68 Tet Offensive

[farang prince]

I salute all of you guys that were there and did your job in spite of Cronkite's BS opinion.

I don't look down on the Vietnam Vets, but I definitely don't salute them, or hold them high in my opinion.

They were very ignorant and young.

They sheep that were told to go to Vietnam, and did so.

The Vets didn't study the Vietnamese language, history, nor have strong political or ideological views, and were too young to be considered educated. The average was about 19.

The average DEROS date was after 1 year. Most vets spent the first 6 months learning, and the last 6 months trying to stay alive.

That's not a commitment. That's being a sheep.

The Americans were in Vietnam for their own financial interests, and couldn't care less about the Vietnamese people. Yes, a few individual vets may have cared, but that's the exception, not the rule.

I grew up in Berlin Germany, across from the Berlin wall and believed that I was going there to stop communism and the Domino theory and all that. I stayed longer than the obligatory 12 month tour and spoke Vietnamese ... and not just the bad words. I resent the implicaiton that we were sheep. Many of us cared and cared enough to volunteer and try to make a difference. And please explain to me for what financial interest I was there for? There was no oil there, nor gold or diamonds etc. I have never seen anyone that made money from Vietnam, except maybe for DOW Chemical and Colt Weapons Industries and I doubt they made a lot.

Your apology is accepted.

Mouse you said it all. It seems virtually every topic on Thai Visa has at least one idiot that tries to flame the rest of the posters.

P.S. Sorry about the unit screw-up. I need to bone up on the old unit designations from the Nam era.

[Wrong Turn]

I didn't apologize, and I wasn't flaming you, nor anyone else. I'll let you folks get back on topic.

But I will add: the Domino Theory was bunk for many reasons: Sino-Soviet split, Indonesia's Suharto in '65, and Malaya in '55.

And in 1991, the USSR imploded.

[farang prince]

I didn't apologize, and I wasn't flaming you, nor anyone else. I'll let you folks get back on topic.

But I will add: the Domino Theory was bunk for many reasons: Sino-Soviet split, Indonesia's Suharto in '65, and Malaya in '55.

And in 1991, the USSR imploded.

Thanks for that history lesson.

[sriracha john]

Big sis was an Army nurse working the operating room at an Evac mobile hospital during the Tet. She did back to back tours in Nam after finishing college and chose the Army because their recruiter could put her in country before any of the other services could, which is what she wanted.

I salute her and all other Nam vets from the bottom of my heart.

Vietnam Veterans Memorial Women's Statute

Edited January 24, 2008 by sriracha john

[farang prince]

Big sis was an Army nurse working the operating room at an Evac mobile hospital during the Tet. She did back to back tours in Nam after finishing college and chose the Army because their recruiter could put her in country before any of the other services could, which is what she wanted.

I salute her and all other Nam vets from the bottom of my heart.

Vietnam Veterans Memorial Women's Statute

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

[Wrong Turn]

I didn't apologize, and I wasn't flaming you, nor anyone else. I'll let you folks get back on topic.

But I will add: the Domino Theory was bunk for many reasons: Sino-Soviet split, Indonesia's Suharto in '65, and Malaya in '55.

And in 1991, the USSR imploded.

Thanks for that history lesson.

It's not a history lesson - unless you're ignorant or uninformed.

Two questions for your, "Farang Prince."

1. How old were you when you were supporting the South. Was killing Ngo Dinh Diem a good idea? Was supporting Nguyen Khanh? Or, Nguyen Van Thieu?

and,

2. What was your education level at that time?

[farang prince]

I didn't apologize, and I wasn't flaming you, nor anyone else. I'll let you folks get back on topic.

But I will add: the Domino Theory was bunk for many reasons: Sino-Soviet split, Indonesia's Suharto in '65, and Malaya in '55.

And in 1991, the USSR imploded.

Thanks for that history lesson.

It's not a history lesson - unless you're ignorant or uninformed.

Two questions for your, "Farang Prince."

1. How old were you when you were supporting the South. Was killing Ngo Dinh Diem a good idea? Was supporting Nguyen Khanh? Or, Nguyen Van Thieu?

and,

2. What was your education level at that time?

To answer your questions:

1. I was 20 when I first went to RSVN. I was not very concerned about the internal politics of the South Vietnamese. I was more concerned with staying alive.

2. I had almost two years of college.

Now I have a few questions for you.

