Don't Blindly Trust Doctors

[deejah]

a little bit off topic but pertains to this thread as well as others

i have seen more than one post

where complex ideas are being communicated to Thais

in English

and i am thinking 'yeah right, that is really going to go over well'

reminds me of the posts where farang are so adamant about getting it their way and will not budge with Thais

'yeah right'

in your dreams

i also think to myself

i dont know how you guys pull it off

i guess i have a lot to learn

perhaps become fluent in thai and still struggle with their way of doing things

i do however wish you the best of good fortune

[Tammi]

a little bit off topic but pertains to this thread as well as others

i have seen more than one post

where complex ideas are being communicated to Thais

in English

and i am thinking 'yeah right, that is really going to go over well'

reminds me of the posts where farang are so adamant about getting it their way and will not budge with Thais

'yeah right'

in your dreams

i also think to myself

i dont know how you guys pull it off

i guess i have a lot to learn

perhaps become fluent in thai and still struggle with their way of doing things

i do however wish you the best of good fortune

I am not understanding what you are saying.

However, please be assured that the best doctors in Thailand have all been educated in a western country and all speak excellent English.

And, believe me, there are times one has to be adamant with Thais (or any other nationality) so as not to be steam rollered. One has to stick up for oneself when the occasion requires.

[Sheryl]

Re the prescription issue, I have been told by doctors in Bumrungrad that they are required to presecribe from their pharmacy and not provide a script. Doc who told me this then wrote a prescriotion for just a few doses to satisfy the Brass and the person I had brought to see him then bought the rest at an outside pharmacy.

So it's not always the doctors, sometimes it's the businessmen they work for.

However, there is a patient bill of rights in Thailand and you have the right to know exactly what has been prescribed for you and also to refuse to purchase it at the hospital pharmacy counter. To avoid unnecessary hassle, can just ask to see what it is then say you don't need it as you already have a supply.

[Neeranam]

However, there is a patient bill of rights in Thailand and you have the right to know exactly what has been prescribed for you and also to refuse to purchase it at the hospital pharmacy counter. To avoid unnecessary hassle, can just ask to see what it is then say you don't need it as you already have a supply.

I bet that wasn't seen on Bamrungrad's noticeboard!

[Neeranam]

Would you trust a doctor in The UK who refused to speak to you in English because your skin was not white?

I find it very strange when they refuse to speak Thai - what's all that about?

[distortedlink]

Just because something has a gold plated cover, doesn't mean it's any good.

My wife's philosophy regarding medical care is that the posher the building and the more expensive the treatment, must mean a better diagnosis and superior treatment. I have learned different.

Check out my experience with Doctors when I caught Dengue fever recently and nearly died.

I am a long term resident of Chiang Mai living here for 4 years.

On a day in mid December last year I woke up feeling very ill with a flu like symptom, sore throat, headache, severe fatigue and muscle aches. I put it down to the changing weather as it became very cold here in Chiang Mai. So I went back to bed, took flu medication and waited to get better.

By the end of December I wasn't getting any better and since first feeling ill, I had completely lost my appetite and was losing a tremendous amount of weight.

On 27 December I took myself to the McCormack's hospital in Chiang Mai for a check up. After completing several tests, (no blood test), the Doctor informed me that I was suffering from acute indigestion and was prescribed anti biotics and indigestion medicine at a cost of nearly 2000 baht. I was not happy with the hospital`s diagnosies because indigestion couldn't explain why my body was aching so much and the weakness to a point that at times I was almost losing consciousness. I took the prescribed medication, but my condition was worsening and got to a stage where I could no longer get out of bed.

2 January this year, suffering from feeling extremely chilled, muscle pain, severe headache, fever, intense joint pain, dizziness, rashes all over my body and total loss of appetite, a friend took me in his car to the emergency section of the government hospital in San Pa Tong.

The doctor took my blood pressure, temperature and a blood sample. Within half an hour at the hospital the Doctor confirmed that I have Dengue fever and that I am very ill. It was explained to me that I had probably been bitten by the striped variety of the dengue virus-carrying mosquito. I was immediately admitted into the hospital, told that there is no vaccines or cures for this disease and can only be observed to see if I begin haemorrhaging or not as haemorrhaging is a possibility with dengue fever. There is no specific treatment for dengue except for supportive therapy of fluid and electrolyte balance, prevention and treatment of shock and treatment of coagulation disorders.

While in the hospital I was interviewed by a chief government investigating environmental officer who suggested that I had been travelling outside of Chiang Mai and picked up the virus from somewhere outside of Chiang Mai. I explained that I had not been outside of Chiang Mai and mostly at home for the last month. I lately confirmed this to environmental officers by catching a stripped mosquito in my bedroom.

