The New Colonizers

[astor]

From Pattaya mail current issue http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml

A new Lotus branch will be open in Pattaya . Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals. For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers, wich rightly fears about theirs future.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express . So that employers will became employees.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

[suegha]

Interesting post astor. However, there stores suceed because people use them and they do, on the whole, provide a complete service under one roof. So while I agree it's a shame to see small stores suffer, you can't stop 'progress'!

Shame really.

[sbk]

Well, you are welcome to come to my island which only has small local shops and the prices of many things (like vegetables for instance) are double those of the mainland. I am sure the shopkeepers here would welcome your support

[micksterbs]

Plus, a lot of small shops go there to buy their stuff; they have wholesale accounts. You mean you've never seen them with a family member to each trolleyfull?

[samran]

understand the sentiment, but I beleive they are misguided. If the multi-national is offering better service for customers at competitive prices, then it is up to the local shop keepers to improve their product and service, or wither on the vine.

In anycase, I don't quite believe the 'either-or' argument. It isn't a zero sum game. The local shop keepers service a different market - last minute small purchases, while the superstores cater to people doing the weekly shop. Just like me, I'll go to Carefore/Tesco Lotus for my weekly shop, but nick up the street to get my milk or nam plaa (at a higher price!!!) if I run out. Both of them get my money, and the mom-and pop place gets no less/more than they would have done had there not been a multi-national.

[howtoescape]

I noticed a few of the small Tesco express stores popping up around Bangkok, they had to do this in the UK as the local authorities were clamping down on the big superstores the other year, now these kind of "small local Tescos/Sainsbury's etc.." are everywhere, i am sure it will be the same in Thailand in the years to come.

Thing i hate about these huge Superstore ie Carefour, Big C, Tesco is that they are all so sterile and bastardised with the awful franchise food stores in the complex, like a more sterile version of the UK and American equivilants.

However I do use them all in the UK.

"The public gets what the public wants."

[yorkman]

In anycase, I don't quite believe the 'either-or' argument. It isn't a zero sum game. The local shop keepers service a different market - last minute small purchases, while the superstores cater to people doing the weekly shop. Just like me, I'll go to Carefore/Tesco Lotus for my weekly shop, but nick up the street to get my milk or nam plaa (at a higher price!!!) if I run out. Both of them get my money, and the mom-and pop place gets no less/more than they would have done had there not been a multi-national.

These are not superstores Samran, these are Express stores, essentially upscale versions of 7/11s. Usually carrying milk and fresh food just like the local shops.

I agree with your sentiment though, the locals have to up the ante to compete.

[samran]

In anycase, I don't quite believe the 'either-or' argument. It isn't a zero sum game. The local shop keepers service a different market - last minute small purchases, while the superstores cater to people doing the weekly shop. Just like me, I'll go to Carefore/Tesco Lotus for my weekly shop, but nick up the street to get my milk or nam plaa (at a higher price!!!) if I run out. Both of them get my money, and the mom-and pop place gets no less/more than they would have done had there not been a multi-national.

These are not superstores Samran, these are Express stores, essentially upscale versions of 7/11s. Usually carrying milk and fresh food just like the local shops.

I agree with your sentiment though, the locals have to up the ante to compete.

sorry, miss read it!

But, my thoughts don't change. An airconned 'express' store witha good variety of product at a reasonable price, whether it be tesco express or an upgraded MaPa express, will always get my business if the alternative is a dusty overpriced open air store.

[suiging]

The head boy at City Hall summed it up nicely when he told protesting small shop keepers, that if they stopped ripping off non-Thais, he would have some sympathy with them.

[samran]

The head boy at City Hall summed it up nicely when he told protesting small shop keepers, that if they stopped ripping off non-Thais, he would have some sympathy with them.

little doubt at all that the head boy at city all got an all expenses paid trip to the UK to 'see' how the concept works there (in between visiting harrods "express") but I still love his sentiment. Study tours are a wonderful thing.

[sgunn65]

In the UK Tesco gets 11p in every pound spent in retail. That is ALL retail not just supermarkets.

I love going to the market in my area and haver never felt I have been ripped off but when I am in other areas I do sometimes feel that I have paid too much, but since I have not worked hard enough on my language skills I can't argue the toss.

