Yes! Its Raining. No, Its Not Raining.

[Priceless]

Nikster probably just meant to say March instead of April.. On the graph March looks like Mount Everest.

You may very well be right and March of last year was undisputably awful. It is just that my point over several posts has been that a number of posters have been giving an impression that all or a large part of last year was rather unbearable, while in fact the high pollution levels occurred mostly during the month of March. Of the totally 30 days with a PM<10 concentration >120 microgrammes per cubic metre, 23 occurred during March and only one (1) during April.

I'm all in favor of doing everything possible to clean up the Chiang Mai air (and water and so on) but I am also a firm believer in basing actions on facts, not subjective impressions. Swain said in his post above: "Graphs ... I don't need no stinking graphs, We were there and we felt it, breathed, and washed it off our skin. VERY VERY... etc.. you know my rant!!". I am sorry, but to me that sounds very much like: "Facts ... I don't need no stinking facts, ...", which is an attitude I could NEVER make my own! (BTW, I was here all through the month of March last year.)

/ Priceless

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Nikster probably just meant to say March instead of April.. On the graph March looks like Mount Everest.

You may very well be right and March of last year was undisputably awful. It is just that my point over several posts has been that a number of posters have been giving an impression that all or a large part of last year was rather unbearable, while in fact the high pollution levels occurred mostly during the month of March. Of the totally 30 days with a PM<10 concentration >120 microgrammes per cubic metre, 23 occurred during March and only one (1) during April.

I'm all in favor of doing everything possible to clean up the Chiang Mai air (and water and so on) but I am also a firm believer in basing actions on facts, not subjective impressions. Swain said in his post above: "Graphs ... I don't need no stinking graphs, We were there and we felt it, breathed, and washed it off our skin. VERY VERY... etc.. you know my rant!!". I am sorry, but to me that sounds very much like: "Facts ... I don't need no stinking facts, ...", which is an attitude I could NEVER make my own! (BTW, I was here all through the month of March last year.)

/ Priceless

Yeah I agree most of the year is pretty good with the rains and winds of the cold season. Only about 30 days last year were what the Govt would term dangerous to health. That's what? about 8% of the year? Doesn't sound so bad...Priceless you might want to take the safety thresholds of another country like the USA and then see how many days would be termed unhealtfull as opposed to dangerous and I would guess its a significantly higher percentage of the year. In the states for example you have levels of danger and not just a "dandy" and terrible levels. So anyway 8% of the last year CM was dangerous but how many more days were moderately unhealthy etc?

The caveat though is that CM only monitors in 2 locations and does not even measure the most dangerous of particles which are the < 2.5 microns. Yes its only recently that studies have strongly indicated <2.5 pm are causing Arteriosclerosis.

I wonder if its possible to extrapolate the presence of <2.5 micron particles to the observed presence of <10 micron levels? Adding the <2.5 micron levels then I would suspect the dangerous percentage of the year would be more statistically significant.

Anybody have any sources to make such an educated extrapolation?

Also would be interesting if some of the other air pollution components were measured in CM.. Currently these are not.

Benzene

Toulene

heavy metals like lead and cadmium

dioxin (from diesel fumes)

poly-aromatic hydrocarbons

This is a good source of pollution issues and has some case studies for European health affects.

www.eoearth.org/article/Impact_of_local_air_pollution

[Priceless]

Nikster probably just meant to say March instead of April.. On the graph March looks like Mount Everest.

You may very well be right and March of last year was undisputably awful. It is just that my point over several posts has been that a number of posters have been giving an impression that all or a large part of last year was rather unbearable, while in fact the high pollution levels occurred mostly during the month of March. Of the totally 30 days with a PM<10 concentration >120 microgrammes per cubic metre, 23 occurred during March and only one (1) during April.

I'm all in favor of doing everything possible to clean up the Chiang Mai air (and water and so on) but I am also a firm believer in basing actions on facts, not subjective impressions. Swain said in his post above: "Graphs ... I don't need no stinking graphs, We were there and we felt it, breathed, and washed it off our skin. VERY VERY... etc.. you know my rant!!". I am sorry, but to me that sounds very much like: "Facts ... I don't need no stinking facts, ...", which is an attitude I could NEVER make my own! (BTW, I was here all through the month of March last year.)

/ Priceless

Yeah I agree most of the year is pretty good with the rains and winds of the cold season. Only about 30 days last year were what the Govt would term dangerous to health. That's what? about 8% of the year? Doesn't sound so bad...Priceless you might want to take the safety thresholds of another country like the USA and then see how many days would be termed unhealtfull as opposed to dangerous and I would guess its a significantly higher percentage of the year. In the states for example you have levels of danger and not just a "dandy" and terrible levels. So anyway 8% of the last year CM was dangerous but how many more days were moderately unhealthy etc?