1. How old are you?

2. Did you ever serve in the military in whatever country you are from?

[jenniferjuniper]

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

I just checked Wikipedia and found out that 5 million Vietnamese died during the " American War ", 4 million civilians, 1 million military and 600, 000 wounded. God knows how many have been affected by the defoliant agent Orange, both Americans and Vietnamese.

Best to keep some sort of perspective going but I'm not taking potshots.

You guys are lucky to be alive and have every right to take a stroll down memory lane. You went as young men and survived a war which most of us have never experienced but secretly would like to. I'm still fascinated by ithe conflict and read up on it whenever something new comes along.

I read Michael Herr's Dispatches and thought it captured what it might have been like. Any truth to that?

[Wrong Turn]

Now I have a few questions for you.

1. How old are you?

2. Did you ever serve in the military in whatever country you are from?

Fair questions, FP:

I am 38 (Born in 1970.)

No, I didn't ever serve in the military, but respect those that do, and have. I do respect all Vets.

My point in political, not military.

[farang prince]

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

I just checked Wikipedia and found out that 5 million Vietnamese died during the " American War ", 4 million civilians, 1 million military and 600, 000 wounded. God knows how many have been affected by the defoliant agent Orange, both Americans and Vietnamese.

Best to keep some sort of perspective going but I'm not taking potshots.

You guys are lucky to be alive and have every right to take a stroll down memory lane. You went as young men and survived a war which most of us have never experienced but secretly would like to. I'm still fascinated by ithe conflict and read up on it whenever something new comes along.

I read Michael Herr's Dispatches and thought it captured what it might have been like. Any truth to that?

The dead and wounded figures aren't correct. There were far more wounded than dead. The problem with trying to quote statistics from the Vietnam War is that the North Vietnamese didn't reveal their numbers of dead or wounded or missing because of propaganda purposes. I wouldn't believe anything they said about their casualties, even to this day. And you are right, Agent Orange continues to kill to this day...both Vietnamese and Americans.

There were a lot of civilian casualties, both North and South. Although much of the combat in the South was in rural areas, the people who lived in small villages and hamlets took a terrible toll when the fighting broke out around them. Part of that was that the VC and NVA dug defensive perimeters around many villages and the VC especially were part of the local populace. It was often hard to tell friend from foe...until the shooting began.

During my first year in RSVN, my unit was involved in a clearing operation in the Bong Son Plains, an area in N.E. S. Vietnam. We would enter a village, check for weapons and for rice caches that were used by the VC and NVA, and then if we didn't find anything, move on to the next village. Three or four weeks later, we might come back to the same ville and this time we'd take heavy sniper and automatic weapons fired from a company of VC or NVA who had built extensive bunker and trench systems all around the village. We would have to suppress that incoming fire with field artillery and air strikes. People living in those villages would be killed or maimed along with the enemy soldiers. That was part of the nature of war in S. Vietnam...the enemy would deliberately mix their troops and munitions among the civilian population and that certainly increased the casualty rate for the civilians.

It was nasty, bloody fighting and few Vietnam vets came home without the scars of war. As I have said before, I rarely go through a night where I'm not back in some rice paddy or jungle fighting some of the same battles, over and over again, in my sleep. I wake up in the morning soaked in sweat.

You asked if I have read "Dispatches" by Michael Herr. Yes, I have. Michael is an excellent writer. He spent most of his time with the Marines in CTZ I. He was rarely with my unit -- the 1st Cav. Michael's description of the American soldier in Vietnam was one of who was a little crazy and quite likely using drugs. That just isn't the case. Drug use was not widespread in the line units in S. Vietnam because you really couldn't be high on drugs or drunk on alcohol and expect to survive a firefight. People who used drugs in my unit were shunned because we knew we couldn't trust them. As Michael wrote in his book, he himself was a heavy drug user and I think this has discolored some of his thinking about the American soldier. Were we a little crazy? Not like some of Michael's soldiers that he wrote about for his magazine articles and books. I can understand why he focused on these types of people...they made better material. But the guys in my units (I was there for two tours with different battalions) were young and loved to have fun when we would be pulled off the line and go back to our base camp. Many guys would blow off steam with the "boom boom" girls, as the Vietnamese prostitutes were called. Others would write home or try to catch up on our sleep (we were always damned tired in Vietnam, both from the stress of combat and the miserable conditions we were in). Some would get drunk. A few might get high. But the stereotype of the American soldier in Vietnam as high and crazy (and perpetuated by Michael Herr and Oliver Stone and other Hollywood types) just isn't true. We were young, scared, and not well-prepared for the type of combat that we had to face in S. Vietnam when we arrived. Those of us who were lucky to leave were much older than our years, thankful that God, Allah, Buddha or the "Great First Sergeant in the Sky" had watched over us for our 365-day tour and sober in our knowledge that much better soldiers than us had gone home in a body bag simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If they are being honest, most Vietnam vets will tell you that their trauma of being in war then extended into the trauma of a nasty homecoming in the USA, where anti-war protesters would scream at us that we were "baby killers" and psychopaths. And people in our hometowns would treat us like we were lepers. I had a girl that I had been dating before I went to RSVN who called me up when she heard I had come home. She asked me out to dinner. And while we were sitting in a nice romantic restaurant, she looked me in the eye and said, "It must have been terrible for you. Did you kill a lot of people?" What a fun dinner date.

