Queery In Thai Electrical 2 Pin Plug System

[ttl]

CAN ANYONE ADVISE THE POSITION. COMING FROM NEW ZEALAND ALL ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES AND POWER TOOLS ARE FITTED WITH A THREE PIN PLUG. THE THIRD PIN BEING THE EARTHING TERMINAL

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH CONNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN

[PhilHarries]

Yes your appliances will work but they will no be earthed therefore if there is a fault there is a risk of an electric shock/electrocution. Even Thai buildings with a three pin electrical system can still be dangerous due to faulty earth installation.

[citizen33]

Yes your appliances will work but they will no be earthed therefore if there is a fault there is a risk of an electric shock/electrocution. Even Thai buildings with a three pin electrical system can still be dangerous due to faulty earth installation.

This is correct. Some things to add are as follows. Many modern western appliances are double insulated so that there is no possibility of contact between live electrical components and the body of the appliance (many plastic items for example). In that case appliances often have no ground wire supplied anyway and there is no problem. If there is a ground wire, and particularly with metal body appliances, there may be some risk. It is quite common in Thailand to get small shocks off computers and washing machines, and if there were a real fault (short to earth) this could be dangerous. The solution, if you are in your own house, is to get an earth rod fitted into the system. There may already be one for the shower, which could be connected to other points. A final annoying problem is that even when the house does have 3-pin earthed sockets and you have 3-pin plugs on appliances there may be a mis-match between the socket (US-style female socket earth) and plug (European-style female plug earth). You can replace the plug or buy an adapter (just a pin) from Central Department Store. Alternatively you can make your own pin to fit into the female plug hole (perhaps not the best way though). A residual circuit device (RCD, RCCB etc - a special circuit breaker that operates more quickly than the normal one) will give you some protection even with no earth, though there has been some controversy on this point in previous threads on this topic.

Edited January 23, 2008 by citizen33

[sweetchariot]

I bought all my gear over from the UK, and it works fine. The only thing I got shocks from are the locally purchases computers, and even monitors. Does an earthing rod literally mean a rod in the ground, with wires from the appliances going to it. For me that sounds very impractical as I would have wires trailing all over the place.

The most useful thing that I brought with me was half a dozen English 4-gang adapters, which are at convenient points throughout the house. Saves the hassle of changing all the plugs, or messing about with adapters for each appliance, and when visitors from the UK come to stay they can easily charge their phone, use the hairdryer etc.

[citizen33]

I bought all my gear over from the UK, and it works fine. The only thing I got shocks from are the locally purchases computers, and even monitors. Does an earthing rod literally mean a rod in the ground, with wires from the appliances going to it. For me that sounds very impractical as I would have wires trailing all over the place.

The most useful thing that I brought with me was half a dozen English 4-gang adapters, which are at convenient points throughout the house. Saves the hassle of changing all the plugs, or messing about with adapters for each appliance, and when visitors from the UK come to stay they can easily charge their phone, use the hairdryer etc.

My UK computer was giving shocks off the case and this isn't uncommon! An earth rod is a copper rod (longer ones are better - say 8 feet) with a clamp attached, driven into the ground. This is not so impractical because the connecting earth wire is normally taken to the consumer unit ('fuse box') and then distributed to various circuits along with the positive and negative supply using three core cable (in the UK twin core + E). This is similar to what happens in the UK. If the house wasn't originally wired with 3-core, you do have to try to run an additional earth wire to some sockets. A lot of Thai houses will just earth the electric shower. Your adapters can be used as you describe but don't greatly aid safety. The fuses won't save you from electrocution. Most of the previous threads (of which there are several on this topic) come to the conclusion that an earth rod and an RCD is the answer. The Aussies tend to like negative earth bonding, but some think this can be problematic when you have all too many Thai work men who will disconnect the mains supply and reverse the polarity when they replace it.

[rockyysdt]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH CONNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN

Electrical lighting and appliances require two wires to function.

An Active (or positive) wire.

A Neutral (or negative) wire.

The Earth wire serves only as a back up should a fault occur.

Many appliances are double insulated.

This means they can usually be safely operated without the need for an earth.