And you can get all the imported foods like french bread, salted butter, linguine and cheese!!! Whats a boy to do.

I try to balance my shopping and only use the supies for stuff I can't get in the market.

[wpcoe]

For the benefit of those who have not yet read the online or print versions of the current Pattaya Mail article quoted in the OP, I'll quote a few excerpts:

Tesco Lotus had carried out its own research, which showed that the majority of people in Pattaya were in favor of the store. Local retailers, however, had vehemently opposed the results, and Pattaya’s mayor had suggested a second public hearing be undertaken.

The results of that second hearing have revealed that the majority of residents are in favor of Tesco Lotus Express.

Representatives of the Rungruang Community, which is in the same construction area as Tesco Lotus Express, said that the general point of view amongst residents is that local retailers and foreign retailers have their own customers, and that the two groups of customers are not the same.

There were 228 people at this second public hearing. Of these, 156 people voted for Tesco Lotus Express and 69 people were against. Two people abstained and there was one spoiled paper (invalid ballot).

Should the city officials cater to the minority, when 68% of those present were in favor of the new market?

[GuestHouse]

We need only look at what the Major Supermarkets have done to UK highstreets to see where Thailand is going.

And I would argue not just the damage to the highstreets but to the diet and health of the nation too.

Prepacked refined and high fat/sugar foods - great for supermarket profits at the cost of customer health.

And yes I've heard the argument, 'people make their own choices' - indeed, but the supermarkets spend a great deal of money and effort ensuring that some very clever marketing tricks tell the customers exactly what it is 'their choice' should be.

Edited January 26, 2008 by GuestHouse

[TEFLMike]

Tesco in the UK are now in the firing line for a massive fine. Asda has just been fined millions , (if I remember correctly it was about £24Million), for price-fixing milk at 15 pence a ltre more than it should have been charging. All supermarkets. They stated that the 15 pence a litre was going to the farmers, and clearely, it was not.

Tesco is also in the middle of a Government study as to saturating the market as regards to monopoly, effectlively closing down independents.

Maybe this is a good reminder of what people are re-naming Tesco as >

[astor]

Interesting post astor. However, there stores suceed because people use them and they do, on the whole, provide a complete service under one roof. So while I agree it's a shame to see small stores suffer, you can't stop 'progress'!

Shame really.

This is not progress , but is subjugate the entire world and the peoples to the logic of the indiscriminate capitalism.

Is progress create milions of unemployes?

Is progress to get into debt million people.

Is progress create poverty instead of wealth?

Is progress flatten the world for the benefit of a few privileged people?

And I could still continue.

This is what that the multinationals are doing,

[JSixpack]

Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals.

Nope, the will of the people. At the public meeting, more than twice as many voted "for"! Funny how you ignore that.

For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers

I be not on their side, because they not be on my side with their arrogance, poor service, small selection, need to bargain, ripping off everyone if possible but especially farangs.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express .

Very doubtful, because they are too mean and arrogant. However, their offspring might. The new Lotus will bring more money into the area and generally help the economy around there.

So that employers will became employees.

And so? Are they owed their status in perpetuity at the expense of the consumers? But they can buy shares in the company and become owners along with countless others. Then they can hope Lotus does well and perhaps end up with more in retirement than they would have from the miserable little shop.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will always be whenever possible. Much greater variety of products, much better service and quality, prices almost always fair and reasonable, determined by competition in the market. I'm looking forward to the new Central Festival. Wish Frye's, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and El Ranchero Mexican--among many others--would come in!

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

Most Lotus employees appreciate their jobs, and many shareholders not particularly rich. Me, I can't afford to give away money, but glad you're lucky enough to be in such an enviable position.

[Thai at Heart]

From Pattaya mail current issue http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml

A new Lotus branch will be open in Pattaya . Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals. For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers, wich rightly fears about theirs future.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express . So that employers will became employees.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

The little mom and pop shops are not in competition with hyper markets. They are being slowly eaten alive by Seven 11, which if you look is a wholy owned franchise of CP group. Of course Tesco being a multinational is a far easier target. This is more about who controls retailing, than benefits to or detrmients against the local market.

Of course the benefits for the mom and pop shops of being to source their products from Tesco is never mentioned, the price reductions that it brings are never reported. The break in the monopoly wholesalers is underplayed.

