Hollywood Buddha..

[Neeranam]

funny if Kwiz is from France

I suspect England though.

[Coffee Dude]

Tell me if any director has ever put a poster sitting on the head of Jesus..?

Ummm. did you see the Exorcist? You know the "<deleted> Jesus, <deleted> Jesus" scene? Not exactly sitting but it was pretty bad.

I haven't seen the posters nor read much about the film to which you refer so I don't know the context of the scene. I don't know maybe a depiction of the absolute wrong thing to do? Can't say.

Although I understand that this is considered the equivilent of sacrilage in any context.

There is a thread in the Buddhism section of Thaivisa that discusses a bit more on the subject.

Coffee!!!

[meemiathai]

I think he said before he was from Sri Lanka.

[Axel]

None of the religions in this world really concern me. That's my business.

I agree, however, to tolerate and respect somebody devoted to any of it. That's his/her business.

Now somebody published a poster, apparently dis-respectful. Once told he apologized and promised to take the posters away.

That's it imo. Finished, stop it. He claims he did not know. In dubio pro reo, let's believe he did not know.

I cannot reallycomment on Buddhism, but isn't there somewhere a teaching of tolerance?

[wolf5370]

The poster is offensive to Buddhists.

The Thai authorities have raised it and action has been taken - posters replaced and appaology before each showing.

So, what's the problem. Kwiz I understand you initial anger - its only human.

In the UK I have twice had to iform shopkeepers that they were unknowingly being offensive to Buddhists - in both cases this was rectified immediately (both to do with garden ornament Buddha statues being inappropriately placed/used). It is all ignorance rather than intended offensiveness (unlike the Jesus in piss thing above!).

May be the Buddhists amongst us should read some of the Buddhas words with regard to attachment and anxiety.

Remember, you can only take yourself to Nibbana, you can't carry someone else. You can help others in their direction, help with their path - this helps your karma too. However, that person has to make their own path; their own karma. What use is there in holding a grudge against someone who has damaged themselves and took steps to redeem themselves. This merely hurts you further. Check out the noble 8 way path: Right Understanding, Mindedness, Speech, Action, Livlihood, Effort, Attentiveness and Concentration. Seems to me that this filmaker's actions where distructive in that they caused offense, but this was not volitional, so not karma damaging. However, when corrected had taken correct action using many of the 8 way path's attributes; karma lifting.

[Spee]

PS: just for the record, I agree that the movie poster is offensive to Buddhists.

Kudos to PvtDick for keeping the level head through all of this and expressing my sentiments almost exactly.

Another thing to keep in mind is that because of this faux paux, the chances of this movie ever getting formally released (piracy aside) in a country with a high Buddhist population is now about nil.

That will hit the Hollywood types right where it concerns them the most, in their wallet. Isn't that the most just reward?

(For the record, I'm not super religious but I'm no atheist either. I do believe that one's beliefs are between them and their maker, and get real PO'd when people start thrusting their individual beliefs about. That is how most of the major troubles with killing and terrorism get their start.)

[Darknight]

The poster is offensive to Buddhists.

The Thai authorities have raised it and action has been taken - posters replaced and appaology before each showing.

So, what's the problem. Kwiz I understand you initial anger - its only human.

He Sometimes just get his Head up the wrong side to .Then suddenly you see posts like this.

What's a matter K ? Something wrong in your vision of the world again?

Every Normal person can see this in it's relative context. YOu don't here me complaining about the ignorant Asians Who portray the swastika in their Beer Bars . Or people pointing a finger at you and yelling " farang farang".

Let alone the racist tendancy's yours and most second world asian country's have ?

As a buddhist i can see no reason for a rule of not pointing your feet ect..

It was not what Buddha tought, it's not related to being a good buddhist or not.

It's a comman courtesy rule gone out of hand. that's all.

SO instead of advertising this movie , i think buddha would suggest to ignore the distractions of the ignorant world and focus on your inner being.

[frodo]

The poster is offensive to Buddhists.

The Thai authorities have raised it and action has been taken - posters replaced and appaology before each showing.

Thai authorities? Let's be real here! How many authorities can honestly say they practice true Buddhism? With the amount of corruption being commonplace, murders taking place at the whim of an "authority," I really don't buy this at all. Sure, it's an act of ignorance by the director, however, he made his apologies. Buddha did teach about forgiveness. Living in Bangkok, I can't really say this is a true or followed practice anymore. Greed, revenge, theft and corruption have taken over the true Buddhist way. The Thai's can get angry all they want, but me thinks if they are true to what they say they are, they need to let go, forgive and accept. One more thing...the middle path doen't mean drinking whisky and getting pissed every night. Seems a little two-faced to me.

