Chiang Mai Province Bans Burning Of Waste

[mobs00]

So I have heard there is now a government order prohibiting the burning of anything, be it rubbish, yard waste, crops. There are now hefty fines in place and the government is taking this seriously. "Any breaches of the new public order will be severely dealt with under the law."

Around 7pm tonight I was driving by the Chang Puak bus station and right across from it they have one of those manned police boxes. It is used quite frequently to stop passers by to check for proper licences, insurance and so on. Well tonight I guess they were cold or bored or both because they decided to burn all the rubbish and leaves around the station.

I was just wondering if the ban only affects the rural poor or are some people just exempt? What kind of example are the authorities setting when they disregard a notice from the governor? Why would anyone else stop burning their refuse when the police are still doing it themselves? We all suffer as a result of the poor air quality and if the authorities want to take this matter seriously, maybe they should start looking at the top and work their way down from there....

[ronw]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

[cmsally]

Maybe just pull over and remind them

In our local area we have all teamed together and agreed no burning.

One or two don't seem to get the message, first one got a couple of buckets of water lobbed over the fence to extinguish, second one last night I went after.

Non burners are the majority and those who don't get the message will be asked to stop by somebody and if they still don't get the message we'll get someone from the Tesabahn after them. Next door neighbour is retired teacher and her ex pupils make up most of local govt.

[Briggsy]

There is a long-standing tradition of burning anything flammable here. The locals enjoy burning things and derive great pleasure from it. The practice is so entrenched it cannot be stopped.

[anonymouse]

There is a long-standing tradition of burning anything flammable here. The locals enjoy burning things and derive great pleasure from it. The practice is so entrenched it cannot be stopped.

Got to agree with Briggsy on this on. The Thai's love a good fire.

I also can't see this working, unless they give the police some sort of financial incentive to enforce this law.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe Thaksin could come back and head the campaign to stop this tradition in the same way he stopped drug trafficing in Thailand. The police could use some target practice!

[JuniorExPat]

There is a long-standing tradition of burning anything flammable here. The locals enjoy burning things and derive great pleasure from it. The practice is so entrenched it cannot be stopped.

It seems that cmsally has proved that it CAN be stopped. It's all about education and mindset - these things take time, effort and a little bit of positive attitude.

JxP

[JuniorExPat]

Maybe just pull over and remind them

In our local area we have all teamed together and agreed no burning.

One or two don't seem to get the message, first one got a couple of buckets of water lobbed over the fence to extinguish, second one last night I went after.

Non burners are the majority and those who don't get the message will be asked to stop by somebody and if they still don't get the message we'll get someone from the Tesabahn after them. Next door neighbour is retired teacher and her ex pupils make up most of local govt.

cmsally, I would be very interested to know more about this.

Do you have a local Pu Yai involved? How long have you been doing this? Any tips for others attempting the same?

Our neighbours went to bed last night having left a pile of garden waste smoldering with plastic included in the mix. Our house quickly filled with foul smelling smoke which, no doubt, had a toxic element to it. They woke to a very wet pile of partially burned rubbish. Normally I would be cautious about upsetting the neighbours but there are limits and our toddler's lungs are more important. I was surprised that there was no ranting about the "falang bahr" but it seems they heard my wife and me discussing the problem and "understood" the fact that women who have had a lot of children can be made to feel very ill and even sent insane by nasty smells!!

I would be very interested to know more about how you went about your scheme.

Thanks in advance,

JxP

[Cyberstar]

So I have heard there is now a government order prohibiting the burning of anything, be it rubbish, yard waste, crops. There are now hefty fines in place and the government is taking this seriously. "Any breaches of the new public order will be severely dealt with under the law."

Any more details on this (such as e.g. a source with a tiny bit more substance)?

[PlaShadow]

An image from the International Pyromaniac Association (IPA), which is an organization were most Northern Thai's are granted lifelong membership at birth.

"Pyromania is an intense obsession with fire, explosives, and their related effects. It is also an obsession with starting fires in an intentional fashion." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyromania

[mobs00]

Chiang Mai Governor issues public order prohibiting burning Rubbish incineration and deforestation also prohibited

Staff reporters

As a result of increasing public concern about pollution in the city, its surrounding areas, and the province itself, the Governor of Chiang Mai, Viboon Sanguanphongs, has issued a public order prohibiting burning of all kinds in open areas. Rubbish incineration and the cutting down of trees are also prohibited. The order is highly specific, and is being sent out to all local administration organisations, and also to government agencies in the province.

Prohibited activities include waste incineration, the burning of twigs, leaves, agricultural residue and the burning of areas of forest. Officers are being sent out to instruct the public in alternative ways of eradicating or recycling waste, as recommended by the governor. The province has also designated certain areas as forest fire protection zones. It is hoped that officers will be able to persuade local people to abandon their traditional burning practices and replace them with new methods of waste management in order to produce fertilizer. Any breaches of the new public order will be severely dealt with under the law.

