To Pay Or Not To Pay?

[wcr]

On 1/11/07 I had an operation in a well known Pattaya hospital. Following this operation I got an infection in hospital and had to go down for a second operation. Following the second operation I got another (and this time critical) infection whilst in the hospital.

This second infection resulted in my going into the critical care unit and then later into intensive care. Pattaya were unable to improve my critical condition and at one stage gave me 3 days to live. This statement prompted family and friends to get me transfered to Bangkok. I was transfered to the Bangkok hospital of the chain.

They admitted me directly into ICU where I was looked after for 2.5 weeks before being well enough to go into a private room. After one month there I was transfered back to Pattaya for recuperation. Prior to leaving BKK I was presented with a bill of 2.2 million Baht which I was unable to pay. I was asked to sign a debit guarantee form which gave me until 31/1/08 to settle the bill. I do have insurance but that was maxed out by the first hospital stay in Pattaya.

I have taken legal advise as I feel that I am not responsible for this bill due to the fact that I got the infection whilst in hospital. I wanted to find out if I could sue the hospital. The advice for the lawyer was that it is very difficult to sue any hospital and that I would need a doctor to back up my claimes, which I probally wouldn't be able to get. He told me not to pay the outstanding bill and wait for them to sue me. At that stage appoint a lawyer and put my case to the judge in court.

I have a couple of problems. 1) I don't have the capital to pay 2.2 Million to the hospital without selling my business. 2) I have ongoing expenses in connection with the original illness that will cost me another 300,000 Baht over the next 6 months.

Anyone able to give me advice on being sued here? My lawyer said it is a civil matter and therefore there is no possibility of my passport being taken away or me being arrested and I will be free to leave the country if I wanted to. I am not too comfortable with this action, however don't have a lot of choice.

[R123]

You mention being "transferred to the Bangkok Hospital of the chain".

What precisely does this mean, and has your lawyer advised you on this?

It ought to be important since the question arises whether the BKK hospital is responsible for what happened in Pattaya?

What is the evidence, medical or otherwise, that it was the Pattaya hospital which caused you to get the infection?

And have you put this allegation to the hospital and if so what do they say?

Can you give more details of the debit guarantee form, does that apply to the Pattaya hospital as well as BKK hospital?

Have you tried asking the likes of Sunbelt to recommend a specialist lawyer or indeed get advice frrom Sunbelt?

On the face ot if sounds like at the moment the advice from your lawyer is sound.

What about trying to negotiate paying part of what is owed?

You really do need specialist legal advice as quite apart from the law in Thailand matters can often be resolved "Out of Court" if parties are prepared to compromise and maybe that is what your lawyer has in mind before it ends in a full Court case.

Remember these hospitals have huge resources and influence if push comes to shove.

Good luck and sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Edited January 17, 2008 by R123

[Chang_paarp]

Was this before the recent sudden change in the management team at the local branch of a large Bangkok baed hospital?

Or after the change of management and subsequent reduction in just about all of their charges?

Edited January 17, 2008 by Chang_paarp

[Irene]

Take your lawyer's advice which sounds to me as practical. The debt is disputable since it is not certain whether the services were professionally rendered. The debts could be time-barred eventually.

[wcr]

You mention being "transferred to the Bangkok Hospital of the chain".

What precisely does this mean, and has your lawyer advised you on this?

It ought to be important since the question arises whether the BKK hospital is responsible for what happened in Pattaya?

What is the evidence, medical or otherwise, that it was the Pattaya hospital which caused you to get the infection?

And have you put this allegation to the hospital and if so what do they say?

Can you give more details of the debit guarantee form, does that apply to the Pattaya hospital as well as BKK hospital?

Have you tried asking the likes of Sunbelt to recommend a specialist lawyer or indeed get advice frrom Sunbelt?

On the face ot if sounds like at the moment the advice from your lawyer is sound.

What about trying to negotiate paying part of what is owed?

You really do need specialist legal advice as quite apart from the law in Thailand matters can often be resolved "Out of Court" if parties are prepared to compromise and maybe that is what your lawyer has in mind before it ends in a full Court case.

Remember these hospitals have huge resources and influence if push comes to shove.

Good luck and sorry to hear about your misfortune.

BKK is certainly not responsible for what happened in Pattaya. My thoughts were to tell BKK to get the money from thier hospital in Pattaya.

The transfer was instigated by my family. The hospital transfered me to thier hospital in BKK. I wasn't aware of what was taking place at this time as I was in and out of consiciousness. I had no lawyer at this time.

I have no evidence per say that the hospital caused the infection. All I know is that I didn't have it when I was admitted, and fell ill after the second operation.

I haven't spoken to Pattaya yet about this as I only got discharged last week. My intention was to communicate with BKK only.

The debit form is only for BKK. I have paid already the amount for Pattaya and cleared that side of the bill.

I haven't spoken to Sunbelt.

I also believe the bill at 2.2 Million sounds high for a 1 month stay. That equals about 73,000 per day! I have paid a 100,000 Baht initial payment to the hospital prior to being discharged.

[R123]

I have read your latest posting and again you have my sympathy for your medical problems etc. The reason I asked about being transferred to the BKK hospital "of the chain" as you call it is that it ought to be a issue whether in law the BKK hospital is responsible for what happened in Pattaya. Though whilst they may be in the same group it may be they are separate entities hence no responsible by one for the faults of the other. You say BKK "is not responsible for what happened in Pattaya", well if that is the case and I am not saying in law it is, but if it is, then you cannot hold BKK responsible for what happened in Pattaya, negligent or otherwise.Just because one hospital fouled things up you cannot hold another responsible unless you can show it is the same legal entity. And you say you have no evidence that the hospital caused the infection, course a Westernised legal system would apply the principle of "the facts speak for themselves" but unfortunately in Thailand things can be and often are different. And you also mention the Pattaya bill is already paid and what is owed is from BKK. It is beginning to sound to me you may be better off trying to negotiate and reduce what is owed and settle rather than allow this to go on too long. An experienced lawyer especially from a major BKK firm with some skill and diplomacy ought to be able to negotiate a reduction in the bill as: I agree on the face of it the total charge sounds outrageous subject to seeing an itemised bill. I of course give my views with the proviso you ought to get professional advice from a lawyer based here in Thailand who specializes in this field.That advice may be different. By the way it is correct what your current lawyer told you, this is a civil matter so no risk you will have your passport taken away. Good Luck.

Edited January 18, 2008 by R123

[MisterFingers]

Many surgeries carry the risk of infection or other complications and these setbacks are usually unavoidable.

What I mean is, it's probably not the hospital's fault even if you're right that this infection happened as a result of the surgery.

Unless you have direct evidence of malpractice, you have no case for suing a hospital.

So then from my point of view you have three options:

1) Pay the bill and stay in Thailand

- try to do it without losing your business, but sell your business if necessary

2) Don't pay the bill and stay in Thailand

- this might involve some dishonesty such as selling your business and stashing the money so you have nothing in your name, and therefore nothing for them to collect

- this of course might cause you visa and other problems down the line

3) Leave Thailand

- sell your business, take the money, and run

My personal suggestion is number one. Like I said, in all likelihood, it's nobody's fault that you got this infection. Surgery is a risky procedure at all times.