[wolf5370]

Well, while that's true. It is also true of most religions. Two wrongs don't make a right though. Just because most Thai's do not follow the words of Buddha and sway wide of the religion from time to time (as we all do), that is no reason to allow disrespect to that religion.

I agree with the pointing feet thing. It is a courteousy blown out of proportion. However, the poster shows a man sitting on a statue's head. This would be disrespectful to ANY religion. A follower of that religion, however lax, still has a right to be angry at other's disrespect.

Should we not get angry if someone burns our country's flag even though we are hardly true patriates - living abroad in a foreign culture by choice (by and large). Is it wrong to be angry?

I never buy this "Thais are bad Buddhists, so do not have a say in religious matters" k-rap. We are all bad at following our religions. Read your chosen book and see how closely you follow the 'rules/guidelines'. Even the most fanatical Mullahs twist the words, take things out of context and add in words and meanings that were never there. This, in my view, makes them less holy than the poor twerp they are corruption that knows so very little of their own religion.

If religion was easy to follow, it probably would not exist. All religions aim to make people better than they are, a goal. Attaining that goal is going to be difficult. It must be to make it worth attaining.

[PvtDick]

So how about it, Kwiz? Are you going to apologize for inflicting "shame" on all Americans because of the actions of a single man who, it turns out, isn't even American at all? Wouldn't it be the Buddhist thing to at least say you are sorry?

[Darknight]

kwiz explained before in another thread gone haywire that he's not a practising buddhist, he's only born in a buddhist country

He's also only good at shooting his mouth of sometimes, then you never hear from him again for 2 months.

Guess he won't be back soon

[tuktukmike]

Hi All

I am english and roared with laughter at life of brian, liked the maddonna video Like A Prayer, And really dont take all this sort of thing too seriously.

But on the subject of nationalitys when people start blaming the Americans for all the worlds evil i think back to what happend in Afganistan when the Taliban decided to blow up the buddist symbols that were carved out of a rock face.

I dont recall many buddist followers declairing war on the Taliban or their faith or lack of respect for others religious stance.

mike

[jurie]

i'm thai naja

I have heard from some missionaries trying to persuade me to believe in god and insulted buddhism by telling me what the buddha had tought was so stupid ...

i disagreed ,but just stayed in quiet.. because i understood Dhamma quite well so there's no reason to argue ( don't waste your precious time on something waste ) and i still believe in buddhism

i don't care if someone looks down my cultures my belief or looks at me as a prostitute because i know that i am not and thai cultures and buddhism completely match with thailand

But... i'd like to tell you , all americans... something you call "The U.S. Constitutions" is not "The World Constitutions" so you have no Rights to judge other world people

Why people are bored about America...

For my case ,you try to meddle our interior affairs .if you don't understand situation' details ,please stay still

you don't need to show your power on what you're not involved , it doesn't make you smarter ( like in Russian President 'speeches )

you blame others while you're doing the same thing

you force developing countries to follow WTO laws but you don't

[PvtDick]

I dont recall many buddist followers declairing war on the Taliban or their faith or lack of respect for others religious stance.

No...as I recall they blamed the US for putting the Taliban into power and keeping them there.

[Coffee Dude]

I certainly agree with the sentiments of most posters here who say one should respect the cultural beliefs of an area. 100%

But correct me if I'm wrong. Buddhism is a phylosophy not a religion and Pra Buddha didn't believe in dieties.

Coffee!!!

[meemiathai]

It is as simple as that, people hate the US because it is a strong country. Their human instinct will make themselves believe that if someone is stronger, they will bully others and people won't be able to do anything. They are afraid and, stupid I would say. Also, part of the reason is people are jealous of the US. Coz they are rich and can enjoy a free life.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

It is true that Americans as a whole do have a habit of pissing off other countries and yet fail to see it because they are so introspective and ignorant BUT also remember that most American expats living in Thailand are not from the same batch - there are many Americans who would agree that this director should have been a little more thoughtful and respectful to Bhuddism.

I myself am not a fan of America or what it stands for but I have learned that much the same as England, there are like minded decent folk out there and more so over here, even if the majority are idiots.

