself! ). Had an overall positive feeling at the end of it. Of COURSE I'm sure that this meeting didn't have anything to do with it being the end of the month and rents coming due and so forth (since he's staying with the "other" guy and has money from that company, right?) even though 2 other former dates have come forward in the last couple of days showing a suspiciously timely interest in meeting me this week.

Never a dull moment!

[Ijustwannateach]

He broke down and confessed...?? Wow. I've never heard of a Thai boy doing that.. my Thai ex would brazen his way through ANYTHING.!! Even if it clearly made no sense and he was caught... the fault was NEVER his.

ChrisP

There ARE a lot of guys like this... but don't worry. They always eventually forgive you for all the bad things they've done to you.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yes that is unusual. I hope the result of the meeting is to your satisfaction IJWT I,ve had a few minor heart to hearts recently all worked out very well as I,m of the school of thought that its good to stamp your feet and state your case, but I am now under the impression that I am being auditioned! I woudnt mind so much but I,m younger and yet sometimes I still feel that I am being critiqued for earning potential. sigh oh Bangkok Life...still worth it.

There's almost always a financial evaluation by a Thai partner, though the smarter/nicer ones will do it in a very subtle, indirect manner. Love matters, but money matters, too. Then again, we do the same, don't we?

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

So, IJWT, he didn't exactly tell you why he hadn't been around for 2 weeks... ??

There ARE a lot of guys like this... but don't worry. They always eventually forgive you for all the bad things they've done to you.

They DO, don't they. My Thai ex - the one with the anger issues - eventually e-mailed me to tell me he was sorry "...for what happen between us"....

That's deliciously vague as to whose fault it was.

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

Nope, he didn't discuss details, except for being busy. And he was not really terribly affectionate either. I think the balance has tipped in favor of Mr. Spanish, whoever he is. Ah, well- at least he bought me dinner! So many guys, so little time- and the game IS worth the candle!

"Steven"

[alanw]

I've tried to read and understand all the posts on this thread.

One point seems to be missing - the farang who have given either young Thai men, or young Ladies, a whole lot of bullshit, trauma, and blatant lies.

I've known the publisher of a Thai Gay magazine for many years, he speaks excellent English and was educated in US and Australia, paid for by his wealthy, very sincere, and very hard woring parents., therfofre quite worldly.

This guy regularly interviews mainstream local Thai gay men and young men working in the commercial sex industry. He can tell you countless stories about Thai guys who have been lied to / cheated etc., by farang.

Several quick examples:

1. Farang takes commercial boy to short time hotel, they have 'fun', farang tells 'companion' to 'shower first', young man goes into bathroom and locks the door (normal behavior), farang empties boys wallet, takes cell phone, watch etc, and flees as fast as possible.

2. Farang takes boy to his hotel (maybe commercial, maybe young man he met at DJ. Freeman, Babylon, etc.,) knowing full well that the companion is wanting a tip. Next morning farang reveals that he has 'run out' of Thai curency, but 'never mind', I'll go tho the bank and change a travellers cheque / go to the ATM, and meet you later - the farang never reappears!

3. Farang 'falls in love' with young Thai man during 5 day holoiday. Tells the young man 'I will love you and I will take care of you forever". Young Thai man is quickly moved into very expensive apartment, believing that he will receive monthly allowance, rent money, support for studies etc. Farang pays all of this for first month. Second month farang starts to see some realities of life - credit card bills (for expenditure during holiday) suddenly mount. Farang now having doubts whether he really wants to pay all of this monthly 'support'. He stops paying. Young man suddenly wonders 'is my allowance just late, or is there a big problem'. Young man now quickly faced with 'pay rent today or move out tomorrow, and leave everything in the room to 'pay' the overdue rent bill'. No further comment needed.

Hope this adds to some balance.

[ChrisP]

Dear Alanw

Many thanks for the post...

I agree that it's certainly a 2-way street... and not all western-guys are honest and above reproach either...

However, in this thread many of the posts are about relationships/meetings outside of the commercial sex industry... where - you would hope - there is a little more "emotional honesty" invested - on both sides.

ChrisP

Edited October 1, 2004 by ChrisP

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, ChrisP, we would hope there's more honesty on both sides, both emotional and financial honesty. But twice in the last year, farang gay friends of mine have been introduced to my boyfriend's best friends. Then the Thai boys are told after a day or week or month that the farang changed his mind. And my boyfriend and I lose face, while the Thai boy loses even more.

We - not only they - can be fickle. Farang have a nasty habit of leaving the country. I think the examples of the farang robbing the barboy, or refusing to pay for services rendered, are rare examples. I suspect there are far more examples of the farang disappearing after his non-commercial boyfriend changed his lifestyle.

[Ijustwannateach]

Yup- we did get a bit off-topic up there- the topic here is not "how dodgy are all Thai boys" but "how dodgy is this particular candidate of mine." Now, I admit I'm prejudiced on the matter, but I think I'm fairly low on the dodginess scale and a good bargain on that line. Naturally, nothing they do to us justifies anything bad that farang do to Thai guys- but I'd be willing to bet on the basis of farang that I *KNOW* have been exploited versus Thais that I know who have been exploited (yes, I've met a few) that a lot more farang men are on the receiving end of lies, abuse, and exploitation from Thai guys than the reverse. Anyway, that's a topic for another thread if anyone wants to start it.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Getting back to the topic momentarily, before a hiatus the reason for which will become apparent, I had a nice evening recently with the candidate of this thread- went out to see a movie with one of his fellow students, and had a great dinner afterwards in which we discussed contemporary Thai society and art. Good stuff. I thought things were going fairly well, and was even possibly going on a beach trip with the guy next week.