The way we were treated when we returned home is one reason why thousands of Vietnam Vets make a point to organize welcome home parades and events for the troops returning home from their tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. We will never forget.

Edited January 25, 2008 by farang prince

[skipvice]

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

I just checked Wikipedia and found out that 5 million Vietnamese died during the " American War ", 4 million civilians, 1 million military and 600, 000 wounded. God knows how many have been affected by the defoliant agent Orange, both Americans and Vietnamese.

Best to keep some sort of perspective going but I'm not taking potshots.

You guys are lucky to be alive and have every right to take a stroll down memory lane. You went as young men and survived a war which most of us have never experienced but secretly would like to. I'm still fascinated by ithe conflict and read up on it whenever something new comes along.

I read Michael Herr's Dispatches and thought it captured what it might have been like. Any truth to that?

The dead and wounded figures aren't correct. There were far more wounded than dead. The problem with trying to quote statistics from the Vietnam War is that the North Vietnamese didn't reveal their numbers of dead or wounded or missing because of propaganda purposes. I wouldn't believe anything they said about their casualties, even to this day. And you are right, Agent Orange continues to kill to this day...both Vietnamese and Americans.

There were a lot of civilian casualties, both North and South. Although much of the combat in the South was in rural areas, the people who lived in small villages and hamlets took a terrible toll when the fighting broke out around them. Part of that was that the VC and NVA dug defensive perimeters around many villages and the VC especially were part of the local populace. It was often hard to tell friend from foe...until the shooting began.

During my first year in RSVN, my unit was involved in a clearing operation in the Bong Son Plains, an area in N.E. S. Vietnam. We would enter a village, check for weapons and for rice caches that were used by the VC and NVA, and then if we didn't find anything, move on to the next village. Three or four weeks later, we might come back to the same ville and this time we'd take heavy sniper and automatic weapons fired from a company of VC or NVA who had built extensive bunker and trench systems all around the village. We would have to suppress that incoming fire with field artillery and air strikes. People living in those villages would be killed or maimed along with the enemy soldiers. That was part of the nature of war in S. Vietnam...the enemy would deliberately mix their troops and munitions among the civilian population and that certainly increased the casualty rate for the civilians.

It was nasty, bloody fighting and few Vietnam vets came home without the scars of war. As I have said before, I rarely go through a night where I'm not back in some rice paddy or jungle fighting some of the same battles, over and over again, in my sleep. I wake up in the morning soaked in sweat.

You asked if I have read "Dispatches" by Michael Herr. Yes, I have. Michael is an excellent writer. He spent most of his time with the Marines in CTZ I. He was rarely with my unit -- the 1st Cav. Michael's description of the American soldier in Vietnam was one of who was a little crazy and quite likely using drugs. That just isn't the case. Drug use was not widespread in the line units in S. Vietnam because you really couldn't be high on drugs or drunk on alcohol and expect to survive a firefight. People who used drugs in my unit were shunned because we knew we couldn't trust them. As Michael wrote in his book, he himself was a heavy drug user and I think this has discolored some of his thinking about the American soldier. Were we a little crazy? Not like some of Michael's soldiers that he wrote about for his magazine articles and books. I can understand why he focused on these types of people...they made better material. But the guys in my units (I was there for two tours with different battalions) were young and loved to have fun when we would be pulled off the line and go back to our base camp. Many guys would blow off steam with the "boom boom" girls, as the Vietnamese prostitutes were called. Others would write home or try to catch up on our sleep (we were always damned tired in Vietnam, both from the stress of combat and the miserable conditions we were in). Some would get drunk. A few might get high. But the stereotype of the American soldier in Vietnam as high and crazy (and perpetuated by Michael Herr and Oliver Stone and other Hollywood types) just isn't true. We were young, scared, and not well-prepared for the type of combat that we had to face in S. Vietnam when we arrived. Those of us who were lucky to leave were much older than our years, thankful that God, Allah, Buddha or the "Great First Sergeant in the Sky" had watched over us for our 365-day tour and sober in our knowledge that much better soldiers than us had gone home in a body bag simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If they are being honest, most Vietnam vets will tell you that their trauma of being in war then extended into the trauma of a nasty homecoming in the USA, where anti-war protesters would scream at us that we were "baby killers" and psychopaths. And people in our hometowns would treat us like we were lepers. I had a girl that I had been dating before I went to RSVN who called me up when she heard I had come home. She asked me out to dinner. And while we were sitting in a nice romantic restaurant, she looked me in the eye and said, "It must have been terrible for you. Did you kill a lot of people?" What a fun dinner date.