By putting the brush in the tar you will piss off decent, intelligent Americans who are members of this forum.

Let me sing you the following song...

Ahem.

America your head's too big, Because America, Your belly's too big

And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is

In America, The land of the free, they said, And of opportunity, In a just and a truthful way

But where the president, Is never black, female or gay, And until that day

You've got nothing to say to me, To help me believe

In America, It brought you the hamburger, Well America you know where, You can shove your hamburger

And don't you wonder, Why in Estonia they say, Hey you, Big fat pig

You fat pig, You fat pig

Steely Blue eyes with no love in them, Scan The World,

And a humourless smile, With no warmth within, Greets the world

And I, I have got nothing, To offer you

No-no-no-no-no

Just this heart deep and true, Which you say you don't need

See with your eyes, Touch with your hands, please, Hear through your ears, Know in your soul, please, for the sake of the rest of us GROW UP, thankyou.

Edited September 12, 2004 by The Gentleman Scamp

[jurie]

I'm sorry to tell you that you got wrong ,we don't care how free you are ...i never be jealous ,it will be great if america are strong country and don't try to blame others .just let them be in the way they are and i love the way of thailand, although we don't have freedom like you have.. but we know the reason why we have to be .we know what make thai society moving ..i have heard from some sources - american women try to convince japanese women to abandon lifestyle of being housewife but japanese always know the lifestyle results their perfect family you don't understand this cultural detail because you never care of it.. but you try to show that people who behave in the way they want to be are wrong ..is it clear enough for you to understand my thoughts ? Or you still thinking we are jealous on you?

i can't explain more because i can't use english well.. sorry

[jurie]

I hate having argument, just to make it clear

[Ice Treasure]

I have been trying to explain to our son, why someone would do that. we went to the web site and found ... http://www.thaitemple.org/html/hellow.html ..this.

The apology, the explanation (in Thai), and the undertaking to change.

Kwiz, I actually have an easier time understanding your outrage than most. I have also been able to explain it wasn't an American at all, it was an IGNORANT PERSON.. of whatever nationality (French in fact), supported by LA film studio money in small part, and now distributed by Americans..

Issue is the person on The Lord Buddhas Head, was IGNORANT of how we as Buddhists see the issue. He has been informed of our disquiet and our dismay at seeing the Head of the Lord Buddha affronted in such a way.

Let it go, be Jai Yen Yen and move forward. Say Wai Phra that the man may find guidance in his immediate future. If you dislike the idea, don't see the film, it will only make you angry.

You can make comments here.. http://www.ybg.com/hollywoodbuddha/ . Try to help him learn without vindictive ranting.

[PvtDick]

Jurie,

You may not speak perfect English, but if it weren't for the United States you would certainly speak EXCELLENT Japanese. Probably no Thai, though.

[kat]

I'm an American, and I thought the poster for "Hollywood Buddha" was horrifying. Anyone who went to the trouble to write and direct a film with that title, and then produce it, should have educated themselves about the possibility of offending cultural sensitivities with a picture of someone sitting on Buddha's head. I really can't get over the stupidity.

But then again, I also can't get over the stupidity or insensitivity of many European tourists that come to S.E. Asia and then sunbathe topless or practically naked on a beach. Seems to me Americans don't hold a monopoly on stupidity, we just get a much wider mass-media distribution on our transgressions. It's popular.

Many of us Americans also don't get the benefit of European social democracies, where we can travel around the world while our debts are postponed, or while we collect a nice unemployment benefit from home. This is a privilege that many Americans don't have, compared to Europeans who love to comment on how we don't travel. It is not as easy for the ordinary American to travel as it is for the ordinary Western European or Brit.

Before some of you accuse me of being a reactionary American, hold your fire, because nothing could be further from the truth. I just loathe the rampant hypocrisy of holding America to a different standard than many people hold to their own or other countries. It's ok to be morally outraged at America (much of it deserved, no doubt, as I am often morally outraged at both the foreign and domestic policies of my country), but then stare blankly or indignantly or even ignorantly when less than palatable facts are known about your own or other countries.

And for Kwiz, or others who spout ideas similar to his, who would like to hold me, and all other Americans responsible for the ignorance of a French director and the American production company, I have some pointed questions for you:

Should I hold all Thai men/buddhists responsible for the rapes and unpunished crimes perpetrated on Western women in this country?