For all other electrical lighting and appliances, if there is high resistance or fault with your neutral (or negative) wire, the Earth wire may take over the duty of carrying the current to ground.

In these situations if there is no Earth wire, a person coming in contact can become the conductor.

210 volts of current could then travel along your body to ground, possibly causing your heart to beat 60,000 times per minute instead of the usual 70 beats per minute resulting in heart failure.

The Earth wire will only function if there is a fault.

Many buildings are not correctly earthed.

The presence of an earth wire at the power point is no guarantee that it is wired all the way to ground.

Also, many home handy men often fit fancy light fittings in place of plastic single globe fittings without earthing them.

Faulty wiring (which is so easy to do) can lead to electrocution when simply changing a globe, even if the light switch is off.

If you're not sure, wear rubber gloves and rubber soled shoes when using appliances, keep your hands and feet dry, and make sure your metal ladder has plastic caps at its base.

Edited January 25, 2008 by rockyysdt

[tomo22]

The Thai electrical system is pretty bad. Putting earth rods into the ground is very easy.

However as there are long periods with no rain in Thailand it is advisable to put in three or four. These should be a minumum of 1 meter apart, then they can be connected together with heavy gauge cable and run to your consumer unit. Yes and if you can aford it ensure you have rcd's.

For showers and the like ELCB's Check that your neutral is neutral and not live at every outlet as Thai Electricians! very often cross them over. Dont use the cheap extension leads you can buy anywhere buy cable and make your own with a maximum of Two apliances per Lead.

Heavy gauge cable is essential to ensure that fault currents flow down the earth.

[egg6447]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH CONNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN

Electrical lighting and appliances require two wires to function.

An Active (or positive) wire.

A Neutral (or negative) wire.

The Earth wire serves only as a back up should a fault occur.

Many appliances are double insulated.

This means they can usually be safely operated without the need for an earth.

For all other electrical lighting and appliances, if there is high resistance or fault with your neutral (or negative) wire, the Earth wire may take over the duty of carrying the current to ground.

In these situations if there is no Earth wire, a person coming in contact can become the conductor.

210 volts of current could then travel along your body to ground, possibly causing your heart to beat 60,000 times per minute instead of the usual 70 beats per minute resulting in heart failure.

The Earth wire will only function if there is a fault.

Many buildings are not correctly earthed.

The presence of an earth wire at the power point is no guarantee that it is wired all the way to ground.

Also, many home handy men often fit fancy light fittings in place of plastic single globe fittings without earthing them.

Faulty wiring (which is so easy to do) can lead to electrocution when simply changing a globe, even if the light switch is off.

If you're not sure, wear rubber gloves and rubber soled shoes when using appliances, keep your hands and feet dry, and make sure your metal ladder has plastic caps at its base.

:)as an electrical engineer, i understand what your trying to say . sadly and dangerously, i dont think you do

[egg6447]

The Thai electrical system is pretty bad. Putting earth rods into the ground is very easy.

However as there are long periods with no rain in Thailand it is advisable to put in three or four. These should be a minumum of 1 meter apart, then they can be connected together with heavy gauge cable and run to your consumer unit. Yes and if you can aford it ensure you have rcd's.

For showers and the like ELCB's Check that your neutral is neutral and not live at every outlet as Thai Electricians! very often cross them over. Dont use the cheap extension leads you can buy anywhere buy cable and make your own with a maximum of Two apliances per Lead.

Heavy gauge cable is essential to ensure that fault currents flow down the earth.

as an electrical engineer, i understand what your trying to say . sadly and dangerously, i dont think you do

[egg6447]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH conNNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN <<<yes they will work. yes there is a risk of electricution .. advise, seek a bonafide electrician. obviously from this thread we have a couple of jack the lads who may know what they,re talking about but certainly dont understand what they,re talking about.. you only live once, take care out there.

[citizen33]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH conNNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN <<<yes they will work. yes there is a risk of electricution .. advise, seek a bonafide electrician. obviously from this thread we have a couple of jack the lads who may know what they,re talking about but certainly dont understand what they,re talking about.. you only live once, take care out there.