[xyborg]

Better service in many cases especially with Tesco's refund policy easier to complain, fresh stock , how many 1year old packets of anything have you found in some of these small corner shops, down side is they will dominate the market then dictate to their suppliers at what price they will buy from them, in 50 years there will be just 2 companies running the world, then what?? I also like the small shops unusual range ie stuff you will never see at Tesco's. In general Thai shop owners need a good kicking to improve all round, will they get the message?????? doubt it!!

[samran]

Interesting post astor. However, there stores suceed because people use them and they do, on the whole, provide a complete service under one roof. So while I agree it's a shame to see small stores suffer, you can't stop 'progress'!

Shame really.

This is not progress , but is subjugate the entire world and the peoples to the logic of the indiscriminate capitalism.

Is progress create milions of unemployes?

Is progress to get into debt million people.

Is progress create poverty instead of wealth?

Is progress flatten the world for the benefit of a few privileged people?

And I could still continue.

This is what that the multinationals are doing,

I'll tell you what, you subsidise me the difference between the price charged at Mom-&-Pop and the lower price at the Tesco express and I'll be partial to your argument. If you then also offer to run around to get for me what I can't get at Mom-&-Pop but can get at Tesco express (for the same price of course), I'll be the first to lead a protest down walking street in Pattaya in support of your cause.

[garro]

Many Thais would be delighted to have a Tesco mini-mart where we live.

In our area there are two family owned shops which haven't got that great a selection.

The nearest 7eleven is over 42KM away and the nearest Tescos is over 100KM away.

I recently returned from Ireland with my family and my wife was very impressed with the selection of products available there.

I personally hate to see small shops destroyed by these multinationals.

I also worry about the nutritional value of their products and business practices of these companies.

On the other hand, a paternalistic attitude by westerners is bound to irritate.

It is up to the people of Thailand to decide if they want these multinationals to take over.

It is not up to Farangs to decide that they prefer Thailand without them.

Edited January 27, 2008 by garro

[GuestHouse]

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express .

Very doubtful, because they are too mean and arrogant. However, their offspring might. The new Lotus will bring more money into the area and generally help the economy around there.

That's a rather blinkered way of looking at the reality of Thai Ecconomics.

Thailand is unique insomuchas Thai people enjoy an extremely high level of private property and business ownership across a wider spectrum of society than is found in most countries - High levels of Land, Home and Business ownership give rise to many of the characteristics of Thai society that we associate with Thai life and culture.

Mom and Pop's store might not be as 'ecconomically efficient' as a major international mega-store, but neither is it syphoning off profits off shore (and onshore into a very restricted number of pockets).

The micro ecconomy of home run businesses, provided livable incomes to vast numbers of people in Thailand is efficient in that very sense of providing meals on plates, school fees paid and roofs over heads.

Lotus and the other big players may put thousands of products under one roof, but market stalls, local shops and local micro-trade puts roofs over the heads of hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

On the other hand, a paternalistic attitude by westerners is bound to irritate.

It is up to the people of Thailand to decide if they want these multinationals to take over.

It is not up to Farangs to decide that they prefer Thailand without them.

Well of course it would be nice if the people in Thailand had a) the information provided for them to be able to decide what they actually want in their community and The means to actually have that debate.

When Lotus-Tesco offer the short term benefits of a few more jobs and cheaper prices it is clear that people will take that as a good thing.

Meanwhile the arrival of superstores in an area unbalances the local market and closes local business – Businesses that benefit the people at a grass roots level.

And we haven’t even considered the environmental impact of building mega stores in totally unsuitable locations, jamming up traffic and unbalancing what little town planning there is.

paternalistic attitude

– I take it that your own view that you know what is best for Thais (ie that they do not listen to the broader debate is not parternalistic)

[yorkman]

Lotus and the other big players may put thousands of products under one roof, but market stalls, local shops and local micro-trade puts roofs over the heads of hundreds of thousands of people in Thailand.

This is actually a bit more invidious than that GH.

The big supermarkets and the local shops and markets seem to be able to co-exist, although undoubtedly a lot of potential trade is taken away.

What is proposed here is the (Tesco) Lotus Express concept. Upmarket versions of 7/11's really, but competing directly on the soi with family run shops.