The way we were treated when we returned home is one reason why thousands of Vietnam Vets make a point to organize welcome home parades and events for the troops returning home from their tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. We will never forget.

Very well put farang prince. I still have bad dreams about that war and some good dreams about R&R to Bangkok.

[TokyoT]

No, I didn't ever serve in the military, but respect those that do, and have. I do respect all Vets.

Yes, Obviously. I too rarely have a high opinion of those that I respect.

I don't look down on the Vietnam Vets, but I definitely don't salute them, or hold them high in my opinion.

[Orangutan]

41st Eng. Co. at Bein Hoa...hit the ceiling then the perimeter when the VC blew up the ammo dump.

-O

[farang prince]

41st Eng. Co. at Bein Hoa...hit the ceiling then the perimeter when the VC blew up the ammo dump.

-O

They heard that explosion in downtown Saigon as I recall.

[Orangutan]

41st Eng. Co. at Bein Hoa...hit the ceiling then the perimeter when the VC blew up the ammo dump.

-O

They heard that explosion in downtown Saigon as I recall.

An initial huge mushroom cloud followed by a tremendous shock wave, I was thrown 4 ft. up off my bunk...I thought holy <deleted>*#k is Russia helpin' now!

-O

[farang prince]

Now I have a few questions for you.

1. How old are you?

2. Did you ever serve in the military in whatever country you are from?

Fair questions, FP:

I am 38 (Born in 1970.)

No, I didn't ever serve in the military, but respect those that do, and have. I do respect all Vets.

My point in political, not military.

When I read your response to my questions, Wrong Turn, I had to stifle a little smile. From your original post, I knew that you did not have first-hand knowledge of the military personnel in Vietnam and I also suspected that you hadn't been in the military before.

That's okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the Vietnam War.

If you talk to some of us old vets after a few beers, you would probably be surprised at how critical we are of our political and military leadership before, during and after the war. From the beginning we did not fight the war to win it. We fought it to create a draw so there would be a negotiated peace.

I will never forgive Robert S. McNamara for his handling of the war when he was Secretary of Defense. To come out in a book 35 years after the fact and say he knew the war was unwinnable when it was only a year old to me is a total betrayal of the thousands of American troops that he sent into harms way. And Lyndon Johnson's insistence on micro-managing the war was laughable. Beyond that, Johnson refused to allow American troops to pursue the enemy into Laos and Cambodia. This allowed the NVA to engage us, then slip back into Laos or Cambodia without fear of being pursued and attacked. We fought a shadow war in Laos with surrogates, instead of putting a couple of our infantry divisions on the Laotian plains. We could have completely interdicted the Ho Chi Minh Trail at its northern terminus. Instead, Johnson allowed the North Vietnamese to expand the Ho Chi Minh Trail and supply the NVA year around.

When Nixon finally gave us the green light to conduct raids into Cambodia, the 1st Cavalry Division seized tons of equipment. Not surprisingly, the North Vietnamese returned to the negotiating table in Paris to begin discussions of a truce (the North Vietnamese were never serious about a truce...they just wanted the Americans to leave and the American politicians were only too happy to go along with the charade.).

On the military side, Gen. Westmoreland was a terrible tactician. He first began using the concept of "body count" to chart the progress of the war. This was a bullshit tactic that blew up in his face during Tet 68 when it was obvious that the "body count" totals had been serious inflated by troops in the field. The reason he used the "body count" tactic to chart the progress of the war is that we didn't have enough troops to take and hold ground. As a result, we would waste time and effort chasing the VC and the NVA around the country and they would only fight us on their terms...when the numbers, terrain and surprise worked to their advantage. The few times that we could fix and assault the enemy, we destroyed them.

