My blood runs cold

[dilbert]

From my last episode... Farangman and Thai-babe went to Sakon Ukon to show my sincerity of the prospective marriage and negotiate a dowry with the mother of my girlfriend. In front of all the relatives the mother asked me..."How much you pay" and as I looked around I was speechless as to the mannor of how the question was presented to me. I did plan to talk money with the mother but couldn't like that. The reason I wanted to talk money was to make sure there would be an understanding they would not expect money from me as they pleased in the future. I got money, money is not a problem and I don't care about how much I pay but what I am worried about is a wound that will never heal. The mother said the amount is up to me but asked how much I will pay. I wouldn't name a price and my girlfriend was caught between them and I and she started crying.

Later at home my girlfriend called her mother and told her we may be going to the USA soon and her mother laid some kind of guilt trip on her saying how she gave her life and did everything for her and now she wants money. But the only money my girlfriend has is what I give her because she has no job. My girlfriend called her sister who told her the mother is not being fair and the sister called the mother and told her to lay off. Her brother even called and said he wanted a thousand baht saying his mother won't share the food she gets from the money "I" give to my girlfriend for "her" to give to her mother. When I reminded my girlfriend if she has enough money to give to her brother (who could [in theory] get a *&%$-ing job) she got mad at me.

In conclusion, her mother may be a sweet lady who gave her last tit to feed my girlfriend but she is so heartless to come down on my girlfriend when she is really trying to get to me!

I am thinking of going to her mother with an interpretter telling her what I think of her and warning her if she ever does anything like that again she will never forget what she lost. As it is I am paying 4000 baht a month for her.

What I need to deal with now is the reality I still may marry this girl and have a child with her and then in a few years the mother may try to beg money from our child or resent our child knowing it is living a better life.

(I hate one-way streets)

[Mr Helper]

If I were you I would completley forget about the idea of going to the mother with interpriter, and saying what you think, coz if u do that, the whole family/village will turn on you, and you could very well end up with a knife in your back, and being buried and forgotten about!!! If you are going to take this route, I would take some 'farang' bodyguards, who will be armed!!! And Im not joking either!

    Don't even bad mouth the mother to another member of the family, no matter how much wrong she has done, Thai ppl regard their mother/father like gods!

   OK also I hope you NEVER give the brother ANY money at all. It will be spent down the local booze shop. Or on a  gambling  spree. It seems like the whole family are deciding to go into early retirement, and you will be footing the bill.

  OK also I hope you are sending the mother NO money, if you are sending her 4000bhat a month, you are mad, and are just being used. 1000 baht will feed 40 people in issarn!!! So....1000 baht will feed mother for 3 weeks, and that is if she eats out@restraunts everyday. If she cooks@home, 1000 baht will be more than enough money for one month. So I suggest you cut your payment by 3000 baht. Because when your money arrives it will just be given round all of the family, so really you are supporting the whole crew.

   Unfortunatley the village/issarn Thais are very lazy, and if they can get out of work, they will. And the daughter will be used to get this from gullible farangs, i.e. YOU.

  I left you a message on the other post page, I suggest you read it. DON'T let them take the piss out of you my friend!

  No matter how much money YOU have yourself, it's YOURS and not THEIRS!!!

  ciao

[James]

Dilbert

To start, I agree 100% with Mr. Helper. I couldn't put explain it any better than he did. I think you should run for the hills. The fact that she confronted you with the dowry question that way, shows she is from the lowest class or very disrespectful, unless she is a funny person and was trying to shock you for humour sake. Which, I hightly doubt.

Again, you never mentioned if your fiance was a bargirl or married before, in which case her family should not get anything from you.

About the confrontation thing with the mother. NO NO NO! Never confront her in anyway, or you likely will suffer a fatal mistake. Im not kidding,  this could result in a hit on your life, or some other type of revenge. Life is cheap in Thailand. You can have someone eliminated for next to nothing. And, in this case it would likely be by family or neighbors even. Amongst the really poor and low class this is more so true. Any middle or upper class thai would not likely get rid of you unless it was for some serious money usually relating to business. This almost never happens. But for a poor village person to get pissed and take some revenge out on you it is nothing.

I think its time to have a reality check. Even if your fiance claims her love to you, do you really think she is going to leave her family behind for good. That will never happen. Her family is the center of her life, no matter what she says. Eventually every thai person returns to the family unit. Family is much more closely knit and unified than in northern american culture, anglo culture. This doesnt imply the family is a healthy relationship, it just means they are more dependent on each other.  Eventually something will go wrong or a fight will occur between you and the fiance. Where do you think she will run to? You have no support system if something goes wrong like in any healthy marriage. So when she needs to get away , etc.  She will have a family telling her to leave you, steal from you, etc.

Now, what is really keeping you from meeting a nice thai girl? I dont care if you are not a heartthrob, surely you can do better than this. Ok, maybe you might have to choose a girl a little closer to your age,  but still younger . And, maybe it takes time, maybe even 6 months, etc., or whatever time to get to know a nice girl. But, bottomline its possible.  Dont be another farang who falls for the little brown isarn girls. There are a million stories about it going bad. No joke! It so predicatable, and sad to see that. And, you sound like a nice man, who deserves better. I could understand if you were some rude and crass jerk who's life revolves around bargirls. But you dont sound like that type of loser. I think you should re evaluate the situation.   Just dont take any sh*t from that girls sh*t hole family.  Trust me, they sound like bad news. Best of luck!!

[cbatson]

I will add only this...  in a relationship with a Thai, you will never get away from the money issue.  In Thai culture, it is the new generation's responsibility to support the existing family.  As such, your mother-in-law is sure to continue to beg for money for the rest of your life.  You should expect this as a fact of life should you marry.  Even if you give in to her mother's begging, if you do not give as much and as regularly as your perceived wealth would seem able to afford (and remember you're a foreigner which automatically means you're rich), then you will be seen as stingy.  Remember that in many Asian cultures, marriage is as much a business/political/status transaction as anything else.

Chuck

[D80]

The dowery system, historically, was there for the marrying daughter and not the family.  In the past, Thai women are not really allowed to work and once they  have been married, their social status tends to decline (even referred to as 'second hand goods' by some chauvinistic bastards).  Therefore the parents asked for dowery so that the money can be given to the daughter later on in case anything goes wrong.  In the past, the recommended amount was only 40 baths.  If parents asked for more, it was seen as 'selling' their own daughter and is a shameful thing to do.  (I got this info from a thai website called weddingsquare-unfortunately it's written in Thai)  Obviously, things have changed since then.  The system itself is not with out its own merit if used correctly considering Thai women status in Thai culture these days.  The problem is, more people abuse it especially when a farang is involved.

These days, the money has become a sort of status symbol.  Even Thai men face these sort of problems as well.  It could be worse if the girl's family is poor...  [This was never a problem with me as the parents are very independent and did not ask for anything whatsoever (not even a dowery or any 'supporting money' afterward).]  I find that families from the lower classes tend to have more problems with the dowery issue (no offence to your gf's family).

Best thing to do is to talk to your girlfriend seriously.  Also, are you sure her family does not have an issue with her marrying a farang?  Some family do have such racist view and will try everything to destroy your relationship.  This could be one of the trick (I've seen it before).  If you think the problem is best solved by paying, set the amount and never ever budge.  Or just give the gf the allowance and she can sort it out herself.  If the whole thing is not worth it (and you are the only one who knows whether it is or not) then forget the relationship & start anew, mate.  This is not a problem that will go away.  It definitely depends on what kinds of family & people you are dealing with.  There are plenty of people in Thailand with more self respect than this old hag!

Good luck!