The caveat though is that CM only monitors in 2 locations and does not even measure the most dangerous of particles which are the < 2.5 microns. Yes its only recently that studies have strongly indicated <2.5 pm are causing Arteriosclerosis.

I wonder if its possible to extrapolate the presence of <2.5 micron particles to the observed presence of <10 micron levels? Adding the <2.5 micron levels then I would suspect the dangerous percentage of the year would be more statistically significant.

Anybody have any sources to make such an educated extrapolation?

Also would be interesting if some of the other air pollution components were measured in CM.. Currently these are not.

Benzene

Toulene

heavy metals like lead and cadmium

dioxin (from diesel fumes)

poly-aromatic hydrocarbons

This is a good source of pollution issues and has some case studies for European health affects.

www.eoearth.org/article/Impact_of_local_air_pollution

Yes, I agree fully with you that it would be a good thing if other pollutants were measured as well. There does however seem to be a certain agreement that particles (PM<10 and PM<2.5) are the most directly dangerous ones, so let's be grateful that PM<10 at least is measured.

As for PM<2.5, it is worth noting that even the European Union does not (yet) have a standard for that pollution. We are living in a developing country, so I'm afraid that we will have to wait a while before PM<2.5 and some of the other pollutants you mention are measured and even longer before any action is taken.

Let us also note that there are other dangers: If Thailand had he same number of traffic deaths in relation to the population that e.g. Sweden does, about 3,000 people per year would be killed. In fact, some 14,000 - 15,000 people are killed in the Thai traffic every year. Now, there's a cause for a crusader! I think that we are once again looking at the lack of enforcement of existing legislation as a major obstacle to positive development, just as with air and water pollution.

In other words, I think we are facing an endemic problem in Thai society, which unfortunately precludes any hope of quick fixes. Please don't misinterpret me, I am not preaching defeatism, if anyone can come up with realistic and effective ideas about how we (the expat community) can help in some way, they deserve all the support we can give.

/ Priceless

[swain]

Nikster probably just meant to say March instead of April.. On the graph March looks like Mount Everest.

You may very well be right and March of last year was undisputably awful. It is just that my point over several posts has been that a number of posters have been giving an impression that all or a large part of last year was rather unbearable, while in fact the high pollution levels occurred mostly during the month of March. Of the totally 30 days with a PM<10 concentration >120 microgrammes per cubic metre, 23 occurred during March and only one (1) during April.

I'm all in favor of doing everything possible to clean up the Chiang Mai air (and water and so on) but I am also a firm believer in basing actions on facts, not subjective impressions. Swain said in his post above: "Graphs ... I don't need no stinking graphs, We were there and we felt it, breathed, and washed it off our skin. VERY VERY... etc.. you know my rant!!". I am sorry, but to me that sounds very much like: "Facts ... I don't need no stinking facts, ...", which is an attitude I could NEVER make my own! (BTW, I was here all through the month of March last year.)

/ Priceless

hmmm facts I don't need no stinking facts does have a good ring to it.. but no .. facts are great and as CobraSnakeNecktie mentioned we only have some of the facts in this graph. My experience differs from you in how long it was unpleasant. Your graph shows more when it was down right unhealthy. For me pleasant is one of the reasons I live here, when it dips into the unpleasant range I am motivated to want to correct the problem. I did this where I lived in the USA and the desire is still with me now that I live in Chiang Mai.

When a tourist comes to Chiang Mai.. I am guessing they would be interested in not only when it was down right unhealthy but also when it was unpleasant. Unpleasant is subjective and everyone has an opinion and mine is that it was very unpleasant a great deal longer than it was down right unhealthy.

Edited February 1, 2008 by swain

[Donnyboy]

I dug my new vegetable garden bed and have been tilling the soil for a few days as it settles - meanwhile my seeds are planted in seeds pots and now we have the rains. Perfect timing.

CB

until you see this guy CB

[swain]

Raining out in Hang Dong .. for about 20 minutes solid and then sprinkles.... are we in for more?

[Ulysses G.]

None near Thapae Gate.

My girlfriends don't like getting wet!

UPDATE

It is lightly sprinkling now at Thapae Gate.

UPDATE II

Was pouring for 5 minutes. Now sprinkling again.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[realthaideal]

We're getting it good in Nong Hoy right now. Glad I stayed in. Will go meet firends out in the City when it let's up. But this is real rain. Amazing! You can see a good green blip over the South part of the CM here http://www2.tmd.go.th/radar/cmi120.php , and also note that they've been predicting - though I only put one satang's stock in it - that it'd rain on Weds at this site http://www.tmd.go.th/en/province.php?id=2

[Donnyboy]

absolutely teaming down right now in the night bazaar, this has caught them by surprise, a hive of activity, ppl putting up plastic sheets

[Maejo Man]

Nary a drop over Maejo Manor Often the way...Can be chucking it down in the city, and dry out here. Pity as my garden could do with some.