After 4 days, luckily I did not haemorrhage and was given the option of either going home to recover or stay in hospital. I opted to go home, but with regular visits to San Pa Tong hospital to monitor my progress. In the meantime to my displeasure, although I knew it had to be done, government environmental officers came inside my home and surrounding areas and fumigated the whole district with mosquito killing chemicals. The smell was obnoxious and I was concerned for my dogs and fishpond stocks, but told I must endure this by law.

None of us was affected by the chemical sprays and today (18 January) I am still far from well, but my health is improving and over the danger fatal period of Dengue fever. Still struggling to take food and the aching bones sometimes is extreme. Hopefully get better soon and not have to endure much more of this horrible disease.

Being a computer junkie I often get mosquito bitten on my legs and ankles where my legs rest under the computer table, it being dark and dusty, a great place for mossies to congregate.

I believe that I am very vulnerable to these tropical viruses because unlike the local Thai people in my village, I have never been exposed to such dangers coming from England and have not yet formed any immunity to these bugs.

Must admit that I used to think these bad things only happen to the other fella and that this could never happen to me. These days I take health care much more seriously, although not getting fanatical, will in future be more aware and have a medical check up at least once a year.

Edited January 27, 2008 by distortedlink

[PeaceBlondie]

Both of my super-specialists at Samitivej spoke fluent American English, having done multiple residencies there. Neither could begin to diagnose my infection. The guy in Chiang Mai who did a long residency in Michigan cured the infection by surgically removing it, including lots of diseased muscle and bone tissue that was being destroyed. I wasted many months in central Thailand getting the 'best advice in (central) Thailand.'

[Bagwan]

I have been seeing the same doctor in Pattaya for seven years so we know each other pretty well. He has been left with no doubt that he is not responsible for my body and its wellbeing. I am. He acknowledges that I come to see him for advice and his recommendations for any possible treatments and not to take orders. He also acknowledges the terms 'doctors practice' and 'consultation' are in common use for good reasons.

In the early days of our association he suggested that he give me a private prescription which I could then take to a local pharmacy. The first time that this occurred he offered that by so doing I would save unnecessary expense. I was savvy enough to ask if he had any financial interest in the pharmacy and he admitted that he and a doctor at another hospital jointly owned it. TIT.

[Thai-Aust]

I was ripped off for 70,000 baht. I've also heard so many more cases of money being more important that care.

That's not fair. In every country (even in your own) you can not fully trust doctors or any hospital. My experience told me that Thai doctors are more trustworthy and caring than Australian ones. At least the fees you pay for the services are a lot less than in the US, England, Australia, and anywhere else.

With the 70,000 baht you paid for your daughter, you didn't mention what it was for. If it was for complicated birth delivery, I'm sure you had a good deal. You can't even pay that kind of money for a normal birth delivery in Australia!

[esprit]

Sleep clinic ? Come on wake up

[robint]

quote

I think that should read "Don't trust doctors" it's not about being Thai.

unquote

Very wise IMHO

I wont bore you with my experiences with UK doctors, but suffice to say that I managed to medicate a chronic complaint only after talking to an old buddy in bkk who'd had exactly the same problem. I was right as rain in2 weeks after years of pain. I saw my uk quack and told him of my cure

hrmmp he said and didnt like alternative medicines

I said its standard treatment in the US

Im glad to say, thanks to the internet that its perfectly possible to reasearch any medical problem and any prescribed medicines. The info is often reasonably intelligible to the layman and extrememly helpful

I would advise anyone to check their complaint on the web, whether in Uk or out here

Sadly, doctors out here are often very poorly trained. Any diagnosis must be suspect. Always check what medication they prescribe and look for side effects (they never tell you this)

Also, do not pay any clinic until you have adequate information on what drugs are called (so you can look it up) Clinics hate disclosing info cos they know you can buy the stuff 1/10th the price. Be persistent, dont take no for an answer, or refuse to pay.

If you can find a trained pharmacist, they are often quite knowlegdeable

Beware of the so called quacks who claim to have been trained in the US. Often, they only go over for a 6 month course on some lucritive speciality such as hip replacement procedure

that doesnt make them a good general doctor

check and double check everything

[Bagwan]

Im glad to say, thanks to the internet that its perfectly possible to reasearch any medical problem and any prescribed medicines. The info is often reasonably intelligible to the layman and extrememly helpful

I would advise anyone to check their complaint on the web, whether in Uk or out here

Sadly, doctors out here are often very poorly trained. Any diagnosis must be suspect. Always check what medication they prescribe and look for side effects (they never tell you this)

Also, do not pay any clinic until you have adequate information on what drugs are called (so you can look it up) Clinics hate disclosing info cos they know you can buy the stuff 1/10th the price. Be persistent, dont take no for an answer, or refuse to pay.