I would feel more sympathetic to interventions of this kind if they contained some tangible information, rather than just a claim to expertise. While the content may have been expressed imprecisely, and there may be a bit of confusion about the relative usefulness of RCDs and ELCBs, I can't see that Tomo22 actually suggested doing much that is dangerous. Certainly the advice to check that cables are of adequate rating and that neutral and positive haven't been reversed is not controversial. Are you saying that use of multiple earthing points is bad practice? If you are an 'engineer', you clearly never went through higher education given the standard of your English. Moreover, if you have any experience of rural Thailand you will appreciate that putting your blind faith in a local electrician may be a bad move. But perhaps you are practicing trade protectionism rather than giving useful information that would enable expats to assess the quality of work done.

Edited February 24, 2008 by citizen33

[tomo22]

The Thai electrical system is pretty bad. Putting earth rods into the ground is very easy.

However as there are long periods with no rain in Thailand it is advisable to put in three or four. These should be a minumum of 1 meter apart, then they can be connected together with heavy gauge cable and run to your consumer unit. Yes and if you can aford it ensure you have rcd's.

For showers and the like ELCB's Check that your neutral is neutral and not live at every outlet as Thai Electricians! very often cross them over. Dont use the cheap extension leads you can buy anywhere buy cable and make your own with a maximum of Two apliances per Lead.

Heavy gauge cable is essential to ensure that fault currents flow down the earth.

as an electrical engineer, i understand what your trying to say . sadly and dangerously, i dont think you do

Sadly and dangerously I am a member of the Instute of electrical Engineers.

I am an HV authorised person over several major sites.

Please explain

One Your Qualifications and two what is wrong with my statements so I can correct and not mislead anyone.

Easy to criticise not so easy to state a simple solution.

[colino]

just a quick question on my brother inlaws laptop power lead it has the two straight blades and an upper round one so it do not fit in a normal thai plug hole , i have been told that you can snip off the round bit , anybody no if thats true please ???

[citizen33]

just a quick question on my brother inlaws laptop power lead it has the two straight blades and an upper round one so it do not fit in a normal thai plug hole , i have been told that you can snip off the round bit , anybody no if thats true please ???

I would guess this is a US-style plug. Most modern laptops only have the positive and negative wires connected. You can probably see whether this is the case by examining the plug and socket connecting the mains lead to the power supply. If it is just twin core flex you could in theory cut off the plug's earth pin, but that seems a messy solution. Why not either buy (a) a 3-pin to 2-pin mains adapter (b ) a cheap extension cable with 3-pin sockets or (c ) a Thai mains lead that will plug into your power supply? Some UK-style 3-pin plugs on laptops can be unclipped to reveal a 2 pin plug inserted inside (for traveling). If there is an earth wire, read this thread and make up your own mind if not connecting it is a good idea.

Edited February 24, 2008 by citizen33

[Rinrada]

The Thai electrical system is pretty bad. Putting earth rods into the ground is very easy.

However as there are long periods with no rain in Thailand it is advisable to put in three or four. These should be a minumum of 1 meter apart, then they can be connected together with heavy gauge cable and run to your consumer unit. Yes and if you can aford it ensure you have rcd's.

For showers and the like ELCB's Check that your neutral is neutral and not live at every outlet as Thai Electricians! very often cross them over. Dont use the cheap extension leads you can buy anywhere buy cable and make your own with a maximum of Two apliances per Lead.

Heavy gauge cable is essential to ensure that fault currents flow down the earth.

as an electrical engineer, i understand what your trying to say . sadly and dangerously, i dont think you do

Sadly and dangerously I am a member of the Instute of electrical Engineers.

I am an HV authorised person over several major sites.

Please explain

One Your Qualifications and two what is wrong with my statements so I can correct and not mislead anyone.

Easy to criticise not so easy to state a simple solution.

Now called the IET......with lots of good advice....

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wiring-re...tions/index.cfm

We are also now in the process of adapting/upgrading to the new 17th Edition wiring Regs (Blighty /EU ...and the civilised world) so lots of reading ahead.......good advice on line......L1 L2 L3 ...no more Phases.....