However, three days ago I suddenly received an SMS from him in the afternoon:

"Sorry I have to see my family I wanted to go on beach trip but I can't see you when I get back."

All calls to his number have resulted in the answering service since.

Now, I know perfectly well that his phone service is active in Isaan (his home town). Why would he become incommunicado for a few weeks during his school holiday, and announce it to me in this peculiar and sudden fashion? Furthermore, he knows how to use a payphone- he could certainly call me if he wanted to (and reveal his location, incidentally).

Best guess, reading between the wide-spaced lines, is that he's out of the country- probably in Korea (where he had/has a date/sugardaddy before/now) or in Spain (where his "bad boyfriend" is from), but conceivably anywhere.

Never a dull moment!

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

Be interesting to see if "the family visit" holds water when he gets back.

It's not a very creative excuse... The "I had to join a monastery for 3 months..." is still tops on my list!

ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

Yep, he's back. Claimed his phone went out at the last moment as he was "rushing" to Isaan and that he hadn't brought the charger with him. Right.

Anyway, met him for a few days this weekend, but he was grouchy and not affectionate at all. We also had a discussion about how things had changed since we met (he was much more lovey before). He said it was my fault because I had told him I was dating around- but it didn't seem to strike him as important that this was after he had told me he was moving in with his Spanish boyfriend!!!

Ah, Thais, Thais, Thais.... I think I may take a break from this one on MY initiative for awhile....

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

He said it was my fault because I had told him I was dating around- but it didn't seem to strike him as important that this was after he had told me he was moving in with his Spanish boyfriend!!!

Of COURSE it's your fault. I've not met a Thai boy YET who accepts responsibility for anything... let alone emotional things.. and the consequences thereof.

They have an amazing ability to "compartmentalize" stuff...

My previous Thai bf blamed me for "looking" too much at other boys when we were out... and ignored the fact that he was actually seeing 2 other Farang besides me... when I wasn't there.

I swear.... sigh.

Thai boys and their culture...

Gottta love 'em.!

ChrisP

[qwertyuiop]

I've not met a Thai boy YET who accepts responsibility for anything... let alone emotional things.. and the consequences thereof.

They have an amazing ability to "compartmentalize" stuff...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You really think that this is unique to Thai boys? The fairer sex are same same

[Ijustwannateach]

Of course!

Although, I'd say us gays, being guys, are more promiscuous and flighty- I know that the girls will string a few guys along, but I would guess the gay guys have even more fish on the line? Any other opinions on that?

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, my "candidate" has done well for himself. Just took off on scholarship for a 3 week student exchange program in Vietnam. He didn't seem particularly happy about it, though- I would've been super excited if something like this happened when I was a student- although maybe him being from Isaan, it's more like someone from Georgia taking an exchange trip to Alabama.....

After our last meeting it looks more and more like we're becoming good friends rather than having anywhere to go in a relationship. This thing with him and the Spanish guy seems to keep dragging on forever even though he supposedly wants to leave him... maybe it's chicken and egg and he's waiting for me to "commit" before he would leave the Spanish guy [he's hinted at this- possibly for financial reasons?] but I have enough self-esteem to want him to be free before I do any committing- so I imagine the status quo will continue. Plus, things are getting better with my ex- maybe...

Well, at least the dating part ends with us being friends!

"Steven"

[WilliamIV]

Ah, well- at least he bought me dinner!  So many guys, so little time- and the game IS worth the candle!  

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Steven,

I am amazed that a Student should buy YOU Dinner !!!

Was this at your suggestion / request?

Can you remember how much he spent?

Bill

Edited December 30, 2004 by WilliamIV

[Ijustwannateach]

No, *he* volunteered! Don't worry, though, it was only a 100B outdoor Isaan restaurant market meal, not some 5000B French dinner at a hotel! But relative to his income, it was just about as nice. I would usually spend 4-500B on meals for the two of us, so relatively speaking it was a very nice gesture of his, and one which I think reinforces our being friends- both taking responsibility, and all that.

"Steven"

[WilliamIV]

No, *he* volunteered!    Don't worry, though, it was only a 100B outdoor Isaan restaurant market meal, not some 5000B French dinner at a hotel!  But relative to his income, it was just about as nice.  I would usually spend 4-500B on meals for the two of us, so relatively speaking it was a very nice gesture of his, and one which I think reinforces our being friends- both taking responsibility, and all that.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Steven,

Please allow me to comment that you seem to have taught

Your Candidate western ways without you having learned Thai

Social mores.

I can appreciate your wanting a Thai potential B/F to be an equal Partner – by paying his share sometimes.

But that is just not the way things work in Thailand.

So I am thinking you may have “lost” your Candidate for lack of understanding on your part. He has obviously learnt more about your western ways than you have about his – otherwise you will never allow him to buy you Dinner.

I suggest you read “Status & Obligation” in the Lonely Planet guide book in the Chapter “Facts about Thailand” (Page 57 in my edition).

You need to appreciate the “phuu yai / phuu nawy” relationships.

In Thai Society you have an obligation to sponsor your candidate which according to what you wrote – you have failed to do.

It would also seem that your candidate has subsequently failed in his side of the “bargain” in showing “kreng jai” towards you - I would suggest because of your imposing your western criteria for the relationship …

Your Handle “Ijustwannateach” (notlearn?) seems to sum it all !!

I would be very interested in your (and others) reactions to this concept.

Bill