If experience elsewhere is anything to go by, what follows is that they undercut the local shops, the local shops disappear, and then prices are ramped up again. Everybody loses apart from the giant corporations.

[garro]

GH said,

"I take it that your own view that you know what is best for Thais (ie that they do not listen to the broader debate is not parternalistic"

It is due to the fact that I don't claim to know what is best for the Thais that I try and avoid being paternalistic.

There are enough westerners here, and abroad, already who think they know what is best for Thailand.

[GuestHouse]

It is due to the fact that I don't claim to know what is best for the Thais that I try and avoid being paternalistic.

There are enough westerners here, and abroad, already who think they know what is best for Thailand.

I suspect many have Thai families, Thai children and perhaps Thai children - In which case parternalistic care might not be a bad thing. Their views and importantly their own experience would then seem to be pretty valuable and indeed valid.

But far beit from me to tell, or even suggest, that anyone's views are not welcome.

Edited January 27, 2008 by GuestHouse

[garro]

My point is GH, that many westerners have chosen to move away from the mass materialism which is so rampant in the west.

Ironically it was likely due to this rampant materialism that many were able to move to Thailand in the first place.

It is due to this fact, that I feel, a westeners opinion might not be very welcome in a Thai's eyes.

Sort of like those who praise the nobility of being a peasant, yet never wanted for anything themselves while growing up.

Many Thais have not had the opportunity to turn their back on mass materialism as they haven't had it yet.

Saying that they shouldn't have it because I decided it no longer suited me would be paternalistic in my eyes.

That is just my opinion.

You can of course feel free to disagree.

[Gary A]

The people in Muang Loei have succeeded in blocking Tesco Lotus after they had the building finished and the signs up for the other connected small stores. I would still buy meat and vegetables from the local fresh market, BUT, it's a pain to drive 150 kilometers to buy anything farang like even a cake of butter or a bottle of olive oil. It's easy for you guys who have super stores available to want to support the little mom and pop stores. Try to shop in those little stores for 100 percent of everything you regularly use.

[Galong]

This is not progress , but is subjugate the entire world and the peoples to the logic of the indiscriminate capitalism.

Is progress create milions of unemployes?

Is progress to get into debt million people.

Is progress create poverty instead of wealth?

Is progress flatten the world for the benefit of a few privileged people?

And I could still continue.

This is what that the multinationals are doing,

Yes, continue Brave Sir Listmaster. Tell us why these evil multinational super stores are full of Thais. It seems like the locals like the concept. Can't they spend their money wherever they wish?

Who are the privileged few you refer to? The privileged 'many' shop at Tesco and although I don't disagree totally with your desire to NOT have Thailand be like everywhere in the West, it seems like the Thais (many at least) do.

Mom and Pop need to get off their duffs and check out concepts like cleanliness, customer service, convenience, etc... wake up mom and pop... stop complaining and start working. Work pays off. Sitting around complaining that life isn't fair will accomplish nothing.

If YOU don't like Tesco, do go there. I'm not wild about it, but it beats running all over town to get one item here and another item there and another item even further away.

And I could still continue [stepping off of soapbox]

[Ulysses G.]

Before these shops arrived in Thailand, the mom and pop places were dusty with crummy out of date merchandise which they often didn't replace when it sold out. I HATED shopping back then. No wonder the Thais love 7/11.

Viva La modernization!

[Eric1949]

From Pattaya mail current issue http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml

A new Lotus branch will be open in Pattaya . Despite the right complains by the local shopkeepers the local autorities have bent to the arrogance of these multinationals. For my part I be on the side of these small shopkeepers, wich rightly fears about theirs future.

Maybe some of them will be hired by Lotus express . So that employers will became employees.

I will never be a customer of these voraciuos multinationals. They will never have a cent from me.

I will give my money to the poor people at work and not at these billionaires.

Progress is progress. How did you get to Thailand, by pack horse or did you fly?

Do you have a car/pickup or motorcycle, thus doing a cobbler out of his trade.

Tesco employees pay tax on their salaries, unlike most small shop owners.

Tesco supports many local charities, something I've never seen a local shop doing.

Wake up, this is the 21st century.

Do you have a mobile phone?

Do you have electricity?

Oh, I see, somethings modern are OK.