Pollution is caused by incomplete combustion processes forming carbon particles, combined with dust from roads and fields. During the dry and hot seasons, prevailing weather conditions favour the formation of early morning smog and air pollution, as an “inversion layer” of colder air traps warm air below it, preventing it from rising and dissipating polluting particles.

Recently, the Meteorology Department reported that the lessening of a depression over Thailand had caused increases in daytime temperatures in the upper regions of the country, but that the weather was still cold, with cloudy conditions, exactly the conditions which encourage the formation of an inversion layer and the resultant pollution. Airborne pollution is able to travel great distances at altitude as a result of prevailing winds; an example of this being the huge decrease in already unsatisfactory air quality caused by the massive forest fire on the Burmese border during last year’s hot season.

Chiang Mai Mail, January 15, 2008

[mobile69]

Got to agree with Briggsy on this on. The Thai's love a good fire.

I don't think I've ever seen a Thai making a good fire. An unattended, smouldering, smoking pile of damp leaves & plastic bottles hardly constitutes one.

[Bananaman]

I too would like to hear of cmsally's efforts on this topic. Personally, I've been fighting the good fight for a long time and with no success whatsoever. I've reported offenders to the police and been told by them that it's a matter for the Pu Yai Ban so I've then gone to the Pu Yai Ban who's told me it's not his responsibility it's a matter for the local government. Everyone just seems to pass the buck so the line in the article that says:

Any breaches of the new public order will be severely dealt with under the law.

is a total joke really if no one will accept responsibility for bringing offenders to justice.

[anonymouse]

Got to agree with Briggsy on this on. The Thai's love a good fire.

I don't think I've ever seen a Thai making a good fire. An unattended, smouldering, smoking pile of damp leaves & plastic bottles hardly constitutes one.

fair point

[anonymouse]

I too would like to hear of cmsally's efforts on this topic. Personally, I've been fighting the good fight for a long time and with no success whatsoever. I've reported offenders to the police and been told by them that it's a matter for the Pu Yai Ban so I've then gone to the Pu Yai Ban who's told me it's not his responsibility it's a matter for the local government. Everyone just seems to pass the buck so the line in the article that says:

Any breaches of the new public order will be severely dealt with under the law.

is a total joke really if no one will accept responsibility for bringing offenders to justice.

And how are they going to bring this offenders to justice, I noticed a couple of smouldering fields billowing smoke on the way back to Doi Saket the other day. Unless they catch the culprit lighting the fire, it's going to take a bit of work tracking them down. It's ok if its Mr Somchai burning his waste in the back garden and he's nabbed redhanded.

Being the eternal pessimist I think things will get a lot worse before they get better [ if at all]

[JuniorExPat]

I too would like to hear of cmsally's efforts on this topic. Personally, I've been fighting the good fight for a long time and with no success whatsoever. I've reported offenders to the police and been told by them that it's a matter for the Pu Yai Ban so I've then gone to the Pu Yai Ban who's told me it's not his responsibility it's a matter for the local government. Everyone just seems to pass the buck so the line in the article that says:

This exactly why I am interested in reading more from cmsally.

Any long term guest in this country with half an ounce of intelligence knows that the American style of "sue the b@st@rds" is diametrically opposed to the everydayThai style of dealing with matters. Cajoling, compromising (to a point and, on this matter, in the very short term) and informing (not to the police(!), I mean educating) without being condescending are the order of the day.

cmsally - what did you say to people in your scheme? Who exactly did you get support from and how? Thanks again in advance.

JxP

[JuniorExPat]

Bananaman - my last post was not intended to be a pop at you. I just noticed that it may read that way. Of course there comes a point where the assistance of someone in authority may be necessary, I'm just interested to know what others have done to avoid or defer that necessity.

JxP

[JuniorExPat]

And how are they going to bring this offenders to justice, I noticed a couple of smouldering fields billowing smoke on the way back to Doi Saket the other day. Unless they catch the culprit lighting the fire, it's going to take a bit of work tracking them down. It's ok if its Mr Somchai burning his waste in the back garden and he's nabbed redhanded.

Being the eternal pessimist I think things will get a lot worse before they get better [ if at all]

If the person registered as the owner of the land was taken to be responsible for what happens on their land then it shouldn't be too hard to track them down.

JxP

[Greenside]

I bet almost no one will get to hear of this on street level, let alone take any notice without local action of the kind cmsally and her neighbours have taken.

If the impact of the new regulation is low, perhaps concerned TV members should photograph as many violations as possible in one week (or on one day) and submit them all to the Chiang Mai Mail so they could run a whole page of Firestarters instead of the horoscopes they seem to use as filler these days.

I hereby volunteer to co-ordinate this effort.

[cmsally]

I am in town which may make it easier. But there used to be plenty of people burning. I think if you make it known to others you are really against it you will find there are plenty of others who will join you. For example there was one old lady who burnt all kinds of rubbish close to us. A word to her niece who is a well educated reasonable person and it stopped. Getting people to kick the habit one by one, after a couple of years makes a huge difference.