Incid...Yes... I am also a Member.....

[tomo22]

just a quick question on my brother inlaws laptop power lead it has the two straight blades and an upper round one so it do not fit in a normal thai plug hole , i have been told that you can snip off the round bit , anybody no if thats true please ???

I would guess this is a US-style plug. Most modern laptops only have the positive and negative wires connected. You can probably see whether this is the case by examining the plug and socket connecting the mains lead to the power supply. If it is just twin core flex you could in theory cut off the plug's earth pin, but that seems a messy solution. Why not either buy (a) a 3-pin to 2-pin mains adapter (b ) a cheap extension cable with 3-pin sockets or (c ) a Thai mains lead that will plug into your power supply? Some UK-style 3-pin plugs on laptops can be unclipped to reveal a 2 pin plug inserted inside (for traveling). If there is an earth wire, read this thread and make up your own mind if not connecting it is a good idea.

Very good and straight forward reply well done.

As for earthing. Can anyone here tell me where they can buy the required equipment to do all the required tests to ensure your earth is good enough. No you cant. I have brought them here from the UK and have done so many tests on my newly built home you would not belive.

This thread is to help people who are worried.

I have two house here one in a village which was built with a normal thai two wire system and this house that was built buy a very reputable company.

The earths and the electrical supply are not considered important. Look at even your top hotels.

Stop worrying about earths so much for normal things you bring from the western world. If the appliance needs an earth as you have properly stated it will be wired.

Worry more in thailand about electrical storms bad supplys than your earth that is what will catch you out.

Yes my house was built by a reputable well standing company then after checking two socket outlets less than a meter apart, were supplyed by different phases. Buy the way suposedly one of the best electrical installation companys in thailand was used.

Electricity here for computers buy a good quality UPS so far TV Bang, Oven Bang, High fii Bang, and my Computer. Electrical storms and brown outs. Now have very good Ups with generator supplys everything.

Generator runs one or two times a month on average.

Sorry if the Grammer is not good and spelling but have not got the time to correct.

My beef and Yorshire Pudding with lovely roast potates Colliflowe Mange Tout and baby sweat corn.

Yes amazed once they taste the Thais love it. Although some always want some chili sauce.

[Crossy]

Good to see other members of the IET here, I've not found anyone who voted FOR the change from IEE but someone must have

IMHO a major mistake nobody out here has heard of the IET. I put both sets of post-nominals on my business cards, not really allowed by the institution but saves lots of explanation.

Meanwhile have a look here http://www.crossy.co.uk/wiring/ constructive criticism welcomed and if anyone fancies maintaining the site, let me know, too darn busy right now

[Crossy]

EDIT crappy connection, double post removed

Edited February 25, 2008 by Crossy

[citizen33]

EDIT crappy connection, double post removed

What a nice practical website! It is really useful and satisfies a need for people to have good basic information to check Thai workmanship.

Edited February 25, 2008 by citizen33

[tomo22]

Lovely little site good job.

[Messmann]

"I would guess this is a US-style plug"... !

Here you can find all the informations:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/ele...ity.htm#voltage

Hope you can find the answers...

[citizen33]

"I would guess this is a US-style plug"... !

Here you can find all the informations:

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/ele...ity.htm#voltage

Hope you can find the answers...

Or better still on Crossy's site (link above) you will find a photo of this plug plus the adapter that I mentioned. It is really all there!

[egg6447]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH conNNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN <<<yes they will work. yes there is a risk of electricution .. advise, seek a bonafide electrician. obviously from this thread we have a couple of jack the lads who may know what they,re talking about but certainly dont understand what they,re talking about.. you only live once, take care out there.