Should I form the opinion that most Sri Lankan men are child molesters, because both boy and girl sexual abuse is above 50% there, and is considered to be at epidemic proportions by people that report on these issues worldwide (as recently reported by several Sri Lankan and international NGOs)?

Should I wonder about the contradiction that most Thai vendors on Khao San road treat many foreigners with an air of hatred (for not being the "right" kind of tourist), while earning their livelihoods charging at least double to quadruple for everything?

Should I hold you, Kwiz, or Thais responsible for the ridiculous nonsense that is represented almost daily in the Thai media about foreigners?

Should I note the extreme hypocrisy of Thai/S.E. Asian society (with the exception of Cambodia, who has recently admitted that they have a serious problem), by only punishing and publishing the names and pictures of foreign pedophilles, in a society that has between 30-50% of homegrown pedophilla (UN ESCAP 2001/2)?

Should I blame all Thais for the effluvia that gains entry to my country on a visa, and then run the same corrupt rackets such as prostitution, trafficking, and hit-men style murders?

Should I even blame those who don't even know their own ###### history, for blaming those who do?

The answer to these questions is no, but I struggle with them every day, as well as the ugliness of my own society, because it seems like the whole lot of us in the human race have become stranded down some god-forsaken place. I will most likely have to worry about some of these quotes being used out of context, or even possibly being blacklisted from this country for even raising the question.

I've never thought of myself as a religous person, and I think spiritual/religous beliefs are a personal issue. But I think the statement "Do not cast the first stone without casting one against yourself" should be meditated upon from time to time.

So let's see, Frenchman and American production company choose a stupid and offensive visual, receive the complaints, hear them, apologize and make amends by repeating the apology everytime they show the movie. Gain of face for Thailand and Buddhists, and those in the west stand corrected. A good outcome.

Other side of the coin:

.... British girl is raped and murdered in 2000, no trial, no culprit. New double murder of British citizens .... well, time will tell what the score is there. And countless others. I can only hazard a guess.

[sendbaht]

Interesting, you make a good point, pvtdick....

[meemiathai]

I'm sorry to tell you that you got wrong ,we don't care how free you are ...i never be jealous ,it will be great if america are strong country and don't try to blame others .just let them be in the way they are and i love the way of thailand, although we don't have freedom like you have.. but we know the reason why we have to be .we know what make thai society moving ..i have heard from some sources - american women try to convince japanese women to abandon lifestyle of being housewife but japanese always know the lifestyle results their perfect family you don't understand this cultural detail because you never care of it.. but you try to show that people who behave in the way they want to be are wrong ..is it clear enough for you to understand my thoughts ? Or you still thinking we are jealous on you?

i can't explain more because i can't use english well.. sorry

jurie,

just in case you think that I am American. I am not an American. And I am not saying that you should be jealous. But there are people who are jealous and hate Americans for ridiculous reasons. Every country has its goods and bads, but some people just focus on the bad things only just because they are from America.

[meemiathai]

And I would say, a true Buddhist wouldn't be upset even if someone step his foot on the Buddha's head. But you see, there are hardly any true Buddhists in this world. Not even in thailand!

[meemiathai]

Jurie,

You may not speak perfect English, but if it weren't for the United States you would certainly speak EXCELLENT Japanese. Probably no Thai, though.

that's if he/she has the chance to be borned.

[Axel]

I hate having argument, just to make it clear

You made it bright and clear. Whoever and where ever we are, let's respect the local ideas. I agree to you, whatever nationality you are, no others have a right to critisize.

[Boon Mee]

Jeeeez...another America-bashing thread. All I can say is:

"Life is tough . . ."

". . . but it's tougher when you're stupid."

[Dickie]

I am getting tired of Americans being the Bad Guy like the thread starter said shame on all americans now we have a new thread saying it is a french man so who is it americans or french?? are you going to say shame on all french people or shame on the director!!!

I'm English so I've always said "shame on all french people".

[Dickie]

So let's see, Frenchman and American production company choose a stupid and offensive visual, receive the complaints, hear them, apologize and make amends by repeating the apology everytime they show the movie.  Gain of face for Thailand and Buddhists, and those in the west stand corrected.  A good outcome.

Nicely put. The whole thing, though I trimmed it to save space.

Other side of the coin:

.... British girl is raped and murdered in 2000, no trial, no culprit.  New double murder of British citizens .... well, time will tell what the score is there.  And countless others.  I can only hazard a guess.

Hmmm... looks like the Yanks ain't the only people being dug at.