[mobs00]

I bet almost no one will get to hear of this on street level, let alone take any notice without local action of the kind cmsally and her neighbours have taken.

If the impact of the new regulation is low, perhaps concerned TV members should photograph as many violations as possible in one week (or on one day) and submit them all to the Chiang Mai Mail so they could run a whole page of Firestarters instead of the horoscopes they seem to use as filler these days.

I hereby volunteer to co-ordinate this effort.

I am nominating you for "idea of the year" (even though it has just started)

Who knows, with a bit of bad publicity early on maybe some change will happen. I do agree however that without educating the general population and offering them an alternative to removing waste that doesn't cost them anything, it will be very difficult to change an agricultural practice that has been engrained in this culture for hundreds of years. (minus the burnng of plastic)

[cm-happy]

Had a neighbor that used to always burn yard debris in the empty lot next to my house. Got tired of smelling his burning. Finally went to the local moobahn housing estate council and bitched. They talked to the guy and magically the burning stopped.

One more thing. I have a fireplace in my house and during the cold season like to build a fire, glass of wine and cheese.

Are fireplace fires exempt? 0r the terra cotta fireplaces I sometimes see being used in outdoor bars.

[mobs00]

Maybe we could also start a new topic with pictures of fires or the actual people starting them. Would this kind of bad publicity only hurt the local economy or would it spur some change in the government? Either way I am sure we will see another season of burning but a change must start somewhere. If we all work together we may be able to make a difference.

If this new topic does get started maybe the mods could pin it at the top; I am sure that will get some attention from the powers that be.

[lazeeboy]

lets hope they do stop it this year ,i was up there last year and had headaches and trouble breathing the whole time

[anonymouse]

And how are they going to bring this offenders to justice, I noticed a couple of smouldering fields billowing smoke on the way back to Doi Saket the other day. Unless they catch the culprit lighting the fire, it's going to take a bit of work tracking them down. It's ok if its Mr Somchai burning his waste in the back garden and he's nabbed redhanded.

Being the eternal pessimist I think things will get a lot worse before they get better [ if at all]

If the person registered as the owner of the land was taken to be responsible for what happens on their land then it shouldn't be too hard to track them down.

JxP

Ok so the guy who holds this job of tracking 'burning' offenders down, goes to the Land office to find out who owns the land, tracks the offender down to his house, issues him with an option of a fine or court appearance all sounds great in theory but a tad time consuming and add other factors here like corruption and in my opinion it will be very hard to enforce.

CM Sallys hearts and minds approach I'd agree works on a person to person level and is at least a start.

Greensides idea about submitting photos to the Chiang Mai Mail would be a good idea if anyone actually read it

[Donnyboy]

I bet almost no one will get to hear of this on street level, let alone take any notice without local action of the kind cmsally and her neighbours have taken.

If the impact of the new regulation is low, perhaps concerned TV members should photograph as many violations as possible in one week (or on one day) and submit them all to the Chiang Mai Mail so they could run a whole page of Firestarters instead of the horoscopes they seem to use as filler these days.

I hereby volunteer to co-ordinate this effort.

now thats accentuating the positive.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Donnyboy

[mobile69]

Does anyone know what happens to Chiang Mai's garbage. Is there a landfill somewhere, where all the toxins can seep into the groundwater, or is it incinerated? Or is it shipped off to neighbouring provinces undercover of dark, & dumped for someone else to deal with? I'm curious. Maybe Citylife could investigate, if it's not too dangerous a subject to look into.

[JuniorExPat]

Does anyone know what happens to Chiang Mai's garbage. Is there a landfill somewhere, where all the toxins can seep into the groundwater, or is it incinerated? Or is it shipped off to neighbouring provinces undercover of dark, & dumped for someone else to deal with? I'm curious. Maybe Citylife could investigate, if it's not too dangerous a subject to look into.

I'm guessing a lot of it disappears into land that eventually becomes over-priced moo bahns - but I'm feeling cynical today! A surprising amount of rubbish is reused and recycled, we have a regular "rag and bone" man who comes round our way every so often and I've seen a couple of sorting depots in action with piles of separated bottles, cans, cardboard etc.

It would be interesting to know more - I'm sure this has been discussed here before, time to do a search.

JxP

[Sao Jiang Mai]

Good idea. The garbage problem seems to have abated since the new mayor has come into town, but let me look into it and see if I can report on it. There seems to be much more interest in environmental issues these days. This month I have requests to look into air pollution, burning, recycling and now garbage problems: in itself an impressive range of increased awareness.

[mobile69]

I know a lot of recycling goes on, but they must still be a lot of unrecyclable(?). At my last place of residence, garbage was collected by a private garbage truck. My unconfirmed impression was they did a quick look through the bags to see what they could sell on, & the rest was dumped as they drove along the southern outer ring road. Didn't see them do it, but a drive along that road, showed someone was.