Thank God the 1st Cav had some great generals, like Tolson and Roberts, who really used the concept of air mobility to excellent effect. But we never had enough helicopters in Vietnam, thanks to McNamara's bean counters in Washington. As a result we couldn't use air mobility to its full effect.

And through it all the American media fed the public a constant line of bullshit. The nature of the war made covering it very difficult. So you had the majority of reporters sitting in bars in Saigon waiting for their next MACV briefing. Few of them got out to cover the war to see what really was going on. And those that did were usually so screwed up on booze and drugs when they were in the field, that they were a liability to everyone they were around.

So I don't have any respect for our political leaders, our American media, or our top military leaders of the time. What I do have great respect for are the soldiers that I fought with. They were some of the finest people I've ever known and if you had any idea of the great courage and sacrifice that they exhibited, you really would be in as much awe of them as I still am.

[Wrong Turn]

Great post above, FP.

If you talk to some of us old vets after a few beers, you would probably be surprised at how critical we are of our political and military leadership before, during and after the war.

I hang out with a few vets, and even a guy who was in LRRPs. Yes, they had a lot of courage.

I agree with you on McNamera, Johnson, and Westmoreland.

[waterdog]

I salute all of you guys that were there and did your job in spite of Cronkite's BS opinion.

I don't look down on the Vietnam Vets, but I definitely don't salute them, or hold them high in my opinion.

They were very ignorant and young.

They sheep that were told to go to Vietnam, and did so.

The Vets didn't study the Vietnamese language, history, nor have strong political or ideological views, and were too young to be considered educated. The average was about 19.

The average DEROS date was after 1 year. Most vets spent the first 6 months learning, and the last 6 months trying to stay alive.

That's not a commitment. That's being a sheep.

The Americans were in Vietnam for their own financial interests, and couldn't care less about the Vietnamese people. Yes, a few individual vets may have cared, but that's the exception, not the rule.

I was there, in Quang Nam Province living in the countryside with the people, and I agree with much of what you wrote. As you said we were ignorant and young. Being in the military we didn't have much choice about where we went and what our assignment was.

The VC took heavy losses during Tet but they were by no means "decimated". We also took heavy losses and the people were in the middle of it all getting shelled, strafed, bombed and napalmed. In fact Tet left the countryside in the hands of the VC. We were still fighting them in August and September and on my second tour in 1969 - 1970. Check this link, http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/star/images/041/0410688004.pdf , a formerly secret CIA report from March 19, 1968 which is a province by province listing of the status in each of them. Part of the summary reads like this:

Although the evidence is still incomplete, the evidence that is now available indicates that the pacification program has received a severe setback in the majority of South Vietnam's 44 provinces as a result of enemy activities since the initiation of the Tet offensive on 30 January. In some areas, many of the gains made by the allies since 1965 were apparently negated. Areas where only a slight to moderate setback occurred appear to be those of least significance from the standpoint of population density and strategic location. It is probable, moreover, that as the gaps in the information are filled, the extent of personnel and material losses will grow.

In the long run, the most damaging aspect of the offensive may well prove to be its adverse impact on popular attitudes toward pacification. Evidence already indicates that the enemy action has greatly increased the apathy and passivity of many rural residents toward government programs and personnel.

And in our province:

The enemy, meanwhile, has been hyperactive in the rural areas of Quang Nam recruiting, propagandizing and maintaining military pressure against the district towns and scattered outposts (that was us). The Viet Cong are alleged to have been recruiting...and each district has been instructed to form a new battalion. Hieu Nhon and Dai Loc Districts have reportedly already done so.

The CIA report gives many more details.

There is also this from a book with the title The Tet Offensive: A Concise History written by James Willbanks.

...Wheeler's (JCS Chairman) report to President Johnson was filled with bad news. On February 27, he told the president, "There is no doubt that the enemy launched a major, powerful nationwide assault. This offensive has by no means run its course." In fact the battle for Khe Sanh was still underway. Wheeler went on to say that the ARVN had suffered huge losses, and "the communists" were largely in control of the countryside. He added that Tet "was a very near thing... We suffered a loss, there can be no doubt about it." Wheeler predicted a renewed Communist offensive and contended that more troops were necessary unless the United States was "prepared to accept some reverses."