If you can find a trained pharmacist, they are often quite knowlegdeable

Beware of the so called quacks who claim to have been trained in the US. Often, they only go over for a 6 month course on some lucritive speciality such as hip replacement procedure

that doesnt make them a good general doctor

check and double check everything

I totally agree. One doctor was so far off beam with his diagnosis that I told him that he needed to consult a proctologist. He looked puzzled. You need a brain transplant I told him. I refused to pay his bill.

With patronage and cronyism so rampant what worries me is the ethical standards of professors and other professional examiners. Wouldn't they also be under pressure to pass students so that their learning centres have good records and reputations? What young hopeful would enlist at a centre of learning where the percentage of succesful students was low? And what of the ethics of those doctors who oversubscribe as a matter of routine?

I think that there is a lot to be said for asking the doctor what treatment he/she recommends and then replying that you will think about it. Then Google lots of sites before making an informed decision as to following the proferred advice.

In case anybody thinks i am paranoid, I am OK with UK qualified doctors. Here in LOS I consider it safer to think of myself as a customer, not a patient. The thought that I'm paying the piper so I'll call the tune is never far away.

[thaigene2]

Re the prescription issue, I have been told by doctors in Bumrungrad that they are required to presecribe from their pharmacy and not provide a script. Doc who told me this then wrote a prescriotion for just a few doses to satisfy the Brass and the person I had brought to see him then bought the rest at an outside pharmacy.

So it's not always the doctors, sometimes it's the businessmen they work for.

However, there is a patient bill of rights in Thailand and you have the right to know exactly what has been prescribed for you and also to refuse to purchase it at the hospital pharmacy counter. To avoid unnecessary hassle, can just ask to see what it is then say you don't need it as you already have a supply.

Yes this was what I was saying above - thanks for the confirmation. These private hopsitals know 'most' patients will simply submit the invoice to their insurance company who will pay the bill. So the client pays zero-to-25% of the bill - so they reckon no one will kick up a stink. It's pure biz. But the Doctors who would pump you full of antibiotics you don;t need, at inflated prices, would - in some countries face disciplinary procedures. And the Hospitals who fueled the greed by giving commissions on the over-priced RX's to the Doctors who wrote the unnessecary and often unworkable 'scrip' would be closed and their owners JAILED and quite rightly indeed.

But not here cause TIT.

[cafes]

I developed a heart condition years back is los the thai cardiologist at Bangkok hospital said there is no cure you gotta take the medication I am prescribing for the rest of your life. An operation is not recommended although you can opt for it. Basically I did some internet searching and decided that I was not going to live my life on cpotentially dangerous medicines. I travellen abroad and got the operation done. I have been cured never had a problem again. oh and before I went I had to do check for blood clots in the heart. The result "blood clots". I went abroad and the doctors said "no blood clots" you're ready to go under the knife....

11 years ago I was told that I had an apendix at Ramkamheang hospital. Turned out to be minor cramps. I got suspicious and went to a government hospital. There I was told I had only stomach cramps.

Another doctor here is los told me that green tea contained more caffeine than black tea. Did some searching on the internet and found out that is is the opposite..

Also the problem is they never give you constrcutive advice. After they examine you they immediately start writing that prescription. You only get edvice after insisting. Otherwise yo're left in the dark.

Do I trust Thai doctors? some people do; I certainly don't. Especially the ones working for private hospitals.

Edited February 5, 2008 by cafes

[Prakanong]

I give higher regard to Pharmacists over Doctors. It seems Doctors do not have the time to keep up to date with advances in medical science.

Peter

Depends on the Dr when it comes to keeping up - the guy's in my office seem to keep up well enough but they do have great access etc - this is not always avaiable to a GP say - but for someone at a large hospital like Bumrungrad it should not be a problem.

Then of course elsewhere it might be a language problem - most journals are in English

A pharmacist knows about the drug's actions on the body but is not a clinician. A professional Pharmacist would never claim to be or to treat anyone and would always give way to the clinician unless its an emergency

[Prakanong]

Re the prescription issue, I have been told by doctors in Bumrungrad that they are required to presecribe from their pharmacy and not provide a script. Doc who told me this then wrote a prescriotion for just a few doses to satisfy the Brass and the person I had brought to see him then bought the rest at an outside pharmacy.

So it's not always the doctors, sometimes it's the businessmen they work for.

However, there is a patient bill of rights in Thailand and you have the right to know exactly what has been prescribed for you and also to refuse to purchase it at the hospital pharmacy counter. To avoid unnecessary hassle, can just ask to see what it is then say you don't need it as you already have a supply.

I think I can confirm that from my experience. I needed quite a strong antibiotic which was very expensive at Bumrungrad. I told the Dr I work for the company that makes it and could get it for free or close to. He said he had to write a script for at least some but i had to promise I would get the rest and keep compliant as that was most important.

[thaigene2]

Think that settles it then. I don't think there's much doubt left about the 'incentives' to write scripts in private hospitals - Why doesn't Newsweek and CNN write about this?

This would shut down hospitals in the West and jail their owners..