I would feel more sympathetic to interventions of this kind if they contained some tangible information, rather than just a claim to expertise. While the content may have been expressed imprecisely, and there may be a bit of confusion about the relative usefulness of RCDs and ELCBs, I can't see that Tomo22 actually suggested doing much that is dangerous. Certainly the advice to check that cables are of adequate rating and that neutral and positive haven't been reversed is not controversial. Are you saying that use of multiple earthing points is bad practice? If you are an 'engineer', you clearly never went through higher education given the standard of your English. Moreover, if you have any experience of rural Thailand you will appreciate that putting your blind faith in a local electrician may be a bad move. But perhaps you are practicing trade protectionism rather than giving useful information that would enable expats to assess the quality of work done.

what do you regard as multiple earthing pionts??. what is pos/neg. what is english exactly

[egg6447]

Helo Jack see you are still doing your same thing stop slaging of people and if you have corrections to what they have said state them. Then you might be doing a worth while contribution to this thread

i read my reply to the op. it was answered piont by piont and corectly. no frills no b/s regarding my knowledge or trade speak.

[egg6447]

Yes my house was built by a reputable well standing company then after checking two socket outlets less than a meter apart, were supplyed by different phases. Buy the way suposedly one of the best electrical installation companys in thailand was used.

wow , unbelievable, two phases in two sockets. that would not be easy in the same house. as you mention all your equipment blew up, one, have you sorted the problem, what was it?. and two at a guess from here have you got a phase and neutral supply or two phase supply. my guess would be they gave you a two phase supply and that sure would give your equipmrnt probs.

[Gimbo]

Just want to advice that at least in my village, the electricity is distributed in a 2 phase delta configuration. That means that both wires in your socket is live. No +/- no neutral.

So do not assume that there will even be a neutral and a live wire.

Also if you have only 2 pronged outlets in your house, it is good advice to only use double insulated aplliances. This is easy to check. Just look for this symbol on your appliance:

[mikethevigoman]

CAN ANYONE ADVISE THE POSITION. COMING FROM NEW ZEALAND ALL ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES AND POWER TOOLS ARE FITTED WITH A THREE PIN PLUG. THE THIRD PIN BEING THE EARTHING TERMINAL

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH CONNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN

How did he get in there ?

[citizen33]

I REALISE I CAN GET AN ADAPTOR PLUG, AND TAP ONTO THE TOP OF IT. HOWEVER WITH NO EARTH conNNECTION WILL MY APPLIANCES WORK.MAYBE THEY WILL. BUT IS THERE ANY RISK OF ELECRICUTION. ANY ADVICE PLEASE VINCE ALLAN <<<yes they will work. yes there is a risk of electricution .. advise, seek a bonafide electrician. obviously from this thread we have a couple of jack the lads who may know what they,re talking about but certainly dont understand what they,re talking about.. you only live once, take care out there.

what do you regard as multiple earthing pionts??. what is pos/neg. what is english exactly

I meant the use of several ground rods connected to a shared earth cable in one house, which Tomo22 recommended but I believe the Aussies do not like. It was the only thing in his post that I could see that you could possibly construe as dangerous, or did you spot something else?

On 'positive and negative' .. well of course I meant to say 'positive' (i.e. phase) and 'neutral', but as with most of your (non-)sentences my language use let me down. The relevant point of course is that saying that people should check for reversed wires is hardly a reason for criticism. Looking at what else I wrote I see that I mentioned 'residual circuit device' when I meant 'residual current device'. At least I was trying to help rather than hinder, and it seems to me that several of the posts on this thread have done that.

Edited February 26, 2008 by citizen33

[momomiaooo]

Hello there!

I find all your query and the following comments very valuable since I am about to travel as a tourist to Thailand but I AM A WOMAN and not even British!!! therefore despite all my efforts to make sense of the technical explanation given...basically...

IS IT SAFE TO USE MY PERSONAL APPLIANCES THERE? (phone charger, hair dryer..)

Thank you guys for helping

Mx

[Crossy]

Yes my house was built by a reputable well standing company then after checking two socket outlets less than a meter apart, were supplyed by different phases. Buy the way suposedly one of the best electrical installation companys in thailand was used.

wow , unbelievable, two phases in two sockets. that would not be easy in the same house. as you mention all your equipment blew up, one, have you sorted the problem, what was it?. and two at a guess from here have you got a phase and neutral supply or two phase supply. my guess would be they gave you a two phase supply and that sure would give your equipmrnt probs.

Fun eh? The apartment I'm in here in Bangalore (India) has triple outlets, each outlet is on a different phase!! Bloody lethal