[farang prince]

Thanks John and I salute your Sis. Thank God we had skilled and dedicated professionals like her in country...they saved thousands of lives.

I just checked Wikipedia and found out that 5 million Vietnamese died during the " American War ", 4 million civilians, 1 million military and 600, 000 wounded. God knows how many have been affected by the defoliant agent Orange, both Americans and Vietnamese.

Best to keep some sort of perspective going but I'm not taking potshots.

You guys are lucky to be alive and have every right to take a stroll down memory lane. You went as young men and survived a war which most of us have never experienced but secretly would like to. I'm still fascinated by ithe conflict and read up on it whenever something new comes along.

I read Michael Herr's Dispatches and thought it captured what it might have been like. Any truth to that?

The dead and wounded figures aren't correct. There were far more wounded than dead. The problem with trying to quote statistics from the Vietnam War is that the North Vietnamese didn't reveal their numbers of dead or wounded or missing because of propaganda purposes. I wouldn't believe anything they said about their casualties, even to this day. And you are right, Agent Orange continues to kill to this day...both Vietnamese and Americans.

There were a lot of civilian casualties, both North and South. Although much of the combat in the South was in rural areas, the people who lived in small villages and hamlets took a terrible toll when the fighting broke out around them. Part of that was that the VC and NVA dug defensive perimeters around many villages and the VC especially were part of the local populace. It was often hard to tell friend from foe...until the shooting began.

During my first year in RSVN, my unit was involved in a clearing operation in the Bong Son Plains, an area in N.E. S. Vietnam. We would enter a village, check for weapons and for rice caches that were used by the VC and NVA, and then if we didn't find anything, move on to the next village. Three or four weeks later, we might come back to the same ville and this time we'd take heavy sniper and automatic weapons fired from a company of VC or NVA who had built extensive bunker and trench systems all around the village. We would have to suppress that incoming fire with field artillery and air strikes. People living in those villages would be killed or maimed along with the enemy soldiers. That was part of the nature of war in S. Vietnam...the enemy would deliberately mix their troops and munitions among the civilian population and that certainly increased the casualty rate for the civilians.

It was nasty, bloody fighting and few Vietnam vets came home without the scars of war. As I have said before, I rarely go through a night where I'm not back in some rice paddy or jungle fighting some of the same battles, over and over again, in my sleep. I wake up in the morning soaked in sweat.

You asked if I have read "Dispatches" by Michael Herr. Yes, I have. Michael is an excellent writer. He spent most of his time with the Marines in CTZ I. He was rarely with my unit -- the 1st Cav. Michael's description of the American soldier in Vietnam was one of who was a little crazy and quite likely using drugs. That just isn't the case. Drug use was not widespread in the line units in S. Vietnam because you really couldn't be high on drugs or drunk on alcohol and expect to survive a firefight. People who used drugs in my unit were shunned because we knew we couldn't trust them. As Michael wrote in his book, he himself was a heavy drug user and I think this has discolored some of his thinking about the American soldier. Were we a little crazy? Not like some of Michael's soldiers that he wrote about for his magazine articles and books. I can understand why he focused on these types of people...they made better material. But the guys in my units (I was there for two tours with different battalions) were young and loved to have fun when we would be pulled off the line and go back to our base camp. Many guys would blow off steam with the "boom boom" girls, as the Vietnamese prostitutes were called. Others would write home or try to catch up on our sleep (we were always damned tired in Vietnam, both from the stress of combat and the miserable conditions we were in). Some would get drunk. A few might get high. But the stereotype of the American soldier in Vietnam as high and crazy (and perpetuated by Michael Herr and Oliver Stone and other Hollywood types) just isn't true. We were young, scared, and not well-prepared for the type of combat that we had to face in S. Vietnam when we arrived. Those of us who were lucky to leave were much older than our years, thankful that God, Allah, Buddha or the "Great First Sergeant in the Sky" had watched over us for our 365-day tour and sober in our knowledge that much better soldiers than us had gone home in a body bag simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If they are being honest, most Vietnam vets will tell you that their trauma of being in war then extended into the trauma of a nasty homecoming in the USA, where anti-war protesters would scream at us that we were "baby killers" and psychopaths. And people in our hometowns would treat us like we were lepers. I had a girl that I had been dating before I went to RSVN who called me up when she heard I had come home. She asked me out to dinner. And while we were sitting in a nice romantic restaurant, she looked me in the eye and said, "It must have been terrible for you. Did you kill a lot of people?" What a fun dinner date.