[Nienke]

For 5 minutes pouring at my place, now dry and pretty cold! 19 dregees Celcius

[tigerbeer]

nothing in san kampheng !

[Mapguy]

From Chiangmai Mail Vol. VII No.8 19 February 2008

New 24 hour emergency freecall number issued as burning continues

City authorities aware of need for public participation

Saksit Meesubkwang and Staff Reporter

As a further move in the attempts being made by the Chiang Mai Provincial Office of Natural Resources and the Environment, a new emergency call centre number has been announced. It is hoped that the new free call number – 1362 – will facilitate the reporting of burning of any kind within the city and its environs. City authorities are now making the air pollution problem an urgent agenda, and appreciate the need for public participation in its control.

Chiang Mai City’s specific problem is its geographical location on a flat plain surrounded by mountains. An inversion layer forms, preventing smoke, dust from dry earth, and fumes from escaping into the upper atmosphere, resulting in smog-like conditions and extremely poor air quality. Pollution levels are higher than, for example, USA-set safe levels, seriously affecting residents of the city who already suffer from respiratory illnesses and causing their numbers to increase. International publicity of this annually occurring problem also causes visitor numbers to drop, severely affecting the local economy. In 2007, the number of tourists visiting the city fell by 25%, and nearly 10,000 rai of forest were destroyed by fire.

The traditional “slash and burn” method of clearing and fertilising land, still employed by the majority in spite of new regulations and increased penalties, together with the burning of rubbish, including plastics and other materials which give off toxic fumes, combine, particularly during the hot season, to form a cocktail of polluted air which hangs above the city itself, unable to be dispersed. Should major forest fires or other conflagrations occur in the countries bordering Thailand, as happened in 2007 on the Burmese border, pollution levels soar still higher. So far, in 2008, there have been no such occurrences; as a result, city pollution levels are lower then in 2007. However, local burning still seems to be continuing, largely unreported and unchecked.

Plans for future solutions to the problem, to be inaugurated between 2008 and 2011, include preparations for local administration authorities to be able to buy plant debris from growers, farmers and villagers. This will be able to be processed into fertiliser and distributed back to its suppliers for use on their fields, thus obviating the need for burning. To aid in the control of forest fires, the National Parks Department has been able to lease channel time on a USA satellite which overflies the Northern area of Thailand, in order to swiftly identify and deal with outbreaks of fire. In the case of areas of forest already devastated by fires, replacement trees will be planted and supervised by the Forest Department to ensure their growth. 24 hour emergency call centres will be set up in each province and its districts, to enable residents to report fires as they occur.

[adjan jb]

5:10 PM It's raining in Saraphi.

[Crow Boy]

has come over very dark and cooled down near Hang Dong. No rain but it is looking promising.

CB

[adjan jb]

has come over very dark and cooled down near Hang Dong. No rain but it is looking promising.

CB

It lasted only 10 minutes

I hoped that it would rain cats and frogs

The garden is still thirsty.

I'm enjoying a cold one under the porch and don't feel like watering the whole place (260 sq wa)

[adjan jb]

8:30. It's raining now in Saraphi.

[Rasseru]

8:30. It's raining now in Saraphi.

Time to break out the champagne!

[adjan jb]

8:30. It's raining now in Saraphi.

Time to break out the champagne!

It didn't rain long enough to break out the champagne. A californian sparkling wine will do

[Maejo Man]

Fair piddling down over Maejo Manor as I write 21.50hrs

[Crow Boy]

Nice soft rain starting at 9:30pm last night near Hang Dong

CB

[Ulysses G.]

Same in town town Chiang Mai. Maybe a little later.

[Rasseru]

Solid rain now, at Nakhonping Bridge, still falling heavily after more than five minutes. That'll clear the air. That's not an invitation, by the way, to merge this thread with any others.

[elektrified]

Absolutely pouring rain on Huay Kaew Road at 7:05. Was raining so hard it woke me up! Hope it will clean up the air a little. Quality has been very poor the last two days.

[princealbert]

Yep the rain woke me 30 mins ago here in San Sai.

No need to be watering the garden this morning i guess

[Ulysses G.]

The rain woke me about 5 AM today and is pouring again at 8 AM!

[BigSnake]

Sunshine blue skies. Yes the rain will help clear the Air around Chaing Mai, Enjoy. Hope you all get just enough to do good and not cause flooding.

[Ulysses G.]

Apparently we are on the verge of a drought, so this could kill a few birds with one stone: put out fires, clean the air, cool the climate, fill the resevoirs!

[Nienke]

Absolutely fabulous this rain!

Had a solid deep sleep, woke up with the sound of drops thundering on my roof, lovely cool weather, and full with spirit to enjoy another wonderful day. YOOHOO!!!!!

[db1tau]

They told the rain this morning was induced by cloud seeding?

Good job anyway, I hope they get more chances to do that.