The way we were treated when we returned home is one reason why thousands of Vietnam Vets make a point to organize welcome home parades and events for the troops returning home from their tours of duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. We will never forget.

Very well put farang prince. I still have bad dreams about that war and some good dreams about R&R to Bangkok.

Thanks Skip. I wish I had gone on more R&R's to Bangkok. I would have moved here earlier.

[BIZOTIC]

The 40th anniversary of the 68 Tet Offensive will take place on 31 January. How many Thai Visa posters were there? I was with the 1st Cav in the Bong Son at the time. Anyone else in RSVN at the time? Let me know.

Hi..2BN.1st Marines....Con Thien DMZ

[TPI]

Hi all,

a lot of US Army and Marine writers but no OZ...I was in Saigon, Ba queo, and Cholon for all of it...woke up to the choppers going around and around the US embassy...what the hel_l!! Sitting in a truck in Freeworld wondering what to do, big bang from the temple next door?..lots of schrapnel into the car park,lucky?(poor aim)....the Oz army had disarmed ALL Ozy soldiers in the capital(never brought up in later histories?), all that was left were the illegal weapons that nervous nellies (like myself) had aquired over time...Major panic by the "leaders", where are the rifles???? out at Ba Queo? Gasp!! Where are the magazines??? "we left them at the range, like you ordered!"...OK! we were all REMF's but that was only because of posting, in the Oz army you've no choice..Drove out to Ton Son Nhut with 10 others and watched (from the french cemetary) the NVA shoot up the airport troopies...added our little bit then when pressed, ran away into our compound....the resident guard, 6 in all in one firing trench, rifles and M60's pointing out in all directions had everyone in stitches...on the way in dead MP's in two places...place a shambles....no information....eventually most guys went to back up ARVN guys (illegally) in Cholon...Our main problem was how to explain to our "leaders" how the people who were wounded became "wounded"....many lies...back to Ba Queo just in time to get M79's up the gazoonga by the ARVN?? NVA??? eventually the whole place burnt down and many holes in everything that was left, no need to stay...for the last couple of days bodyguard for the Oz ambassador and family until the SAS turned up from Nui Dat....good memories...discovered what it was like to be shot at and didn't like it one bit...the satisfaction of shooting back....10 days of pure adrenalin....22 years of age...never the same again!! Thank God!!

[utapao]

The 40th anniversary of the 68 Tet Offensive will take place on 31 January. How many Thai Visa posters were there? I was with the 1st Cav in the Bong Son at the time. Anyone else in RSVN at the time? Let me know.

I was stationed with the US Air Force at UTapao Royal Thai Airbase (now a commercial and Thai Air Force facility) from August 1967 to August 1968. I was attached to the 635th Combat Support Group, 635th Supply Squadron, Pacific Air Forces. UTapao base personnel supported combat flight operations (B52's, KC135 air refueling tankers, Recon aircraft including a U-2 Spy plane).

[skipvice]

The 40th anniversary of the 68 Tet Offensive will take place on 31 January. How many Thai Visa posters were there? I was with the 1st Cav in the Bong Son at the time. Anyone else in RSVN at the time? Let me know.

I was stationed with the US Air Force at UTapao Royal Thai Airbase (now a commercial and Thai Air Force facility) from August 1967 to August 1968. I was attached to the 635th Combat Support Group, 635th Supply Squadron, Pacific Air Forces. UTapao base personnel supported combat flight operations (B52's, KC135 air refueling tankers, Recon aircraft including a U-2 Spy plane).

I do not think Utapao was in RSVN? Iwas in Ubon in 1967 68 before I was in Phang Rhang RSVN in 68-69, I think the OP was refering to Viet nam. any way you must be an old Air Force vet like me.

Edited January 27, 2008 by skipvice

[adjan jb]

Phang Rang AB, 35th CES 68-69

Actually I thought Tet 68 was a major screw-up on the part of the North Vietnamese. They sacrificed countless Viet Cong cadres in hopeless attacks on heavily fortified base camps and cities and it was the first time the NVA came out in the open in force. They were decimated by our firepower.

"And still the little men keep coming, with their awkward, sauntering gait, the mark of a lifetime of transporting heavy loads on carrying poles."

Bernard B Fall

"In the final analysis the final outcome of the war will be decided by the sustained fighting of the ground forces, by the fighting at close quarters on battlefields, by the political consciousness of the men, by their courage and spirit of sacrifice"

Lin Piao

"a Communist military takeover in South Vietnam is no longer just improbable... it is impossible"

Lyndon Johnson

[klikster]

Long time before Tet .. TDY from 1st SFG (Okinawa) from Oct '64 til April '65 .. A-Team "junior medic"at beautiful Camp Pleime.

Respects and salutes to all the vets out there.

Edited January 28, 2008 by klikster

[klikster]

Westmoreland really was a buffoon.

War of attrition? It was for the Americans, eventually.

The Americans didn't study the language, culture, and history of VN.

I was Army and my 5 years younger brother a Marine class of '68-'69. He's about 6'2" and goes 205 lean. Bro lived in D.C. and I used to go visit occasionally. We were drinking in a kind of Yuppie bar one night and I ran into a real a*hole .. and almost said, "See that big guy over at the bar. He's a really nice guy. Go over and slap him on the back and say 'Hey jarhead, that was a real butt kicking in Khe Sahn, huh. Old Westy, helluva general!'"

But I figured that a certain amount of "escalation" might complicate the remainder of the evening

[klikster]

Now I have a few questions for you.

1. How old are you?

2. Did you ever serve in the military in whatever country you are from?

Fair questions, FP:

I am 38 (Born in 1970.)

No, I didn't ever serve in the military, but respect those that do, and have. I do respect all Vets.

My point in political, not military.

If you actually respected those of us who served, you wouldn't lump us all into such a disrespectfully described category. Please go peddle your shallow thinking elsewhere.

[farang prince]

Thanks for the posts Klikster. Yes, you got the Early Bird Special coming over in 64-65. Hehehe. Your comments about your brother cracked me up. Yes, I can just see what would have happened if someone had come up to him in a bar and said "That was a real butt kicking you had at Khe Sanh." One of the fastest ways for the old 1st Cav guys to get into a fight with a Marine was to remind him that it took the 1st Cav to lift the seige at Khe Sanh. We would be quickly reminded that our help was not needed.

[farang prince]

Hi all,

a lot of US Army and Marine writers but no OZ...I was in Saigon, Ba queo, and Cholon for all of it...woke up to the choppers going around and around the US embassy...what the hel_l!! Sitting in a truck in Freeworld wondering what to do, big bang from the temple next door?..lots of schrapnel into the car park,lucky?(poor aim)....the Oz army had disarmed ALL Ozy soldiers in the capital(never brought up in later histories?), all that was left were the illegal weapons that nervous nellies (like myself) had aquired over time...Major panic by the "leaders", where are the rifles???? out at Ba Queo? Gasp!! Where are the magazines??? "we left them at the range, like you ordered!"...OK! we were all REMF's but that was only because of posting, in the Oz army you've no choice..Drove out to Ton Son Nhut with 10 others and watched (from the french cemetary) the NVA shoot up the airport troopies...added our little bit then when pressed, ran away into our compound....the resident guard, 6 in all in one firing trench, rifles and M60's pointing out in all directions had everyone in stitches...on the way in dead MP's in two places...place a shambles....no information....eventually most guys went to back up ARVN guys (illegally) in Cholon...Our main problem was how to explain to our "leaders" how the people who were wounded became "wounded"....many lies...back to Ba Queo just in time to get M79's up the gazoonga by the ARVN?? NVA??? eventually the whole place burnt down and many holes in everything that was left, no need to stay...for the last couple of days bodyguard for the Oz ambassador and family until the SAS turned up from Nui Dat....good memories...discovered what it was like to be shot at and didn't like it one bit...the satisfaction of shooting back....10 days of pure adrenalin....22 years of age...never the same again!! Thank God!!

Hi TPI. Thanks for your Oz perspective. You are right, during Tet 68 there was no such thing as the front lines and a lot of REMFs found themselves fighting for their lives. That's a funny story about all the weapons being stored in the lockers at Ba Queo and the magazines left at the range. I'm sure a Sergeant Major had a major piece of his ass chewed out after that fiasco.

[farang prince]

The 40th anniversary of the 68 Tet Offensive will take place on 31 January. How many Thai Visa posters were there? I was with the 1st Cav in the Bong Son at the time. Anyone else in RSVN at the time? Let me know.

Hi..2BN.1st Marines....Con Thien DMZ

Welcome BIZOTIC. You definitely got close to the wire didn't you? Had a good buddy who was a corpsman in the 1st Marines. Only survivor of an ambush that wiped out his platoon. He managed to play dead to survive. That was mid-67 as I recall. Eddie Gallegos was his name. Great guy.